blownragtop, it's apparent you've taken the time to research your statistics and quotations but I fail to see how any of it addresses the question posed for debate: "Are blacks more racist than whites?"

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this is one of those questions that tend to get people pointing fingers and questioning why, but yall also already knew that much from to start...so here is my little flicker on the subject at hand.
I think it is the whites that tend to be more racist. History has proven time, time and again what we do to people when we are roused to protect that wich is most precious to us ( though it may seem different to some of you) our heritage, our way of life, our accomplishments, our values, and our purity. Being it racism through lible, slander, or even violence whites and blacks both have there gander in the subject. I think racism boils down to one simple thing that drives all things into being, procreation, passing on ones genes, I suppose the question is how one might feel about interracial fornication?

I am not sure if am welcome to state my opinion here as I am not American but I will anyway.
I think that too many people form there opinions on statistics and media. Maybe they should form opinions on there own life experience and morals. Statistics can be used to make either sided of an argument correct just depending where the researches placed there emphasis. Racism does exist; I think everyone agrees on that. But from my experience growing up in Australia is that a lot of black people are there own worst enemy. Hate for the system and white people give them excuses not to try and succeed. I grew up in a predominately black neighborhood with a majority of black friends and still do today. I have seen racist acts against them in shops and by police. This however is reality that if I was a shop owner that saw　4 black guys and a white guy walking in the shop I would be more paranoid then 4 straight looking white guys. Am I a racist? Suppose I am. A racist that has been best man at 2 black man weddings. But I would be just as worried if 4 scruffy white guys waked in the shop. Why is this? Maybe because of the fact that color isn’t the issue rather then economic status. It is sad that the Blacks live in lower income area’s and therefore have a harder time trying make high goals for themselves, but this goes for a white people living in the same situation. The 4 white guys walking in the shop don’t look suspicious because you picture them to be from a higher economic background that will usually mean they are probably stiffs that have never done much against the law. This is not true in all case obviously, but is a probability. Police have the same ideas I would expect. One of my friends constantly complains of racism for everything that goes wrong in his life. He starts fights all the time and usually brings racism into the subject. He never seems to get anywhere in his job and says it is because he is black. Another friend doesn’t have the bad attitude, got a better education while working and has a good job now. Both are black just have different attitudes. But the bad attitude seems to be widespread amongst the black community. This is holding people back that have the ability to go places. I myself was not good at school, choosing to be a bad boy with my bro’s but grew up and made something of myself through better education. I had a single parent up bringing never knowing my father and had the attitude because of it. I am living and working in Japan now and see racism at its worst. Maybe some of the black people should try living in Japan and experience blatant racism. Racism is here and always will be .Yes the whites were cruel a long time ago to other ethnicities, but this has changed. A black person that tries hard to succeed these days I feel has a better chance then a white person, for the simple fact that governments are obliged to help the minority and disadvantaged (not if your white). Yes I am crying reverse racism, but I wouldn’t bother if I didn’t have to hear black people moan about how whites are the evil ones holding them back. Anything that is said is dissected and analyzed to find racism yet a black person can scorn and speak freely without being labeled. I have been in numerous fights because I went to an all black party that other people felt I shouldn’t be apart of, I have never seen the same happen to one of my black friends.
These are my opinions only, no statistics added so nothing to back up my statements. Please excuse my bad grammar as I am not the best at writing.

Throwing in my piece, I'd just like to say that while "Are blacks more racist than whites?" may be considered, in itself, a racist question, there's nothing wrong with offering your opinion regardless of what you think of the person behind the question. I've experienced racism towards me (white male) numerous times, and it seems to me, that pretty much every human being has experienced discrimination (racist, sexist, based on religion, age, etc)...

But, getting back to what I was saying, I've been called derogatory terms for white people often enough. What do I do? I classify them in whatever manner I can, and I call them a derogatory term for that. Of course I don't mean it, but it's certainly frustrating that a black person calling a white person an offensive name is called (by a select few unintelligent people, not all) a part of society, while the reverse is called a narrow-minded attack from an unintelligent person. Now, while calling it a narrow-minded attack from an unintelligent person is certainly correct in my opinion, it is equally as bad coming from any person. It should never be considered OK, in any reference (other than comedy)..and that's my next point.

I'm saying that it's acceptable for comedic purposes because there is not a single subject I will not make a joke about. I don't care about being politically correct, and I don't care if what I say offends someone else. Basically, it's a joke. It's not meant to be taken seriously, and therefore you taking it seriously tells me that you're too sensitive about the subject, and that you probobly have your own issues about it. In my case, joking about offensive things is actually me belittling racism. I'll stereotype white people as much as I will black people, but I never believe it.


I don't really know where I was going with this. I apologize to any confusion that is experienced, as this very well may be the product of a disorganized mind.

"I'm not racist because I have black friends...but" seems to be the main scope of aussie posting. However, I am not going to argue the position of other blacks around the world because I do not know how it is in Australia.

What I do know is that I moved to South Georgia when I was 5. Before then, I never knew anything was wrong about being a different color. I moved to Lee County (guess who that was named for?) and realized just how black I was. Aussie (and others) seem to get the mentality that "if blacks would just do better". It goes well beyond that. In fact, to the extent that I would say that is a discriminatory statement in itself.

For the next six years I was fighting every week while being labeled by many administrators as a delinquent. Nobody cared that other 1st, 2nd, 3rd graders, etc. had already had instilled in their minds by parents that blacks were mere animals. And nobody cared that I was fighting for - if not acceptance - atleast the right to be left alone.

Nobody cares. Everybody just says "if blacks would only...". I was headed downhill until my parents moved me into another city altogether. You may say that a black man should know not to accept everything another person says, but what about a boy at the age of 6 continually told that he will never be good enough because blacks are never good enough? But it doesn't stop there. The Supreme Ct. just ruled a cross-burning in a black man's yard part of the 1st Amendment. The AP Poll just released that an applicant with a "white--sounding" name has a 60% greater chance of receiving an interview than one with a "black--sounding" name.

Yet, there is some sort of "reverse discrimination"? A "better" opportunity for blacks than whites? I would never say whites were more racist (if anything I would attribute the greatest use of stereotype to the higher up the socioeconomic ladder someone is), but I would disagree with Aussie, because people become racist with selective perception; or as he put it "people form[ing] there opinions on there own life experience and morals". We see what we want to see. That's why to some 80% of America racism no longer exists...only reverse discrimination.

Well, UGA BOY I would like to say that maybe you did suffer from discrimination when you were 6, or maybe you were only 6 taking things the wrong way(maybe)did people actually say to your face."You will never amount to anything because you are black" if so, that person was a (you know what).

Another thing I noticed is,you said that one of my comments were discriminatory in itself.Well this is the sort of comment that a white person has to listen to every time they open there mouth.Unless you are good friends the black person you are talking to.It seems that a white person has to prove that they are not racist.

You made a comment about people thinking if they have friends that are black that they are not racist. I think everyone is racist to a certain extent. The difference is whether someone can put the differences aside and accept different people and cultures and live in harmony. Do you think someone is not a racist because they say things that are politically correct. On the contrary, in my opinion the people that watch there step all the time are hiding something.

I found this article on the net.



EDITED TO REMOVE COPYRIGHTED ARTICLE - YOU WILL HAVE TO LINK TO IT PER THE Rules
Sorry for not using paragraphs last message. ME NOT GOOD AT WRITN
but this is good practice.
p.s
I am not saying you are imagining your racist experiences or any other black person. The difference between the person that makes it to there goal, and the one that doesn't is the way they deal with obsticles on the way. Hating and giving excuses will only hold people back.The best way to get back at people you do not like is to succeed!

A comment was made about not having an opinion on racial matters in another country.I think you would find the same problems in every country.Human beings have a way of segregating themselves,spotting deferences asthetically and making stereotypes all over the world.It is human nature(sadly)

I am living in Japan and constantly get stared at.I am not aloud into certain Japanese bars, because I am not Japanese. People will not sit next to me on the bus. If I walk down the street at night in a quiet street people get intimidated,Holding bags or crossing the street. My wife is Taiwanese and has witnessed all these things happen to me. These are constant occurences.

Aussie,

I was not attacking you personally, but I do believe that the more well-off people do look at blacks who are struggling to succeed and say, "well if they would just try harder...". And I also said I don't know about other places becase I have only lived in the US.

Also, I do think that particular sentence was discriminatory statement in that people always seem to generalize that those who are on the lower rung of soceity just didn't try as hard as the others. Or that these people are just making justifications for their status.

And no, I was not told by any one person specifically that blacks never amount to anything. The experience goes more to the effect of "Niggers are only good for picking cotton" a phrase too commonly expressed by many children who should be too young to express such hate.

It has nothing to do with being politically correct. To generalize that lower-end blacks should just try harder "like the rest of us" is saying that they aren't trying. We are only one generation out of the Civil Rights era, and some children are the first to go to college. If you don't think that there are much higher obstacles to overcome because of being a minority in general, then - I repeat - it must be because of different countries.

You - a person whose race I presume has not had much racial conflict in history with the Japanese - said that racism is pretty obvious where you live. Why not accept that blacks - whose race has been publicly pin-pointed as inferior from the beginning of American history until just 40 years ago - might know a little bit about racism and discrimination.

I'm not saying for us to use it as an excuse (I'm not anyway). I'm saying for others to believe that what I experienced and know I will probably continue to experience - as WELL as others - is not some made up story from a 1940s history book. And about exceeding, I don't know about Astralia (again), but since the Civil Rights era blacks have had the fastest growing household income in the United States. Distribution of Household Income by Race

The ultimate thing that needs to come to an end is the repeated excuse "racism"! Every single disagreement between a white and a black can't be resolved without the black person claiming racism.

Today , I was talking to a friend who claimed they didn't know what n*i*g*g*a meant. I am uncertain whether they were serious or just playing stupid. Her coworker is a black who I thought I was friends with, so I mentioned to him "She actually says she doesn't know what n*i*g*g*a means", spelling the word, not saying it. His other job just so happens to be at the same place as my mother. Well, after she left he comes up to me and tells me that if he didn't know my mother he would have beat the #### out of me! He straight up called me a racist when all I did was say that someone claimed they didn't know the meaning of the word used commonly in a friendly manner among blacks. This was just after watching the movie "Pool Hall Junkies", in which a black man explains that there is a big difference between n*i*g*g*e*r and n*i*g*g*a.

What does it take for this lame excuse to come to an end? Do whites need to go using "cracka" as a slang for friend amongst themselves and try to charge blacks with racism every time they say the word? Even in the Michael Jackson case his parents have started crying racism and Michael is whiter than your average caucasian now!!!! Just as everyone has already pointed out on this page, blacks now have more rights! I see all black colleges but no white, all black scholarships but no white, black churches...it just goes on.

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That's amazing, poolhall, how you could conclude that because of your single, lone experience, that every single disagreement that's happened between a white person and a black person can't be resolved without the black person crying racism. Not to say anecdotes aren't helpful in debating, but using your one experience with a black person getting offended at you using the word "nigga" to prove that blacks are more racist than whites really doesn't follow sound logic. To me, they had a valid reason for being offended, even though I don't agree with anyone using any variation of the word.
You've really "seen" an all-black college? I don't think you have, for an all-black college would be illegal, and I doubt you've seen every single student at that college to judge their racial origins. Maybe you mean historically black? Poolhall, did you realize that the vast majority of colleges are historically white? Believe it or not, not so long ago blacks were prohibited from attending colleges, and so naturally, they would be white. So black people formed their own colleges, and bam! There you have it. A college that's historically black. Non-blacks are still allowed to attend these colleges, because calling a college historically anything indicates something about it's origins, or history. Meaning in the past. Anyone can attend a historically black college. So, next point please.
Oh. Black churches. Churches usually aren't public domain, so whomever starts them can exclude and include anyone they want to for any reason they want to, I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the separation of church and state logically follows that the government would have no business telling a church whom it has to include or exclude. Anyways, please provide a link to a "black" church that refuses to allow non-blacks to join, and I'd be able to understand your point a little better. But finding one church that racially discriminates against all the other predominantly black church that don't doesn't make for the best evidence.

Suzy,
You commonly used the same argument that all the blacks used when they accuse people of racism. HISTORY...You are going back to how colleges were originally white. America was originally white for crying out loud. How do you expect there to have been colleges back then that were all black? Going back to history, why is it that even blacks of my generation can't quit expecting reimbursement because their great great grandparents were slaves. Slavery ended how long ago? So why should I have to makeup for something I didn't do. If someone is a slave today then that person deserves sorrow and it should be stopped. Just like how you asked me to find an all-black church, please name for me one black who is alive and still a slave to a white person.
Second, the church issue was not my main argument at all. I'm saying that I can easily see a protest if something like White Entertainment Network was to come out, even though we have BET. When is the last time you saw a black charged with racism? I am not just speaking out from the experience of yesterday either. I have had times in high school where I am in a 1-1 fight with a black person over something non-racial and yet three more blacks jump in to help him. Was jumping in and attacking me when the fight didn't concern them not racism? Please explain that to me.
The biggest thing that gets me is how frequently they use the word themselves out in public. I, a caucasian, have even been referred to using the word by a black. Why is that not racism? I honestly hear racism claimed in nearly all court cases involving both parties. Unless there is some kind of crime where somebody goes mailbox bashing on the street and on a given road, only the houses with black residents get bashed [B]The excuse for failure and mistakes of racism needs to stop!

Okay. I almost didn't read your entire post. I got up to "America was originally white for crying out loud" and then I stopped. If you knew anything about American history at all, you would know that the original Americans were Native Americans, commonly referred to as Indians. Remember, when Christopher Columbus tried to find a shortcut to India and ended up in North America instead? Jesus Christ.
Accusing me of "commonly using the same arguement when they accuse people of racism" is pure #### What I told you what that that person who got mad at you for saying "nigga" was wrong - I don't believe anyone should use it, and if black people can use it then non-blacks should be able to as well - but I can understand it, and if I were in their shoes I would feel my anger was justified.
Then you make a comment about history, but since it's obvious you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, I'm not going to debate history with you.
Blacks of your generation "can't quit expecting reimbursement?" What a lovely generalization about an entire group of people. Because I'm sure you personally know every black person in the world and every single black person in the world "can't quit expecting reimburstment." Maybe I was out of class that day when you visited the black kids at my school, because I don't expect any reimburstment at all. No one, especially not I, am saying that you should have to "makeup" for something you didn't do. In any case, this debate is not about reparations. This debate is about whether blacks are more racist than whites, and you have yet to provide any reasonable proof to back up your bigoted rhetoric.
Nice try, answering my question for proof of your assumptions with asking me for proof of something completely unrelated. How's about you answer my question first, and then I'll get back to yours? The question was not about finding an all-black church in the first place, which shows how well you comprehended my post. The question asked you to find a black church that excludes non-blacks. Just because a church is all black does in no way make it racist. The same goes for whites. As long as the people there are there because they want to be, no one's going to push for affirmative action in churches. But when someone is excluded from a church on the basis of their race, that is racism.
If you're going to argue that there are no effects of slavery still in existance today, that again belongs in another thread. It's unfortunate that black people feel offended when white people use the word "nigga" and the most obvious solution would be that neither parties use any variation of the word at all, but I'm not quite sure that fits the definition of "racism."
You've obviously had many encounters with black people that have unfairly biased you against them. I say you need to go out and socialize with more of them before you pass judgements on every black person. Black people, hell, groups of every race have inclinations to "stick together" and "help each other out." Is that racism or simply acting in self-interest? From my observations, the racial problems at your school could have been the black people unfairly acting on that "we need to stick together" mentality, or you could have waltzed in spewing accusations like "every single disagreement that's happened between a white person and a black person can't be resolved without the black person crying racism" and "blacks of my generation can't quit expecting reimbursement because their great great grandparents were slaves", then they could have jumped your butt and it would have been justified.
p.s. I will gladly explain to you how those big bad mean black people ganging up on poor defenseless you is not racism. For all you know, they could have been best friends who happen to be black. Friends tend to help each other out. And there you are and you happen to be white. Everyone has to have a race. Seems to me like you're the one getting hung up on the race of everyone involved.

Attempt at bypassing profanity filter removed

But that's something entirely different. Black, in that sense, refers not only to race, but to a specific subculture in America. If we saw a "Goth Entertainment Television", this would be much the same. Goths are predominately white, but this doesn't smack of racism in the way that the generalisation of a "White Entertainment Television", which refers to a great deal of varied subcultures, would. A Latin-American Television wouldn't raise eye-brows, and neither would "The Texan Cowboy Channel".

Suzy,
I know that caucasians weren't the VERY FIRST on North America! My point is that blacks came over after caucasians. And enough with this technical junk "well if you think they're all that way then you haven't been to my school". Did I say 100% of blacks claim whites are racist? Plus, I did not SAY the word, I said to a black man that I knew well "can you believe she doesn't know what n*i*g*g*a means?" SPELLING the word. It would be different if I was using the word towards somebody, or even said something like "turn those nigga tunes off". And screw the church topic for God's sake! I was not even on the topic of churches. It was one little example of things that exist all-black.
Call it "Racial-Unity" or whatever in the heck you want, but I say that three blacks jumping in on a fight when the fight was even is in my eyes clearly racism. Your just trying to turn that crap around and say that they did it because their friend was black, not because I was white. I highly doubt those three would have jumped in and ganged up on one person if there were two blacks going at it. And this "we need to stick together" mentality junk. In that situation it is to overcome a white person and is therefore racism.
In almost every case I have watched, if a white man assaults a black man he is charged with assault and is commonly accused of racism, but why is it that when the roles are reversed that the black man is never charged with racism? When the actual reason for an action against a black is racism, it is clear cut, as in my example of damage being done only to black residents property. But the majority of times that the accusation racism is made, race was no factor whatsoever. Do you honestly believe that the accusations agains Michael Jackson or Kobe Bryant are because they are black? In both cases, the Jackson family and Kobe Bryant's side have already brought up racism!
The thing that got me started in this discussion is that I feel I was a clear-cut example that too many false accusations of racism are made and I believe the only explanation is that the ones making the claim are either racist themselves or want some simple excuse.

First, a suggestion to you poolhall: Do not say something and not expect it to be challenged. I don't care if it was just "an example" or what "your point" was. If you say things that are obviously against reality, people like myself (and any debater worth their merit) will call you on it.

You state that you know caucasians weren't the very first people in North America.
You said: "America was originally white for crying out loud." Dictionary.com defines "original" as: "Preceding all others in time; first." That is what you stated. Do not blame me for your incorrect wording of expressing what you "really" meant.

And then you say "enough with this technical junk"... well, you may be surprised at this, but here on America's Debate we take "technical junk" very seriously. So if you're looking to make loose, unfounded accusations and not be challenged on them, this is not the board for you.

Instead of responding to my comment about the churches, you state "screw the church topic." Okay. So when you make a comment, and someone responds, you're just going to say "screw what I said"? That isn't anywhere near the realm of serious debating. On this board, when you post something and someone responds, it's considered fair and courteous to respond to it. If you didn't want anyone to respond to it, then there's a very simple rule that I recommend you follow: DON'T BRING IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. The statement you made about the churches is very relevant to the debate, because you were trying to prove how blacks are more racist than whites and then used black churches for your "proof." I effectively ripped your proof to shreds and then you try to claim that it wasn't part of your point.

The event in your eyes was clearly racism, but from what I've read FROM YOU about how it happened, that is not supported by fact. I'm just trying to "turn that crap around amd say they did it because their friend was black, not because you were white." Um, yes, I did. Your point is? It's not like you caught me doing something that wasn't obvious.

Tell me, poolhall, when someone says that their favorite color is red, do you feel that's discriminating against blue? If not, then there's no reason why you should feel that one's impulse to support people of their own race means that they hate other races. That does not follow logic. If a woman supports her daughter, does that automatically mean she doesn't support her son? Your reasoning is fallacious.
You did not use the number "100%" when stating how many blacks claim whites are racist, but you didn't have to. The number is clearly inferred by subtext, as with all generalizations.

You call the "we need to stick together mentality" "junk" without any proof. Look around you, poolhall. Ever heard the saying "birds of a feather flock together"? White people tend to marry white people. Black people tend to marry black people. They tend to have friends of the same race, neighbors of the same race. The proof of this mentality is everywhere. Where's yours that it isn't?
You highly doubt that they would have jumped in and ganged up on one person if there were two blacks at it. You are so bent on trying to make blacks seem more racist that you completely ignore logic.

My scenario was that maybe they ganged up on you because they were friends with the guy. You don't even consider this a possibility of being true for no apparent reason, but according to my friend logic, it is a very real possibility. Likewise, if you were black, it wouldn't have mattered. They still would have jumped in because maybe, just maybe, RACE HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT (and friendship did). What difference would it make what race you were, if they were all friends? Do you not feel an impulse to stick up for and defend your friends, poolhall?

"In almost every case I have watched, if a white man assaults a black man he is charged with assault and is commonly accused of racism, but why is it that when the roles are reversed that the black man is never charged with racism?" Considering how "in almost every" and "commonly" are rather ambiguous terms, and "never" is... well... highly unlikely, your statement seems based on personal feelings and nothing based in reality and facts. You might have watched maybe TWO cases, one with a white perpetrator, and one black. But unless the details concerned the cases were EXACTLY alike, there's no way you can compare the two! Anyways, being "charged" with racism is absurd, as there is no law against it. So of course the black man was never "charged" with racism, jesus christ. What country are you living in?! First the original Americans were white, and then you complain that black men aren't "charged" with racism when they assault a white man (and I haven't heard of ANY cases were the assaulter was of a different race than the assaultee, but okay... I'm sure they exist, but if I've never heard of ONE then I find it highly unlikely that you've heard of as several as you claim). Of course, this is excluding law enforcement.

You say the actual reason for an action against a black is racism, and it's even CLEAR CUT. With absolutely NO evidence, links, or a shred of proof to be found except your ridiculous anecdotes. That is purely your own opinion, which here at AD we like to be supported by EVIDENCE. You state that the majority of times that the accusation of racism is made, race was no factor whatsoever. How in god's green earth can you possibly know that?! You ask me if I honestly believe that the accusations against Michael Jackson and Kobe Bryant are because they're black, and I don't. And that proves what, considering I've never "charged" either of the prosecutors with doing so because of their race? Yes, people have brought up racism in those cases, and I think that in the case of Michael Jackson, it's ridiculous. In the case of Kobe Bryant, there is a racism of sorts going on - of black people tending to believe in his innocence just because he's black and the accuser isn't, and vice versa with the other side. Both are wrong to do so, but I'm not one of those people, and I'm black. So you bet I'm going to challenge you when you make blanket, unsupported stereotypes about how EVERY BLACK PERSON THINKS AND FEELS.

You feel that you are a clear-cut example of racism. I feel that you are a clear-cut example of the "we need to stick together mentality", and that doesn't just go for race - it goes for gender, ethnicity, religion, etc. This is FACT, and how you completely disregarded FACT as being "crap" really tells me something about your debating ability. And until you can provide a shred of proof that "too many false accusations of racism are made" besides your completely unobjective feelings, I will continue to feel the way I do about your case.

(p.s. I thought the "god's green earth" thing was kinda witty of me... ahh I need to get out more)

The racism of whites against blacks and the racism of blacks against whites are two different types of racism. Let me *try* to play out both sides as I see them. Keep in mind I will be generalizing as I see the situation; what I write will not be true for every person, of course.

RACISM A - White against Black:
- deep-seated, historical, perhaps geographical
- stems from the history of the nation (U.S.)
- in the South, this can stem from bitterness over the Civil War.
- some people truly feel blacks are inferior (looking at history).

RACISM B - Black against White:
- anger toward white at past racism
- they see racism still exist today
- because past racism was so prevailent, they feel that any incident from type A reaffirms the fact that most whites are as racist as their ancestors.
- they feel they need compensation or affirmative action to combat this racism and/or make up for past wrongs.
- judges whites by the color of their skin because they truly believe most whites are racist.
- a genuine belief that whites want to keep them down.

RACISM C - White against Black (revisited):
- a new type, becoming prevailent
- whites becoming embittered that blacks are asking for compensation and/or affirmative action
- these whites are upset because they are not racist type A, but they feel they are being grouped by blacks (racist type B ) as racists.
- Therefore, they start to view blacks as racist and hold resentment toward them (Racism type C).
- this then feeds Racism type B.

As Racism A dies out, racism types B and C feed off each other, and both groups become more segregated in their beliefs. The solution, as I see it, is to eliminate all societal regulations giving preference due to race. I find these racial preferences completely contradictory. We are trying to teach children on one hand that treating people differently on the basis of race is wrong, while on the other hand we (as a society) condone affirmative action programs and other ways to give preference to certain races.

Minorities may argue that affirmative action programs (i.e. for college admissions) gives them a fighting chance and puts them at an equal footing with whites because blacks had historically been kept down. This is understandable, but using "race" as the criterion doesn't fly.

How about using a financial factor instead? Allowing economic preference is something with which I feel far less people would have a problem. This way (1) the people who are truly at a disadvantage get a leg-up, and (2) we as a society are not contradicting ourselves in abhorring racism.

Since finances are the best and most readily accessible indicator of a person's advantaged or disadvantaged state in society, I think this should be the factor. There are rich black folks and poor white folks...under racial affirmative action, we treat them the same. Let's change the system to an economic one and give the people who really require help the assistance need.

Bet

Do you all know that Latins have a Channel now? Check Channel 8.So it's not just Blacks.Also Whites do have their own Channel-Really more then 1.What about CMT? A Channel that shows White Movies,Shows and Videos.So It's not just Blacks that have a Channel.Everytime I turn on my TV in the morning-I see White.TV is dominated by Whites.Fact:Whites are on TV more then Blacks.Blacks just have 1 damn Channel-Not like 5 and Every month someone is complaining about it when they know damn well that Whites are on mostly every Channel.I forgot the name but their is a station that is a only Women Channel.Men is on it but the station shows Movies and Shows based on Women. I have yet to see a Black Women on their. I have yet to even see a Commercial that have a Black Women in it.Also someone here said no Whites are on Bet.Not true-What about Eminem? Buh Buh?(Rapper)? What about Justin Timberlake? What about White Comedians? So that statement is False.No White person shouldn't even complain about Blacks having a Channel about their History,Music and Shows.I have yet to see a Documentary about Black History on "The History Channel" just about White Presidents,Kings and Leaders.What about Black History? Blacks ruled Egypt thousands of years but the Whites wana claim Egypt too? They wana claim Moses as White.They wana claim the Lord as White.They wana claim they was here in AMERICA 1st. When Indians was and Africans came 2nd.Africans was before Columbus.Did you know that? Africans didn't just pick cotton.White people always think they are better then Blacks.Your race alter History.

-A Black women name Sarah Boone invented the ironing board.
-A Black man name Jan E. Matz invented the shoe lasting machine.
-A Black man name Walter Sammons invented the comb.
-A Black women name Lydia Newman invented the brush.
-A Black man name Lloyd invented the dust pan.

Did you know a Black man started the 1st open heart surgery?

Others Blacks invented:

Mop
Pencil Sharpner
Clothes Dryer
Pen
Type Writing Machine
Printing Press
Lawn Mower
Auto Gear Shift
Engines
Traffic Light
Refrigarator
Heating Furnace
Air Conditoner
Trolley
Elevator
Mailbox
Light Bulb

I can name more if you want me to.

I wonder if these racist in the world know this.What if their was no blacks? No AC,Heater,Light and Cars,etc.

So it's good that their is a Black History Month.Blacks have done alot.Instead of hearing about MLK,Rosa Parks,and Harriet every year in School.Kids should learn
other things instead of Black Leaders and Slavery.

I just had to get off-topic for about 5 minutes because some Whites think they did everything.They think they are better then Blacks.

So anyways their should be some Documentarys about Black inventions and Culture on the History Channel.

So like I said Whites believe it or not.Whites are on TV more then Blacks and Whites have their own channel even though it isn't named "WET".

BHM

Blacks have did alot.In Feburary in School is the only time we get to learn about Black History.Feburary is the only time Blacks are reconigzed in History Books.After Feburary it is back to European History.

Isn't their a Latin- History Month too?


White History Month
------------------------
All year.

So stop the complaining.

Subject

My answer is no.Like others have stated.Their are racists in every race.You have not seen EVERY BLACK PERSON IN THIS WORLD so how can someone figure out that Blacks are more racists then Whites? Their are Black and White racists. If Every BLACK MALE AND FEMALE IN THE WORLD SAID "IM RACIST" AND LESS WHITES SAID THE SAME THEN THEIR IS YOUR PROOF BUT NOW-THEIR IS NO PROOF AND PROBALLY NEVER WILL BE. It's so stupid to say one race is more racist then the other.

Im done.Suzy has summed it all up-No more for me to say,only if I find a post I wana reply too.

Was Thomas Edison black? Was Gutenberg black? Was Bill Clinton our first black President? Please give me a site that documents the invention of the mop. The comb was invented many times in the prehistorical era. If absurd claims of black inventions is what much of black history month consists of we need to get rid of it. It would be kind of depressing for me, if I was black, about hearing how our great race had invented the mop and dustpan.

http://www.ncat.edu/~childres/mop.html
Has documentation of the invention of the mop. If you type "Who invented the Mop" in google you'll get several sites that back this up and consider this the invention of the mop as we know it.

Of course I can't prove Thomas W. Stewart was Black. I think you're missing the point of the black inventions list, however. The point is to show that Blacks have a long history of contributing to American Culture in forms which go beyond stereotypical connotations. That is the point of Black History month, to reinforce this idea and try to erase a predefined ideal of African-American History which begins with slavery and ends with the passage of the Civil Rights bill.

Teacher: Yesterday we were discussing the Great Depression and how it permanently changed America's socioeconomic politics. Today, however, is February 1st let us turn to the subjects of the inventions of the mop, dustpan and pencil sharpener.

I still have a hard time believing that someone using a stick to push a cloth along the floor was not independantly invented numerous times, kind of like the comb.
It was a white guy who invented the pet rock.

I am beginning to take a stand against Black History Month.

I like the way Goldblum atleast characterized the different "racial specturms" for lack of a better phrase. And I do know there are many blacks who are bitter about what happened in the past...

However, I think that in this day in age the many of the whites in column C are claiming reverse discrimination only because they feel threatened by black achievement.

I think some do have an idea of where a black man's "place" should be. Why else is there an argument about BET - a channel with more white hosts than Fox News has minorities - when the channel was created as a support of black culture during a time when racism was extremely prevalent? Especially when there are channels that support other cultures that no even takes notice of?

But it doesn't stop there. The AP Poll came out with stats late last year that in this day in age if a white and black person with perfectly identical resumes go out for a job, the white person has a 70% better chance of an interview? And this is at the same time that the Supreme Court decided it was against the law to punish two white boys for burning a cross in a black man's yard because they have a "first amendment right". Let them come in my yard.

And now Hugo feels threatened by Black History Month? I'm sorry. I really am. I didn't even know there was a Black History Month until 4th grade, because my teachers in county I lived before moving didn't think it was necessary. In fact, in the all-white county I lived in before my parents finally moved, they were still teaching why slavery was a good thing. Of course, some hear may not see the strangeness in this declaration.

And finally the question of Affirmative Action. Blacks make up 12% of America to whites 75% (not exactly but it makes doing the math easier), yet every white who doesn't get a job or accepted into college is because of a black man, right? If Coca-Cola moves into a major city that is indicative of America demographic, and needs 50 high-level positions but (under AA) cannot find 6 black people who are qualified...SIX...then there is a problem.

And to sincerely disagree with this statement, explains the reason racism still exists.

Not threatened at all. Fortunately my child has already graduated from high school and do not any longer have to worry about his education including information on the invention of the dustpan. I have a bit of concern about the half-truths and lies being taught as part of black history.

from www.ishangohouse.com/Black%20Inventors.htm

This is the story of a little boy named Theo who woke up one morning and asked his mother, Mom, what if there were no Black people in the world? Well his mother thought about that for a moment, and then said, Son, follow me around today and let's just see what it would be like if there were no Black people in the world. Mom said, now go get dressed and we will get started.

Theo ran to his room to put on his clothes and shoes. His mother took one look at him and said, Theo, where are your shoes and those clothes are all wrinkled son, I must iron them. But when she reached for the ironing board it was no longer there. You see Sarah Boone, a black woman, invented the ironing board and Jan E. Matzelinger, a black man invented shoes.

Oh well, she said, please go and do something to your hair. Theo ran in his room to comb his hair, but the comb was not there. You see, Walter Sammons, a black man invented the comb. Theo decided to just brush his hair, but the brush was gone. Lydia O. Newman, a black female, invented the brush. Well this was a sight, no shoes, wrinkled clothes, hair a mess, even Mom's hair, without the hair care inventions of Madam C. Walker, well you get the picture.

Mom told Theo, let's do our chores around the house and then take a trip to the grocery store. Theo's job was to sweep the floor. He swept and swept and swept. When he reached for the dustpan, it was not there. You see. Lloyd P. Ray, a black man, invented the dustpan. So he swept his pile of dirt over in the comer and left it there. He then decided to mop the floor, but the mop, was gone. You see, Thomas W. Stewart, a black man. invented the mop.

Theo yelled to his Mom, Mom, I'm not having any luck. Well son, she said, let me finish washing these clothes and we will prepare a list for the grocery store. When the wash was finished, she went to place the clothes in the dryer but it was not there. George T. Samon, a black man, invented the clothes dryer. (end of quote)

From www.liesexposed.net?nfp/issue0112/blinn.htm

campaigns are spreading across America attempting to credit black "inventors" with certain inventions. One such campaign is promoted by IBM who offers a poster of "Famous Black Inventions." Included on this poster are pictures of blacks and their supposed inventions - including the traffic light.

While the black Garrett A. Morgan did submit and receive a patent for a traffic signal in 1923, he did not invent the traffic light. The first "traffic light" was created in London in 1868, used to control the traffic of pedestrians and buggies. It was illuminated by gas using green and red colors, and was manually operated by policemen who turned a lever to reveal the appropriate color to the appropriate lane of traffic. Railroads were already using a lighting system as well. It was a police officer, William Potts, who first improved on the gas-light invention, which required a police officer to operate. William Potts recognized the need for something better when he observed that police officers were spending much of their time directing traffic after the invention of the automobile. He created an electric lighting system using red, amber, and green to control automobile traffic in Detroit. It was first used in 1920 and was the herald of the modern traffic light. William Potts was not black. Garrett A. Morgan's traffic light of 1923 did not contribute significantly to the traffic light of today, but resembled train switching lights already in use.

When reading these lists of so-called inventions, which are especially prevalent on the Internet, it becomes painfully obvious the lies contained within those lists. These lists are especially popular on college campuses. Afrocentrism is the term used to describe the attempts to cover-up the truth of history by spreading lies which claim that the blacks of Africa actually created civilization. This ridiculous theory is being taught in many schools and even universities. Many college graduates think they are being intelligent when they state that without H. A. Jackson, we wouldn't have a kitchen table, which he "invented" on October 6, 1896. This is how ridiculous these lists have become. I am sure that the kitchen table was invented centuries ago, although I don't believe the blacks in Africa were furnishing their mud huts with kitchen tables. H.A. Jackson may have submitted an idea for a patent which was a special modification of the kitchen table, but he certainly did not invent it, and neither did his patent have any significance on the civilization of the world. This is also true for W. R. Davis, Jr., who is credited with inventing the library table - in 1878!

What many are doing is obtaining patent lists of blacks and then attempting to pass them off as inventions. Most of what these people are doing is taking a certain invention, modifying it in some way, and then patenting that modification. In other words, they are not patenting original creations. Many are just outright lying. One list credits Sarah Boone, a female black, with the invention of the ironing board in 1892. White people were ironing clothes on ironing boards long before 1892. (end of quote)

I am sure glad black people invented the kitchen table. A question.. I have seen photos of kitchen tables that are pre-1896, there are some paintings that include kitchen tables that date to the medieval period. How does this not refute claims the kitchen table was invented in 1896? It seems like to me black history is being embellished with lies and half-truths. I feel sorry for any college student who believes the kitchen table and the comb were late 19th century inventions.



If none of the 50 top candidates are black Coca-Cola should not have to hire them. It is racism to suggest they should.

Lies. All lies. Yeah, I'm sure. Blacks really weren't able to invent anything. So what we did was take all the millions of dollars we had back in the 1800s and concocted a scheme to take credit for all the inventions that were created hundreds of years before.

We stole such stupidly obvious inventions as the rotary engine, refrigerator, lawn mower, the 20th C traffic signal as well as the NINETEENTH CENTURY railway signal (that little lies exposed website forgot to mention that black person - A.B. Blackburn).

And this is supposed to be the argument against Black History Month. Please. And even though obviously not enough research was done on Hugo's part to show that there were many civilized African nations, apparently there is more than enough done that we should forget about our ancestral celebration, because half are apparently lying crooks and the other half are taking jobs from good, hardworking white folk...

"We just can't seem to find any good blacks, Jim."



I apologize for all the oppression we blacks have put your son through. After all, I don't see how anyone can deal with more than 18 years of oppression.

And how about asking your son (who dealt with the pain so much) how many black inventors he knows?

[We know which group HE is in]

So are you telling me that the kitchen table and shoes were invented in the 19th Century? I guess I am just dissappointed my son does not know who our 1st President was, but knows who invented the dustpan.

Goldblum run for office so I can vote for you.

Are blacks more racist than whites nope.

What would be the best way to deal with racism.
Date everybody.
Your lovelife should resemble a Benetton ad.

My personal opinion
I cannot speak for the rest of the world but I am confident that here in America
that we will have this problem somewhat licked in only 30 years.
Why?
Simple because as each generation dies they take their stupid prejudices with them. Each new generations leaves a few of foolish ones that the earlier were too cowardly to drop behind. Look around folks the kids are alright. They are all mixing together( black white latino asian and what have you.) and having a blast. The popular culture is a motley of so many flavors I'm jealous cause it makes my teen years seem dull. It is in fact is spreading like wildfire. So everyone be quiet and please exit quietly and take your ignorance with you when you go. The kids will get the lights.

On the black aspect of racism: 400 years plus of exploitation does not disappear in only 50 some odd years. In my opinion blacks in America are like recent immigrants to America as they really have only had real respect of their civil rights for a few years. It may have started in the 60s but only since the 90s have they actually gotten fair treatment as Americans. They are finding their rightful and long overdue place in this country. How is it going?
I think the fact that there are now large elements in the Black community that find affirmative action insulting instead of a desperately needed liferaft is a very good sign that America is finally starting to work as intended.

This may come as a shock to most people but that is not surprising considering the media and other double standard brain washing the world experiences everyday. Blacks are by far more racist than whites, Period. Im not talking about bumtown Kentucky Tenessee white trash whites either. First of all, how many stand up comics, movies and other sorts of entertainment do you see black performers dogging white people? Im not talking about little things either like making fun of crackers dancing either. What about the fact that every company that employees over 99 people must hire a certain amount of minorities? What abouth the fact that my parents made a certain amount of money together ($48K) and I was ineligable for finacial aide for college. My parents stopped paying for everything including my books for high school, to my contact lens's or glasses, to, my clothing to my lunch to anything that a parent is expected to pay for a 15 year old. I did not graduate high school, I tried to go to college, I could not afford to pay for college and rent and car payment and insurance and food and clothing. If I was a minority I would have been able to get free college. I was forced into the military instead even though it is NOT my style. It is as simple as that! The days of feeling sorry and using the race card are getting OLD. I swear to god I used to feel that everyone was equal now I feel like Im at a disadvantage being a white man. Sounds messed up doesn't it? It is like the times have turned and black people have a secret agenda against the world. On this weekend the annaversary of MLK birthday, we talk about his speach of equal rights. The fact is his dream came true and not only that he got the revenge 90% of blacks were looking for at the time of MLK. I had nothing to do with the decisions that were made in the past nor did I agree with them, but now I am sitting here as an American that is white and I feel like the tables have turned. America lives by a double standared everday. Rush Limbaugh caught hell for saying the media wants a black QB to excell in the NFL and is forced to resign. The same year Payton Manning has to share MVP honors with a black QB whose stats he blows away. They were in the same division, the same position, Manning beat Mcnair twice, his stats kill Mcnairs, but they share the MVP award. That is racist. BET is racist, Miss Black America is racist, Ebony magazine is racist, need I go on? I am not a racist person I just do not understand why it is so negative to be proud to be caucacian, and why it is considered to be racist if your a proud white male. Its not the color of your skin that makes your person. Equal right is not balanced at this time.

Blacks are by far more racist than whites, Period.

Have you asked every black if they are racist? Have you asked every white if they are racist?

Im not talking about bumtown Kentucky Tenessee white trash whites either.

Still white.

First of all, how many stand up comics, movies and other sorts of entertainment do you see black performers dogging white people?

I will admit,alot does but I have seen 3 stand up comedians dogging blacks.(Twice on Bet and CMT).Their are some stereotypical white comedians too. People need to realise that it isn't only blacks.

Their are so many stereotypical black movies and I have seen whites dogging at blacks too.

It's actually pathetic to say either race is more racist because no one has lined every black and white in a line and ask if they are racist.

Im not talking about little things either like making fun of crackers dancing either.

What about the white comedians that says blacks have big lips and have attitude problems? What about them saying blacks don't work,just smoke weed? What about the white comedians that says blacks love chicken and watermelon?

Blacks get humilated too.

It is like the times have turned and black people have a secret agenda against the world.

black people? It's like you categorizing all blacks in one form.



Rush Limbaugh caught hell for saying the media wants a black QB to excell in the NFL and is forced to resign. The same year Payton Manning has to share MVP honors with a black QB whose stats he blows away. They were in the same division, the same position, Manning beat Mcnair twice, his stats kill Mcnairs, but they share the MVP award. That is racist.

That's not racist.

BET is racist

How is it racist? Do you even watch Bet? You probally think it's racist just because the channel is a Black Entertainment.

If It was racist why does it have white rappers on it? white interviewers? white singers? movies with whites in it? BET isn't racist.

If anything,it will be more racist towards blacks then whites.

Miss Black America is racist, Ebony magazine is racist, need I go on?

I have heard of those too but anyways how are they racist? Yeah go on.

KKK is racist,Skinheads is racist,Whitepride is racist,need I go on?

I am not a racist person I just do not understand why it is so negative to be proud to be caucacian,

Who said it was negative to be a proud caucasian?

and why it is considered to be racist if your a proud white male.

I never knew if you was proud to be a white male,your considered to be a racist.

It seems very ironic. Spatridge starts off by saying blacks are far more racist than whites, but then use pretty much every avenue of black cultre as the reasons why.

Forget about the Limbaugh comment when it is quite obvious he was trying to stir racial controversy when not it is quite obvious Steve McNair took a fairly new team with no hope from every sports' commentator's angle and actually gave well-known football teams a scare in their own territory.

Forget the fact that, despite his claims MLK fought for the EQUALITY of all and repeatedly claimed that "A threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere".

Forget the fact that the latest AP Poll shows that a black person with identical records is 7 times less likely to be called in for an interview and 48 times more likely arrested for drugs. Or that people cry out against Affirmative Action, because ideally a company hiring 50 new employees should not have a problem finding 6 - SIX - that are black.

OR the fact that, despite your personal problems, the person most likely for a college loan or grant is a white male, and the person most likely to benfeit from Affirmative Action is a white female.

Forget all that because blacks are obviously far more racist. THe problem with the way people like spatridge think is that it doesn't matter how many whites get in, if one does not then AA must be racist. Some white rejects were rallying otside Berkeley University a couple of years back because they claim it was due to AA. The facts: Over 500 whites got in. 60 blacks got in. More than 1,000 protested.

As I said earlier, I would never claim an entire race as being racist. I think racism is perpetuated in the home, not the skin. That being said, I wonder what kind of home spatridge lived in to claim me as well as every other person with slightly less melanin as having some vandeta against the white people.

My best friend is Amerasian--half Thai and half-White. She and I have been friends for over thirteen years now, since high school. But during and since our college years, I have noticed something very interesting happening with her.

At her large public college, Deidre (not her real name) had to deal with a great deal of rudeness and disrespect from her Black dorm/campus mates. We discussed at length her frustration with what she felt was reverse discrimination. Many times over the course of her college career, she would approach neighbors about their loud music after hours, only to be ignored or even insulted. Then she began to watch "their" behaviors in classes and walking on the sidewalk.

Several years later, our South Mississippi community experienced "Black Spring Break." I was still in college at this time, away from the coast. Deidre was working in Biloxi, the city where thousands of Black students gathered. On her way home from work one afternoon during that time, she was stuck in traffic for about three hours. (The ride normally took fifteen minutes.) A Black guy stuck his head through her car window and asked to borrow a cigarette lighter. She cursed him out. His response: "Get your rebel flag off my *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. ***!"

When we talked about what happened that weekend, I could understand her frustration. This stranger violated her boundaries. He could have asked to borrow a cigarette lighter without sticking his head into her car window. But, for the first time, I heard her say those dreaded word: "those people. . . ."

Not so long ago, she and a group of friends were hanging out in New Orleans. She drank. Later, she saw a black man and small child, and said something that in her intoxicated state seemed funny. However, the man did not think it was so funny. And insults flew.

The point of this tale is to show the evolution of racism. I have tried to give validity to Deidre's perspective, and her perspective is valid. But there is a whole other side to this argument. What kind of experiences had her dorm mates had with Whites that fueled their prejudices? (Deidre looks more White than Asian, and is often classified as "White.") And this massive group of students who gathered on the Coast for two summers came to our towns after being fed lines and tales about how "racist" Mississippi is. But this poor man in New Orleans who was minding his own business, did he walk away from that encounter with my best friend thinking, "those people. . ..", because of seemingly unconnected encounters in his past?

We all have negative experiences. But when we allow those experiences to cloud our perspective on a whole group of people, then we need to worry. Racism--bigotry of any kind-- is a process.

Incidentally, I have been on the receiving end of racism from both Blacks and Whites. I don't see any side as being more racist than another. It's all different shades of the same disease.

Bravo, plutokairos! Your post is probably one of the most honest, dignified, and concise posts in this debate of Are Blacks More Racist Than Whites?




The answer to the question Are Blacks More Racist Than Whites? for debate is unknowable and thus, other than for venting purposes, is an example of the definition of futility=uselessness as a consequence of having no practical result.

IMO-the injustices and accomplishments can be blamed and touted not just between blacks and whites, but among all races-who at one time or another-have experienced racism.

Edited to answer Hugo's question:



Until credible studies are performed (and you might question the whys or wherefores they haven't been. Or provide the links to such studies.) IMO...in addition to an exercise in venting, it is an exercise in futility. Until such a time that credible studies are evident, I can't honestly answer the question for debate, but can stand by my opinion: the injustices and accomplishments can be blamed and touted not just between blacks and whites, but among all races-who at one time or another-have experienced racism.

Why is it unknowable? Why can't studies be done to compare racist attitudes between different racial groups? I see no reason it can't be done. I am sure no study could come to a conclusion everyone would agree with due to the subjectivity of racism. This is true of many issues in the political arena. This does not mean it is not a legitimate question to debate.

brightest blessings to all!!
i was perusing this inflammatory chat forum the other day, and i happened across a "bikerdad" with the following remark:

Since my standard for racism is ATTITUDE, I don't have to provide evidence that NOI has acted violently, their words are enough to establish their racist credentials. As for the Black Panthers, just read David Horowitz's experiences with them, and the Clarence Thomas article referenced in another thread.


i am wondering, do the other people on this forum define racism as a psychological property of individuals, as a shorthand description of the collective institutional arrangements called 'society', or a some combination of both?

i understand that, in america anyways, the dominant mainstream discourse has transformed the original meaning of this word.....

for me, personally (in case u were wondering), racism (now popularly seen as a matter of attitude or personality) is less adequate to describe our social order - i think the term 'white supremacy' is more to the point. given certain undeniable mainstream social scientific statistics, it seems that those classified as white, as a GROUP, still hold disproportionate economic, political, and social power in this country - and must be forced, through collective action, to democratize these properties.


ps: bikerdad, if u are reading this, i wanted to address something: i distinguish between prejudice (a belief in someone's head or an attitude in the personality) from discrimination (a real action in the social world with measurable results).