A song says this " yea we t ryin to stop terrorist but we still got terrorist here in the USA the big CIA the Blood and the Crypts and the KKK"

What can america do to stop these hate groups, or do you think they should still exist.

the thing is that these are differentr groups that come together for different reasons.

the CRIPS (not crypts) and bloods are two inner city gangs that are often formed and made of young, poor and quite often minority people. they were originally formed to help give youths a sense of "family" and often provide them with a "saftey net" of sorts. the way to get rid of them is simple: remove poverty, one of the driving forces for new members to join.

the KKK on the other hand is made up of groups of white, usually ignorant, people that think minorities should be treated as subhuman and think whites are better for some reason. getting rid of this group may be very hard to do, as they are often raised from birth with the beliefs they have, kind of like convincing north koreans kim jong il is evil.

the CIA(criminals in action) is a rouge government agency which has helped fuel americans addictions to drugs, specifically cocaine and crack. there is document proof they have, in the past at least, brought drugs into america, or helped those that have done so, so it is logical to assume they still run drugs.(as a side note: the taliban had nearly ended all opium poppy production, but it has exploded since we took over, and not much is done to stop it) this may be one of the hardest groups to get rid of, as they are also the face of the NSA, the only feasible way to destroy them is to destroy all of the government, which isn't likely to happen in the near future.

one hate group you failed to mention which deserves attention is extreme fundamental christians. people claiming to do gods work (like bombing abortion clinics, attacking doctors, bombing gay clubs, arson of clubs and clinics, among other things) I view these people (not all fundy christians just some, like eric rudolph) as more of a threat then inner city gangs, and even the KKK. something needs to be done about them, as the are doing what they do because it's what god wants (sounds like some other terrorists, huh?) what to do I'm not sure.

This take the war on terrorism to a whole new level, lets stop these fundamentalist Christians because they are more destructive then gangs. Contrary to popular belief most Christians do not go around advocating blowing stuff up. In fact there are more churches are burned down in this countries then there are abortion clinics bombed. The KKK is actually obsolete right now even though they used to be a very powerfull right wing extremist group, their membership is small and their activities amount to nothing. These people havent been tied to any kind of terrorism.

The militias are still around and they are more militant and well armed then most people believe. The Feds would love to bust these people but they tried that throughout the 80s ; Ruby Ridge and Wacko were the result. The truth is we have very little in the way of domestic terrorism because we call these people what they really are, they are criminals. The last time I checked murder and destruction where punishable under federal and state laws everywhere in the United States. Gang members do go to jail when they break the law, KKK members go to jail for breaking the law, if they break the law, and their being in the KKK is not an issue. By the way, most of the abortion clinics that are bombed are bombed by Catholics not fundamentalists, same for the murder of abortion doctors. There was a really intersting thing on 60 minutes a couple of years back about it.

The fundamentalists are coming, watch out Yea right

Oh really? I bet the Chicago Police Department would have liked to know that. Then they would have had nothing to worry about last May....8 people arrested at KKK rally in Berwyn



Sources, please. I missed the 60 Minutes episode & this is the FIRST time I've ever heard this.

The KKK died out long ago. They have no relavence. They occasionally pop out of their caves to hold a rally to cause a scene and upset some locals and to dare the remnents of the Black Panthers to take a shot at them. Kinda like the occasional Neo-Nazis

In other words, the KKK is one of the few "terrorist" groups to have died out and become extinct.

Anti-Establishment groups like the Weathermen(?), who's philosphy rides around overthrowing the United States Gov't, who appeared from the era of Vietnam are declared passe since 9/11 but have been quiet since the end of the Vietnam War

Tell that to the African Americans in the South. And the gay community here also. I unfortunatly have distant relatives in the Klan... and have had first hand acccounts of them spreading their propaganda in public to this very day. They may not have the power and influence of their hay-day, but they're still relavent when a human life is in danger.

I think what he meant(and I may be wrong) is that the old KKK that used to hang blacks on a tree just for being within sight of them have died out. The KKK has gone to a more, pass the pamphlets out and we'll hold a meeting with a bunch of rock bands to entice kids to show up kind of thing. As long as they remain non-violent, they have just as much right to speak their mind as anyone else even if I completely disagree with them. I'm sure there are still some pretty violent members and they should be put in jail.



If you call cold blooded murder in the streets a sense of family and being worried about what colors you're wearing for fear of your life a "safety net" then I think we need to have a talk. Maybe in the beginning it wasn't like that, but it makes no difference now.

You are correct

I think the CIA exists.
The best way to stop hate groups like the KKK is to never stop speaking the truth and always be vigilant. As we saw with the anti-Jew thread there still is hate and racism in America. There might not be a vocal and violent manifestation there once was but the spirit of the KKK is alive just look at the hate message board Christine Horner linked to. Just listen to Bob Marley

When there is a KKK ralley there are allways protestors going off. We had two here a couple of years ago and there was no trouble from the Klan, it was the protestors. I dont have any real sources for ratio of catholics to fundamentalists so I guess you'll just have to take it for whatever its worth. I did find an interesting website that offers some really credible statistics that demonstrate that attacks on abortion clinics are on the decline. Clinic violence

Probably because Christian fundementalists don't want to be compared to their Islamic counterparts.

Or it could be because, like the KKK & Milita group violence, it has become old news

Then why did you say that about Catholics in the first place? Seems awfully inflammatory to me.

That was not a slam on Catholics it just so happens that some of the groups that are into vandalism are Catholics. However, no true Catholic would ever advocate killing abortion workers since Rome consideres life sacred from conception. They are the leading opponents of the pro choice movement and allways have been. You will not see much in the way of antiabortion activism, militant or otherwise, without mention of Catholic's in the mix.

John Salvi and abortion clinic violence

When I said that there were more Catholics doing this then Fundamentalist I was expressing an opinion. Just like the post I was responding to that claimed the Christian Fundamentalists were a growing terrorist threat. I may or may not have been correct in my estimation. But inflaming someone was not my intention.

Here is another group in the United States that could be called terrorists:Environmental groups or "Eco-Terrorists"

Eco-Terrorists

Catholics cant be considered fundamentalist Christians? Are they reading a different Bible or something? Or is there a distinct difference that Im not aware of?

That being said, what should be do about hate groups in the US? Nothing. They can continue with their hatred as long as they dont break any laws.

The KKK has had it's up's and down's in membership and popularity. It has not been eliminated completely and therefore it's still a problem. There was a great documentary on them just the other night on the History Channel.

ELF is a terrorist group and based right here at home. I'm surprised Bush hasn't mentioned them at all. I guess American terrorists aren't a part of his War on Terror.

Bush only cares when it's someone threatening the US or one of our interests. US-based terrorists are just fine as far as he's concerned. Heck, Bush *IS* a terrorist in many ways. The whole War on Terrorism is utterly hypocritical.

News on ELF



And:

FBI calls ELF "Terrorists"


Cephus:



Yeah...to many arabs

And that's okay, huh? You enjoy living under a terrorist regime?

LOL, Bush is a terrorist, name one way, please.

CP

coup d'état of the Presidency.

It is EXTREMELY difficult to debate one-liners. Let's be constructive in our posts please.

I don't live in Iran. I live in the United States.

Billy Jean:



He was elected just not the usual way we are used to. How is this a coup d'état?
the Supreme Court turned down Gore, so they elected Bush. Bush didn't do what Musharraf did to become president.

Ah yes, the Supreme Court. That sounds very democratic. Bush didn't have to get his hands bloody because the Supreme Court took care of it for him. Aren't they supposed to be impartial?

If any of you are truly interested in beating dead horses, we have a debate going regarding the 2000 election here: The Election that Wouldn't Die.

Otherwise, let's get back to debating the actual topic:

Yes, with a president that seems to think killing off any foreign leader he doesn't like is a fine way to do business. No other country that I'm aware of, Iran and the former Iraq included, have done that.

So how does it feel to live in a terrorist country that's worse than Iran and Iraq?

Daddy Bush never liked Saddam & Clinton certainly didn't like him either. So are you gonna call them terrorists??



America doesn't seem to be worse than any of them.

Now, i do believe Jaime asked us to get back on topic, which was HATE GROUPS IN THE USA. So unless BUSH is a member of ELF or the KKK, let's drop this argument and send it to another thread

Daddy Bush and Clinton never tried to assassinate another foreign leader, did they? Baby Bush did. Daddy Bush and Clinton never tried to topple a foreign country. Baby Bush did. Twice. Against countries which posed no direct threat to the US, no less. I was no fan of Daddy Bush but at least he stopped the Gulf War when the political mandate of the UN was reached. He freed Kuwait and stopped. Baby Bush ignored the UN, acted on his own to invade a soverign country and lied to the world about his reasons.

Yeah, I'd call that a terrorist.



Well, Bush is a member of the fundamentalist Christians, which certainly qualifies him as a member of a hate group, but I digress...

You know, I agreed with everything you were saying up until that sentence. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE FULL OF HATE. I don't see you pointing out the Muslim extremists and terrorist cells in America who killed 3,000 innocent people two years ago and the ones STILL here planning future attacks.

I said fundamentalists, and fundamentalists pretty much *ARE* full of hate. And yes, there are hate groups from pretty much every religion (except the Jainists, I wouldn't think) in the US. Heck, you have Christian hate groups blowing up Christian churches, Jewish hate groups blowing up Muslim mosques and Muslim hate groups blowing up Jewish synagogues. That's more than enough hate for anyone.

Ok. You said Fundamentalists. I apologize. But not all Christians are proud of how those fanatics act. Just like not all Jews or Muslims are proud of how the few act.

No, and nobody should be. As humans, we should all be embarassed by the actions of the fanatics and should stand up against them. Muslims worldwide should have come out against the actions of Al-Queda, but they didn't. Christians worldwide should come out against abortion bombings, but they don't. The reason fundamentalism of any stripe continues to work is because far too many people think that they have to support, at least tacitly, any action by said religious group in order to be a good fill-in-the-blank.

"I can't be a good Christian unless I support what Christians do"... "I can't be a good Muslim unless I support what Muslims do". That just causes problems when people stop being able to think for themselves and stop being able to condemn those who perform hideous acts in the name of a particular god.

Note, I'm not saying *ALL* Christians or *ALL* Muslims are like that, nor that every act is necessarily bad or uncalled for.

First thing you have to do is define what a terrorist is, and that is a slippery slope. Our bombing of civilians in WW2 was certainly a terrorist act, with terrifying and demoralizing the German poeple the desired result, with no direct military target, outside of demoralizing the german poeple. So what is the difference between this and what OBL did to the world trade center? Except, of cource, we were the eventual winners. What is the purpose of the Isreali goverment bulldozing homes that they know have no military effect outside demoralizing and terrorizing the family of the palestianian "terrorists".

So without a objective definition of a terrorist is outside propaganda for one side or the other, how do we call them a terrorist or us just defending ourselves? No person is the villian in his own eyes.

Obviously you don't want to give Muslims the benefit of the doubt.

BTW: Do you have proof Bush is connected to a fundelmentalist Christian group? if not, stop clogging the thread

Suggested reading on Terrorists in the USA.



Eco-Criminals and other Ne'er do wells.

Sounds like The Weathermen, the anti-establishment nuts that were born during the Vietnam War. ELF is a nasty terrorist group indeed. Destroying equipment, killing workers, etc

Yes they did - in droves.

Show the fruits of their labor, ie links. Also, I do remember seeing on the news Muslims dancing in the street after 9\11....

About abortion bombings:

"I join with the U.S. Catholic bishops who have stated that to commit violence in the name of pro-life is hypocrisy, pure and simple. The Christian Coalition condemns this reprehensible act of violence."

About the bombing of the lesbian bar:

The Christian Coallition said this is "indefensible terrorism and cowardice." Ralph Reed, their Executive Director issued a statement saying that their organization "condemns as abhorrent and unacceptable the use of violence or terror to advance the pro-family cause or its values...We urge all those involved in the often contentious disagreements over the family and the state of our culture to speak out for their values using what Martin Luther King called the weapons of love, not the weapons of violence and terror."

religioustolerance.org

Edited to add: The terrorist organizations we need to be worrying about are those that are willing to purchase these land to air missiles in order to cause mass casualties and those who would do harm to our government officials/agencies in an attempt to disrupt this republic and the services they provide.

Muslim Response to September 11th

Perhaps, it's easy to forget, but there was a huge response from Muslims worldwide condemning the September 11th attack.



What would you have them do that they haven't already done? I often hear the response that the more moderate members of a group should do something about the extremists, but really, what can they do? They already condemn the actions of the extremists verbally.