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Full Version: Just who exactly, are these Independents?
America's Debate > Archive > Political Debate Archive > [A] Republican Debate
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johnlocke
So as I read more and more about the Independent Party, the more I see that those involved have beliefs ranging the spectrum. And I'm not just talking about the usual interparty quibbling that goes on as BillAZ and I have shown can be common, but I am talking about a party that is seemingly leaderless and without direction.

From NAFTA
to Abortion,
From Taxes
to Foreign Policy,
from Social Security
to Intervention of Buyers Rights Vs. The Right To Sell Freely
The Independent Party seems to have a lot of people that just don't agree with each other, but refuse to be called Republican or Democrat. Now we all witnessed the last substantial leader the Independent Party had, Ross (I'll get 'em next time and here's an infomercial how) Perot.

But what, I ask as my first question, has happened to them since question.gif

Next, I'll ask this question that has been begging to be asked for the last 8 years...Do you think the Republican Party should be doing more to reach out to this large but leaderless Party question.gif

In the wake of what is going on in their Party, it seems that these Independents themselves can't see their own Party is in trouble, No one talks about it, and no one has tried to exploit it yet, and get them to trade up. I mean, they have no leadership and their Party continues to grow. In fact (jumpin') Jim Jeffords was the last Independent to make any news and that was only because he traded up in a time when it was crucial that Republicans have his vote.

Basically, What should the GOP be doing to get some of these disillusioned moderates back question.gif


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CruisingRam
This really should have been posted in the independent section, since this was a question really asked of us. Guess that is the weakness of the party line debate, they cross over too much!

Had John McCain won the election, we would not be having this conversation, that is a very quick answer on how to get the independents back. They would have flocked to him in droves and there would have been no talk of fixed elections and hanging chads, because on the national scene he would have drawn quite a number of dems as well I think.

How? First, he has REAL character, the american poeple don't mind a rich guy, but a rich guy that has walked in a "normal" americans shoes, or in McCains case, been a hero , a real hero in a bad war.

I would have been very vehement against many of his anti-labor policies, but I think I would have never doubted his motives or character, and would have debated his policies strictly on thier merit.

That is the kind of person that the repubs need to win independents.
Jaime
CRUISING RAM - this forum is for REPUBLICANS ONLY. Please refrain from posting in this particular forum unless you are a declared Republican.
Bill55AZ
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 3 2003, 06:48 PM)

Next, I'll ask this question that has been begging to be asked for the last 8 years...Do you think the Republican Party should be doing more to reach out to this large but leaderless Party question.gif

In the wake of what is going on in their Party, it seems that these Independents themselves can't see their own Party is in trouble, No one talks about it, and  no one has tried to exploit it yet, and get them to trade up. I mean, they have no leadership and their Party continues to grow. In fact (jumpin') Jim Jeffords was the last Independent to make any news and that was only because he traded up in a time when it was crucial that Republicans have his vote.

Basically, What should the GOP be doing to get some of these disillusioned moderates back question.gif
 


Thank you, thank you, thank you....
The Republican party should stop shifting to the far right. The Dems (a large and leaderless party) have already fractured their party by trying to appeal to the extreme lefties. Why is the Republican party trying to fracture ours using the same wrong methods with the extreme right?
What should the Republican party do?
It should shift left until it starts appealing to the moderates.
ConservPat
QUOTE(Bill55AZ @ Aug 3 2003, 06:20 PM)
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 3 2003, 06:48 PM)

Next, I'll ask this question that has been begging to be asked for the last 8 years...Do you think the Republican Party should be doing more to reach out to this large but leaderless Party question.gif

In the wake of what is going on in their Party, it seems that these Independents themselves can't see their own Party is in trouble, No one talks about it, and  no one has tried to exploit it yet, and get them to trade up. I mean, they have no leadership and their Party continues to grow. In fact (jumpin') Jim Jeffords was the last Independent to make any news and that was only because he traded up in a time when it was crucial that Republicans have his vote.

Basically, What should the GOP be doing to get some of these disillusioned moderates back question.gif
 


Thank you, thank you, thank you....
The Republican party should stop shifting to the far right. The Dems (a large and leaderless party) have already fractured their party by trying to appeal to the extreme lefties. Why is the Republican party trying to fracture ours using the same wrong methods with the extreme right?
What should the Republican party do?
It should shift left until it starts appealing to the moderates.

Name one extremist in the Republican Party, I can't think of one.

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Ataal
I'm sure anyone on the left would consider Bush and his administration extremist while you, pat, can't think of one republican that you're actually afraid of they're so exremist.

It's all about perspective I guess.

I'm going to have to disagree with Bill though, as a moderate myself, I don't think the republican party is "going too far right". In fact, it's been sliding left for a while now. Or at least that's how I see it.

I've known several people that have jumped ship to the independent party. One of my co-workers did it because he was tired of the wishy-washy republicans that won't take a real stand on an issue(although I'm not sure how going to another party that lacks any organization at all levels solves that). A friend I know jumped ship because he wanted to be in a party that doesn't use as sneaky, screw everyone for one vote, type of tactics.

The republicans tout their morality whether it's based on religion or whatever, but seem to use the same slimey tricks the democrats do(redistricting, not keeping promises, etc...). I think many who have jumped ship would like to see a party that really is as moral as they claim themselves to be. Although I've never heard of a political party that doesn't have any politicians. tongue.gif

I stay with the republican party because it's still the only party that I agree with most of the time. IF I were to jump ship, it would be the libertarian party.
johnlocke
Does anyone have anything to say that even remotely revolves around the question I asked??? sad.gif
Ataal
QUOTE
The republicans tout their morality whether it's based on religion or whatever, but seem to use the same slimey tricks the democrats do(redistricting, not keeping promises, etc...). I think many who have jumped ship would like to see a party that really is as moral as they claim themselves to be. Although I've never heard of a political party that doesn't have any politicians. 


This was my sort of pseudu answer. To clarify, the GOP, as a whole needs to play the game as ethicly as they say they do.

Also, I think more emphasis should be made about throwing votes away at election time. If you don't think this is a two party system, you're living in a dream world.
johnlocke
Ataal,
I couldn't agree with you anymore on the issue of wasting votes.
Amlord
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 7 2003, 05:30 PM)
Ataal,
  I couldn't agree with you anymore on the issue of wasting votes.

I am sad to report that I voted for Ross Perot in the first national election I ever voted in (1992). Forgive me, I was 20 at the time...

Bush's breaking of his "no new taxes" pledge really stuck with me, however.
Google
AuthorMusician
There are two kinds of independents: Independent and independent.

The party strikes me like the Freethinkers organization. If you're independent, you have no party; if you're a freethinker, you have no club.

The real questionable vote is the small "i" independent. Next comes the party-affiliated swing vote. What can the GOP or Demos do to get those votes?

Dance. Dance with all your might and all through the night.

In other words, don't try. Just promote your party's platform as best you can. We independents will make up our minds, do our secret vote, and later you can ask questions. You might even get a straight answer.

As for the Independent Party, I have no idea how to appeal to folks who claim independence yet join a club. Don't think the GOP or Demos can.
Jaime
WRONG FORUM, AM - this one is for REPUBLICANS ONLY!!!

Please refrain from posting in here unless you are a declared Republican. Thanks smile.gif
johnlocke
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Aug 8 2003, 01:33 PM)
If you're independent, you have no party; if you're a freethinker, you have no club.

Perhaps the quote should read, If you're an Independent, you have no CLUE laugh.gif
Now I am just kidding but on a serious note....It's a ridiculous idea to wastwe your vote. Ross Perot, the most succesful Independent I can think of, still only pulled less than 5% of the national vote, votes that could've gone to Bush.
QuaneCorsair
I will agree with Ataal in that the Reoublican party has been swinging LEFT, most of the independent people i know are ex republicans who are tired of liberal moves throughout a republican administration. such as socialized medicine and the like.
I have found it hard to find strong conservatives representing me in the Republican party anymore. dont get me wrong, i like bush. but i think he should step back RIGHT, and stop trying to appeal to the leftish moderates. i have considered claiming independent because of LEFTish republican representation.

So stick to your guns conservatives, stop being "wishy washy" about issues, and i think we can get back many of these independents.
We might lose a small percentage of liberal minded moderates, but that raises a question:

Are we willing to comprimise our values to please everyone?



I hope not, because i dont think everyone can be RIGHT, but i am (pardon the play on words)
johnlocke
QUOTE(QuaneCorsair @ Aug 14 2003, 08:31 PM)

I have found it hard to find strong conservatives representing me in the Republican party anymore. dont get me wrong, i like bush. but i think he should step back RIGHT, and stop trying to appeal to the leftish moderates.

Quane...That's exactly the point! The Right has moved Left sour.gif I had another thread concerning this but it didn't do too well. Maybe I should try again.....change the parameters around or something.
ConservPat
Frankly, I think that the GOP needs to bring itself back to the right, and appeal to CONSERVATIVES, conservatism is a great thing and it should be conserved.

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QuaneCorsair
CP, Johnlocke,

I agree with both of you,

BUT... how can we practically help to make this happen? i see no effort of the republican party to even consider swinging back right. ( it might exist, i just havent seen it).

It is sad that we are seeing liberal infestation constantly, i see it in my friends, in my state (CA), and in my country. and it is getting worse around here, not better.

what is a practical way to combat it? in other words, how can we turn Right, and convince any moderates that Right is intelligent and/or practical.

Quane
ConservPat
QUOTE(QuaneCorsair @ Aug 22 2003, 02:19 PM)
CP, Johnlocke,

I agree with both of you,

BUT... how can we practically help to make this happen? i see no effort of the republican party to even consider swinging back right. ( it might exist, i just havent seen it).

It is sad that we are seeing liberal infestation constantly, i see it in my friends, in my state (CA), and in my country. and it is getting worse around here, not better.

what is a practical way to combat it? in other words, how can we turn Right, and convince any moderates that Right is intelligent and/or practical.

Quane

Well, we need to show how great conservatism is, thereby enacting conservative acts, laws, etc, that'll show moderates how great it is, it's worth a try.

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johnlocke
QUOTE(Conservpat @ Aug 22 2003, 06:20 PM)
QUOTE(QuaneCorsair @ Aug 22 2003, 02:19 PM)
CP, Johnlocke,

I agree with both of you,

BUT... how can we practically help to make this happen? i see no effort of the republican party to even consider swinging back right. ( it might exist, i just havent seen it).

It is sad that we are seeing liberal infestation constantly, i see it in my friends, in my state (CA), and in my country. and it is getting worse around here, not better.

what is a practical way to combat it? in other words, how can we turn Right, and convince any moderates that Right is intelligent and/or practical.

Quane

Well, we need to show how great conservatism is, thereby enacting conservative acts, laws, etc, that'll show moderates how great it is, it's worth a try.

CP us.gif

I suggest a new National Awareness Month. Ronald Reagan Awareness Month. A whole month of celebrating Ronald Reagan and his ideals, playing his speeches on TV (foxnews) having hsi biography shown on A&E over and over again, and how's about a salute to his 4 Pillars of Freedom? What about a salute to the people that coninue to carry on his 4 Pillars, Like GW and Newt and Ollie North and Rush and Hannity and O'reilly........let's get this ball rolling.....how's about March?
Bill55AZ
[quote=johnlocke,Aug 31 2003, 04:46 PM]
CP us.gif [/QUOTE]
I suggest a new National Awareness Month. Ronald Reagan Awareness Month. A whole month of celebrating Ronald Reagan and his ideals, playing his speeches on TV (foxnews) having hsi biography shown on A&E over and over again, and how's about a salute to his 4 Pillars of Freedom? What about a salute to the people that coninue to carry on his 4 Pillars, Like GW and Newt and Ollie North and Rush and Hannity and O'reilly........let's get this ball rolling.....how's about March? [/quote]
Could give a whole new meaning to the term "March Madness".
I doubt that most Republicans feel the need to worship at the alter of Reagan, not that I disagree with others who feel he was a great president in most respects.
But the other names there, not gonna happen. The far right is not automatically correct just because some of us wish it to be so. There are a lot of good ideas available from moderates, and even some from liberals. us.gif
QuaneCorsair
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I agree that making a Reagan month wouldn't be extremely effective. it would just be pushing an extreme agenda that would be rejected just on the merit of its extremism.
I think that we should rally behind those that represent our views. as johnlocke states,
QUOTE
Like GW and Newt and Ollie North and Rush and Hannity and O'reilly........
i could add some names myself.
not to stand on a soapbox, but we cant stand by and watch the country go completely liberal without some kind of stand somewhere. i don't know where it should be, i am not that wise. but it needs to be made.

QUOTE
The far right is not automatically correct just because some of us wish it to be so. There are a lot of good ideas available from moderates, and even some from liberals


I agree, the FAR right has its faults, one of the biggest being very common with ALL extremists, the inability to look at other views as possibly correct. anything that comes form a liberal is instantly made out to be evil, and everything that comes from conservatives is whitewashed as perfect.
ridiculous. not everything that anyone says can be true or false, with the exception of God.

so, apart from jumping the far right side of trying to solve the question. how can we turn the tides, not violently, not in a way that will instantly make us out to be "bigoted money grabbing selfish republicans". but in such a way that is disarming to those who would destroy us, and reasonable to those that are willing to listen(or watch).
my question still stands i guess...
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i know it isn't an easy one.
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Quane
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