Do you think it is possible to be a Born Again Christian and Gay? Post your responses and back them up, please.

hmmm....... That ones a little puzzling. In my opinion.....I honestly dont know......

Definitely. In order to be Christian, first and foremost, one has to accept that Jesus is God and it was through his divine grace that we are able to ascend into heaven.

Now, unless being a homosexual some how prevents one from believing that (which I don't see how), then I don't think sexuality is very relevant towards heaven.

Besides, why would God condemn people for something they don't have any choice over?

Billy Jean, you know how I feel about this.
My studies indicate that if you are following the teachings of Christ, you are a Christian. And I have found nothing about homosexuality being a sin in the teachings of Christ in the 4 gospels. (Even in Luke, which was written by a companion of Paul)
Much of the rest of the NT is written by Paul. If his words are more important to you than the words of Christ, then you are a Paulist, or Paulian, or something like that.
Nothing elsewhere in the Bible can trump the words of Christ.
It is very clear that the teachings of Christ stress action over words, and that if we are his followers, we will be nice to, and take care of, each other.
There are also the admonitions about judging each other (don't) and punishing each other (he who is without sin cast the first stone). Those functions are his, and his alone.

Tolerance, if not acceptance. Peaceful co-existence, if not brotherly love.
Surely we can manage that.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved." St. John 3:16,17

"Whosoever" means anybody. That includes gays.

Let whoever disagrees take it up with God!

I agree. Even if you do believe that homosexuality is a sin, according to Christian beliefs everyone sins. However, as long as you believe that Christ saved you from the eternal damnation that you deserve for your sins, there is no reason why a gay person couldn't be a Christian.

I think you already know how I feel about this from previous postings.

I don't believe the bible teaches homosexuality is wrong. I've provided in-depth articles and links that substantiate that claim.

Paladin - you're quote of the scriptures says it all.

Sorry I don't quite know how you can say that. Try reading Leviticus Chapters 19-22 and then come back to me on this.
(I would like to see these articles of yours, are they on the Net)

My view,
God created man and then he created women. And he created women that man should love her.
'Husbands love your Wives'
'Wives submit yourselves unto your Husbands' (this does not mean the husband should dominate her and control her that she should serve her husband but that the Man whom God made first should rule over her by love as God does unto us)

where does the Bible say 'men love other men' or 'women love other women' except where it is an example of great sexual sin and is evil and rife in the sight of the Lord. As an example of diverse lusts and where God is displeased and angered by the actions of his people.

A Gay person is not excluded from the kingdom of heaven but he is expected not to be gay as all christians should give up this world in order to serve God. That does not mean we should deny ourselves everything but if something is to take away our attention and the glory from Christ that he well deserves then this thing should we give up. God gave marriage as a holy ordinance between a man and a women that it should be respected as such and not under any circumstances between same sex individuals.

The Bible is now complete as it says in revelation that the adding or taking away from this book (The whole Bible) shall spell destruction for those that change it. Therefore as the words of christ are recorded by men by divine inspiration so where all the other books (not just the prophets, as mentioned above in a different reply) thus all the word of God must be taken as God given and authoritative and if you take out only what christ said you are leaving out the whole of the old testament, which although the law no longer stands as our way of redemption as christ has done away with it and set up a new covenant between himself and God the Father that man by faith and not by works is redeemed by the blood of Christ. The Whole bible stands as a testament as to how we should live our lives. Not being Gay included, so a gay must if he wishes to enter into the kingdom of heaven depart from what is sinful in the eyes of the Lord and Grant himself wholly unto the Mercy of Christ.

John 8.15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man


Romans 14.14 : I am absolutely convinced, as a
Christian, that nothing is impure in itself; only if a
man considers a particular thing impure, then to him
it is impure.

Neither Jesus, nor Paul, nor any of the New Testament Scriptures imply that Christians are held to the cultic or ethical rules of the law of Moses. Paul clearly taught that Christians are no longer under the Old Law (Galatians 3:23-25); that the Old Law is brought to completion in Christ (Romans 10:4); and its fulfillment is in love (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14). Jesus did deal with human sexuality in an open manner.
He affirmed on one hand the goods of marriage, but also declared marriage is not for everyone (Matthew 19:3-12).
Furthermore, the Bible does not record one word spoken by Jesus condemning homosexuality.
As animal and child sacrifices within the Old Testament are understood to be outdated now, the biblical ban on homosexuality is outdated too. The old Testament is old and the new testament is new, meaning
to complete and to replace some dubious parts.

Billy Jean,
So what you are saying is that you have total christian liberty and that you now can do all things in the name of Christ because you are saved.
So in the same way I can kill you and In Gods eyes because I am saved by Christ I can no longer be held accoutable. This is against the new law, that Christ came into the world to save sinners. He pays the debt of sin we owe which is far more than we can pay. And once your saved your saying you should turn your back and live life as you please in all diverse lusts and foul deeds of this world, and on the last days you think he will accept you? (He is perfect Remember)
King David prayed to God that he should keep him from the small sins so that he should not commit the Unforgivable sin (which is not suicide, as many believe) it is the rejection of God in your mind and by deeds, So you living a life afront to him and entertaining your lusts but speeking for him in words as you where once convicted of your worthlessness is a fornication of this law. The Ten Commandments still stand, they are the eternal standards of God and decree what we must aspire to fulfill. They where put there because No man could fulfill except Christ who came down in human form and paid the debt we owe to God. So Christ took away the condemnation of the commandments as no man could keep he took away their power and tore the bars away.
For Billy Jean Only,
A Rage doth burn within me, a heart felt righteous rage, that God hath given in his mercy to keep me away from sin. If you know what you are saying I pitty you and Do answer my message, I wish to know to help you.

What does the Bible really say about homosexuality? Actually, very little. Jesus said nothing at all, which is most significant. Nowhere in the Bible is the idea of persons being homosexual addressed. The statements are, without exception, directed to certain homosexual acts. The Bible was not written in a cultural void, and many of its instructions and laws we simply classify as less relevant today (prohibition of eating pork).

This story of Sodom has often been interpreted as showing God's abhorrence of homosexuality. In the story, two angels in the form of men were sent to Sodom to the home of Lot. While they were there, all the men of the city, "both young and old, surrounded the house --everyone without exception," and demanded that the visitors be brought out, "so that we might know them". Lot begged the men to leave his guests alone and take his daughters instead. The men of the city became angry and stormed the door. As a result, they were all struck blind by the angels. There are several problems with the traditional interpretation of this passage. Whether or not the intent of the men of Sodom was sexual, the inhospitality and injustice coming from the mob and generally characterizing the community were "the sin of Sodom". Jesus himself refers to the inhospitality of Sodom. If, indeed, the men were homosexuals, then why would Lot offer them his daughters? What is threatened here is rape. The significant point then is that all rape is considered horrible by God.

Only two OT passages make explicit reference to homosexual acts; Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13. Both of these passages are a part of the Levitical holiness code which is not kept by any Christian group. If it were enforced, almost every Christian would be excommunicated or executed. It has been argued that science and progress have made many of the Levitical laws irrelevant for us. For example, Levitical laws prohibit intercourse during menstruation, medical authorities do not view it as harmful and it should not be viewed as sinful. Those laws were given over 3,000 years ago before showers and baths were convenient, before tampons, disinfectants, and other affective means of sanitation had been invented.

The Bible never addresses the issue of homosexual love, but has several examples of same-sex love. David's love for Jonathan was said to exceed his love for women. Ruth's relationship with Naomi is certainly an example of a deep, bonding love. The Bible does value love between persons of the same sex.
In the New Testament there is no record of Jesus saying anything about homosexuality. Jesus saw injustice and religious hypocrisy as a far greater threat to the Realm of God.
Jesus' graceful approach to eunuchs is beautifully pictured in the promise of the prophecy of Isaiah 56:4-8, "To the eunuchs...I will give them an everlasting name that will not be taken away."

In Jesus' day there were three types of persons called eunuchs: celibates, those who were slaves and were castrated so that children would not be born to them, and those who were "born eunuchs" or homosexuals. Royal and wealthy households would use castrated slaves to work with and guard the concubines and women slaves. However when assigning slaves to female members of the royal family they would choose homosexual slaves. With female members, the concern was not just unwanted pregnancies, but also rape. In Acts 8:26-40. the Holy Spirit sends Philip the Deacon to witness to and baptize an Ethiopian eunuch of Queen Candace of Ethiopia. One of the earliest converts to Christianity was a person excluded for sexual reasons from the Old Testament community.

Jesus' remarks about celibacy and castration are clear, but a male child being born without testicles is a rare birth defect. It is only in our day that sexual orientation has been determined to be genetically predispositioned prior to birth. It could well be that those to who Jesus refers as being "born eunuchs" are the people we call lesbian or gay.

The final and central message of the New Testament is that ALL persons are loved by God so much that God's Son was sent as a means of redemption from a disease by which we are all afflicted. The cure for this disease cannot be found in any set of actions. Neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is redemptive. God's love through Christ was given to all people.

Being the godless heathen I am, maybe I need a refresher course in the 10 Commandments:
1. You shall have no other gods before me
2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image
3. You shall not take the Lord's name in vain
4. Remember and keep holy the Sabbath
5. Honor your Father and Mother
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
9. You shall not bear false witness
10. You shall not covet thy neighbor's stuff

I see nothing in there about homosexuality. I'm not personally aware that Jesus said anything about homosexuality. He seemed to be more of a liberal Jew, kicking it with the lower class and the prostitutes.

Your logic is seriously flawed, if there is any logic at all here.
IF you believe that the Bible was written in sequence, and most Scholars don't, then you must disregard everything after Deut. 4:2, or Jer 36:32, or Prov 30:5,6. And how can you use the Revelations scripture when the Bible was not even formed as a 'book' when Revelations was written? The Revelations scripture you refer to is valid only for the book of Revelations.
And no one who has seriously studied the Bible will tell you that it is A book, but rather a collection of books and letters. The Catholics have extra books in their bible, and there are others in archives that only a few get to read. Men decided what books would be included, or excluded. Men are not perfect, and may even have ulterior motives for including or excluding something. Martin Luther (lunatic extraordinaire) thought the book of James should be deleted, because it adds a bit of conflict to the faith vs. works issue. We do not have it all, and some of the books included are now thought to be better off left out, particularly Revelations.
I was raised in a protestant faith that rarely discussed what we are FOR, but I certainly learned all the things we are AGAINST. That is not the way of Christ. He is not exclusionary, and he has made it very clear that only He is allowed to Judge, not you, not me, or anyone living on this earth. It is our job within our faith to be tolerant, and to forgive all things.
I suspect that many Christians would be shocked to hear this, but they are followers of Paul more than they are of Christ. Paul was a great missionary, but in no way did he, or any of the other Apostles, get it right when it came to fulfilling the mission of Christ.

There is a big difference between being a homosexual and committing a homosexual act just as there is a difference between being attracted to the opposite sex and committing adultery. One is a sin, the other is not.

But even if one had committed a homosexual act, how would that ipso-facto make one a non-Christian? The reason for Christ's incarnation was because we sin, not because we are holy. If there is such a thing as everlasting life, one flirts with losing it by convincing oneself that there is no such thing as sin and that all behavior is equally good.

In Revelation the translation has an obvious plural in it referring to the whole Book the Bible, It is a collection of books now compiled into one as the complete and finished word of God. Revelation was the last book to be written and it referres to all the inspired works of the men previous, some things were not left in the final book because God guided men to leave them out. The scripture now held up as the Bible is one work by one author, God. Men only transcribed by what skills they had, what God inspired them to write.
The bible was not written sequentially, and the order is not terribly important, but they were put in the order they are because it seemed good to men, and makes no real difference. The book of Job is thought to have been written pre-flood and the first chronologically but it is not compiled first.


Christ came into the world to save sinners, and the worst of these sinners where the low life scum of the day so jesus taught them and by this he should them the falisy of the pharisees and religious leaders of the day, in the jewish faith. The jews believed him not and they still wait for the messiah even though it is said he shall come between the destruction of the first temple and the building up again of the new and they now have the third one, and this professy was made before the first had been destroyed.
All men are sinners and all need saving grace so no-one is excluded from the kingdom of heaven but in coming to christ you must give up your sin and follow him. He was celibate as it would not have been appropriate for christ to have children so either we should never marry or marry one of the opposite sex.


True, but the Catholics don't even hold up the words of Christ let alone the rest of the bible. and the book of james should be read in context and not the bit that seems to support grace by works, and this is why it is still found in the finished work the bible.

But I am off topic - I would see homosexuality as a sin for the reason that it is against Gods order in that he created a man and a women that one should love the other. I cannot say that a Gay person cannot be saved but in my view it is wrong to be Gay. And as it has been said:

For only on the last day, only then, will we know all things.

Zebbeeddee - don't make writing four or five off-topic paragraphs and then one or two on-topic ones a habit here. It will earn you or anyone doing it a strike. We require posts to be constructive and on-topic, make sure yours are.

DEBATE QUESTION:

First of all, you cannot loose your salvation. If that were the case, what Christ did on the cross was in vain. Security in Salvation is the only promise, with out that, you might as well still be sacrificing animals to God. God did away with that with the Lamb.

Romans 14.14 : I am absolutely convinced, as a
Christian, that nothing is impure in itself; only if a
man considers a particular thing impure, then to him
it is impure.

Paul said that.

As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. I have said these things to you so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. I do not call you servants any longer, because the servant does not know what the master is doing; but I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my Father. You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name. I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another."
Luke 9:18-24

What is your definition of the word friend? A friend is someone we trust. A friend is someone who will stand with us through thick and thin. A friend is someone we care about and love. Most of all, we hope a friend cares about and loves us. Webster defines friend as a person attached to another by respect or affection.

Ruth and Naomi were women cast aside by their patriarchal culture and insignificant enough to be left for dead, yet their love allows them to make something for themselves out of nothing. The story may not seem to be very empowering of women. After all, the way out of their situation is to find Ruth a rich husband. It does, however, show the beautiful love between women.

The capacity to love is not somehow twisted by sexual orientation, rather, like any good Christian you simply need to make sure lust doesn’t get in the way of your walk with Christ. Most would argue that the ideal Christian relationship (even marriage) is all loving and not lustful at all, since lust is the character of a relationship that is selfish and seeks to take, while love is selfless and seeks to give and to serve. It’s not a question of whether the relationship falls into a category of emotional, intellectual, or sexual. The sexual part of a relationship can be very loving, if both partners want what is good for the other and are honest with each other. Even the most non-sexual emotional relationship can be very lustful, if people become codependent or possessive and seek to have their own needs met through the other person. We are called to glorify God through our love relationships, whether these are with lifetime partners, friends, roommates, co-workers, or random people we meet on the street.

The point of all this is that relationships don’t get easily classified into sexual or non-sexual, romantic or friendship. Sexual orientation can mean a lot or a little to the people of a love relationship. It's the context inwhich the relationship is held that is more important, not the gender.

Zebbeeddee, I would like to know what your sources are. I have watched many a Learning Channel, or History Channel show on religion, and the scholars who are most familiar with the books have trouble with this issue. Even the Jews can't be sure of the meaning of some of the relevant scriptures, as theirs was a verbal tradition for a very long time before they started putting it in writing.
If real scholars, not us amateurs, are in conflict over sexual issues, how can anyone know? And I submit that this issue is not even important compared to the many exhortations by Christ that we ignore on a daily basis. How can we justify ourselves at the Judgement bar about this? Can we say, " I was too busy worrying about the issue of gays in the church to feed your sheep", and get by? I think not.
You are a Christian if you follow the words and teachings of Christ.
I have read nothing that says this sin or that sin or any other sin will preclude your status as a follower of Christ, with the possible exception of an unforgiveable sin, and I don't think that issue was addressed specifically by Christ.
So being gay is a trivial issue at best.

Create a new topic about this. It is off subject. Let's debate it elsewhere.



You're right: the context is important. There are several different meanings of the word "love" when translated from the Greek. The two in question are "agape" (love that God feels towards man and ought to be felt vice versa -- this is the word used in the New Testament virtually everywhere you see "love" translated to English) and the word "eros" (which is sexual in nature -- this word does not appear in the New Testament). Both words can refer to relationships between men and women.

So the virue or vice of the relationship depends on the meaning of the word "love". For a man to love (agape) another man is virtuous. If a man loves (eros) another man it is not.

And where does it say that in the Bible? How do we know what translations of the word love were used? It's the quality of the relationship that's important, my choice of words (ie context) was a poor choice . You are splitting hairs on the term love. Jesus didn't say this type of love for this and this type of love for that. LOVE IS LOVE.