Imagine: You are an omnipotent being. You are the only eternal force in existence, greater than the universe and time. It's hard to say exactly how long you've been sitting around by yourself since you are, after all, outside of time. But there you are, sitting in this vast void of nothingness, twiddling the quantum equivalent of thumbs.

Then it hits you. You're lonely.

You've never known any other company in the infinite history of your existence, nor have you ever bothered to do anything with this void, perhaps considering it silly to create something out of nothing. Nevertheless, despite being unfamiliar with the concept of companionship you are lonely and you are going to do something about it.

Seven days later you've whipped up this jumbled sea of matter with particular attention paid to this little galaxy named after your favorite candy bar. The candy bar in question doesn't yet exist, of course, but omniscience has its benefits. Within this Mars bar of debris you've painted this little terrestrial planet with oceans and organic life -- as opposed to nonorganic substances such as yourself -- with the crowning achievement being humanity.

You talk to man and befriend him. All he sees around him you have made for him. While he doesn't know it yet, eventually you will destroy it all as well as the majority of his descendents. He is, after all, your favorite creation. For those you opt not to destroy, though, there will be solace in the most perfect place in the world: heaven. Yes, it's true you could have skipped all the middle men and just created man here to begin with, but the mark of a true artist is suffering.

Man and woman are wonderful. Shortly after the destruction of the Earth the saints and sinners have been appropriately separated. The saints in heaven go about their business in a perfect world not knowing any evil while the sinners go about their suffering in hell not knowing any grace. Eternity can be a long time, and after several millennia has passed since the plagues and pestilence you begin to tire of this little charade.

It was lonesome spending eternity by yourself, but it's hell spending eternity watching the same thing over and over again. The saints and sinners just wash, rinse and repeat one moment after the next. You're no longer lonely, but now you're bored. The existence of humans, heaven and hell has been not even a blink in the eye of eternal existence. What purpose do they now serve? What use are they? You toss them out and begin painting again, taking a different route with different life forms this time. Perhaps this time around you'll give the world to the Platypus. That should make for an interesting distraction from the usual nothingess.

Has anybody really ever thought about their purpose for existence? Not just the purpose of their existence here on earth, but assuming they are real, the existence of even a soul. If God is truly the beginning and the end, before everything and outside of time, what purpose do humans possibly serve short of alleviating boredom or satisfying some struggling ego? For how long might humanity be important to such a being that exists without time or space, for an eternity both before and after human existence? Expanding our scope beyond reasons for being on Earth, might we just be the divine equivalent of sea monkeys?

Who's to say we're the only things he's ever made? "In the beginning...", perhaps just our beginning or the beginning of this universe. I don't know, I've thought about it, and it's odd, because if God is THE BEGINNING AND THE END, you're right, He'd get awfully lonely. I think in an infinite universe, there are infinite possibilities. Who am I to put limits on God. I hope we're not the only things in the cosmos He's created, it would make Him out to be sort of single minded and boring...

I think God created us at the beginning for company and to spark His imagination. If we're made in His image and our imaginations run wild, you could see the possibilities with Him...

You're right, Billy Jean, there isn't anything to say that he didn't create anything else. But of what significance are we to a God, assuming for this purpose that one exists? It may be fine and good for people to bow to his wishes to get to heaven, but is it really of any use if after a time such place as heaven will cease to exist, the very existence of the human soul will become worthless and be disposed of like the Earth at Armageddon? Is it worth it for the rat to win the race only to still be a rat at the end?

I don't think so, it says in the Bible that God is a Jealous God and that the Bride of Christ will worship His forever andever. All will be possible and there will be no suffering. God's definatly selfish and want's people to believe in Him, but for the right reasons, for love's sake. I see God when I see people treat one another well and in laughter and personal enlightenment. God, I think, takes joy in watching us grow personaly, intellectually and spiritually. Kinda like watching your kid learn things. I look at God like a father, I know that's typical to say, but if you think about it, your earthly father loves you, wants you to learn certain things and instilll certain principles in you so that you'll live a long and happy life. I think God's the same way, it's just that man has become lost, our eyes are fixed on other things and we don't pay attention to what God is saying to us, and not through the Bible only. I think there was a time when mankind all over the planet was closer to God, but we started to rely on ourselves and what we could do and started to forget about God, what God really is. God is perfection, like we once were, but God gave man a choice and man chose knowledge instead of God. that's when everything went to Hell in a hadbasket. Ever since then, we've been trying to become perfect but in all the wrong ways. God just wants our attention again, fewer and fewer people talk to Him. If we did, alot of the confusions people have would go away. Not that our lives would be perfect (Salvation to me is the path to that perfection) but it woud clarify and guide us and we wouldn't feel so alone....

Okay, but after all this growing, suffering and development, what's the purpose of human existence after Armageddon, in the grand scheme of eternity? It seems to me, presuming the existence of God, that humans only exist for the arbitrary purpose of entertainment or blind allegiance. And if that's all we're around for how long will we be kept around? We obviously weren't necessary before so why should we be necessary afterwards?

I believe, well my interpretation of what the afterlife will be like is "A new Heaven and a New Earth". I think that the saved will be transformed into perfect bodies and be able to create their own heaven, and that God will be among us and we'll be like God but acknowledge him as God. It could be possible that he'll redo Earth or some form of it and we could play apart in it, via Angels. I don't know we could be rulers over our own Earths... remember, this is from a Born Again Chirstians POV. This is what I hope for, a big family reunioun and all the mysteries of human history revealed to me. Why not!?

The problem with beliefs are, after all, that they are nothing but beliefs. You can believe anything you want. You can believe in UFOs. You can believe that this is all a dream and someday we'll wake up. You can believe in pink elephants and invisible gnomes.

The point isn't what you believe, but if your beliefs are actually true or not. No matter how heartfelt your beliefs might be, the strength of the belief doesn't make the belief right. Only those beliefs which are grounded in reality, those that can be supported and defended with objective evidence, are worthwhile. Sure, an unfounded belief, even a blatantly false belief, might be comforting, but what is better? A comforting lie or an uncomfortable reality?

Give me reality every time.

But the mysteries are all we truly have. It's the unknown, death, that's the only true uncertainty left in this world, one of the only constants: life and death. I would defentatly want a comforting lie about the afterlife than have no hope at all. I find great comfort in the here after. I go to bed soundly and full of peace. What's so great about the realities of this earth? You live,you work, you struggle, you have some joy and then you die. That's reality. Short and sweet. I believe with out a shadow of a doubt that there's more to us than that. If not, than there is no purpose and existance is purely to procreate and survive. What's science for? What's education for? Equal rights? Why better mankind if it's all in vain?

Lets Get Out the Shredder And the Flash Light


Do not take this as an offence but I think you might have started thinking.
My Purpose for existence is to Glorify my God, God gave me and all other human beings a soul so that we could be in communion with him and make worship possible. In the Beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. God said "Let it be done" and it was done. Where's the confusion in that. God made man because he is a creator God, because it is his nature to create and all of the creation he made for his pleasure and for mans learning. God is God and how can you have an ego if you are infinite. How can you be bored if you are triune, a trinity, three in one and this is the beauty of Our God(For he is the God of all people) One man can speak his mouth and if there is no other he is right what ever he says. If there is two men one man can say anything, and the other can say something else and they battle over which is right. Three men can converse and know all things for for every view there are two others and for every way of looking at something there are two others so only in Gods order can men attain perfection with a man his wife and their God. God is perfect and has given a promise to all those who put their faith in him that he shall give them eternal life and last time I checked a millennia didn't add up to infinity.
Divine Sea Monkeys - Here Only for God pleasure and enjoyment, Yes and No. Yes in that man was made perfect and it would be Gods will to teach man all the wonders of his creation and all that has not been, all that could be, could have been, and all that will be. So in that sense we were made for Gods good pleasure to worship him and for this were we made. No, man is now fallen and separate from his God and every deed a man does against God angers him greatly so we are now his displeasure, but he hath made us and made promises to us and because he is God he still loves us (something only God could do).
'The chief end of man is to glorify God' and we shall do this without end, for all eternity in heaven in the presence of the creator of all things.


I cannot answer this absolutely, I can only speculate on the nature of infinity and being outside time and space. From buddhist teaching you only exist if you have an influence on something that can be proved to exist and since we cannot prove anything actually exist we cannot be sure of our existence, Also a being proves its existence by interacting with what it senses and from making a change itself builds up a concept of reality. Now this is how the Christian God confounds all wisdom of men because as I have said above he is Triune, three in one, and because one exist so must the others because they have an infinite effect on the other and all being infinite exist as three in one. God is outside time so in a sense before man there was nothing but God who created the concept of time built the universal laws and spread out the earth below. But if time did not exist (I cannot get my head round this) God could be in all his glory all transcendant of all that he chose to do but until time had been created nothing happened, until space had been made there was just God. God is All, the Beginning and the End All. A Great infinite unknown, Incomprehensible in his perfection, so vast and wonderful and this is the God you all turn your back on.


I am sorry to quibble in pithy points but death is the only certainty in life for God hath said all men where born to die and the only thing that matters between death and birth is whether you have given back to God what you have taken by repentance of sin to christ who has promised that all who come shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Cephus - I can say I despise you most on this site for you are closed in thought and your picture alone is a direct affront and mockery of all that I believe, I leave my picture blank for it is not worthy for man to make an image of God whom in this life is whom I represent for all I am worth. Amen.
The problem with beliefs is that people don't want to believe them, refuse to believe them and see them as nothing but belief, but one belief must be correct and something must be the right thing that happened. Everything I believe is based on the fact (in my mind) that their is an infinite God and maybe you really think you can solve Gods wonders without him but that shall be your standing on the day of judgement.
The only thing that matters about a belief is whether it is right in the end. Question your beliefs and follow the path of wisdom (more buddhist, human and foolish wisdom) I shall hold my beliefs for as long as I live or until my Lord shall come, I shall take onboard the views of everyone and mine shall hold the test of time. For no man has greater wisdom than his creator and this is whom I serve. I have splashed my beliefs about for two years in questions, others thoughts and books and every time I did so I could not break them down for I saw the Love of Christ and I assure you there is no greater wisdom in this world than is recorded in the Bible (Gods inspired word) for God made mans power, mans wisdom and all that is, is Gods and Gods only.


I set up the topic on 'Where does Law come from?' to try to look at society in this light and our law is a good example of something God given and unquestionably necessary for society to stay standing but now held up without God in a futile gesture to keep the rains of sin from falling. What do you all carry on for. For all men know that they where made in the image of God, by him and for him, and that there is more to man than the physical realm. Come ye unto Christ and be ye saved.

God cannot be bored because he is not alone. He is three in one and perfect and all things are just and pure in the mind of God. No Evil thought can dwell in the mind of God and that is why he has made himself separate from us.

You are charged to "Love thy neighbor", not despise. "Judge not lest ye be judged". "Ye who have not sinned, cast the first stone." I see NOT Christ in your talk, but rather the PHAROSES.

Love all men for they are sin sick souls but show them the error of their ways that they to may follow christ.
I may despise a man for his acts but love him for he has a soul. I can say I despise all sinners for I hate sin, a pieous hatred of evil because I love the Lord my God with all my mind and heart and strength.
'Love thy neighbour as thy self' - if you hate yourself because ye are born in sin and love christ whom you know now in grace. You can despise a man for the wrong that they do and yourself for the wrong you do for no man is beyond reproach. Yet I say, I find what he says offensive to my belief, his image is a mockery of this and I despise his act that he should do this, yet I pray for and love him because I have a witness unto him of Christ Jesus.

No man is God, But God despises sin and in love he chastises for our benefit that we may learn so I in human form doth represent my God until he comes.

This is the justification for what I said, but read my comment as a show of pitty at how closed the eyes of the world are, and for cephus sake I pray that his eyes shall be opened.

If a man cut off your arm, do you cut off his. You may, but he hath done thee an injustice and he shall on the last day have to account for his actions. Because an action is judgable I may despise a man for such an action because he hath done this action against the God whom I serve.

Not in hate but in pitty and contempt for the world in which I live did I Say 'I despise' for I despise the world and all it stands for in its fallen state for my God is all to me.

It is not my place to enact judgemnet for that shall be done in due course, but in all the wisdom love and power that christ has given me I shall do his good pleasure and show the world his light. And this is our calling.

You are to love the sinner and hate the sin. Your rhetoric does more harm than good.
John 3:16 God didn't have dontempt for the world, He LOVED THE WORLD. He hates the sin of man, but NOT the sinner. How can God hate that which He created? He cannot. He hates how it's been coorupted by selfishness and pride: the original sin.

BJ, why do you believe that?

I don't mean "what evidence leads you to believe that", I mean "why do you feel that there has to be more to us than that?" or "[b]why isn't "you live, you work, you struggle, you have some joy, and then you die" enough for you?"

Your first thought might be that "the bible says so", but I'm searching deeper - for the reason that you find that particular message of the bible so comforting and so easy to believe. What is it about the way you think about yourself and your life (and presumably, those of other people to - you don't strike me as especially solipsistic) that makes you think that it has to continue in some way after bodily death?

I look at the human conscience like a hard drive of sorts. It saves information, emotions and memories. What is the point of the individual and the yearning for improvement if there is no additional application of these experience than our futile, short lifetime? To me, the moments of silence, inner thought and dreams reveal a subconcience that cannot be truly explained. We only use roughly 10% of our brains and the untapped portion is where the inner self resides. The fact of self awareness and mortality says to me that we're innately aware that there is a bigger picture.

I believe in the hereafter, because there are injustices now that go unchecked and I believe in karma. I think we are held to a higher standard. I think that our creativity and our imaginations are portals to the unknown. I think that LOVE is a human attribute and that true, selfless love is the telling side of God's fingerprint on us. What makes us have compassion? What makes us cry out at God in anger when things go horribly wrong? What gives us the sense of euphoria when we strive for peace and serenity in our lives?

To me God made us in His image, but intentionally gave us free will, that's the yearning for understanding and perfection. It's the yearning for knowing the unknown, the question "why?" that acknowledges God, to me.