I would like to open a debate on the charge that was issued the Lakers star Kobe Bryant a few days ago, and there are two main questions:

1.) Should there be a change of venue because of the white majority in that area of Colorado?

If so, would it be to leave the eventual jury decision to be unchallenged? Explain if you answered yes, but had a different reason.

If not, would it be because it's just a defense attempt to stall the case or get into a favorable adjustment? Explain if you answered no, but had a different reason.

2.) Should special supervision be given to the Kobe Bryant case, to make sure no leway is given, possibly by a independant investigatory committee? Explain your reasoning.

I don't think Kobe Bryant would be discriminated against for being a black guy.

I do think they should think about changing the venue just due to the high profile nature of the case. Smaller towns tend to be "anti-outsider".

I don't think any special investigation is needed. Bryant, I am sure, has the best lawyers that money can buy. The trial will be fair enough. I don't see why too much special emphasis should be placed upon this one trial.

maybe. not because most people in eagle county are white but because the majority know the liar that accused bryant. if the jury can be mad out of people that don't know her or just know wh she is but don't associate then they may be able to get him a fair trial. if not move it to denver.



I have to do something I rarely do and agree with amlord. Kobe is a major NBA star, has starred in dozens of commercials and has a lot of money. this should be handled no differently then any case. (with the exception of the cameras)

I hope I read this right unabomber, you think this young woman is a liar? He admitted to having sex with her. They only difference here is if it was forced sex or not. I have a hard time with you thinking she lied about this. Why would you not think Bryant is guilty and she is a liar? I guess that is why she reported it to the police. She is a liar.

This case needs to get special emphasis by the state. This case may define how American's feel about rape for many years.
I think there should be a change of venue to a place where nobody knows the woman.

It's too early to assume she is lying, and too early to assume she isn't. It isn't unheard of for a girl to go to the police with false rape accusations, and I doubt if there has never been one involving a high profile celebrity either. It could be argued that the girl is merely seeking attention through a now available channel (assuming the sex to be consensual). According to reports I have heard she failed to qualify for the last American Idol, in spite of friends feeling confident she was talented enough. I also think I saw a news blurb about a possible suicide attempt only months ago. Besides either of these things, the television news accounts I have heard describe the girl voluntarily going to Bryant's room immediately at the end of her shift, possibly indicating a prearranged rendezvous in favor (perhaps) of Bryant's story.

I don't believe it should be changed because of racial issues, but I do believe it should be changed because of the media frenzy surrounding it and because of the possible "small town bias" factor that may be present. As with other celebrity trials I think this one will be just fine without any independent investigative committees. The courts have shown themselves capable of trying high profile celebrities with objectivity.


Edited to add link of interest

The case will be moved. Why? In a town of that size they could easily prove that both the Kobe and "the girl" will not get a fair trial. Think how hard it will be to get a jury pool who doesn't know her.

Just a note about the case to feed the conspiracy theorists out there...
1) The Sheriff arrested Kobe before consulting the DA.
2) The public records (police reports/911 calls) have been locked in the county and there is speculation she has been involved in 3 reports within the last year
3) There are reports that one of the police reports is about false allegations she made of rape prior to this case
4) There is a lot of money to be made by many people involved in this case. There will be book deals, interviews, and who knows what else will be offered to the major players (DA, jurors, victim,etc.)...just look at Greta Van "whatever" on FOX...OJ was the best thing to ever happen to her.
5) She was alleged to be at a party this weekend bragging about everything...

I just weigh everything on both sides and it seems like she is lying, but the ball is rolling, and now all we can do is wait for 24 hour coverage on court tv.

Just to counter Jesus, there was also extensive physical damage to the woman in question, meaning that even if Kobe isn't a rapist he's still a terrible lover. That about all the info the prosecution has released. All the rest of that stuff is just rumors, except possibly the attempted suicide. Some of that stuff that's floating around has already been proved bogus. Personally, I figure that she originally wanted to have sex with him, and then when it started to hurt, she wanted him to stop but he refused. But hey, I don't really know.


I don't see any reason why a change of venue would we wrong. I don't think white people would be racist against Kobe Bryant, because he's so popular, but I do think no one on a jury should have ever met, or even know about, the victim of the crime beign accused (if at all possible.)

There's no reason Kobe should get special treatment on this case, however. The Justice system already favors the rich too much.

I didn't mean she lied about sleeping with him, even HE admits it.

abs mentioned that this may be a way for her to get attention. the womens friends say she tried to commit sucide, but almost all of them (except one) thinks that was a cry for attention. she is also the star struk kind. she named her dog after maria carey, and tried out for american idol. she is also not very stable mentally (she was in a psyche hospital in denver a while back)

meanwhile EVERYONE that knows kobe well and has known him for at least a few years says he would not do something like that as it was against his nature, and he treated all women with respect.

she figures that she can get attention (which she seems to love) and maybe even money, by accusing him of rape. (he being a big star) I think she is lying about him raping her, and will take kobe's word over hers.

Where exactly are you getting this information? The only thing I've seen that has any credibility was that she attempted suicide (though I heard none of her friends claiming she just wanted attention.) Don't believe all the rumors you hear, because there's a lot of false information floating around about this case. Don't just jump to conclusions because you like Kobe Bryant or whatever. Wait for the trail and the evidence. That's what I'm going to do.




Well, do his friends think that it is in his nature to cheat on his wife?

Oh look, she was committed. We all know that anyone who is hospitalized is paranoid and psychotic, and we can't possibly trust the word of someone like that.
Your attitude towards people who've been committed is very sad to see of someone in the 21st century, now that people are supposed to understand a little bit more about the human brain, and all the mental illnesses that can affect it. I've been committed three times - how does that in any way affect whether I am honest or not?! I really have no idea who is telling the truth, but as soon as I learned that she was hospitalized, I just <I>knew</I> that people like you would use that against her, and it made me feel very badly for her indeed. If she's lying, shame on her, but being institutionalized has nothing to do with that.
And, yes... Kobe Bryant treats all women with respect. Especially the wife he admitted to cheat on.

When someone accuses someone of a crime that is almost unprovable, it makes a lot of difference. This is a he said/she said case where credibility means a lot. Obviously, mental illness doesn't make anyone a liar, but perception becomes reality. Her perception of what happened may be quite different than the reality.

I personally don't believe that Koby Bryant raped the girl, but that's not the real
issue to address. What he failed to understand is the way the world
works when you are rich and famous. You gotta be clean as a whistle when you are held in such high esteem. Because if you are not, and the media gets a hold of it, you will be knocked off your pedestal so hard, and what a humbling experience it will be................He should have known better.

I agree with your first statement, especially considering that the girl is also black, a white jury wouldn't really be biased either way (at least not due to race). However, I think the "anti-outsider" nature of small town cases is a good thing. Why would you want an even bigger media presence (ie. OJ Simpson in L.A.)? I whole-heartedly agree with your last statement as well...

Just a couple of thoughts here after reading the posts.

One, I think that the area of the incident may have been polled to determine if a change of venue is in order. Otherwise this is a high profile case and I believe that the majority of America have heard of it. As to the locals giving him a fair trial, I would think there is as good a shot there as anywhere as long as the jury members have not had contact with either the accused or the accusor. But I do have to add that again and this is where the polling would help, there may be more rumor floating around there that the rest of us do not hear that could sway opinion one way or another. If that's the case, then it should be moved.

Now someone said that those who know Kobe do not believe that he could have committed rape. That is irrelevant IMO because one fact about rapists is that they are most often seen as family men and upstanding citizens. Rape is not committed because a guy can't get sex, it is committed to fill a need for power over another human being. The power and control issue would be better looked at in forming an opinion of the possibilities of his committing rape. Does he take pleasure in being seen as powerful? I've no idea but it is a good question to ask.

As to the alleged victim's credibility. I don't think we know all the facts involved so it is difficult to form an opinion. I do not have the opinion that her being institutionalized due to a suicide attempt undermines her credibility. If anything I think that would allow us to see her as more vulnerable than spiteful.

Just my thoughts.

Thank you Dayton for putting that into words so nicely. I agree that mental health directly relates to credibility and is therefore relevant in this case.

As for the special jury because he's black thing, I don't think moving the trial is necessary. To assume that people who live in a mostly white area are racist just because they live there is wrong and prejudicial. Kobe's defense attorney will have the opportunity to eliminate any racists during the jury selection process.

campbejm, she's not said to have been committed because she was schizophrenic, or hallucinating, or having trouble distinguishing between reality and fantasy - from what I heard, it was because of suicidal feelings. Mental health relates to credibility if the mental health problem directly relates to how one perceives things. At least, that's how it should be. Having suicidal feelings, the last I heard, doesn't mean someone makes things up, or sees/hears things that aren't there, or has a problem distinguishing between reality and fantasy. It means that they have problems in their life that they see no alternative to escaping other than committing suicide. This shouldn't give people more suspicion as to whether they're telling the truth or not! The last I checked, there was no link between suicidal people and habitual liars. Maybe you know of some research I don't...?

Why was she so depressed could it be this?



I would say, depending on what caused the depression, that she may be a less than credible witness. The jury should certainly know about her depression and her medical evaluation.

It's hard to hallucinate vaginal lacerations into being, or her blood found on Kobe Bryant's tee shirt for that matter.

Why don't we keep her medical record out of things and just have a look at the evidence?

makes sense to me and after from listening to what was reported on today, there is no lack of evidence.

Nurse at hospital said her injuries were consistant with sexual assault. THAT BOY IS IN BIG TROUBLE.

I am sure the jury will have access to that evidence. The jury should also have any evidence pertaining to any witnesses credibility. A man's freedom is at stake here.

Kobe Bryant has already admitted to having sex with the woman so the question now becomes was it consensual sex or rape. It seems to me that the woman's state of mind might be pretty important here and that any history of mental instability on her part would be a useful thing for the jury to know about.

The watermark for confrontation is (as I understand it) whether the rights of the witness in question supercede that of the public interest. Considering that the lawyer for Bryant already disclosed her name several times despite explicit instructions from the judge to avoid doing so; and considering someone has already offered to kill her, her interests should definitely be considered. It is for this very reason that professional jurists are employed by the state, as judges.

Actually, her injuries and her physical condition is consistant with her having sex with 3 different men in the 3 prior days. There was alot of physical evidence that harmed the prosecution. And suicide ideation or attemps are VERY germane to her credibility, ESPECIALLY if they ere attempts at attention seeking, and really just suicide gestures. She can get way more sympathy as a rape victim than a suicidal young lady if it is made public if all she is seeking is attention. If she is a borderline personality disorder, man, there is a whole can of worms here, and I doubt very seriously if it was rape.

According to what I've heard, both agree that they were willing participants. At some point during the interlude she claims to have changed her mind.

Listening to a reporter detail the testimony this past Thursday what struck me was she never said "no." At least I didn't hear the reporter say she did. She said, "I need to go" or "I should go." The reporter stated that at that point, according to the victim, Kobe wrapped his hands around her neck, turned her around bending her over a chair. The deputy who was testifying about the victim's statements never said Kobe was choking her. Just that he placed his hands around her neck and slowly turned her until her back was facing his front. He then held her head down with one hand at the back of her neck and took her panties off with the other hand. Still no mention of the word, "no or stop." He entered her and, according to the victim, was repeating in her ear, "You're not going to tell anyone are you?" and at this point the word "no" finally makes it into the conversation.

"You're not going to tell anyone are you?" "No." That could be from a man who just doesn't want his wife to find out.

As I was listening to the recanted testimony, I was visualizing this in my mind and wondered if Kobe might have been going through Kobe's mind. She had given him all the signs that she was receptive. She had willingly participated in the kissing and hugging and according to what I heard, she never used words that would make him believe she didn't want this to happen.

Unless the prosecutor has other damning evidence, Kobe will not be prosecuted.

at the end of the day it isn't going to be her past emotional problems that put her vaginal injuries there or the bruises on her neck or HER blood on his t-shirt.

these are facts, they are not circumstantial. these are pieces of physical evidence that relate, beyond a reasonable doubt, to a crime having been committed. She was seen by another employee shortly after and brought to the hospital. everything else is collateral and grasping and important for a good defense. will they be brought up? sure. will it matter? Depends on how much the Judge will allow or how convincing kobe's attorney is.

The physical evidence will matter more and will be the defining points as to his guilt or innocence.

She had one bruise on her jaw line - small and faint they said. Vaginal tears and bleeding don't automotically mean a crime was committed. For that matter, neither does the bruise.

the examining nurse said her vaginal injuries were consistant with a sexual assault. Im sure the Bellboy (or whoever he was) will also attest to her emotional state on that night as he brought her to the hospital.

"Consistent with" and related to sex with Mr Bryant are two different things. SoCaliente, many women have vaginal tearing and bleeding during sex. I have encountered this. You probably have too.

DNA shows a second man's sperm in her panties. Could she have had sex with someone else earlier in the day that was "rough" and caused these injuries?

Everyone is speculating wildly here; which is to be expected. Yet now we are disregarding the testimony of non-interested (nothing to gain from their testimony) expert witnesses. That seems a little harsh.

If we are going to play expert witness then lets do so. Trace evidence of sperm can survive long after the sperm's death it clothes aren't washed well.

Umm, no, actually it was the Defense position that her physical condition was consistant with her having sex with three different men in three prior days.

An assertion, by the way, that they never backed up. No expert witness listed, no 3 witnesses that said they had been with her during the prior 72 hours listed, no nothing. Just their statement that that was the case.

Why would having sex with three different men in three days affect your condition any worse than having sex with one man three days straight? Why would forced sex necessarily cause a worse condition than consensual sex? Anyhow this debate is way off topic.

3 different men (kobe being the third) in 3 days? I heard about the semen but I hope there's more proof as to the other guy #2. this ought to be interesting.

Still doesn't prove kobe didn't rape her.

Black jurors usually vote guilty. I doubt he will be upset. Beside judged by your peers, if thats where he lives, those are his peers

I certainly feel they should move the case to another area , even another state if need be; I do not see how Kobe will get a fair trial there in the all white community. If Kobe is guilty, then he needs to punished accordingly; but IF he isn't; then wouldn't it be horrible to go to prison for a crime you didn't commit???? I am a female and I think that since the woman is the one to go public first that she should have to bear the eye of the public equally as Kobe. Do I personally think Kobe is guilty??? I do not know as no one else really knows; not even Kobe's wife or anyone else other than the 2 people present in that room. I really don't want him to be guilty as I have admired him in his profession but just because he is a power individual he should not get by if he is guilty. First of all, as a woman, generally I feel the first step to agree or disagree on sexaul "happenings" is up to the female to say yes or no. She should not have gone to his room in the beginning; nor should she have entered into a sexual relationship. For sure I think the worse thing she could do is brag on the size of Kobe's body parts. Why did Kobe not play ball the other night??????????