Full Version: Why is Islam against the U.S?
Why does it seem that islam holds such a negative outlook towards the u.s, and vice versa i guess.
All views would be great, for it makes it a good debate.
All views would be great, for it makes it a good debate.
QUOTE(nileriver @ Jul 23 2003, 12:16 AM)
Why does it seem that islam holds such a negative outlook towards the u.s, and vice versa i guess.
All views would be great, for it makes it a good debate.
All views would be great, for it makes it a good debate.
It doesn't. Do you have a link that says it does?
Some militant Islamic extremists are anti-Western, including anti-US. If you want to ask why they have a negative view, then maybe the debate can begin...
well, thats not true entirely, i viewed a show, during this show a jornalist was asking youth at a local school, all english speakers, on why the u.s is percieved in the fashion it is. These kids, went into detail on it. Its not a view just held by some radical terrorists, i dont think those just spawn from nothing at anyrate either. If you just want to debate the radical islam side of it that is fine by me.
QUOTE(nileriver @ Jul 23 2003, 12:29 AM)
well, thats not true entirely, i viewed a show, during this show a jornalist was asking youth at a local school, all english speakers, on why the u.s is percieved in the fashion it is. These kids, went into detail on it. Its not a view just held by some radical terrorists, i dont think those just spawn from nothing at anyrate either. If you just want to debate the radical islam side of it that is fine by me.
What country were they in?
OK, I will indulge...
Almost every single Islamic country is a dictatorship of some form. There is no freedom of expression, there is no freedom of thought. The people are taught exactly what the government wants them to learn. In many of these countries, if the internet is allowed, then there are banned sites where you go to prison for viewing them.
In these dictatorships, where the economic distribution is so much more skewed than even the evil US, the only thing keeping the unwashed masses from rising up and ousting their dictators is their government spoon-fed hatred of certain groups outside of their country. The object of this hatred is usually Israel. In some places, it is Israel and the Zionist US which allows Israel to defy the will of Allah.
The government's idea is that if they can focus the hatred of the masses on someone (anyone) outside of their country, then their personal excesses and the economic iniquity will be overlooked. The same thing happened in Nazi Germany, where Hitler focused the hatred of his populace on the Jews, Christians, Communists, whoever. (Pretty much all non-Arians).
The problem with this approach is that people can see through the veil of lies eventually. The US has tried to disseminate positive information to these countries. The people cannot live in total ignorance and abject poverty forever. People in the more free (hence, more educated) Islamic countries tend to be pro-America. They see us as a model of economic and religious freedom.
Islam doesn't hate us, but certain muslims do, many of them. When I see Palestinian kids watching Al Jezeera, being given history books that portray us as a corrupt, hedonistic, spiritually weak villain with all the power, it does a lot to remove the mystery for me. The muslim leaders that hate us often do mostly because of perceived financial inequities, our advocation of tolerating dissent, and our unwavering support for Israel. Muslim citizens that hate us usually do because we seem to have all the wealth, we promote moral subjectivity, and again, we support Israel.
I dont remember the country and or city the students were in, i do remeber the women were allowed to have exsposed faces, but they did where something that looked traditonal as did the males. The main point in there talks with the openly jewish reporter had it like this, that to them, america holds islam, and its people as less then human, and seems to have no real care or respect for them. That was the main point, the reporter later went on that popular news station al jazeera or what not, and held a debate with someone, this debate did not get very far, as contempt was evident right off the bat at the side of the islamic person, but none of the hate seemed to me because of the fact the reporter was jewish. Though i do know that palinstine is a big issue in why the youth think the u.s cares not for muslim people, as it was a point, but at no time did the youth lose calm or get angry with the man. Did anyone read the links i have posted so far. There is so much to the history side of it, as islam was once the most pwerful, at least to them, and the crusades and such all play into a view of the u.s.
I agree with amlord wholeheartedly on this one.
Certain Muslim countries (most specifically those in the Middle East) teach hatred for other religions, ideologies, and ways of life through government, schools, and other formats. Schools are used as an indoctrination tool in many instances, teaching about what should be believed and teaching that if those things are not believed, you are not a "good Muslim", etc.
Sweeping generalizations are oft made by ignorant (and I use this term only to emphasize the lack of knowledge/understanding on this specific topic, not as deregatory) Westerners who think Islam in and of itself is a religion based upon hate. Just as the KKK and other hate groups have used their own interpretations of the Bible as justification for their actions, Muslim "extremist" groups have done the same with the Qu'ran. I took some classes on Islam in college and NO WHERE in the Qu'ran do I recall anything about hating others or causing harm to others who are not Muslim (as many of the extremist groups have claimed). The "problem" (and I use the term loosely) with Islam and interpretation is that there are three different "parts" of the Qu'ran which sometimes find themselves in conflict (to an extent) - fatwas (or RULES) were (and are) written later by "clerics" based upon their interpretation of the Qu'ran and the prophet Mohammed's words. These fatwas, IMO, are where much of the "problem" lies with respect to interpretation. Fatwas are often contradictory both to the Qu'ran/Mohammed AND eachother. So how does one possibly know what to follow?
Islam itself is hardly against the U.S., however it could be argued that certain groups within the sects of Islam "preach" against certain ideas the U.S. stands for and certain "acts" carried out by the U.S. government - Just like Christianity, there are various sects of Islam, all with varying interpretations of the Qu'ran and how to live life to serve Allah and the "greater good". Sunni and Shi'a are the main sects of Islam. Sunnis make up the vast majority (something like 80-90% wordwide).
Sunni - click on the Sunni Tradition box to read a brief description
Shi'a - click on the Shi'a 7th Century CE box to read a brief description
Sunni vs. Shi'ite - TONS of links explaining each and the differences/similarities.
Other "sub-groups" of those sects:
Ismailism- from Shi'a
Druze - from Shi'a (appears to be largely American)
Sufism - sort of a "cross-section" with overlap in both Sunni and Shi'a - some references say Sufism came out of Sunni, some say it came out of Shi'a?!?!
I think people tend to make assumptions about an entire group of people based upon the most visible few of that group...the generalizations about Muslims and Islam being anti-American are, IMO, based upon what we see and are shown about Muslims/Islam...the same can be said of ANY group - Blacks are lazy, Mexican-Americans can't speak proper English, GLBTs flaunt their "sexuality" by sleeping around, "conservatives" are all devout Christians, "liberals" are "anti-American", and so on and so forth...IMO those sort of generalizations get us nowhere.
That is all
Certain Muslim countries (most specifically those in the Middle East) teach hatred for other religions, ideologies, and ways of life through government, schools, and other formats. Schools are used as an indoctrination tool in many instances, teaching about what should be believed and teaching that if those things are not believed, you are not a "good Muslim", etc.
Sweeping generalizations are oft made by ignorant (and I use this term only to emphasize the lack of knowledge/understanding on this specific topic, not as deregatory) Westerners who think Islam in and of itself is a religion based upon hate. Just as the KKK and other hate groups have used their own interpretations of the Bible as justification for their actions, Muslim "extremist" groups have done the same with the Qu'ran. I took some classes on Islam in college and NO WHERE in the Qu'ran do I recall anything about hating others or causing harm to others who are not Muslim (as many of the extremist groups have claimed). The "problem" (and I use the term loosely) with Islam and interpretation is that there are three different "parts" of the Qu'ran which sometimes find themselves in conflict (to an extent) - fatwas (or RULES) were (and are) written later by "clerics" based upon their interpretation of the Qu'ran and the prophet Mohammed's words. These fatwas, IMO, are where much of the "problem" lies with respect to interpretation. Fatwas are often contradictory both to the Qu'ran/Mohammed AND eachother. So how does one possibly know what to follow?
Islam itself is hardly against the U.S., however it could be argued that certain groups within the sects of Islam "preach" against certain ideas the U.S. stands for and certain "acts" carried out by the U.S. government - Just like Christianity, there are various sects of Islam, all with varying interpretations of the Qu'ran and how to live life to serve Allah and the "greater good". Sunni and Shi'a are the main sects of Islam. Sunnis make up the vast majority (something like 80-90% wordwide).
Sunni - click on the Sunni Tradition box to read a brief description
Shi'a - click on the Shi'a 7th Century CE box to read a brief description
Sunni vs. Shi'ite - TONS of links explaining each and the differences/similarities.
Other "sub-groups" of those sects:
Ismailism- from Shi'a
Druze - from Shi'a (appears to be largely American)
Sufism - sort of a "cross-section" with overlap in both Sunni and Shi'a - some references say Sufism came out of Sunni, some say it came out of Shi'a?!?!
I think people tend to make assumptions about an entire group of people based upon the most visible few of that group...the generalizations about Muslims and Islam being anti-American are, IMO, based upon what we see and are shown about Muslims/Islam...the same can be said of ANY group - Blacks are lazy, Mexican-Americans can't speak proper English, GLBTs flaunt their "sexuality" by sleeping around, "conservatives" are all devout Christians, "liberals" are "anti-American", and so on and so forth...IMO those sort of generalizations get us nowhere.
That is all
QUOTE(nileriver @ Jul 22 2003, 11:16 PM)
Why does it seem that islam holds such a negative outlook towards the u.s, and vice versa i guess.
All views would be great, for it makes it a good debate.
All views would be great, for it makes it a good debate.
I think the main problem lies in the media of the islamic world.
Al-Jazzera, Abu-Dhabi, etc are anti-west and Arab run, so you can't ensure unbias from them.
I was watching a documentry Searching for the roots of 9/11 which basically outlined searching foir the rage that caused 9/11. In one interview of a young egyptian girl, she sees Bush as a bad man who cheated Gore in the 2000 elections because Gore was Jewish (in fact, he's Christian) and she believed the whole 9/11/Israeli employees of the WTC were told not to go to work that day conspiracy because Al-Jazzera & the Egyption state run media said so.
Also, the Islamic world is also in such dire poverty and third world status that the West's technological advances and super economies are a jealous thing of the islamic world because they can't afford the technology or they haven't produced it and the west has, thus causing jealous.
I don't necessarily agree with everything in it, but IMO Bernard Lewis's Roots of Muslim Rage is still one of the best articles written on this subject and should be required reading for anyone trying to propose an alternative theory.
QUOTE(Platypus @ Jul 23 2003, 04:01 PM)
I don't necessarily agree with everything in it, but IMO Bernard Lewis's Roots of Muslim Rage is still one of the best articles written on this subject and should be required reading for anyone trying to propose an alternative theory.
Wow! Thanks so much for posting that! I'd never seen it before and now, having read it, I must say I agree that it is an excellent article on the subject!
Kudos for enlightening all of us
QUOTE(Platypus @ Jul 23 2003, 10:01 AM)
I don't necessarily agree with everything in it, but IMO Bernard Lewis's Roots of Muslim Rage is still one of the best articles written on this subject and should be required reading for anyone trying to propose an alternative theory.
The article gives good background information, but is a little short in identifying where, specifically, the anti-Western (more appropriately, anti-US) feelings come from:
QUOTE
But why the hostility in the first place? If we turn from the general to the specific, there is no lack of individual policies and actions, pursued and taken by individual Western governments, that have aroused the passionate anger of Middle Eastern and other Islamic peoples. Yet all too often, when these policies are abandoned and the problems resolved, there is only a local and temporary alleviation. The French have left Algeria, the British have left Egypt, the Western oil companies have left their oil wells, the westernizing Shah has left Iran -- yet the generalized resentment of the fundamentalists and other extremists against the West and its friends remains and grows and is not appeased.
The cause most frequently adduced for anti-American feeling among Muslims today is American support for Israel. This support is certainly a factor of importance, increasing with nearness and involvement. But here again there are some oddities, difficult to explain in terms of a single, simple cause. In the early days of the foundation of Israel, while the United States maintained a certain distance, the Soviet Union granted immediate de jure recognition and support, and arms sent from a Soviet satellite, Czechoslovakia, saved the infant state of Israel from defeat and death in its first weeks of life. Yet there seems to have been no great ill will toward the Soviets for these policies, and no corresponding good will toward the United States. In 1956 it was the United States that intervened, forcefully and decisively, to secure the withdrawal of Israeli, British, and French forces from Egypt -- yet in the late fifties and sixties it was to the Soviets, not America, that the rulers of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and other states turned for arms; it was with the Soviet bloc that they formed bonds of solidarity at the United Nations and in the world generally. More recently, the rulers of the Islamic Republic of Iran have offered the most principled and uncompromising denunciation of Israel and Zionism. Yet even these leaders, before as well as after the death of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, when they decided for reasons of their own to enter into a dialogue of sorts, found it easier to talk to Jerusalem than to Washington. At the same time, Western hostages in Lebanon, many of them devoted to Arab causes and some of them converts to Islam, are seen and treated by their captors as limbs of the Great Satan.
Another explanation, more often heard from Muslim dissidents, attributes anti-American feeling to American support for hated regimes, seen as reactionary by radicals, as impious by conservatives, as corrupt and tyrannical by both. This accusation has some plausibility, and could help to explain why an essentially inner-directed, often anti-nationalist movement should turn against a foreign power. But it does not suffice, especially since support for such regimes has been limited both in extent and -- as the Shah discovered -- in effectiveness.
Clearly, something deeper is involved than these specific grievances, numerous and important as they may be -- something deeper that turns every disagreement into a problem and makes every problem insoluble.
The cause most frequently adduced for anti-American feeling among Muslims today is American support for Israel. This support is certainly a factor of importance, increasing with nearness and involvement. But here again there are some oddities, difficult to explain in terms of a single, simple cause. In the early days of the foundation of Israel, while the United States maintained a certain distance, the Soviet Union granted immediate de jure recognition and support, and arms sent from a Soviet satellite, Czechoslovakia, saved the infant state of Israel from defeat and death in its first weeks of life. Yet there seems to have been no great ill will toward the Soviets for these policies, and no corresponding good will toward the United States. In 1956 it was the United States that intervened, forcefully and decisively, to secure the withdrawal of Israeli, British, and French forces from Egypt -- yet in the late fifties and sixties it was to the Soviets, not America, that the rulers of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and other states turned for arms; it was with the Soviet bloc that they formed bonds of solidarity at the United Nations and in the world generally. More recently, the rulers of the Islamic Republic of Iran have offered the most principled and uncompromising denunciation of Israel and Zionism. Yet even these leaders, before as well as after the death of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, when they decided for reasons of their own to enter into a dialogue of sorts, found it easier to talk to Jerusalem than to Washington. At the same time, Western hostages in Lebanon, many of them devoted to Arab causes and some of them converts to Islam, are seen and treated by their captors as limbs of the Great Satan.
Another explanation, more often heard from Muslim dissidents, attributes anti-American feeling to American support for hated regimes, seen as reactionary by radicals, as impious by conservatives, as corrupt and tyrannical by both. This accusation has some plausibility, and could help to explain why an essentially inner-directed, often anti-nationalist movement should turn against a foreign power. But it does not suffice, especially since support for such regimes has been limited both in extent and -- as the Shah discovered -- in effectiveness.
Clearly, something deeper is involved than these specific grievances, numerous and important as they may be -- something deeper that turns every disagreement into a problem and makes every problem insoluble.
He says it is "something deeper" which hardly satisfies me. He gives reasons why the Muslims should have, at certain points, embraced the US over, let's say, the Soviets. But they chose not to.
I think this article is good for historical background, but certainly does not pinpoint the exact reasonings (if any can be given) for anti-US sentiments.
QUOTE(Amlord @ Jul 23 2003, 08:04 PM)
The article gives good background information, but is a little short in identifying where, specifically, the anti-Western (more appropriately, anti-US) feelings come from...He says it is "something deeper" which hardly satisfies me. He gives reasons why the Muslims should have, at certain points, embraced the US over, let's say, the Soviets. But they chose not to...I think this article is good for historical background, but certainly does not pinpoint the exact reasonings (if any can be given) for anti-US sentiments.
I just lost a nice decent sized post because my internet poo-poo down mid-transfer - UGH!
Anyway, amlord, I was just stating that I completely agree with your post about how it left you wondering what specific reasons for the anti-US feelings of Mulsim extremists/hate groups. Specifically, I was thinking "hmmmmm" after reading this:
QUOTE
The cause most frequently adduced for anti-American feeling among Muslims today is American support for Israel. This support is certainly a factor of importance, increasing with nearness and involvement. But here again there are some oddities, difficult to explain in terms of a single, simple cause. In the early days of the foundation of Israel, while the United States maintained a certain distance, the Soviet Union granted immediate de jure recognition and support, and arms sent from a Soviet satellite, Czechoslovakia, saved the infant state of Israel from defeat and death in its first weeks of life. Yet there seems to have been no great ill will toward the Soviets for these policies, and no corresponding good will toward the United States.
Okay so what is the reason then? I guess since I was so impressed with the seemingly "balanced" nature of the article, I didn't mind the open-endedness and sort of "dodging the question" in the last four paragraphs
But another thing that just popped into my head while typing the above...maybe because there are so few balanced articles/discussions (as subjective as humanly possible might be a better way to describe it), he feels the need to not speculate for fear of him coming across as taking sides? I don't know, just a random thought?!?! It seems neither side will take the other seriously if there is too much "blaming" or "speculation" going on, KWIM? But then why bother asking the "why" question if you're not going to answer it with more than two very broad and seemingly obvious answers without any further discussion on the "whys" of the "why"...
Belgian internet access for military housing stinks - I get kicked off constantly and it's SO annoying. Oh well...I usually copy anything I'm about to post on any forum for that reason, but forgot this time and viola! I get the boot - GRRRRRR
QUOTE
I took some classes on Islam in college and NO WHERE in the Qu'ran do I recall anything about hating others or causing harm to others who are not Muslim (as many of the extremist groups have claimed).
For your consideration:
(all quotes from the Qu'ran)
QUOTE
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
QUOTE
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
QUOTE
[4.91] You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given.you a clear authority.
This is a small sampling of some of the information in the Qu'ran. This does not mean that all Muslim's hate jews and Westerners, but it does show how the extremists can interpret the information the way that they do.
How intersting that the word for Islam means peace. Its also interesting that the word Jerusalem means city of peace. Its also ironic that a religion named for peace endorses a war with Israel that is almost exclusivly suicide bombing over Jerusalem. The Palestinians were offered everthing but Jerusalem. But we are not discussing semantics or the wave of death and destruction that followed when the Oslo accord was rejected. We are discussing the peace that Islam will accept as 'equitable' if I might borrow this term. Peace at what price? This is what I cannot seem to get a handle on.
Lets forget for a moment that Islam is fighting all over the globe. Perhaps they are fighting for justice, or at least think they are. Possible they are being provoked in places like Israel and Europe, I don't think so but I'm an infidel, what do I know about Islam?
. "God has bought from the faithful theirselves and their belongings against the gift of paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill and get killed; that is a promise binding on Allah... (Repentance, 9: 110)
. "Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden - such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book - until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled." (Repentance, 9: 25)
The Islamic soldier is promised paradice and the unbeliever is compeled to pay tribute. Peace, peace when there is no peace. What kind of a peace is equitable? If I'm quoteing out of context here, by all means, set me straight:
"I (Muhammad) have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no God but Allah, and believe in me (Muhammad) as the Messenger (from the Lord)...and when they do it, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law." (Muslim 1: 31)
What does the 'blood and riches,' that are 'guaranteed protection' really mean because it sounds like extortion to me. I'm at a loss to find an explanation for how a religion of peace embraces these doctrines. I sincerly hope that the religion of Islam is dedicated to peace and has just got caught up in a war accidentally. Anyone wanting peace and is not hostile to Islam is considered innocent in the Koran. The unbeliever answers to God himself on the last day. Hey! I agree with that principle. I just wonder if unbelife is as tolerable for Islamics as Robert Schuller would have you believe. I remain open but unconvinced.
From what I can gather most Islamics are not trying to take over the world for Allah, that's not what I'm saying. Most estimates I've seen put the element around 10 or 15 percent of Islamics being militant. I have no problem with either peacefull religious devotion to Islam or their charitable enterprises. That said, the militant element is a very large and dangerous element:
1. Algeria,
"In Algeria, there has been another bloody attack by armed Islamic militants. According to a communique issued by the security services through the Algerian Press Agency, 26 people were killed in one of the bloodiest massacres since the beginning of the year.
The rebels have stepped up their attacks recently, killing thousands of people this year alone. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2198395.stm
2. Nigeria
"Sani told Freedom House that the Koran requires Muslims to kill family members who leave Islam, and indicated that his state will not prosecute such killings. Trying to appeal a sharia verdict to one of Nigeria's higher civil courts could be taken as a sign of such apostasy... The new laws have precipitated riots throughout the country. February 2000 saw the worst violence since Nigeria's civil war 30 years ago. In Kaduna City, whole neighborhoods were destroyed. Police conservatively estimate that 600 people died; human rights groups say as many as 3,000. Perhaps 6,000 have been killed in the last two years in religion-related violence nationwide. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Publ...01/099tvutr.asp
3. Philipines
" In April of 2000, an ASG faction kidnapped 21 persons, including 10 foreign tourists, from a resort in Malaysia. Separately in 2000, the group abducted several foreign journalists, three Malaysians, and a US citizen. On 27 May 2001, the ASG kidnapped three US citizens and 17 Filipinos from a tourist resort in Palawan, Philippines. Several of the hostages, including one US citizen, were murdered. During a Philippine military hostage rescue operation on 7 June 2002, US hostage Gracia Burnham was rescued, but US hostage Martin Burnham and Filipina Deborah Yap were killed during the operation. Philippine authorities say that the ASG had a role in the bombing near a Philippine military base in Zamboanga on 2 October that killed three Filipinos and one US serviceman and wounded 20 others. Strength;Estimated to have 200 to 500 members Largely self-financing through ransom and extortion; may receive support from Islamic extremists in the Middle East and South Asia. Libya publicly paid millions of dollars for the release of the foreign hostages seized from Malaysia in 2000. ."
http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/asc.htm [url][/url]
These are not isolated incidents, these are protracted guerrilla wars. Thsi does not include Indonesia, Sudan, Egypt, or Palestine were human rights violations in the name of Islam, whether or not they are profaining it, are occuring daily. How can we still believe that these wars and terrorist campaigns have nothing to do with religion.
Comparisons to the Old Testement are fair but it was reformed by a guy named Jesus Christ. The Hindu caste system was simular in many respects for a long time but Siddhartha Guttamah (Buddah) reformed it by declaring that anyone could be enlightened. Catholicism had crusades and inquisition but after the Reformation and the Thirty Years war their power had diminished. My point is this, Islam is in desperate need of reform. There is a growing democracy in Iran, they tried the fundamentalist/militant approach to politics. They came to realize that they needed more then the sharia and adopted a Constitution. After sacrificeing 1,000.000 of their people in the bloody 10 year war with Iraq diplomacy started looking more viable.
Islamic militants are waging a religious war, the only ones who can effectively stop it are Islamics
Why is Islam againt the US? Because we are not Islamic plain and simple
Lets forget for a moment that Islam is fighting all over the globe. Perhaps they are fighting for justice, or at least think they are. Possible they are being provoked in places like Israel and Europe, I don't think so but I'm an infidel, what do I know about Islam?
. "God has bought from the faithful theirselves and their belongings against the gift of paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill and get killed; that is a promise binding on Allah... (Repentance, 9: 110)
. "Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden - such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book - until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled." (Repentance, 9: 25)
The Islamic soldier is promised paradice and the unbeliever is compeled to pay tribute. Peace, peace when there is no peace. What kind of a peace is equitable? If I'm quoteing out of context here, by all means, set me straight:
"I (Muhammad) have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no God but Allah, and believe in me (Muhammad) as the Messenger (from the Lord)...and when they do it, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law." (Muslim 1: 31)
What does the 'blood and riches,' that are 'guaranteed protection' really mean because it sounds like extortion to me. I'm at a loss to find an explanation for how a religion of peace embraces these doctrines. I sincerly hope that the religion of Islam is dedicated to peace and has just got caught up in a war accidentally. Anyone wanting peace and is not hostile to Islam is considered innocent in the Koran. The unbeliever answers to God himself on the last day. Hey! I agree with that principle. I just wonder if unbelife is as tolerable for Islamics as Robert Schuller would have you believe. I remain open but unconvinced.
From what I can gather most Islamics are not trying to take over the world for Allah, that's not what I'm saying. Most estimates I've seen put the element around 10 or 15 percent of Islamics being militant. I have no problem with either peacefull religious devotion to Islam or their charitable enterprises. That said, the militant element is a very large and dangerous element:
1. Algeria,
"In Algeria, there has been another bloody attack by armed Islamic militants. According to a communique issued by the security services through the Algerian Press Agency, 26 people were killed in one of the bloodiest massacres since the beginning of the year.
The rebels have stepped up their attacks recently, killing thousands of people this year alone. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2198395.stm
2. Nigeria
"Sani told Freedom House that the Koran requires Muslims to kill family members who leave Islam, and indicated that his state will not prosecute such killings. Trying to appeal a sharia verdict to one of Nigeria's higher civil courts could be taken as a sign of such apostasy... The new laws have precipitated riots throughout the country. February 2000 saw the worst violence since Nigeria's civil war 30 years ago. In Kaduna City, whole neighborhoods were destroyed. Police conservatively estimate that 600 people died; human rights groups say as many as 3,000. Perhaps 6,000 have been killed in the last two years in religion-related violence nationwide. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Publ...01/099tvutr.asp
3. Philipines
" In April of 2000, an ASG faction kidnapped 21 persons, including 10 foreign tourists, from a resort in Malaysia. Separately in 2000, the group abducted several foreign journalists, three Malaysians, and a US citizen. On 27 May 2001, the ASG kidnapped three US citizens and 17 Filipinos from a tourist resort in Palawan, Philippines. Several of the hostages, including one US citizen, were murdered. During a Philippine military hostage rescue operation on 7 June 2002, US hostage Gracia Burnham was rescued, but US hostage Martin Burnham and Filipina Deborah Yap were killed during the operation. Philippine authorities say that the ASG had a role in the bombing near a Philippine military base in Zamboanga on 2 October that killed three Filipinos and one US serviceman and wounded 20 others. Strength;Estimated to have 200 to 500 members Largely self-financing through ransom and extortion; may receive support from Islamic extremists in the Middle East and South Asia. Libya publicly paid millions of dollars for the release of the foreign hostages seized from Malaysia in 2000. ."
http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/asc.htm [url][/url]
These are not isolated incidents, these are protracted guerrilla wars. Thsi does not include Indonesia, Sudan, Egypt, or Palestine were human rights violations in the name of Islam, whether or not they are profaining it, are occuring daily. How can we still believe that these wars and terrorist campaigns have nothing to do with religion.
Comparisons to the Old Testement are fair but it was reformed by a guy named Jesus Christ. The Hindu caste system was simular in many respects for a long time but Siddhartha Guttamah (Buddah) reformed it by declaring that anyone could be enlightened. Catholicism had crusades and inquisition but after the Reformation and the Thirty Years war their power had diminished. My point is this, Islam is in desperate need of reform. There is a growing democracy in Iran, they tried the fundamentalist/militant approach to politics. They came to realize that they needed more then the sharia and adopted a Constitution. After sacrificeing 1,000.000 of their people in the bloody 10 year war with Iraq diplomacy started looking more viable.
Islamic militants are waging a religious war, the only ones who can effectively stop it are Islamics
Why is Islam againt the US? Because we are not Islamic plain and simple
Frankly the whole situation is getting out of hand. The bluntness of the original question was amazing. You can't really claim an entire religion hates your country. This is exactly the black/white, good/evil, right/wrong approach to the world that has caused the US to lose perspective.
Islam does not hate the US. Many Islamic leaders see the US's power and success and are easily able to turn their followers hatred towards the US. However it’s not the actual religion that hates the country is it? I'm English and I have a large number of Muslim friends. However I also have loads of friends who are Christian, Hindu, atheists and even Jewish. They all get along without a problem.
What has happened is despotic Islamic nations have helped condition their people to hate the US. It helps the elite ruling theocracy in power by providing a scapegoat. In the same way the US has conditioned its people to think that theirs is god chosen country. The belief of this dangerous and should stop. Theocracies are beyond stupid and should be eradicated. I don't care if they’re Islamic or Christian. People should be forced into accepting rule from a religion they didn't choose.
I sometimes wonder the situation is salvageable. The question was such a scary example of the American need to turn everything into a good vs. evil conflict. The number of times G W Bush has used the word evil in his speeches is breathtaking. The US thinks Islam hates it because the US finds it hard to operate without a common external foe.
The only resolution I could see would be to kill all the preaching zealots of every religion. Then maybe people can get back to useful stuff rather than killing each other because their gods are slightly different. The Islam-Judaism-Christianity conflict is so funny considering there all different version of the same thing. Their angels all have identical names for gods sake!
Islam does not hate the US. Many Islamic leaders see the US's power and success and are easily able to turn their followers hatred towards the US. However it’s not the actual religion that hates the country is it? I'm English and I have a large number of Muslim friends. However I also have loads of friends who are Christian, Hindu, atheists and even Jewish. They all get along without a problem.
What has happened is despotic Islamic nations have helped condition their people to hate the US. It helps the elite ruling theocracy in power by providing a scapegoat. In the same way the US has conditioned its people to think that theirs is god chosen country. The belief of this dangerous and should stop. Theocracies are beyond stupid and should be eradicated. I don't care if they’re Islamic or Christian. People should be forced into accepting rule from a religion they didn't choose.
I sometimes wonder the situation is salvageable. The question was such a scary example of the American need to turn everything into a good vs. evil conflict. The number of times G W Bush has used the word evil in his speeches is breathtaking. The US thinks Islam hates it because the US finds it hard to operate without a common external foe.
The only resolution I could see would be to kill all the preaching zealots of every religion. Then maybe people can get back to useful stuff rather than killing each other because their gods are slightly different. The Islam-Judaism-Christianity conflict is so funny considering there all different version of the same thing. Their angels all have identical names for gods sake!
Islam is a hypocritical religion. Members of it say the preach peace but they really preach violence.
They aren't fighting all over to produce change for good, but for Allah and for world domination and making the world one gigantic islamic state.
Islam Kills
They aren't fighting all over to produce change for good, but for Allah and for world domination and making the world one gigantic islamic state.
Islam Kills
Messages from the Koran
[4.56] Those that deny our revelations we will burn in fire. No
sooner will their skins be consumed than we shall give them other
skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge, surely Allah is
mighty, wise.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you,
therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the
hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and
strike off every fingertip of them.
[9:5] When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you
find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere
for them.
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for
friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you
takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah
does not guide the unjust people.
http://209.130.122.6/archive/email/apologe...s/dialogue.html
Edited to add:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchquran.html
You can look up the verses on this pro-Islam site
[4.56] Those that deny our revelations we will burn in fire. No
sooner will their skins be consumed than we shall give them other
skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge, surely Allah is
mighty, wise.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you,
therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the
hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and
strike off every fingertip of them.
[9:5] When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you
find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere
for them.
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for
friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you
takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah
does not guide the unjust people.
http://209.130.122.6/archive/email/apologe...s/dialogue.html
Edited to add:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchquran.html
You can look up the verses on this pro-Islam site
Every religion can be hypocritical, and every religion has extremists. It's all in how religion is interpreted. 
I don't think you can misinterpret this:
009.029
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchquran.html
I'm sorry, but Muslims hide behind the veil of association with the God of Abraham, but in truth, they're beliefs are not that of a God of mercy but that of vengeance. It a far cry from Christs teachings of love and forgiveness. It is a faith of violence and retribution.
009.029
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchquran.html
I'm sorry, but Muslims hide behind the veil of association with the God of Abraham, but in truth, they're beliefs are not that of a God of mercy but that of vengeance. It a far cry from Christs teachings of love and forgiveness. It is a faith of violence and retribution.
Of course you can, Billy. You're reading from a document that was written in a different era with a different set of values. Don't assume that all Muslims read it literally. Just like Christianity, the texts are up for interpretation based on the value systems of the present era.
Additionally, for every quote that you pull from the Koran in an attempt to discredit Muslims, someone could do the same in regards to Christianity. It's all out of context though, and it doesn't reflect the way that most Muslims live their lives. There are militant, extremist Muslims out there. That's true, but there are also peace loving Muslims.
Additionally, for every quote that you pull from the Koran in an attempt to discredit Muslims, someone could do the same in regards to Christianity. It's all out of context though, and it doesn't reflect the way that most Muslims live their lives. There are militant, extremist Muslims out there. That's true, but there are also peace loving Muslims.
QUOTE
Additionally, for every quote that you pull from the Koran in an attempt to discredit Muslims, someone could do the same in regards to Christianity. It's all out of context though, and it doesn't reflect the way that most Muslims live their lives. There are militant, extremist Muslims out there. That's true, but there are also peace loving Muslims.
Of course there are peace loving Muslims and I have MANY friends that are Muslims. And through out the Christian history there are many that have abused the name of Jesus for their own means. But the philosophis of the two faiths are VERY DIFFERENT:
The Koran says, "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them" (Qu'ran 9.5);
Christ said, "Preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15).
3:28: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whosoever does this, he shall have nothing of Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.
Muhammed is threatening his followers if they have anything to do with any other people. He even states that Allah their god, will have nothing to do with them if they be friends to Americans or Christians. Mahammed said Allah loves no one else but them.
Christ said "Love thy neighbor."
It seems to me that America has to fight tooth and nail with most Muslim countries to get them to assist us on the War on terror. America provides so much aid and relief to the world and yet we not to be befriended by Allahs followers?
Christ preached charity to the stranger in the parrable of the Good Samaritan.
QUOTE
Mohammed arrived in Mecca leading a conquering army that wrestled the control of the city from the "infidels" and started a tradition and centuries of conquest that nearly encompassed the entire Arabian peninsula, the southern Mediterranean regions and well into Europe by the early 8th century. The Shia division of Islam is full of martyrdom. It has been a religion of militancy, conquest and of struggle from the beginning. This does not mean that all Muslims love conquest and war, but the traditions of the struggle between "good and evil" (or Allah and the infidel) are in firmly in place.
Muslim nations have been eclipsed by the West in technology, science, power and new ideas since the demise of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish) after World War I. This is evident throughout the Middle East. Where the Islamic nations once led the world in culture, there is now a feeling of great betrayal. Yet who is to blame?
The basic beliefs of Islam are largely in conflict to the hedonistic West. The role of men and women in marriage, respect of elders, consumption of alcohol, the prevalence of pornography, the role of a true believer to God (the five pillars of Islam) and daily attitudes of decorum, modesty and family life are greatly at odds with the "sexual freedoms" of the West. In other words, the West (personified mostly by the United States) is the "Great Satan" and corrupter to many. Many Muslims see America as the biggest corrupting influence to their conservative culture as they witness their children lusting after the values of Hollywood and Wall Street, and showing disrespect to all they consider culturally important.
Muslim nations have been eclipsed by the West in technology, science, power and new ideas since the demise of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish) after World War I. This is evident throughout the Middle East. Where the Islamic nations once led the world in culture, there is now a feeling of great betrayal. Yet who is to blame?
The basic beliefs of Islam are largely in conflict to the hedonistic West. The role of men and women in marriage, respect of elders, consumption of alcohol, the prevalence of pornography, the role of a true believer to God (the five pillars of Islam) and daily attitudes of decorum, modesty and family life are greatly at odds with the "sexual freedoms" of the West. In other words, the West (personified mostly by the United States) is the "Great Satan" and corrupter to many. Many Muslims see America as the biggest corrupting influence to their conservative culture as they witness their children lusting after the values of Hollywood and Wall Street, and showing disrespect to all they consider culturally important.
You can read the rest of the article http://home.christianity.com/local/46523.html
AP, "Islam" does not mean "peace", it means "submission".
And I think that while, as in the linked article, there are lots of cultural and historic reasons for Islam to dislike or even hate the West generally and America particularly, the main reason for the tendency of otherwise moderate Muslims to agree with fundamentalist is the the unquestioning public support of Isreal by the USA.
I think they didn't condemn Russian support for Israel, because they didn't expect the Russians to know better. They expect more from America. Through the prism of fundamentalist Islam, lack of free media, and the rest, they are angry and disappointed that a country that they hold to be the world leader (and which holds itself to be) behaves as if it sees no merit at all in their side of the argument.
In this, I think there are hopeful signs that the Bush administration intends to have a new, more balanced relationship with the peoples of the Middle East. Today's announcements that the monies spent building the wall separating Muslims from Israeli settlements in the occupied territories will be deducted from US aid to Israel is a welcome sign that this administration want to reach an equable settlement in the region. Prior to that, it was all to easy for those Muslims that do hate the USA to present it's policy as wanting the Israelis to win and everyone else to lose.
If America continues on this new trajectory, it won't stop the extremists from hating the USA, but I think it will dramatically reduce them from getting much attention from the peaceful majority of Muslims.
And I think that while, as in the linked article, there are lots of cultural and historic reasons for Islam to dislike or even hate the West generally and America particularly, the main reason for the tendency of otherwise moderate Muslims to agree with fundamentalist is the the unquestioning public support of Isreal by the USA.
I think they didn't condemn Russian support for Israel, because they didn't expect the Russians to know better. They expect more from America. Through the prism of fundamentalist Islam, lack of free media, and the rest, they are angry and disappointed that a country that they hold to be the world leader (and which holds itself to be) behaves as if it sees no merit at all in their side of the argument.
In this, I think there are hopeful signs that the Bush administration intends to have a new, more balanced relationship with the peoples of the Middle East. Today's announcements that the monies spent building the wall separating Muslims from Israeli settlements in the occupied territories will be deducted from US aid to Israel is a welcome sign that this administration want to reach an equable settlement in the region. Prior to that, it was all to easy for those Muslims that do hate the USA to present it's policy as wanting the Israelis to win and everyone else to lose.
If America continues on this new trajectory, it won't stop the extremists from hating the USA, but I think it will dramatically reduce them from getting much attention from the peaceful majority of Muslims.
Billy, I'm not going to get into a scripture war, because I think it's futile. For every negative quote, a positive one can be provided from the Koran, the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, The Satanic Bible....
I'm just responding to the blanket statements in this thread. Islam is not against the U.S. Some of Islam's followers are, and Islam is no more hypocritical than any other religion. I realize that most people don't mean to lump every Muslim into one category, but it's a pet peeve of mine, because by doing so, consciously or not, it contributes to the gap between the East and the West.
The tension between the Middle East and the West is based on a lot of different things, but I think that Julian is closest to the mark when he says that it has to do with U.S. support for Israel, and if the West balanced it's efforts between Israel and Palestine, a large portion of the moderates would come around.
I'm just responding to the blanket statements in this thread. Islam is not against the U.S. Some of Islam's followers are, and Islam is no more hypocritical than any other religion. I realize that most people don't mean to lump every Muslim into one category, but it's a pet peeve of mine, because by doing so, consciously or not, it contributes to the gap between the East and the West.
The tension between the Middle East and the West is based on a lot of different things, but I think that Julian is closest to the mark when he says that it has to do with U.S. support for Israel, and if the West balanced it's efforts between Israel and Palestine, a large portion of the moderates would come around.
QUOTE(nileriver @ Jul 22 2003, 09:16 PM)
Why does it seem that islam holds such a negative outlook towards the u.s, and vice versa i guess.
Perhaps the question has more to do with Islamic countries or individuals than Islam, although the religion may influence them to a degree.
The problem of Israel as a colonial imposed outpost in the Arab world, turning nonJewish Arab residents into 2nd class citizens or refugees and strongly backed politically and financially by the US is a good place to start.
The presence of the US and Europe in the Arab oil fields continues to feed anger to some Arabs about the west maintaining colonial, economic in this case, policies and propping up corrupt dictatorships.
The literalist nature of the Koran is also potentially a problem. A lot of the internal havoc in the Muslim world seems to stem from continuous reassertions of Sharia or Koranic law which can get into stuff like stoning adulterous women to death or the cutting off the hand of thieves. Then you have the notion of Jihad against the infidel. When fundis mix religion and politics together, no matter what religion, bad things seem to happen. It's hard to mediate the supposed word of God.
Both Christianity and Islam have conversion-by-the-sword traditions and though modified in recent times there are groups withing both religions that create conflict by reasserting spiritual tribal imperialism. OBL dreams of a new imperial Caliphate. The BA has its PNAC which seems to have undertones of empire.
As far as troubling comments from the Koran above, both the Old and New Testament are rife with quotes that provided a spiritual cover for conquest and hate. Witch burnings and slavery were both considered clearly sanctioned by the Old Testament. Anti-Semitism was perceived as coming right out of the mouth of Jesus and the story of the crucifiction itself has given rise to generations of Jews having to suffer the libel of being "Christ-Killers."
I am not sure what Christ meant when he said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. Whosoever would come to the father must come through me." It has certainly given rise to the notion among many Christians of an exclusivist religion that claims the only ticket to heaven is through Jesus Christ. That has been one of the great rationizers of Christian conquest and arrogance. Modern exponents like Robertson and Falwell have not missed a chance to use it to slam Islam as a religion. We even see it on this board.
QUOTE
I am not sure what Christ meant when he said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. Whosoever would come to the father must come through me." It has certainly given rise to the notion among many Christians of an exclusivist religion that claims the only ticket to heaven is through Jesus Christ.
I'm sorry, but that's exactly what He meant.
QUOTE
Anti-Semitism was perceived as coming right out of the mouth of Jesus...
WHAT!? Jesus was a Jew!!!! And He even told his disciples to tell THE GOOD NEWS to THEM first!!! He wanted His own people to be the first to experience salvation! You don't know what you're talking about!!!
Did you just say that the only way to heaven is the path of Jesus? I mean for christ's sake jesus was a gay, jewish anarchist. You do know that numerous books of the bible were actually removed. One features his relationship with the prostitute Mary Magdalene. Every holy text is almost infinitely interpretable which is one of the main problems. Extremists in every religion can usually back up their rantings. If you were being sarcastic then 
.
Bloody American tossers. Some Islamic preachers preach racist violence therefore they're all evil. Some Republicans preach 'racial conservatism', so are all right wingers racist?
.Bloody American tossers. Some Islamic preachers preach racist violence therefore they're all evil. Some Republicans preach 'racial conservatism', so are all right wingers racist?
Afro Punk - please try and be civil when you debate here. It is unconstructive to call people names.
We are not debating salvation through Christ here. This is a discussion of why "Islam is against the US"
Stay on topic.
We are not debating salvation through Christ here. This is a discussion of why "Islam is against the US"
Stay on topic.
QUOTE
BJ - WHAT!? Jesus was a Jew!!!! And He even told his disciples to tell THE GOOD NEWS to THEM first!!! He wanted His own people to be the first to experience salvation! You don't know what you're talking about!!!
He was preaching supposedly a new covenant and those who did not accept it became the latter day Jews. The rest were Christians. It is the intolerance toward those who do not accept the new covenant, including Christ is the son of God and prophesized Messiah, that has played a part in nurturing anti-Semetic feelings and the historical bad blood between the Christian West, including the US, and the Muslim world(See, I kept it on topic).
But it's not Jesus' fault they perverted his teachings. If you go strictly by what Jesus said you'd see that He wouldn't have tolerated the persecution of any people. That's why I have a BIG problem with the Church, they've ruined the message of Christ. It's supposed to be a willing acceptance, a change of the heart and spirit that draws you to Him. He preached love not hate.
Sorry about the aggression, I was venting from a bad day. Anyway its fairly easy to back anything up with either the Koran or the Bible and doing so is lazy, its like quoting Orwell. I think the reason Islam tends to be more openly aggressive is social and political factors in the respective countries. Islamic countries are by and large Theocracies with a very rich history who have been left behind by the industrialized West. The separation of god and state that the US constitution enshrined (which is now being hacked away, unfortunately) protected the US from falling prey to its own religious restrictions. Religion is too easy to manipulate and this difference in governments I think has led to the gap in development, the difference in social conditioning and culture.
Billy Jean the hippies preached love over EVERYTHING there not a world wide religion. If Jesus wouldn't tolerate the persecution of any people are you a supporter of gay rights? Also the Church didn't ruin the message of Christ, they wrote it. You don't really think Jesus's teachings were untainted by the personal ideologies of the disciples or the thousands of people responsible for the bibles constant rewriting.
Billy Jean the hippies preached love over EVERYTHING there not a world wide religion. If Jesus wouldn't tolerate the persecution of any people are you a supporter of gay rights? Also the Church didn't ruin the message of Christ, they wrote it. You don't really think Jesus's teachings were untainted by the personal ideologies of the disciples or the thousands of people responsible for the bibles constant rewriting.
QUOTE
Billy Jean the hippies preached love over EVERYTHING there not a world wide religion. If Jesus wouldn't tolerate the persecution of any people are you a supporter of gay rights? Also the Church didn't ruin the message of Christ, they wrote it. You don't really think Jesus's teachings were untainted by the personal ideologies of the disciples or the thousands of people responsible for the bibles constant rewriting.
Actually, God is the God of LOVE and love is universal. And I AM a Gay Christian. The red letters in the New Testament are the only TRUE WORDS of Christianity. Those sayings of Jesus have gone unchanged in 2000 years, at least the meanings behind them, of course.
Cool. You changed my views of you Billy Jean! Still i think its way to easy to twist Jesus's preachings.
It's definatly easy to twist the teachings of Jesus or any spiritual leader. MAN is flawed.
QUOTE
MAN is flawed.
Yeah but so is everything. Is that man as in the human race or man as in the gender?
Afro Punk & Billy Jean - you are both taking this off topic AGAIN.
Please debate:
We do have a new strike system, are you gonna make me use it?
Please debate:
QUOTE
Why is Islam against the U.S?
(also acceptable is to debate if you disagree with the basic premise of the question)We do have a new strike system, are you gonna make me use it?
They hate the USA because that is what they are taught in schools, mosques and at home. I propose we cut all funding to all Islamic nations that teach anti-american rhetoric. I was in Egypt and I had our translator read a Goverment run newspaper (The New York Time-----J/k). The paper was packed with so much hatred toward America I almost vomited. The people over their beleive what they read (those that can) and what they hear.
Doc (5 saved lives under my belt)
Doc (5 saved lives under my belt)
QUOTE(AirborneMedic @ Aug 8 2003, 06:10 PM)
They hate the USA because that is what they are taught in schools, mosques and at home. I propose we cut all funding to all Islamic nations that teach anti-american rhetoric. I was in Egypt and I had our translator read a Goverment run newspaper (The New York Time-----J/k). The paper was packed with so much hatred toward America I almost vomited. The people over their beleive what they read (those that can) and what they hear.
That's what happens in a state-run government like Egypt and all the other Middle Eastern countries. That's the way Iraq's newspapers and onlines were like before we liberated Iraq.
East asian nations had a similar reaction to the west in the last century which led to xenophobia but eventually they adapted. Now the middle east has to go through the same process; reconciling backward societies and customs with modernization while still retaining their identity.
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