OK, here's the deal.

Jaime and I have three cats, and our three cats have what I can only expect to be thousands of fleas at this point.

Recognizing there was a problem, we ordered a one year supply of Bayer Advantage, which is supposedly a miracle-insecticide.

Well, Bayer is manufactured in both the US and around the world. Not to knock other countries, but according to all of the research I have done one should only use the US version (because of EPA regulations).

So, I ordered this from a website called Entirely Pets. Their website clearly states "We ship only genuine, FDA-approved US products."

Well, I get the shipment today and it was made in Germany. There are stickers all over it that say "Made in Germany." According to my research, this is an obvious sign of a foreign-made product (go figure).

Also interesting is that I purchased Bayer Advantage for cats 9 pounds and up. The product I received is labeled "Do not use this product on cats weighing less than 4kg". That's right-- KG. I purchased the product for cats weighed in pounds, not KG. I KNOW! A cat can only weigh one weight. The cat weighs the same whether you weigh it in KG or lb. But the fact of the matter is that only foreign products are sold with with the weight listed in KG.

So, here I am with a bait-and-switch product, sent to me illegally.

I called the company, and their solution was to have me ship it back so they could send me real product. Well, have you ever dropped a package in the mail? They ask something like, "Does this package contain anything illegal, hazardous, etc." Well, my answer will be YES!, and they will refuse to ship it. So, I can't return the product. I wouldn't return it to them anyway so they could sell it to some other unsuspecting customer.

So I ask you, what would you do in this situation?

Would you put it on your cats (this medicine has killed cats in the past as a result of toxic reactions)? Would you pursue this company to get them shut down? Would you simply contest the charges and discard the product?

Thanks for you thoughts!

Mike

I think at this point, I'd contest the charges and see what happens. However, under NO circumstances would I use that stuff on your cats if you are unsure. Advantage is a good product, it really works well, but it can cause a deadly reaction in some cats. We have 2 cats and one of them did fine, the other went south in a hurry and ended up spending the night in the animal hospital with an IV in her.

Your best bet for flea control is to go to your vet. It's a little more expensive, but they can match the right treatment to your pets much better than an Internet site can.

I would demand that they send you the real product (even if you don't use it) without illegally returning the non-FDA approved product. If they refuse, I'd threaten to broadcast your story on every pet-related site on the internet recommending that they be boycotted and offer to report them to the FDA (which maybe you should do anyway).

And I'd speak to your vet and see if s/he recommends Advantage for your cats or something else.

I hate fleas.

- Report them to the BBB
- Report them to the FDA

But do that, only after demanding they send you the REAL product. If they fully cooperate, tell them you won't sue them

--cheers

I would run to Walmart or my local pet shop and buy the drops that last a month (they give you a three month supply and it's pretty cheap). There are a couple different brands like Hartz and something else I can't remember. I use those on my dogs and I don't have to worry about fleas or ticks even though my back yard is full of them. They work fine. Plus the directions are in lbs.

Then I would email the site and advise them I wanted to mail back their product for a full refund and see what they say.

All cars stand by unless you have an emergency. I repeat, all cars stand by unless you have an emergency!

I totally and completely agree with everything in Wertz' post. Everything! Intellectually, emotionally and spiritually.

God save my soul..........................

As far as the product you received, as long as it has the identical chemical composition as the US labeled product, it is the same. Labeling does not make the product, the stuff in the white tube does. I can hear you concerns about the legal aspects but as far as the concern for your cats, this is the only important data.

Advantage and Frontline are essentially 100 % effective in killing fleas. As GABA blockers, they have a very wide margin of safety. Both products stay on the outside of the animal on the skin and have low penetration into the animal's internal system. I have always liked that idea over products such as Revolution which are absorbed into the body. Placement of GABA blockers on the neck of a cat is important so they can not lick the area it is applied to. This will keep the stuff on the outside where it needs to be as that is where the fleas will be.

The drops you get with the Hartz label (and similar products sold over the counter) are old school chemicals. They have been around for dozens of years. Their effectiveness is somewhere around 80% kill rate. They also do not have the wider safety margin compared to GABA blockers. Cheaper, yes. They maybe sufficient in some cases but you will see failures with them. These chemicals were the cornerstone of flea control until the superior GABA blockers came on the market approximately five years ago.

Another alternative is the use of the hormones which effect the formation of chitin. This is a class of drugs which may not have any resistance problems. The safety margin is super. If you are an animal which does not form chitin, you should not be effected by it. The drawback to this class is the fleas are not killed but all future generations of fleas are. If you have a bunch of fleas around, go with a GABA blocker but if you wish to keep a currently low flea population low, it is a good choice. The best product in this group is Program. It is generally 30% less expensive than the GABA products.

Yup. I'm with Gray Seal here. It is almost certainly the same stuff. Indeed I'd be surprised if they were in breach of their FDA licence by sending you the same formulation of the same active ingredient as one that IS a legal product, but the only difference being it was made in Germany (Bayer being a German company anyway).

Because I sincerely doubt if:
a. Bayer shipped your supply directing from Germany, rather than one of their US locations, or
b. Bayer smuggled the product into the USA without the knowledge or approval of US Customs.

Now, if the product were not also manufactured in the USA in that particular formulation (i.e if the formulation of what you'd been given were different, for instance if the active ingredient were in a higher concentration), then I think you'd have a case against the FDA.

Oh, and to work out the weight of your cat in kilos, divide by 2.2.

I called Bayer this morning to report this company, and they told me that if it weighs in KG it is not meant for sale, nor is it approved for sale, in the US. They are going to investigate.

I have no doubts that it is the exact same product as the US version. The package is without a doubt a factory seal.

I called the EPA to see what they recommend, and they forwarded me to the Georgia D. of Ag.

I called them, and they have requested that I send them an email containing a scan of the packaging and a copy of the receipt. According to the person with whom I spoke, this used to be a huge problem. He was under the impression that the manufacturers had done quite a bit to combat this, but of course it is still happening. He was very interested in this, and even stated that "an investigation needs to be launched" to figure out why they're selling products that are not authorized for US sales.

Aquilla: Is your kitty okay now?

DP: I didn't think about the BBB. I'll give that a shot.

Danya: I don't want to alarm you, but do a Google search on those Hartz drops or check out http://hartzvictims.org. There are many horror stories involving Hartz and animals who wither away with just one dose.

Gray: Are you a vet? You know a lot! I had been to my vet, and they recommend either Frontline or Advantage. They recommend Frontline more if the cats are outdoor cats, as a result of the tick control as well. I had used Frontline Topspot in the past, and it seems to have made the fleas breed more rapidly. I know they make Frontline Plus, but I figured that if Topspot didn't work, neither would Plus.

The problem is that as much as I like my vet, I simply cannot afford what they charge. They told me it would be nearly $100 a month for flea prevention, all year round. Add that to the 6 six month checkups they recommend and I'm broke! Heck, it cost me over $260 to shots and fixed, and that's still on the credit card! Oh yeah, and the government down here doesn't accept a 3-year rabies shot...you have to get it every year. That adds up too!

Julian: I have no doubt that it is the same chemical. It's more the principle behind it. They said it was US product, and it wasn't.

Passion51 and Wertz: You guys agree? Alarms and buzzers are going off around the world!

Thanks everyone. I'm tempted to change this thread to EntirelyPets.com Complaint so that we beat them in Google...

Mike

I use advantage on my babies (they're dogs but don't tell them that) and I have no problems with fleas. I use to have a BAD problem, but Advantage helped. I treat my yard with diazinon granules.

Borax in the carpet keeps the fleas from reproducing. It's also fairly innocuous, so I'd do that and see how it works before you put anything on your pets.

My parents put advantage on their small (10 pound) dogs, and it worked great for them. I used it on my Dalmatian, too, but our dog was 90 pounds, so that's not much of a comparison.