I've heard some talk in this forum about the hyprocrisy in the enforcement of UN Policy when it comes to Israel and Iraq. One of the strongest arguments favoring an invasion of Iraq is based on their violations of UN Security Council Resolutions.

If that is the case, we must consider the violations made by Israel in respect to UN Security Council Resolution 242 from November 22, 1967. In this instance, Israel was ordered to leave the territories it occupied during the Six Day War that began earlier that June. I found a map that shows Israel before and after 1967. As you will see from this map, Israel has not yet left the occupied territories and therefore are in violation of this resolution.

The dilemma is exposed. What should the UN do about Israel?

Israel has constantly ignored international alarm at its expasionist policy.
Israel has also ignored American wishes.

Israel is arrogant, self centred and will do whatever it wants knowing America will not, or cannot, stop it.
All this from a nation who extracted shame from us because of the 'holocaust'.

The root cause of the problem is Israeli incursions into Palastinian territory, namely 'Kibbutzing'.
These are defended by the power of the Israeli army against a nation who has no army.

Palastine appealed to the UN and the international community condemmed it but were powerless to do more than that because Israel was Americas buddy.
Their appeal to America fell on deaf ears because Israel is Americas buddy.

Palastine made isolated attacks on Israeli settlements.
Israel responded by military attacks within Palastine under the excuse of terrorism.
Palastinians responded with the only resource they had...suicide bombings.
Israel undertook a series of massive retaliations against Palastinian townships in a process that could be akin to 'ethnic cleansing' and some of them were bordering on 'war crimes'.
Mr. Bush's stupid declarations on terrorisms only allow Israel to go for it.
And so it goes on.

Unless it is stopped, and ONLY America can do this, there will never be peace between them, or for that matter the Middle East.

Is America governed by its elected administration, or its powerfull ethnically driven few?.

Shut off the tap if you dare.
Be the democratic World police in favour of peace and the World will forever love you.

Regards...........Alan

I think we can all agree suicide bombing on CIVILIANS are not acceptable methods of retaliation.

Israel, however, has much to answer for, and investigations should be held to make sure that:
1. Israel does not target unarmed civilians.
2. Negotiations towards a Palestinian state start, soon.
America is not taking all the measures possible to acheive this, but it's hard to sympathize with known terrorists.

Israel does not CLAIM to target civillians but just 2 months ago a 12 year old boy was shot dead while going to the store to buy smokes.
Tanks have shelled homes that Israel has said belonged to terrorists but upon futher independent investigations there was nothing to support these claims.

A few weeks ago a suicide bomber ended "six weeks of silenence" but during that "silence" 19 Palestinians were killed by Israelis. Many of which were children.

They continuously ignore us and we continuously support them. IT'S TIME WE STOPPED. It's impossible though, our government has been hijacked by people that are more concerned with Israel than they are with America.

Help! Help! Send the UN liberation force to Washinton DC we've been overrun.

The most recent example of the many atrocities that Must be added to the list of Israeli war crimes.
The missile attack on a packed Palastinian enclave SUSPECTED of harbouring bomb making materials.
As an occupying army why the hell didnt they move troops in and search the place?, they've done it before.
The last body count I heard was 13 killed, many of them women and small children, and at least 100 injured, including babies and women.

The deliberate bulldozing of areas of Palastinian townships is an unforgivable act, even to an occupying army.

Israel appears to have learnt well from the Nazi's.
They are even in the process of creating a new 'Holocaust' with their ethnic cleansing approach.

I cannot condone terrorism in any shape or form and I believe the Israelis are practising their own convoluted style of terrorism.

They are completely out of control knowing NO ONE will stop them.
This is the good ally that the American administration supplies and appears to condone by doing NOTHING.
So it appears that by default it is the way the Administration will wage war.

Heaven help us all.

Regards...Alan

Actually I am compelled by my religion to oppose anything. I just think that Israel has the right. Israel might have bombed the place because they probley thought that it was over run with terrorist. if it was alot of terriorist then the terriorist can bomb the place and kill the army of israel, i am disguested that palestine has burned the american flag. You also have to agree, that palestine has been doing war crines like israel. Palestine has killed innpcent civilians even if they do claim it was "a false thing" then i dont believe him. I dont believe that israel has done too much war crimes, but palestine has done more than 5,000... thanks to the al-awusa marters brediage

Juber-I'm a little confused, exactly what are you not suppossed to oppose because of your religion?

As for the crimes of the Palestinians, show me a UN Resolution against anything they've done and I'll support it's enforcement. I'm all for equal enforcement of all resolutions or the abolishment of the resolutions altogether.

A little website well worth reading containing one mans commentary concerning Israels objectives regarding the Palastinians.

http://yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=528




Regards.....Alan

I am an baptist. And its really nbot against it. the verus reads like this. "blessed be the nation whos god is the lord." and god was born n israel. I just think palestine should just create a new country

And where do you propose that they go?

Cyan.

Palastine WAS created.
Their big gripe is that Israel is settling in their territory and using force to defend it.

How do you see that?.

Regards.......Alan

Alan, I am totally against Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories.

Cyan.

It is the bottom line in the problem.

Israel WILL NOT give up the kibbutzes,and palestinian territory, occupied and held by force despite world opinion.

How would it be if someone moved into your backyard and, despite asking for help they didn't go away and no one listened to you.

I despise terrorism in any form.
I distrust American administrations allowing Israel to do whatever they want.
What sort of self proclaimed 'World Police Force' is that.


Regards....Alan

Israel is right. The Arabs are wrong. That's the bottom line. And no bunch of jumped-up cannibals like Kofi Annan and the Third World toilet bowls of the UN are going to change my opinion. The quicker the US leaves that benighted organization, and boots it off of American soil, never to return, the happier I and millions of other Americans will be.

Israel was attacked by the Arabs. Israel won, gaining territory. Winning and losing should matter. Israel gets to keep the territory. If the Arabs don't like it they should leave. It is and has always been the Arabs who have chosen war, primarily as a means of deflecting their public's anger from their incompetent regimes. If the Arabs lose lives in those wars, their own governments see it as population control. Thus, the only way to impress upon Arab governments that they should not engage in war is to punish them by grabbing and holding territory.

I'm no isolationist or unilateralist. There is a great need for international cooperation by serious nations. If we were to have an organization that comprised the US, the PRC, India, Brazil, Germany, Britain, Russia and Japan, and nobody else, a lot more serious discussion would get done. Nations like Canada, Sweden and Australia, much less Tuvalu, Uganda, or the Maldives have nothing to offer. It could create some updated version of the Congress system that maintained European peace for a century.

corgi - did you mean that in a philosophical sense? As current UN resolutions stand, Israel is wrong. If Israel felt they had won the territory fair and square in 1967, then they should have withdrawn from the UN and refused to recognize their authority. They have not yet done so and therefore are in violation of UN resolutions.

As for the UN debate itself, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts in the Should We Ditch the UN debate.

I'll let Alan take care of the "exclude Australia" comments...

I'd hope you'd notice that I do not care what the UN has to say about anything.



Agreed. Israel should quit the UN and so should we.

Alan, I don't know if you misinterpreted my first post or not, but I'm on exactly the same page as you. I have a severe problem with the actions of the Israeli government. My question was directed at juber3 who believes that the Palestinians should leave the state of Israel. I think that's completely wrong.

corgi - the issue is not whether or not we agree with the UN. Frankly, I think they are as inept and useless as the League of Nations was. The problem is that they do exist and they expect to be dealt with.

"Dealing" can mean one of three things: 1) accepting the UN resolutions as law and just letting them lie unenforced; OR 2) accepting the UN resolutions as law and forcing their enforcement; OR 3) Withdraw participation from the UN.

Just because we say or Israel says we don't like the UN or we don't want to follow it, doesn't automatically make it so.

Cyan.

My apologies.

Regards..Alan

Corgi.

It's good to see that the art of 'one eyedness' is alive and kicking.

Just maybe some of the nations regarded as worthless contributers can offer some even handed sense to the UN.
Some of the countrys you mention in your hit list have fought, and died, alongside Americans in past wars when they were asked.

A fine way to treat friends, use them then dump them.

Regards.....Alan

PS....Look up the word BIGOT in the dictionary.

Nations that pay no price like Canada or Australia have nothing to say. The explosives went off in Bali because Australia is understood to be a wimpy nation today, a far cry from what it was in the World Wars. That has been the case ever since the ascension of Gough Whitlam in the 60s. Canada is no friend. It provided refuge to the draft dodgers and deserters during Vietnam and its attitude in the war against the Nazis was ambiguous at best, as Quebec was not subject to conscription as most Quebecois were pro-Nazi.

Sweden which allowed its territory to be used as a transit point for Nazis invading Norway and sold munitions to the Nazis throughout the war, and later was a home for draft evaders and deserters from the US in the Vietnam War, is even less deserving of being listened to.

I've read some of your posts. It is precisely the girlymen losers like you who do not deserve to be called Australian if that is some reference to WWII 'diggers' or WWI 'ANZACS', who have dumped us, not America that has dumped your nation. Why don't you just shut up and go back to molesting the Abbos and the 'roos?

Look up 'IDIOT' in the dictionary and it will have 'YEAH, YOU' for a definition.

Corgi - since you're new, you get a warning. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ON MEMBERS. You may attack their arguments all day. DO NOT call anyone names here. Thank you.
---
And, Alan, that bigot comment is as close as you've come to name calling. You know better.

Jaime

Consider this:

What if Isreal DID withdraw to its pre-1967 borders. Lets pretend for a moment, that they pulled their all of their troops and weapons from the area, and lets say they did NOT take military action under any circumstances. So, Isreal is now living only within it's UN sanctioned borders, only within the official state that is Isreal

My question to you is this:

"Would the palestinians leave Isreal alone?" Would groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad cease with their suicide bombings? Would Isreals retreat fix everything? Would peace return to the land if Isreal did everything that everyone has requested of them?

No, of course not. Because groups like Hamas don't even care about a Palestinian state. They care only for the total destruction of Isreal. This is fact, they have said this is public statements before. I'll try to find a link if it's requested of me.

knowing this, Isreal has little choice but to do what she is doing ...

--cheers

Jaime.

You are right.......apologies for the aberration.
It reminded me of one of our long lost friends.

DP.

Dont forget the root cause of the problem.......removal of forced settlements.

Regards...Alan

Alan,

If you think that is the root of the problem you are as blind as blind can be.

Darcaine

Darcaine.

The Middle East Conflict has its roots way back during WW2.
I suggest you read the timeline on this website to see how convoluted the situation is.
http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm

From around 1960 to present the Israelis have persued a policy of expansionism, either by conquest or settlement.
Any peace agreements, and withdrawels, endorsed by them have NOT included dismantlement of existing settlements on what the Palastinians see as their soverign territory.

Read it for yourself.

Regards...Alan

Sir,

Palestine was NEVER A COUNTRY! Have you learned NOTHING in history class? How the hell can you have something back that never was?

Darcaine

Darcaine.

I STRONGLY suggest you read these articles carefully.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

I realise the delarations come from the UN (including America) and has no meaning to you.

You may find that of the two countries Israel has the least right to be there.

Regards..Alan

Alan,

Good piece to read, however, I don't see ANYWHERE where it shows Israel as the one being attacked...interesting to say the least and a little disturbing. Ommition, by default is basically lying.

Darcaine

The simple fact is that the Jewish immigrants to the region bought the land from the end of the 19th century to the 1948 declaration. The Jewish National Fund was created specifically for that purpose. They bought the land from its owners who were absentee landlords from Istanbul, Damascus and Cairo. Any intelligent investigation of land tenure of the region such as was done in From Time Immemorial will show that.

As for the so-called Palestinians, they should be booted out of all Israeli property including Judea, Samaria, Gaza, Jerusalem and the Golan. That's what happens when you start a war and then lose. Just ask the millions of Germans who lived in Eastern Europe until 1945. The equities are even more in favor of the Israelis when one considers the forced expulsion of over 1 million Mizrahi and Sephardi Jews from the Arab World during the 40s, 50s and 60s. Since the Arab nations are all dictatorships which use hostility against Israel as a means to divert their citizenry's attention from their horrible conditions and view casualties in war as a means of population control, the only means of deterring further Arab aggression is for Israel to take and hold their territory in perpetuity once attacked.

It doesn't matter what the UN says. It doesn't matter what Third World garbage can countries that dominate the UN say. And it certainly doesn't matter what the hard left in ########## countries like Australia has to say about anything.

Darcaine.

If you read some of the addendas you will find references to Palastinian attacks.

The point is that Palastine is a self governing country and Israel has deliberately persued a policy of settling their land.
Not only that but they have systematically destroyed the Palastinian infrastructure.

Regards.....Alan

You are joking aren't you? Palestine is NOT even a country? Can you understand?

Darcaine

I'm pretty neutral on this whole issue. Frankly, I liked the idea Alan mentioned of fencing off the whole area and letting 'em duke it out

I must remain open minded on the whole issue bacause it is an old one. I have just not studied it enough to understand the millennia-old conflict(s).

In regards to the recent issues (meaning 20th century), I've read the UN Resolution requiring Israel to leave the territories it occupied in 1967. I've also read Alan's links supporting this. I haven't read much supporting Israel.

Darcaine, if it's not too much trouble, I'd like to read more information supporting your position, that Israel has the right to be in the occupied territories. I appreciate any help you can offer in that respect. Thanks.

So mote it be. Great perspective and history on that area of the world.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mf1.html

Darcaine

Darcaine.

Within this site read the highlighted 'inalienable rights' portion nearing the end.
It reads..............

United Nations General Assembly.

Article A/RES/3236 (XXIX) 22 November 1974.
1. Reaffims the inalienable rights of the Palastinian people in Palastine including.
(a). The right to self-determination without external interference.
(. The right to national independance and sovereignty.

The same basic type of wording was issued when Israel became recognised.

It has been Israels policy to destroy Palastinian political infrastructure and infringe Palastinian sovereignty.
An occupied country is governed by the laws of the occupier.

I have read the articles in the site you offered.
Very well put from the Jewish side.
Dr. Mitchell G Bard, the originator and director of this site ( Jewish Virtual Library) is also Executive Director of the 'American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise.

I am afraid I see them as more than a little biased, as expected.
The same can be said of Palastinian sites I have read.

Regards........Alan

The reason the Palastinian side has no merit is the mere fact they condone the brutal slaughter of civilians. Why should I respect anyone or anything that does that? You idealism is way ahead of reality my friend. These people HATE each other so much they do this stuff. I say let them fight it to the end...enough of the pampering..if they want war let them have full war.

Darcaine

Darcaine.

No mate.
My reality tells me that Israel is using the cloak of terrorism to persue its own brand of military terrorism ON CIVILLIANS , and for its own ends, as are the Palastinians for their own ends.

I cannot condone terrorism in any form, Palastinian or Israeli.

Just because it is done by an organised military makes it no better, in fact worse to my way of thinking because it then becomes the rules of warefare.

But what do you do?.
Allow the military might of Israel to take over Palastinian territory and throw them all out?.
Or accept the fact that all the Palastinians have is suicide bombers and WILL use them?.

I agree they hate each other so much that anyone who tries to fix it will get slapped by both sides.

If they BOTH had armed forces..........GO FOR IT, sort it out yourselves.

My suggestion is this.

Withdraw ALL support, arms finance etc, from Israel until they run out of money.

Force the Oil companys to open up the oil reserves in the Caspian Sea and other resources in eastern Europe and N. America.

Put up with the HARD times in between in order to break the oil cartel and multinationals. This is a difficult one for polititions who only see one from election to the other.

Give due notice to the surrounding Arab states that any interference will have dire concequences ( no longer dependant on their oil supplies ).

Difficult, but possible, with plenty of purse string pulling in between for us all.

Regards.........Alan

You apparently have no idea what Israel's economy is...they will pretty much wipe the floor with their neighbors. Do we really want a blood bath? Your definition is for no one to fight back at people who would harm you and yours. I wonder if you would be so high and mighty if your relatives got blown away for just going to the store. You have been spoon fed propaganda Alan by people that would love you and me to die.

Darcaine

Darcaine.

I have no idea which of the words I wrote brought you to this conclusion.
The synopsis of what I said is that they are both using the tools at their disposal for terrorism.
Palastinian human bombs.
Israel with their military.

As for the ' I wonder if you would be so high and mighty if your relatives got blown away for just going to the store'.
I feel sure the Palastinians would love it if Israel left them a store to go to.
And.
Plenty of them have been shot for doing just that.
They are as bad as each other in this respect.

Finally in reply to the comment regarding spoons and propaganda.
It is always best to keep the eyes open so you can see whats on the spoon before someone feeds it to you.

Regards.......Alan

A few of sites worth looking at regarding 'Americas best freind'.

http://real-info.1accesshost.com/janes1.html
Janes is a well respected international organisation.

Is this true?.
http://women.stormfront.org/symbols/Koshertax.html

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/proof.htm
Some VERY interesting recorded statements in here.

Regards........Alan

You miss the point so much Alan. You ONLY look at final action..someone getting shot or dying. You never look at the WHY or HOW.

Here is Alan's way of looking at things.

1. Thief Breaks into your house shoots your familly dead.

2. Thief breaks into your house you shoot him first.

In Alan's mind you are both just as guilty for killing. Nevermind, the differences in circumstance or what lead up to the shooting. The results are the same.

Alan, I look at the spoon and the spoon holder. AND I asked why they are feeding me.

Darcaine

Darcaine.

A reasonable analagy.

Yes, in both instances the guilt of killing occured in my mind.
Lets put names to them.

1. Israel (theif) breaks into Palastines home territory ( illegal settlements) and uses extreme force to keep them.
2. Israel (theif) breaks into Palastines home territory but the owners shoot them first.

The home owner has the right to defend himself in both your analagy and my version.

The question is this.
Who is the perpetrator of the crime?.
Those who initialised it or those who react to it?.

Your final statement regarding the spoon is quite right.
Look at who is feeding it to us and ask why.
More importantly dont take the spoon holders word for it, find out the truth yourself before you swallow it.

America CAN create world peace, it is a peacefull nation by it's constitution.
There are those in high places that see otherwise and warp the freedom and equality you stand for.
7% of the population influences the media, finance and foreign diplomacy.

Please check this yourself ( dont take the spoon holders word for it ).

It is ONLY because of the above I distrust the Administrations descisions.

Regards...Alan

Alan,

Here is a little history for ya on the land in dispute.

http://www.adl.org/ISRAEL/Record/67War.asp

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to199...territories.php

Darcaine

Darcaine.

Makes good reading.
The only problem is that both sites are run by ADL.
Anti Deformation League.

This is a PRO Israeli group who's prime intent is to make us believe they are right and to spread their word.
There are plenty of Arab sites that do the same.

If you find anything factual and un-biased on the web I would be pleased to read it.

Regards to you.........Alan.

corgi: I find your message(#19) quite offensive given that Canadians were killed in the World Trade Center, most of the planes that were grounded that were over the Atlantic Ocean were grounded in Gander, as well as the rest of Atlantic Canada including my home city of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Then there are the soldiers we sent alongside yours to Afghanistan, in particular the four soldiers who died at the hands of one of your reserve pilots in a friendly fire incident. I'd say we paid a price even if you would not.

Alan Wood: Unfortunately finding anything factual and unbiased it is rather difficult owing in no small part to the fierceness of each side's partisans in attacking anything that does not support their agenda/belief. I would point this much out in regards to what has been going on in the occupied territories. Israel has repeatedly blocked any attempt to place international peacekeepers or even observers in either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. Then there is the fact that whenever any incident dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict occurs over the past year to two years there are many representatives of the Israeli government all over Western media making sure that their side of things is well known, yet it is becoming increasingly rare to hear anything from any Palestinian officials even via phone, this is due primarily because of the Israeli military ( under orders from its government) refuses access to Western media of members to any of the occupied territory without escort/chaperones. This makes it increasingly difficult to have any real balance in coverage of these incidents.

Then there is the point that has been raised earlier by others, namely that actions that Israel is taking in the name of fighting " terrorism " are completely legitimate and any civilian casualties are regrettable but not the fault of the I D F. Let's also not forget the fact that the Israeli government sees nothing wrong with sending assassins under false passports( Canadian in particular) to kill those that it suspects/believes is a threat to them in foreign countries. Israel also has significant mechanized armor, air power in both helicopters and jet fighters, and access to advanced munitions. The Palestinians have access to grenades, mortars, machine guns, and basic level explosives. This is not a level playing field and therefore the only type of warfare that even has a hope of being successful for the Palestinians is asymmetric warfare. I also find it a sad irony that back in the late 1940's the Zionist movement helped create the state of Israel by driving the British out of the region by use of, wait for it, terrorist actions such as bombing hotels. I do not like terrorism in any form, but between the Palestinians and the Israelis I am forced to reluctantly concede that the Palestinians at least have no other means of any effective resistance, whereas the Israelis have a far greater range of options in terms of use of force, as well as various types of force available.

I am certain that what I have just written is going to cause some degree of upset. I wish to add one final point, namely that I am neither Jewish or Palestinian/Arabic in background. I have no personal interest in this conflict either way, I am however becoming increasingly disturbed and distressed by the events of the past several years. I have become increasingly distressed at a tendency in North American mainstream media to take the assertions made by the Israeli government in regards to what is going on in the West Bank and Gaza with out any real degree of skepticism/questioning, especially given the difficulties the Israeli government has created to prevent any timely response by a Palestinian official. Given that one of the prime reasons Israel is such a committed ally of the U.S. is that Israel is a democratic country with similar beliefs such as freedom of speech and expression I would have thought such information repression on their behalf would have caused some response from the North American/Western media. Well, I guess I had best wrap this message up, I hadn't meant to go on this much. Sorry about that.

corgi: I find your message(#19) quite offensive given that Canadians were killed in the World Trade Center, most of the planes that were grounded that were over the Atlantic Ocean were grounded in Gander, as well as the rest of Atlantic Canada including my home city of Halifax, Nova Scotia. Then there are the soldiers we sent alongside yours to Afghanistan, in particular the four soldiers who died at the hands of one of your reserve pilots in a friendly fire incident. I'd say we paid a price even if you would not.

Alan Wood: Unfortunately finding anything factual and unbiased it is rather difficult owing in no small part to the fierceness of each side's partisans in attacking anything that does not support their agenda/belief. I would point this much out in regards to what has been going on in the occupied territories. Israel has repeatedly blocked any attempt to place international peacekeepers or even observers in either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. Then there is the fact that whenever any incident dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict occurs over the past year to two years there are many representatives of the Israeli government all over Western media making sure that their side of things is well known, yet it is becoming increasingly rare to hear anything from any Palestinian officials even via phone, this is due primarily because of the Israeli military ( under orders from its government) refuses access to Western media of members to any of the occupied territory without escort/chaperones. This makes it increasingly difficult to have any real balance in coverage of these incidents.

Then there is the point that has been raised earlier by others, namely that actions that Israel is taking in the name of fighting " terrorism " are completely legitimate and any civilian casualties are regrettable but not the fault of the I D F. Let's also not forget the fact that the Israeli government sees nothing wrong with sending assassins under false passports( Canadian in particular) to kill those that it suspects/believes is a threat to them in foreign countries. Israel also has significant mechanized armor, air power in both helicopters and jet fighters, and access to advanced munitions. The Palestinians have access to grenades, mortars, machine guns, and basic level explosives. This is not a level playing field and therefore the only type of warfare that even has a hope of being successful for the Palestinians is asymmetric warfare. I also find it a sad irony that back in the late 1940's the Zionist movement helped create the state of Israel by driving the British out of the region by use of, wait for it, terrorist actions such as bombing hotels. I do not like terrorism in any form, but between the Palestinians and the Israelis I am forced to reluctantly concede that the Palestinians at least have no other means of any effective resistance, whereas the Israelis have a far greater range of options in terms of use of force, as well as various types of force available.

I am certain that what I have just written is going to cause some degree of upset. I wish to add one final point, namely that I am neither Jewish or Palestinian/Arabic in background. I have no personal interest in this conflict either way, I am however becoming increasingly disturbed and distressed by the events of the past several years. I have become increasingly distressed at a tendency in North American mainstream media to take the assertions made by the Israeli government in regards to what is going on in the West Bank and Gaza with out any real degree of skepticism/questioning, especially given the difficulties the Israeli government has created to prevent any timely response by a Palestinian official. Given that one of the prime reasons Israel is such a committed ally of the U.S. is that Israel is a democratic country with similar beliefs such as freedom of speech and expression I would have thought such information repression on their behalf would have caused some response from the North American/Western media. Well, I guess I had best wrap this message up, I hadn't meant to go on this much. Sorry about that.

It is interesting to note that during the 1940's, before the creation of the state of Israel, Avraham Stern (a Zionist) created an underground terrorist faction called 'Irgun' but more commonly known to the British as the 'Stern' gang.
The sole intention of this gang was to force the British out by acts of terrorism, bombings and assassinations which they did with their usual zealousness.
Ben-Gurion did nothing to stop them until after the state was founded and then disbanded them.
None of the killers were ever brought to justice, in fact there are some streets named after them and some of the members became ministers in the new government.
The Israelis prefer this period to be called 'fighting for freedom'.

My father was in Palastine around this time serving in the army.
He tells me the troops were abused, pelted with stones and shot at by
Jews, the very people they were there to protect.
He lost friends to the terrorism.

To this day he cannot understand the Israeli mentality.
Nor can I.


Regards..........Alan

Ah, this explains much. I hope you can see past your biased nature and see that there is much to learn.

Darcaine

Darcaine.

As usual you are entirely missing the points from both DCM and myself.

The state of Israel was formed with the help of terrorism.
Bombings and assassinations took place killing innocent civilians, polititions and British troops who they saw as 'getting in the way' of their objectives.
They even assassinated their own polititions who they felt were acting not in the interest of zionism.
NOT one of the terrorists were ever tried by court and, as I found out, some even became ministers in the new Israel.

My questions to you are these.......
1...How can they justify what they are doing to the Palastinians in the name of 'counter terrorist' reprisals?.

2...What is the difference between what the Jews did back then and what the Palastinians are doing now?.

Ahh, your reply explains much. I hope you can see your present biased nature and see there is much to learn.
[I]

Alan..did you even READ what DCM put up?

1. The Palestinians are allowing the murder of children. Then they are housing them and protecting them (terrorists).

2. Uh, mabe you haven't learned but I haven't heard of Jews strapping bombs on themselves and bombing children. And your history is replete with false statements ans accusations. Here is some good reading..enjoy.


"The King David Hotel was the site of the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. The Irgun chose it as a target after British troops invaded the Jewish Agency June 29, 1946, and confiscated large quantities of documents. At about the same time, more than 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. The information about Jewish Agency operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries, was taken to the King David Hotel. "

hmmm a military target?

Ahh, this reply explains much. I hope you can see your biased nature and see there is much to learn... if you can read through your biasness.

Darcaine