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America's Debate > Archive > Political Debate Archive > [A] General Political Debate
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Billy Jean
Hillary Clinton says "First Mate". I think that's terrible. I think it would be the compliment of First Lady, ie,
"First Gentlemen".

What do you think "he" would be referred as? huh.gif
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Amlord
"First Has-Been"?
Billy Jean
LOL w00t.gif

I know that Hillary saying it makes everyone think of Bill, but in GENERAL what do you think he'd be called. biggrin.gif Though, maybe a guy would question his manhood being married to the President of the USA, he may think of himself as a has-been. The First Ladies roll has been very traditional in the "house wife" sense, untill Hillary Clinton. What would the "First Dudes" roll be?
Sleeper
I could really toss out some funny ones here but to keep it serious I agree with Billy. gentleman goes along very well with First Lady.

What is with First Mate??? Skipppperrrrr!!!!!
Victoria Silverwolf
I have to go along with "First Gentleman." I look forward to this day very much. smile.gif

As to his role, I would suspect that it would be similar to that of the First Lady. He would be a spokesperson for one or more good causes, probably non-controversial ones. (Such as Lady Bird Johnson with beautifying America, and so on.)

I would like to hear from our British friends as to how the "role" of Mister Thatcher during the Thatcher years was perceived. I suspect the whole idea of the First Lady or Gentlemen seems a little odd to them, since the President of the United States combines the role of leader of the government (similar to the role played by the Prime Minister) and the role of the head of state (similar to the role played by the monarch.) I suspect that Mister Thatcher had no "role" as such, but was simply the man who happened to be married to the Prime Minister.
Wertz
"First Gentleman" strikes me as being a bit archaic - and potentially classist, to say nothing of the inherent sexism (though I'd say the same thing about First Lady). I think the role needs a new title altogether - preferably something without a gender attached - though "First Mate" ain't it.

I can't really speak for the British, but when Mary Robinson was President of Ireland, her husband was simply known as "Mr. Robinson". If he needed to be distinguisehd from all other Mr. Robinsons, he was referred to as "the president's husband". Dennis Thatcher, on the other hand, was known (in Ireland, at least) as "that poor guy". laugh.gif
Rancid Uncle
If I was the husband of the first female president I would prefer, the president's husband or just my name. I also wouldn't like to be forced to anything too emasculating like show the media how I decorated the white house laugh.gif . Would they ask the female president to watch football and act like a man, of course not. If the next president was a woman the first man would be in a very difficult situation. If he's too much of a masculine father figure he's trying to hog the spotlight for the president or if he isn't a public figure he isn't a real man.
Paladin Elspeth
I guess the time to worry about the right title will be when it happens.

On the masculinity question, I could just as easily imagine The First Gentleman bragging to his friends, "On the plus side, I bed the most powerful woman on earth." Not just anybody can do that. biggrin.gif
unabomber
first gentleman sounds fine.

we could call him first bloke, or first fellow, or first dude. laugh.gif
Artemise
Im pretty sure it would come down to 'President **** and Mr. ****. The First 'such and such' would respectfully be eliminated. We certainely couldnt have President Mrs. *****?
This would consequently bring up questions in the future as to the usage of 'First Lady, which would be replaced simply by Mrs. ****.

This topic is interesting because it brings up acceptable gender roles. Sometimes the roles we have always perceived as acceptable for one sex seem ridiculous when turned around, which in my mind make them ridiculous overall. A good look at how females searching for a true basis of equality see the world.
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Rattlesnake
Probably Bill Clinton.
Julian
Dennis Thatcher (RIP) kept a pretty low profile, and was only really known to the public through a satirical column in Private Eye magazine ("Dear Bill") purporting to be letters written by him. These gave him the impression of being a kindly old duffer who wasn't much interested in anything except golf and gin & tonic. In reality, we didn't know very much about him at all short of the usual biographical details (he'd been married before, had made his fortune in business, and was said by friends to be an honest and decent man). I don't recall him ever giving a single press interview.

There is no equivalent in politics here to the "First Lady" - that's what we have the royals for (much as I might personally prefer it if we didn't have them at all).

Cherie Blair is somewhat unusual as a UK Prime minister's spouse, in having a high public profile. Dennis Thatcher was more typical in this regard. But, as a prominent lawyer and campaigner who is also the daughter of a popular 1960s and 70s TV actor here, I doubt if her prominence would be much lower if Tony Blair had never become PM. (Although it might be characterised more by her own views and opinons and less by her tastes in fashion and friends.)

On the title of a president's partner, what would the title be if the President were unmarried but cohabiting? (The "First Partner" ?) Or unmarried but dating someone? ("First Girlfriend"?) What if they were gay? ("First Civil-Registered Partner of the Same Gender"?)

Are any of these scenarios likely to happen (I don't imagine a gay president happening any time soon, Middle America thinking the way it mostly does) but the others are presumably more likely, aren't they?
Victoria Silverwolf
QUOTE(Julian @ Jul 27 2003, 01:23 PM)


On the title of a president's partner, what would the title be if the President were unmarried but cohabiting? (The "First Partner" ?) Or unmarried but dating someone? ("First Girlfriend"?) What if they were gay? ("First Civil-Registered Partner of the Same Gender"?)

Are any of these scenarios likely to happen (I don't imagine a gay president happening any time soon, Middle America thinking the way it mostly does) but the others are presumably more likely, aren't they?

The odds of an openly gay President, or an openly co-habiting President, being elected in the USA are exactly zero. I think that even an unmarried President with or without an "intended" would be very low. American voters seem to be attracted to the classic Nuclear Family image in their Presidents. I think it would even be very unlikely for a married person without children to be elected President. (Or, to be blunt, for anyone except a married male WASP with children to be elected.) (JFK's Catholicism was controversial, to some extent.)
LoraX
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ Jul 27 2003, 05:30 PM)
American voters seem to be attracted to the classic Nuclear Family image in their Presidents.  I think it would even be very unlikely for a married person without children to be elected President.  (Or, to be blunt, for anyone except a married male WASP with children to be elected.)  (JFK's Catholicism was controversial, to some extent.)

Attitude makes the difference. Essentially what the people want is a head of state much like the monarchy in Britain. Yet the President's job description is that of a head of government. Do you think people really cared about Tony Blair's illegitimate child? No, that in no way impedes upon him from performing his duties. But if we knew that about our President, wow, that would be a tough cookie to bite into. If by chance we had a married female president (other than Hilary) her husband would probably have quite a derogatory title being expressed by cliches of disapproval. Otherwise the official title would probably be First Gentleman. If the partner were of the same sex then the Advocate would probably have a title.
Billy Jean
James Buchanan, 15th President of the United States, was unmarried.
London2LA
Husbands of Queens (the royal kind) are typically referred to as Prince Consort, so how about "First Consort"?. Its gender neutral and doesn't imply or exclude marriage.
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