Full Version: That Wacky Recall!
I think we're all familiar with the California Recall. But do you know who's really behind this circus?! 
Future of Gray Davis Could Be Decided by California Supreme Court
Yes, that's right this rich, corrupt Republican Congressman is leading the charge to steal the election from the beloved Grey Davis. Such an undemocratic move surely deserves no support and yet...
Public Supports Principle of Electoral Recall :Californians less likely to support recall principle, but more likely to support recall of own governor
It seem the Republicans have succeeded in brain-washing a majoriy of Californian into supporting this power grab.
A strategy is in the works to remind Californians of what they really believe by exposing Issa
Recall Opponents Target Issa
Such an extremist is cleary unfit fit for California.
Grey Davis himself has come out swinging thanking Democrats for standing behind him
Feinstein Rules Out Run for Calif. Gov.
This is of course before some insignificant traitors broke ranks.
'Terminator' in Calif. Recall Race
Do you think this recall is democratic or fair. Or do you see it for what it is, another ploy by those election-stealing Republicans?
QUOTE
Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., bankrolled the gathering of the more than 900,000 signatures needed to put the recall question before the voters, and has said he is putting his own name on the ballot.
Future of Gray Davis Could Be Decided by California Supreme Court
Yes, that's right this rich, corrupt Republican Congressman is leading the charge to steal the election from the beloved Grey Davis. Such an undemocratic move surely deserves no support and yet...
QUOTE
Among Californians, however, a slight majority -- 54% -- say they would vote to recall their governor, while 43% would not, and another 3% express no opinion. (A Los Angeles Times poll, conducted June 28-July 2, which included a sample of 1,127 registered voters in California, found similar results: 51% of registered voters supported the recall of Governor Davis, while 42% were opposed.)
Public Supports Principle of Electoral Recall :Californians less likely to support recall principle, but more likely to support recall of own governor
It seem the Republicans have succeeded in brain-washing a majoriy of Californian into supporting this power grab.
A strategy is in the works to remind Californians of what they really believe by exposing Issa
QUOTE
The campaign to recall Gov. Gray Davis took a negative turn Tuesday, with gun-control groups taking aim at San Diego Congressman Darrell Issa, a key figure in the recall movement. The groups say Issa's real goal is to destroy some of the strongest gun safety laws in the nation.
"The agenda of Congressman Issa and his backers is very clear and it's very dangerous to California. It would take us backwards and repeal our gun laws," said Luis Tolley, of the Brady Campaign to Stop Gun Violence.
Recall opponents released a videotape of the Great Western Gun Show, taken at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds in 1998, when Issa was running for the U.S. Senate. The show included displays of Nazi flags not far from Issa's own booth.
"We're not making the accusation that Darrell Issa is a Nazi. However, I think it is fair to ask the question why he chose to participate in an event like this," Taxpayers Against the Governor's Recall spokesman Carroll Willis said.
"The agenda of Congressman Issa and his backers is very clear and it's very dangerous to California. It would take us backwards and repeal our gun laws," said Luis Tolley, of the Brady Campaign to Stop Gun Violence.
Recall opponents released a videotape of the Great Western Gun Show, taken at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds in 1998, when Issa was running for the U.S. Senate. The show included displays of Nazi flags not far from Issa's own booth.
"We're not making the accusation that Darrell Issa is a Nazi. However, I think it is fair to ask the question why he chose to participate in an event like this," Taxpayers Against the Governor's Recall spokesman Carroll Willis said.
Recall Opponents Target Issa
Such an extremist is cleary unfit fit for California.
Grey Davis himself has come out swinging thanking Democrats for standing behind him
QUOTE
"To the extent that Democrats get in the race, it makes it look like a normal election, and legitimates what is really an effort by the right wing to steal back an election they couldn't win last November," he said. "I think at the end of the day people will realize that the party is better served rallying around its sitting governor."
Feinstein Rules Out Run for Calif. Gov.
This is of course before some insignificant traitors broke ranks.
QUOTE
But the aftershock from a day of topsy-turvy developments in the drive to recall Gov. Gray Davis came just hours later, when Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante broke party ranks to become the first prominent Democrat to declare his own candidacy.
Another Democrat, state Insurance Commissioner John Garamendi, will also take out papers to run, his press secretary said early Thursday.
The announcements from Bustamante and Garamendi seemed to crack the foundation of Davis' survival plan, which until Wednesday had been keeping fellow Democrats off the ballot.
Another Democrat, state Insurance Commissioner John Garamendi, will also take out papers to run, his press secretary said early Thursday.
The announcements from Bustamante and Garamendi seemed to crack the foundation of Davis' survival plan, which until Wednesday had been keeping fellow Democrats off the ballot.
'Terminator' in Calif. Recall Race
Do you think this recall is democratic or fair. Or do you see it for what it is, another ploy by those election-stealing Republicans?
Ahhh, the recall.
Living in California, I can tell you that the Republicans have been attempting recalls many, many times before.
I have seen nothing, within the months of Davis's reelection, that would warrant a recall. Before the election? Sure, but not after.
Thus, this recall is very unjust. But hey, the republicans are playing by the California rules. S
Living in California, I can tell you that the Republicans have been attempting recalls many, many times before.
I have seen nothing, within the months of Davis's reelection, that would warrant a recall. Before the election? Sure, but not after.
Thus, this recall is very unjust. But hey, the republicans are playing by the California rules. S
I would imagine that if I said that a democratic congressman was corrupt or brainwashing people, I would be called to back it up with facts.......... 
And the baseless allegation of election stealing is fodder for another thread.
But to answer your question.....they followed the law in California. The recall provision was written into the state constitution.
Undemocratic? no
Brainwashed? uh, ok whatever
And the baseless allegation of election stealing is fodder for another thread.
But to answer your question.....they followed the law in California. The recall provision was written into the state constitution.
Undemocratic? no
Brainwashed? uh, ok whatever
To be honest I have a bit of a problem with recall elections. It seems in our highly partisan times that the signature requirement is too easily met. California's problems preceded Davis's last election victory. I think recalls should primarily be utilized in case of corruption, and I believe that, even in that case, impeachment is a better option.
This recall option may actually stop politicians from imposing short-term bitter medicines in order to solve long-term problems.
Actually, the recall election is overly democratic
This recall option may actually stop politicians from imposing short-term bitter medicines in order to solve long-term problems.
Actually, the recall election is overly democratic
That was sarcasm! 
I too think that these complaints of election stealing are ridiculous. 
I too think that these complaints of election stealing are ridiculous.
Turnea,
Nice post, but full of eroneus information. Not being from California I wouldn't expect you to know as much about the situatiotn as I do. I have followed it extensively and even collected signatures (voluntarily of course).
I will not speak Partisanly on the issue, because quite frankly, this is not a partisan issue, Joe Davis' current approval rating statewide is 20% - that's what the latest polls show.
Daryl Issa, yes he's been bankrolling this for over 800,000 dollars, but that was only to get the signatures, someone had to do it, by the way...He only recieves less than a quarter of the vote in the latest recall polls Moving on, the DNC would probably like everyone to believe that this is rightwing shakenery and partisan politics, but the fact of the matter is that no one in the Democratic Party in even in Ca can say one nice thing about Davis. No one has stepped up to defend his record, because it is terrible. IN fact, in a period when the state grew by 3-4% Gray Davis extended Ca spending by 34.7%. That took place in a period of severe economic decline by the way, so he can't blame a national economy if he did nothing to prevent spending increases!!! He blundered his way through the electricity crisis, spending billions to save Edison, which was all along sticking it to the state anyway. But of course Enron is to blame, riiiiight. And then in the midst of the crisis, in order to save Edison, while all the political pundits said "wait to make a move" He went ahead and signed inflated contracts with out of state agencies. Then a month later , due to the national economy, the prices fell through the floor for electricity!!!
The DNC has clearly tried to make this a Republican V Democrat race, but every Democrat in CA know Davis is an idiot. That's why they are all jumping on the recall sheet as well.
As for your accusations that these last events will be played out in court, Completely false!!! The only reason they are in court now is because Davis himself is suing. What is he suig for??? At this point he wants to litigate having his own name on the ballot under the, "who should replace the governor, should he be ousted" area of the ballot. Ummm, do I spy trickery??? Yup.
In fact, just reading you articles and post, I can see.....you're not from Ca. You haven't followed this from day one like we have....and your bitter and trying to make this partisan....
You say Davis hasn't done anything wrong since the last election???? What about how he hid the deficit until one week after the election, claiming the debt was going to be around 11 billion. Bill Simon said the debt would be at minimum..24 billion. One week after the election the numbers magically appeared.....37 billion in the hole. But of course it wasn't his fault, his team miscalculated the numbers. And whiule Ca sits in this huge hole, he is able to raise 80 million to keep his own campaign going......I bet if he ran his camp like his state, he'd have been too broke to seek re-election
Even Danya, a staunch Democrat on this Debate site will tell you that Davis is a moron. In fact, find one Demo on Americasdebate from CA that thinks Grayout Davis is a good governor, and I'll be very surprised.
You might benefit from reading non-partisan news articles once and a while.
Nice post, but full of eroneus information. Not being from California I wouldn't expect you to know as much about the situatiotn as I do. I have followed it extensively and even collected signatures (voluntarily of course).
I will not speak Partisanly on the issue, because quite frankly, this is not a partisan issue, Joe Davis' current approval rating statewide is 20% - that's what the latest polls show.
Daryl Issa, yes he's been bankrolling this for over 800,000 dollars, but that was only to get the signatures, someone had to do it, by the way...He only recieves less than a quarter of the vote in the latest recall polls
Moving on, the DNC would probably like everyone to believe that this is rightwing shakenery and partisan politics, but the fact of the matter is that no one in the Democratic Party in even in Ca can say one nice thing about Davis. No one has stepped up to defend his record, because it is terrible. IN fact, in a period when the state grew by 3-4% Gray Davis extended Ca spending by 34.7%. That took place in a period of severe economic decline by the way, so he can't blame a national economy if he did nothing to prevent spending increases!!! He blundered his way through the electricity crisis, spending billions to save Edison, which was all along sticking it to the state anyway. But of course Enron is to blame, riiiiight. And then in the midst of the crisis, in order to save Edison, while all the political pundits said "wait to make a move" He went ahead and signed inflated contracts with out of state agencies. Then a month later , due to the national economy, the prices fell through the floor for electricity!!! The DNC has clearly tried to make this a Republican V Democrat race, but every Democrat in CA know Davis is an idiot. That's why they are all jumping on the recall sheet as well.
As for your accusations that these last events will be played out in court, Completely false!!! The only reason they are in court now is because Davis himself is suing. What is he suig for??? At this point he wants to litigate having his own name on the ballot under the, "who should replace the governor, should he be ousted" area of the ballot. Ummm, do I spy trickery??? Yup.
In fact, just reading you articles and post, I can see.....you're not from Ca. You haven't followed this from day one like we have....and your bitter and trying to make this partisan....
You say Davis hasn't done anything wrong since the last election???? What about how he hid the deficit until one week after the election, claiming the debt was going to be around 11 billion. Bill Simon said the debt would be at minimum..24 billion. One week after the election the numbers magically appeared.....37 billion in the hole. But of course it wasn't his fault, his team miscalculated the numbers. And whiule Ca sits in this huge hole, he is able to raise 80 million to keep his own campaign going......I bet if he ran his camp like his state, he'd have been too broke to seek re-election
Even Danya, a staunch Democrat on this Debate site will tell you that Davis is a moron. In fact, find one Demo on Americasdebate from CA that thinks Grayout Davis is a good governor, and I'll be very surprised.
You might benefit from reading non-partisan news articles once and a while.
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 7 2003, 02:42 PM)
In fact, just reading you articles and post, I can see.....you're not from Ca. You haven't followed this from day one like we have....and your bitter and trying to make this partisan....
johnlocke - turnea later said he interjected a little sarcasm into his opening question, no need to make it personal.
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 7 2003, 06:42 PM)
You say Davis hasn't done anything wrong since the last election???? What about how he hid the deficit until one week after the election, claiming the debt was going to be around 11 billion. Bill Simon said the debt would be at minimum..24 billion. One week after the election the numbers magically appeared.....37 billion in the hole. But of course it wasn't his fault, his team miscalculated the numbers. And whiule Ca sits in this huge hole, he is able to raise 80 million to keep his own campaign going......I bet if he ran his camp like his state, he'd have been too broke to seek re-election
Eh? If that was the reason Davis was being recalled, that should have been the number one thing the Republicans should harp on him about. But, living in California, you should know that this isn't true. I hear much more about the energy crisis and the deficit than I do about this alleged fraud.
The fact is, Gray Davis did probably lie about the budget. But you can't point the finger clearly at Davis, saying he himself lied, any more clearly than democrats can point the finger at Bush and claim Bush lied about WMD.
All in all though, I wouldnt be sad to see Davis leave. I would even vote for arnold and his pro-choice, gun-control stances.
Actually BH,
The main center of focus has always been Davis' in ability to lead. The fact that he waits until a problem becomes a crisis before he does anything about it.
Also in response to an allegation that Republicans always try to steal an election by using this ousting method, Since it's creation the recall has been tried over 30 times by Republicans and Democrats alike!!!
Also someone said something about a low number of people signing the recall petitions. Only 897,000 signatures were required. Over 1.3 million were verified in under two months.
The main center of focus has always been Davis' in ability to lead. The fact that he waits until a problem becomes a crisis before he does anything about it.
Also in response to an allegation that Republicans always try to steal an election by using this ousting method, Since it's creation the recall has been tried over 30 times by Republicans and Democrats alike!!!
Also someone said something about a low number of people signing the recall petitions. Only 897,000 signatures were required. Over 1.3 million were verified in under two months.
QUOTE(Hugo @ Aug 7 2003, 12:50 PM)
This recall option may actually stop politicians from imposing short-term bitter medicines in order to solve long-term problems.
Actually, the recall election is overly democratic
Actually, the recall election is overly democratic
In general I would agree with you, though I point out that I don't believe this is the case in this the upcoming California recall...
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 7 2003, 07:49 PM)
Actually BH,
The main center of focus has always been Davis' in ability to lead. The fact that he waits until a problem becomes a crisis before he does anything about it.
The main center of focus has always been Davis' in ability to lead. The fact that he waits until a problem becomes a crisis before he does anything about it.
And this suddenly became apparent during the short time between the Davis reelection and the recall?
Lets face it: there was nothing Davis did in between that time that warranted a recall (or at least nothing you could specifically pin on him).
Not that I'm sad to see him go.
QUOTE(BecomingHuman @ Aug 7 2003, 08:34 PM)
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 7 2003, 07:49 PM)
Actually BH,
The main center of focus has always been Davis' in ability to lead. The fact that he waits until a problem becomes a crisis before he does anything about it.
The main center of focus has always been Davis' in ability to lead. The fact that he waits until a problem becomes a crisis before he does anything about it.
And this suddenly became apparent during the short time between the Davis reelection and the recall?
Lets face it: there was nothing Davis did in between that time that warranted a recall (or at least nothing you could specifically pin on him).
Not that I'm sad to see him go.
BH,
As I said before, He lied about the size of the deficit because he thought that if he lied until the end of the election, he'd be in the clear. We're merely telling him he can't do that without repercussion. On top of all the old stuff.
The sad part is that Gray Davis is in a good position to buy votes, particularly in the Hispanic community by backing the "Driver's licenses for illegals" program. He previously was against the issue, but now that he needs the votes, he has flipped.
So this election could lead to some even WORSE governing (if that is at all possible
)
So this election could lead to some even WORSE governing (if that is at all possible
)
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 7 2003, 09:26 PM)
QUOTE(BecomingHuman @ Aug 7 2003, 08:34 PM)
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 7 2003, 07:49 PM)
Actually BH,
The main center of focus has always been Davis' in ability to lead. The fact that he waits until a problem becomes a crisis before he does anything about it.
The main center of focus has always been Davis' in ability to lead. The fact that he waits until a problem becomes a crisis before he does anything about it.
And this suddenly became apparent during the short time between the Davis reelection and the recall?
Lets face it: there was nothing Davis did in between that time that warranted a recall (or at least nothing you could specifically pin on him).
Not that I'm sad to see him go.
BH,
As I said before, He lied about the size of the deficit because he thought that if he lied until the end of the election, he'd be in the clear. We're merely telling him he can't do that without repercussion. On top of all the old stuff.
Can you send me a link that says Gray Davis, all by himself, lied to the California citizens about the deficit? (Confirmation, not editorials or speculation)
No. That's because he cannot be pinned on it. Nobody has any evidence that he had knowledge of the deficit and lied to the voters in order to win the election. That's why no one is calling Davis a liar. NO ONE. I haven't seen a single candidate say that Gray Davis intentionally lied about the deficit. They attack him on issues (Including the energy crisis, and the deficit itself) but not that Davis is a liar. I haven't even heard, on the many TV channels and internet sites I go to, that Gray Davis lying was the source of the recall. NONE.
Your probably right though, he most likely withheld that information until after the election. But all the evidence used against him has been from his past terms, nothing new.
If you can find evidence that Gray Davis is being recalled primarily because of his lie, more power to you. That would put my mind at ease that at least there is a reason he's being recalled this term and not a billion terms before. But I still don't see what he did during that slim time period (Besides lying, that you can't pin on him) that warrants a recall.
Just an update: Issa's out as of 4:00pm Wednesday 0807/2003....There goes the logic that he bank rolled this deal for himself, but if you were living in CA you heard him a lot on the radio and knew that anyway.
BH,
I'm very surprised that though you care about politics, which is supposed to be serving people, you don't care that Davis lied, spent the money of Californians on special interest groups and continues to pony up to them...even in Chicago!!!
I don't know how you can defend a politician based solely on the fact that he's Democrat, when even his own Party won't do that for him. If you live in California you realize a few things. This is an actual disaster, not a joke. This state went from being one of the richest, to the poorest. Now everyone is losing out, rich, poor, democrat, Green, Republican and on. All the services that used to be there for parents that couldn't afford child care, gone. Services for Senior citizens, gone. I can't believe you dance around like "oh, haha. Davis is a Democrat, hahaha". You don't know the level of crisis this state is in and you have fun kicking around the idea that Davis should stay in on any level, just to upset Republicans. But you haven't realized that this is not about Republicans V Democrats, this is about all the people of California taking the government back and not letting our governor break this state up and sell it like some political corporate raider! Don't think he is??? well he just sold another peice of California to the Chicago Unions, Lord knows what they have to do with California, but should he win, we'll all find out. Luckily that won't happen. I am garaunteeing a recall, here and now. I worked to get signatures and I'll continue to campaign: pro-recall, Pro-Arnold. As for you, I don't know how you sleep at night.
Edited to add:
BH,
I'm very surprised that though you care about politics, which is supposed to be serving people, you don't care that Davis lied, spent the money of Californians on special interest groups and continues to pony up to them...even in Chicago!!!
I don't know how you can defend a politician based solely on the fact that he's Democrat, when even his own Party won't do that for him. If you live in California you realize a few things. This is an actual disaster, not a joke. This state went from being one of the richest, to the poorest. Now everyone is losing out, rich, poor, democrat, Green, Republican and on. All the services that used to be there for parents that couldn't afford child care, gone. Services for Senior citizens, gone. I can't believe you dance around like "oh, haha. Davis is a Democrat, hahaha". You don't know the level of crisis this state is in and you have fun kicking around the idea that Davis should stay in on any level, just to upset Republicans. But you haven't realized that this is not about Republicans V Democrats, this is about all the people of California taking the government back and not letting our governor break this state up and sell it like some political corporate raider! Don't think he is??? well he just sold another peice of California to the Chicago Unions, Lord knows what they have to do with California, but should he win, we'll all find out. Luckily that won't happen. I am garaunteeing a recall, here and now. I worked to get signatures and I'll continue to campaign: pro-recall, Pro-Arnold. As for you, I don't know how you sleep at night.
Edited to add:
As a result of the just-passed budget, the deficit for 2004-2005 will be $8bn, considerably less than the numbers being thrown around. It is actually possible to make the case that Davis overstated rather than understated the deficit.
link
To claim that the current crisis is Davis' fault is stretching it, every state is in similar shape but to lesser degrees. Here in California, the .Com crash, 9/11 and the looting by Enron and El Paso made possible by Pete Wilson's de-regulation were all major factors. Regardless, the only justification for recall is some new fact that was not available to voters at the November election. It is a disenfranchisement of those voters that actually showed up to the polls to have their efforts undone by paid, out of state signature collectors in the parking lot at Sav-On. Lets face it, with enough money, you can find 900,000 people to sign anything!.
As for Darryl Issa, he definitely wanted the job, he just underestimated the competition he'd have and the fact that his shady past would start to surface. Dropping out is pure damage control, if the facts really come out, he'll lose his seat in congress in 2004.
tony
link
To claim that the current crisis is Davis' fault is stretching it, every state is in similar shape but to lesser degrees. Here in California, the .Com crash, 9/11 and the looting by Enron and El Paso made possible by Pete Wilson's de-regulation were all major factors. Regardless, the only justification for recall is some new fact that was not available to voters at the November election. It is a disenfranchisement of those voters that actually showed up to the polls to have their efforts undone by paid, out of state signature collectors in the parking lot at Sav-On. Lets face it, with enough money, you can find 900,000 people to sign anything!.
As for Darryl Issa, he definitely wanted the job, he just underestimated the competition he'd have and the fact that his shady past would start to surface. Dropping out is pure damage control, if the facts really come out, he'll lose his seat in congress in 2004.
tony
QUOTE(BecomingHuman @ Aug 7 2003, 06:56 PM)
The fact is, Gray Davis did probably lie about the budget. But you can't point the finger clearly at Davis, saying he himself lied, any more clearly than democrats can point the finger at Bush and claim Bush lied about WMD.
Davis not only lied about the budget, but he way he utterly mishandled the energy debacle was ridiculous. Davis purposely hid the extent to which he had virtually bankrupted the state until after the election, but that isn't the only reason he was re-elected. Bill Simon was simply a bad candidate and Davis was, at the time, the lesser of two evils.
Now that the extent of his economic failure is known, he's getting tossed out on his ear and hopefully Arnie can do some good.
London???
Last I checked London was on an island on the other side of the planet. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I know I'm not wrong about what's going on in my own state. Issa bank rolled the recall because he believes in it. Because he knows Davis has no business running this state. In fact had you listened to him when he was on 640am KFI several times over the last few weeks you would have found out about the so-called sordid past that really doesn't exist and Davis has been talking about for quite sometime. You would know that he has never been involved in crime. You would know that he has been misquoted by the LA Times, as usual and you would know that he stands alone compared to Davis in terms of owning up to anymistakes he made in his youth, whereas Davis now 55 and head of this state, can't take responsibility for his OWN actions. Let me tell you deregulation works when you don't have an idiot ruining the process and being taken advantage of for it.
Will someone please post a link for where they get all this misinformation? My state is dying and has been for three years. Instead of treating this like the serious situation it is, Democrats all over the US (and apparently london) balk, make it a Republican V Democrat issue and say that everything is fine. Well it's not fine and we didn't have these problems before Davis. We didn't have them until 2 years after he was elected into office. That's time enough for me to believe it's his fault. He has consistantly waited for every problem to turn into a crisis before he touches it. He needs to leave NOW!!!
As for the deficit. I don't know where anyone came up with an 8 Billion dollar deficit because right now it is 37-38 Billion dollars and that's not counting the extra 7 Billion he wasted from tabacco revenue. NEXT YEAR the budget crisis is expected to be at 8 Billion dollars, but that's only because Kevin Shelley has enacted an illegal car tax that triples what we now pay for our registration. On top of taxing heavily our college kids and the parents that pay for it! So, yes after a years worth of illegal taxes and cuts we'll be only 8 Billion in debt. You should really look up your numbers next time before you post them.
Save Our State.......PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last I checked London was on an island on the other side of the planet. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I know I'm not wrong about what's going on in my own state. Issa bank rolled the recall because he believes in it. Because he knows Davis has no business running this state. In fact had you listened to him when he was on 640am KFI several times over the last few weeks you would have found out about the so-called sordid past that really doesn't exist and Davis has been talking about for quite sometime. You would know that he has never been involved in crime. You would know that he has been misquoted by the LA Times, as usual and you would know that he stands alone compared to Davis in terms of owning up to anymistakes he made in his youth, whereas Davis now 55 and head of this state, can't take responsibility for his OWN actions. Let me tell you deregulation works when you don't have an idiot ruining the process and being taken advantage of for it.
Will someone please post a link for where they get all this misinformation? My state is dying and has been for three years. Instead of treating this like the serious situation it is, Democrats all over the US (and apparently london) balk, make it a Republican V Democrat issue and say that everything is fine. Well it's not fine and we didn't have these problems before Davis. We didn't have them until 2 years after he was elected into office. That's time enough for me to believe it's his fault. He has consistantly waited for every problem to turn into a crisis before he touches it. He needs to leave NOW!!!
As for the deficit. I don't know where anyone came up with an 8 Billion dollar deficit because right now it is 37-38 Billion dollars and that's not counting the extra 7 Billion he wasted from tabacco revenue. NEXT YEAR the budget crisis is expected to be at 8 Billion dollars, but that's only because Kevin Shelley has enacted an illegal car tax that triples what we now pay for our registration. On top of taxing heavily our college kids and the parents that pay for it! So, yes after a years worth of illegal taxes and cuts we'll be only 8 Billion in debt. You should really look up your numbers next time before you post them.
Save Our State.......PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do know that issuing bond does not constitute "balancing the budget" right?
$10.7 billion in bonds, I wonder what rate they will need to pay to sell those babies?
I also like the $4.4 billion in "internal borrowing and fund shifts". Robbing Peter to pay Paul, I guess. That looks like fuzzy math to me. (Actually, I looked into that and most of it is "fee increases" which do not need to be approved by the Legislature.)
That summary doesn't give the total size of the budget, which was originally around $99 billion vs. a $68 billion revenue.
I can't find that document on California Dept. of Finance page.
I am sure it will be there soon, though.
It IS nice to see almost $20 billion in spending cuts. I guess Davis is taking this thing seriously.
$10.7 billion in bonds, I wonder what rate they will need to pay to sell those babies?
I also like the $4.4 billion in "internal borrowing and fund shifts". Robbing Peter to pay Paul, I guess. That looks like fuzzy math to me. (Actually, I looked into that and most of it is "fee increases" which do not need to be approved by the Legislature.)
That summary doesn't give the total size of the budget, which was originally around $99 billion vs. a $68 billion revenue.
I can't find that document on California Dept. of Finance page.
I am sure it will be there soon, though.
It IS nice to see almost $20 billion in spending cuts. I guess Davis is taking this thing seriously.
QUOTE(johnlocke @ Aug 8 2003, 02:33 PM)
Just an update: Issa's out as of 4:00pm Wednesday 0807/2003....There goes the logic that he bank rolled this deal for himself, but if you were living in CA you heard him a lot on the radio and knew that anyway.
BH,
I'm very surprised that though you care about politics, which is supposed to be serving people, you don't care that Davis lied, spent the money of Californians on special interest groups and continues to pony up to them...even in Chicago!!!
I don't know how you can defend a politician based solely on the fact that he's Democrat, when even his own Party won't do that for him. If you live in California you realize a few things. This is an actual disaster, not a joke. This state went from being one of the richest, to the poorest. Now everyone is losing out, rich, poor, democrat, Green, Republican and on. All the services that used to be there for parents that couldn't afford child care, gone. Services for Senior citizens, gone. I can't believe you dance around like "oh, haha. Davis is a Democrat, hahaha". You don't know the level of crisis this state is in and you have fun kicking around the idea that Davis should stay in on any level, just to upset Republicans. But you haven't realized that this is not about Republicans V Democrats, this is about all the people of California taking the government back and not letting our governor break this state up and sell it like some political corporate raider! Don't think he is??? well he just sold another peice of California to the Chicago Unions, Lord knows what they have to do with California, but should he win, we'll all find out. Luckily that won't happen. I am garaunteeing a recall, here and now. I worked to get signatures and I'll continue to campaign: pro-recall, Pro-Arnold. As for you, I don't know how you sleep at night.
Edited to add:
BH,
I'm very surprised that though you care about politics, which is supposed to be serving people, you don't care that Davis lied, spent the money of Californians on special interest groups and continues to pony up to them...even in Chicago!!!
I don't know how you can defend a politician based solely on the fact that he's Democrat, when even his own Party won't do that for him. If you live in California you realize a few things. This is an actual disaster, not a joke. This state went from being one of the richest, to the poorest. Now everyone is losing out, rich, poor, democrat, Green, Republican and on. All the services that used to be there for parents that couldn't afford child care, gone. Services for Senior citizens, gone. I can't believe you dance around like "oh, haha. Davis is a Democrat, hahaha". You don't know the level of crisis this state is in and you have fun kicking around the idea that Davis should stay in on any level, just to upset Republicans. But you haven't realized that this is not about Republicans V Democrats, this is about all the people of California taking the government back and not letting our governor break this state up and sell it like some political corporate raider! Don't think he is??? well he just sold another peice of California to the Chicago Unions, Lord knows what they have to do with California, but should he win, we'll all find out. Luckily that won't happen. I am garaunteeing a recall, here and now. I worked to get signatures and I'll continue to campaign: pro-recall, Pro-Arnold. As for you, I don't know how you sleep at night.
Edited to add:
Eh? I found this post kind of absurd. I never said that I thought Davis was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm just saying that he did nothing within that time span that warranted a reelection. Obviously you can't pin anything on him since my request for proof was ignored.
You think I'm defending him solely because I'm a democrat? Well, lets take a look at my other post:
"All in all though, I wouldn't be sad to see Davis leave. I would even vote for arnold and his pro-choice, gun-control stances. "
"If you can find evidence that Gray Davis is being recalled primarily because of his lie, more power to you. That would put my mind at ease that at least there is a reason he's being recalled this term and not a billion terms before."
Does that sound like I'm saying: "oh, haha. Davis is a Democrat, hahaha".
I care that Davis lied. I care that were in a deficit now and I know that self-serving Davis tried to force other democrats not to run in the race and therefore damage the democrats.
I care about law first, and after that I take into account reason. This recall is done in perfect legality. Now I most question the motivation. Obviously Davis hasn't done anything (that can be pinned on him) that warrants a recall. Does that matter to me? YES. I'd like to think that we're pulling him out they're for evidence and reason and not speculation.
And hey, were in the same boat. I'm voting for Arnold too.
With a $38 billion deficit to close I'm surprised there are so many suckers that even WANT this lousy job. How's it going to be done without raising taxes, massive layoffs in state government or cutting services to the bone? I hope the California residents of this board demand not just entertainment, but ask the hard questions of the candidates.
All 3000 or so of them...
To an extent what we're seeing here is a "do-over." Davis isn't being recalled for corruption or high crimes. He's being kicked to the curb because the dot.com bubble burst and Enron manipulated California's energy crisis and he happened to be the poor jerk in charge when the toilet overflowed.
This is in effect "voter nullification" because as it stands, people who didn't bother to vote in the last guberatorical election are now going to remove Davis due to one ambitious obscure congressman who exploited an opportunity. I don't blame Darrell Issa for being partisan and finding a way to boot out an extremely unpopular governor. It just seems like something of a "do over."
Bill Maher said with what's going on in California and the Florida fiasco proves Republicans will do anything to win except get the most votes.
And the beat goes on...
All 3000 or so of them...
To an extent what we're seeing here is a "do-over." Davis isn't being recalled for corruption or high crimes. He's being kicked to the curb because the dot.com bubble burst and Enron manipulated California's energy crisis and he happened to be the poor jerk in charge when the toilet overflowed.
This is in effect "voter nullification" because as it stands, people who didn't bother to vote in the last guberatorical election are now going to remove Davis due to one ambitious obscure congressman who exploited an opportunity. I don't blame Darrell Issa for being partisan and finding a way to boot out an extremely unpopular governor. It just seems like something of a "do over."
Bill Maher said with what's going on in California and the Florida fiasco proves Republicans will do anything to win except get the most votes.
And the beat goes on...
QUOTE
Bill Maher said with what's going on in California and the Florida fiasco Republicans will do anything to win except get the most votes.
I have to admit, something about the recall gave me this same sneaking suspicion. Its a mere year and half before a new governor would be voted in correct? It seems to me it will cost California a lot to recall, reelect and reelect again in 2004.
Voter nullification appears to be a growing trend and in a state as large as California, a lucrative one.
ps. I never understood the Gray Davis vote the first time around, never mind the second.
Issa cried like a baby at his press conference when he dropped out of the race because of Arnold. I think he got just what he deserved. It was the only bright spot of the entire fiasco.
QUOTE(London2LA @ Aug 8 2003, 01:53 PM)
It is a disenfranchisement of those voters that actually showed up to the polls to have their efforts undone by paid, out of state signature collectors in the parking lot at Sav-On. Lets face it, with enough money, you can find 900,000 people to sign anything!.
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Aug 9 2003, 12:17 AM)
Bill Maher said with what's going on in California and the Florida fiasco proves Republicans will do anything to win except get the most votes.
Now that is the argument that I don't understand from the opponents of the recall.
1. Even with a lot of money I doubt you could find 900,000 in most states to sign a recall petition (unless you payed them off
). One would have to be one heck of an unpopular governor (which, of course, Davis is ) I believe the drive in Calfornia actually got significantly more than the required signatures. I don't think we can write this off as a fluke.2. As for disenfranchisement I'd draw your attention to the latest polls.
QUOTE
The recall election is scheduled for Oct. 7, and the poll, conducted over this past weekend, Aug. 7-10, finds 64% of registered voters supporting the recall, with 29% opposed.
To be clear the question asked was.
QUOTE
If the recall election were being held today, would you vote to -- [ROTATED: remove Davis from office, (or would you vote to) keep Davis in office]?
Schwarzenegger Leads California Gubernatorial Race
This recall certainly doesn't disenfranchise the voters of California. I think Hugo put it best...
QUOTE(Hugo @ Aug 7 2003, 12:50 PM)
Actually, the recall election is overly democratic
...if anything
QUOTE(turnea @ Aug 7 2003, 12:38 PM)
Do you think this recall is democratic or fair. Or do you see it for what it is, another ploy by those election-stealing Republicans?
Yeah it is fair and democratic. This is the "power of the people" because they choose who they want in office and if they dont like what he is doing and if he is screwing up, they can turn to a rare used process to get rid of him.
QUOTE(Artemise @ Aug 9 2003, 01:44 AM)
Its a mere year and half before a new governor would be voted in correct? It seems to me it will cost California a lot to recall, reelect and reelect again in 2004.
Davis was just elected in 2002 for a four year term. He is only 8 months into his current term...
Did anyone see the focus group done on "This Week" on Sunday? Of the 15 participants, 12 would vote yes on the recall, with 11 saying they would vote for Arnold. They want honesty out of Davis and said that if Davis came clean about the budget, they would be more likely to keep him. Half these people voted for Davis last election.
They also wanted Arnold to be more specific about his stance on issues.
I thought it was interesting.
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