Please read this thread to know how this topic started.

Madtown-

For 2002, the 401(K) pre-tax limit is $11,000. That's about $211 dollars a week.

If I were investing $211 dollars per week, I'd at least do someresearch.

I didn't say it was the employees' fault that the company fell. I did say, however, that they are responsible for their own financial future.

Just like the law, ignorance is no excuse...

Mike

From Mike
Madtown-

For 2002, the 401(K) pre-tax limit is $11,000. That's about $211 dollars a week.

If I were investing $211 dollars per week, I'd at least do someresearch.

I didn't say it was the employees' fault that the company fell. I did say, however, that they are responsible for their own financial future.

Just like the law, ignorance is no excuse...


I agree, ignorance is no excuse and no, you did not say that it was the employees' fault that the company fell.
But I have to stick up for the employees, because I think they were taken advantage of by Enron management.
You said yourself that they were most likely undereducated so what Enron did to them was really dirty.

Yes, you ARE ALLOWED to put $211.00 per week in 401, but most, or at least a lot of workers,arn't able to come anywhere
near saving that amount each week.

I know, I know, people have to take responsibility for their own lives, but they don't need to be set up
by their employer either.

All people don't come from families where they hear words like "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."

So we basically agree.

I think management pulled the wool over the employees' eyes.

Misstating and falsifying earnings is completely unethical. Anyone complicit should be prosecuted, and forced to pay restitution.

Mike

oddly enough, though Madtown doesn't see it, and that is partly my fault as I was not clear in some of my meaning, we all agree to a point. I evidently don't have the time she has for doing this type of thing.
Mike, I need to ask though..where do you back up the part about undereducated? I am not at all convinced of that. I know some of these people. No they are NOT upper management. Enron employed a lot of very educated people.
I still say people in general are greedy peroid. It is the nature of the beast.

Undereducated in respect to managing their investments. They could be geniuses otherwise for all I know.

The people who "lost everything" or "lost almost everything" obviously did not know how to invest. Their actions speak louder than their words.

The people who had a diverse investment portfolio did not see the complete loss of their portfolio, not to say that their loss is somehow less significant.

And I agree with you that people are greedy. Does anyone dispute that?

I wasn't the one who said it, but yes people are greedy.

I know you will find this hard to believe, but even I am occasionally greedy.

But , I don't think the Enron employees were greedy just because they invested money in the
company they worked for. The CEO's were the greedy ones.

By the way, I didn't even know what kind of a company Enron was until I checked
into it a while ago. I don't think we are talking about undereducated people here.
Perhaps undereducated in handling investments....I got it.
I guess they just didn't expect the company to fold and the bosses run off
with all the dough.

I would say that the Enron employees were greedy too.

For example, I was influenced by greed also when I decided to buy some dot com stocks. And I lost it all. I could have put my money in a money market account. But I didn't. Do I blame all the bankrupt dot com companies for the thousands that I lost? I guess I could file a class action lawsuit against them. But, nobody was forcing me to buy dot com stocks. I was caught up in the dot com fever and I suffered for it.

Sure, the Enron employees could've been misled by upper management. But, in the same way, I was misled by the dot coms. Nobody was forcing the Enron employees to invest in their stocks. They had the free choice to do so. They thought they could strike it rich.

There is a little bit of a difference here Osteng. dot com did not run off with billions of dollers, while the
investors lost everything. Did anyone at dot com have to shoot themselves after they went bankrupt.

Sorry, I don't agree that buying stock equals greed.

I'm not comparing dot coms to Enron. I'm talking about the Enron employees.

1. The Enron employees had the free decision on where to put their money.
2. They looked at the rising share prices of Enron stock and said, "I want to get in on this action."
3. The Enron employees were receiving misleading information from management.

I'm not arguing that buying stock equals greed. But, greed is a factor in buying stock during the "new economy" boom time.

When I bought stock it wasn't because of greed. It was because I wanted to have
enough money to live in comfort in my old age. I didn't want to be a burden to my children.

I suspect that's the reason Emron employees invested in company stock.
If they overbought, or didn't diversify.... that could have been greed.