Maybe most of the members here could read political book or watch informative television documentary program about a subject at the same time so we could have similar information to debate over. Kind of like those things where everyone in a city reads the same book. It could be a way to get more diverse opinions on subjects that some members usually don't post on due to unfamiliarity.
I would like imput from everyone on what they would like to do. If you have an idea for a book, TV program or someting else we could all do please give your opinion.

Rancid Uncle, I think this is a fabulous idea.

I think it's a good idea...because in many threads, I have no idea what's going on (but then, I don't keep up with the news like I should-my fault ). But unfortunately, I have no suggestions as to what we could read/watch. However, if and when this idea does pan out, I would be happy to participate.

I voted yes, but should have voted only if it's a book because I can't watch the same programs as are aired in the states since the military overseas network only airs a select few TV programs. Can't say for SURE I would follow through (story of my life ), but I would at least make the effort

I think it's a great idea too!

I'd go for the book idea.

I suppose it would depend on which book I was expected to read...

Same here, don't want anything by the ranting, raving, extremists, and I suggest a short list of books be presented so we can then vote on which one to read.

Something related, if there is a show coming up that might be informative on typical debate subjects here, there should be an announcement notice on the home page so we can be sure to watch it.

Good idea

I suggest two books be read simultaneously "The Affluent Society" by J.K. Galbraith and "Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman

We could read treason by Ann Coulter!
War on Terror:
Bush at War by Bob Woodward
Dreaming War: Blood for Oil and the Cheney-Bush Junta by Gore Vidal
Hatred's Kingdom: How Saudi Arabia Supports the New Global Terrorism by Dore Gold
When You Ride Alone You Ride with Bin Laden: What the Government Should be Telling Us to Help Fight the War on Terrorism by Bill Maher
List of books on terrorism
Economic Policy:
World on Fire: How Exporting Free Market Democracy Breeds Ethnic Hatred and Global Instability by Amy Chua
Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else by Hernando de Soto
The Lexus and the Olive Tree: Understanding Globalization by Thomas L. Friedman
The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels
The Commanding Heights: The Battle Between Government and the Marketplace That Is Remaking the Modern World by Daniel Yergin and Joseph Stanislaw
An index of econmic policy books
Foreign Policy
Crisis on the Korean Peninsula: How to Prevent North Korea from Becoming the Next Iraq by Michael O'Hanlon, Mike Mochizuki and Mike M. Mochizuki
Why Are We at War? by Norman Mailer
An index of Foreign Policy books

Education:
Tinkering Toward Utopia: A Century of Public School Reform by David Tyack
Schools for Sale: Why Free Market Policies Won't Improve America's Schools, and What Will by Ernest R. House
Manufactured Crisis: Myths, Fraud and the Attack on America's Public Schools by David C. Berliner, James Bell and Bruce J. Biddle
One Size Fits Few: The Folly of Educational Standards by Susan Ohanian
Voucher Wars: Waging the Legal Battle over School Choice by Clint Bolick
An Index of Education policy books


(I don't plan to create an exhaustive topic listing of everybook ever written because I don't have DSL, help looking for book/programs would be useful)

I voted yes, if it's a book.

But, nothing ridiculously cerebral. I have trouble staying awake for those types of reads

It's looking like this is going pretty well.

Once everyone decides what they want to read/watch, someone can post a topic in Casual Conversation (until we find a better place for it), and then ask one of the moderators to Pin the topic.

Oh, by the way, I'm the "other" vote, since I probably won't have too much time for this.

Mike

I know if this gets started, that my wife will be urging me to read the book with her, so I may as well get in on the fun.

Rancid Uncle seems to have provided the Ivy League summer reading list.

Perhaps someone can offer a shorter list to choose from?

I know that we have enjoyed The Bush Dyslexicon, but I doubt if those on the
Conservative side would find anything enjoyable there at all.

How about Propaganda and the Public Mind, by Noam Chomsky?

I was thinking that it might be a fun idea for some liberal folks to read a conservative book, chosen by conservatives, and then conservatives read a liberal book, chosen by liberals.

All reading one book is cool, but what would it be? I think choosing two would be better - one from the left, one from the right. Not everyone would make it through, but some would.

As far as the cost of these books, we could perhaps set up a mail exchange. I'd be happy to buy the book(s) and when I am done, mail them to someone else...

lot's of good ideas.

Most excellent idea, force us to think on the other side of the curve for a change.
Start with Al Franken's book, "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot".

Quarkhead, I think that's an outstanding idea!

To narrow the choice of books maybe we can decide on a topic for the book. For example if we choose foriegn policy we liberals could read a conservative forigen poilicy book and vice versa.

One that I read, and am about to read again, that I think is a good starter is
Declarations of Independence: Cross-Examining American Ideology

Author Howard Zinn is a History Professor and has also written 'A People's History of the United States' and about 10 other books on history and politics.

In this book, he "asks that we declare our independence of the experts and think for ourselves, while exploring the orthodox ideas that pervade our nation, or the American Ideology"

If you read this book, prepare to have your cherished beliefs challenged.

OH! OH! I've got the PERFECT book for us to read!

HILLARY CLINTON'S BEST SELLER!

What about a book available online? An ebook?

Alternatively, a website that has enough content to be a book?

I'd participate with paper-based if the book is available from the public library or has gone to paperback. We're pinching the pennies until Lincoln's eyes pop.

I like the idea of having the conservative side and liberal side each pick a book. How about electing people via the survey format to do the picking for each side?

Then, do threads for each chapter.

Maybe one for overview/overall analysis.

Could the book be a work of literature that illuminates conservative or liberal viewpoints? A biography or autobio?

Could a Harry Potter be put up against a Christian children's story?

Just some thoughts. This will be great fun if we can get it going!

If we do classics that are in the public domain, many of them can be downloaded for free from Project Gutenberg. They also have a search feature by library of congress class, so if we were to pick out a subject, we could search for a list of titles related to that subject.

I voted no, but not because I don't think it's a good idea, it's just that I've done this exact same thing in three other forums and it was a flop all three times. I just don't know if I can handle it again. Good luck though.

I have some book suggestions - (thank you Thomas for the inspiration).

I think it would be fun to do a compare/contrast of fictional, future-based political satires. My choices would be Huxley's Brave New World (which I know for a fact is online in it's entirety - I will get a link if anyone wants it), Orwell's 1984, and Bradbury's Farenheit 451.

I didn't read it, but Jaime also seemed to like "Amusing Ourselves to Death". Maybe that would be a good one, too.

Good choices, Jaime. I wouldn't mind reading any of those books again. I'm quite fond of dystopian fiction.

I think it would be best to at least start with classics like 1984 and Farenheit 451 before we move into books like Noam Chomsky and Al Franken. I'd also not be very inclined to read a book that's just a personal attack, a la Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, et al, which seems to be the majority of conservative literature these days.

I managed to find two of the three fictional classics online in their entirety.

Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
and
1984, George Orwell

I couldn't find a free version of Fahrenheit 451; it may still be under copyrite protection.

Besides Rattlesnake, Cyan & I - is there anyone else interested in classic fiction? Other titles?

I also managed to find Thoreau's Essay on Civil Disobedience, which is non-fictional, but still a classic. That one may be a good discussion topic also.

I'm game for reading 1984

Upton Sinclair's The Jungle Is also a good political read, or Orwell's Animal Farm

Another one that is in the public domain that would be interesting is Anthem by Ayn Rand.

I'm up for anything - classic fiction, politics, history - I love to read, so I'll read just about anything.

I would highly recommend any books by Howard Zinn. I think he really transcends left/right dichotomies (I'll bet BillAZ will concur here). While a lot of conservatives probably think of Zinn as a "leftist," his work is really about the politics and history of regular people and workers, as opposed to the interests of power - whether that power is labeled "Democrat" or "Republican."

Chomsky is one of the smartest guys in the world, but his work might be a little dense for general readership. I don't mean too complex, just that reading Chomsky is slower and more difficult.

One thing I'm thinking of - in what forum would such discussions be best placed? Casual Conversation might not be right, because we want to have debates on the issues in the books. This would be perfect stuff for a "Political Philosophy" forum...

How about some Adam Smith? Or Joseph Stiglitz? He was Chief Economist of the World Bank, headed up Clinton's Coucil of Economic Advisors, and has won a Nobel Prize for Economics.

The Jungle just beats you over your head again and again, and Ayn Rand tends to be preachy and obnoxious. I suppose it wouldn't be a terrilbe read, but we can without a doubt find better.

Rattlesnake, do you have any suggestions?

I am not really interested in rereading any of the fiction books mentioned, while I think they are all worth reading, I think that its all sort of "required" reading, and I would like to think that most of us has already read classics like 1984. And The Jungle ends up just being Communist propaganda towards the last few chapters. I think we should try to read a book that most of us haven't read (I know there are some books that a select few havent read) or as Quarkhead already pointed out a book for the left and the right. I am sort of interested in reading a book by a respected right wing author, since I dont know any. I am currently starting to read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast, and think it would be interesting to get a right wing perspective of it. Or a fairly neutral book I think is "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" by Thomas Friendman (as a friend of mine said "This will teach you everything you need to know about global economics") Or the Joseph Steiglitz book I also want to read.

And although Ive already read it, I think *eveyone* needs to read Zinn's "People's History of the United States" As it gives a great presentation of what you never learned in history class (with the exception of Jamie and all those other history majors :D) It does take forever to read though.

I am obviously biased towards non-fiction.

Which is why I like another of Zinn's book, "Declarations of Independence, Cross-Examining American Ideology". It is under 300 pages and asks us to examine our ideas, where we got them, why we don't have others, etc. and how we come to be dependent on "experts" who try to do our thinking for us.

I'll just come out and say this - I am not buying any books for this. I simply can't afford it. Nor can I be expected to be responsible enough to be part of a book-share. And don't suggest the Savannah library, it goes along with that responsibility issue (I have great difficulty in returning books so I don't borrow them)

I opt for something free we can find online.

Fiction is also my preference. I am a very slow reader of non-fiction and there is no way I could keep up with a book discussion.

But if you all chose non-fiction, don't worry about me. I don't have to participate. In fact, I think Ataal's a bit right in that many of us will say we want to do it, but won't. I just thought it would be fair to be upfront.

Edited to add: I gave this a little thought and I'd be OK with non-fiction, but it would need to be a primary source (autobiography, diary, etc.). It's the secondary sources that I am slow to read. Would anyone be interested in reading Booker T. Washington's Up From Slavery (that's a link to a full text version). It's been on my list for awhile now anyway. Just more thoughts!

Some of the books mentioned can be expensive, but you can build quite a library on the cheap by going to thrift stores, swap meets, yard sales, etc. if you have time for that kind of thing. My favorite thrift stores have set prices, typically $1 for hard cover, half that for soft cover. I even buy extra copies of some, if they are clean and new looking enough to give away as gifts, or to sell on eBay.

Try it some day when you have a few hours to kill, especially the thrift stores. You'll find your biggest competition is the guy selling used books out of his store for $5 and up!

BTW, thrift stores sell book shelves as well.

Jaime, I'd read Up From Slavery, as I've read it twice before (but don't remember much of it) so it wouldn't be that cumbersome (it's not very thick of a book either...maybe 150 pages?) for me right now.

I'll try to see what other full texts appear online. I know there are a ton of excellent slave narratives online, so if we wanted to do something a little less time consuming, that is another possiblity.

But I'll look into the full-text thing and see what turns up.

Another thing I hadn't thought much about until Jaime's post, but I really am not in a position to buy anything either. Living in Belgium, I can't walk into a thrift store and pick up a book, nor can I go to our base library and get anything relatively new (their library is pretty much stocked, if you can call it 'stocked' with reference materials and old classics). So it'll definitely have to be something I have in my possession or can easily borrow from someone (or is something I'd really wanted to read on my own already and can fork over the money for it).

I tend to agree with Jaime and Kmsouthern.

While I have no problem with the idea of buying a book to read, I think that it would be a better option, at least for the first experiment, to use a public domain text that is available online. Those who don't want to read books in this format are certainly welcome to pick a copy up from the library or the store, but doing it this way will ensure that everyone who wants to is able to participate.

I don't believe that Fahrenheit 451 is in the public domain yet, btw. I do know that there is an Adam Smith text, An Inquiry Into The Nature And Causes Of The Wealth Of Nations at Project Gutenberg

Edited to add: Should we set a cut-off date and time for suggestions, and then create a poll based on the books that have been suggested?

I agree. RU - since this was initially your idea, you deserve say in how this will go. Would you like to create a new poll? What options should be included?

I've got a few good ones - Catch-22 By Joseph Heller, On the Road by Jack Kerouac, The Island of Dr. Moreau by H. G. Wells, Paradise Lost by John Milton (just a poem, if even an epic poem,) Crime and Punishment by Dostoyevski(sp?), The Illiad and The Oddesy by Homer, The Aneaid by Virgil, The Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad, The Rebel, The Stranger and Caligula by Albert Camus, Les Mouches and Being and Nothingness by Jean-Paul Sartre.


I guess that's more than a few. I'll let Ranciduncle choose what to put up as a poll. But I might suggest that we have two rounds of polling, so that one reduces a large number of works, like 10 or 15, to something small, such as 3 or 5, then we choose from that smaller list.

I second Catch 22 as a great satirical book. It's my all time favorite. I didnt' mention it because I'm not sure it qualifies as informative exactly. I'm not certain that those unfamiliar with the inner-workings of the military will catch the irony and truth.

Well, it's certainly got meaning beyond that. Quite a lot of the observations made were not just about the American military, but about warfare, the effects of warfare on people and the human condition. I'm reminded of a few quotes:


"Racial prejudice is a terrible thing, Yossarian. It really is. It's a terrible thing to treat a decent, loyal Indian like a n----r, k--k, w-p or s--c."

"'Me big man' he would should. 'Me big photographer from Life magazine. Be picture on heap big cover. Si, si si! Hollywood star, multi dinero, multi divorces. Multi ficky-fick all day long.'

Few women anywhere could resist such wily cajolery, and prostitutes would spring to their feet eagerly and hurl themselves into whatever fantastic poses he requested of them. Women killed Hungry Joe. His response to them as sexual beings was one of frenzied worship and idolatry. They were lovely, satisfying beings, maddening manifestations of the miraculous, instruments of pleasure too powerful to me measured, too keen to be endured, and too exquisite to be intended for their employment by base, unworthy man. He could interpret their naked presence in his hands as only a cosmic oversight destined to be rectified speedily, and he was driven to make what carnal use of them he could in the fleeting moment or tow he felt he had before Someone caught wise and whisked them away. He could never decide whether to furgle them or photograph them, for finding almost impossible to do either, so scrambled were his powers of performance by the compulsive need for haste that invariably possessed him. The pictures never came out, and Hungry Joe never got in. The odd thing was that in civilian life Hungry Joe really had been a photographer for Life magazine."


"Kraft was skinny, harmless kid from Pennsylvania who wanted only to be liked, and was destined to be disappointed in even so humble and degrading an ambition. Instead of being liked, he was dead, a bleeding cinder on the barbarous pile whom nobody had heard in those last precious moments while the plane with one wing plummeted. He had lived innoculously for a little while and then had gone down in flame over Ferrara on the seventh day, while God was resting, when McWatt turned and Yossarian guided him in over the target on a second bomb run because Aafry was confused and Yossarian had been unable to drop his bombs the first time."

How about Angela's ashes? THat is a very interesting book, as well as non-partisan.

I would be interested in reading Angela's Ashes.

I could go with Brave New World, 1984, Civil Disobedience, Anthem, Up From Slavery, or The Wealth Of Nations. They may be classics in varying degress and many of us may already be familiar with some of them, but all of them relate to various extant threads here and they all have the advantage of being readily available to everyone who participates.

If we were opting for books that would have to be borrowed or purchased (which is probably not the best idea), I'd endorse anything by Howard Zinn - I think he is prerequisite for anyone interested in American history or politics. As Joseph Heller has already come up, I would heartily recommend Picture This to anyone interested in philosophy, government, art, commerce, warfare, and/or historical fiction - and it's considerably shorter and sharper than most of his other works.

I await Rancid Winfrey's poll...

Any chance we could avoid the standard High School fare? I'm thinking 1984, Brave New World, etc.

May I say, Rancid Uncle, excellent gathering topic! Capitol! May I recommend The Ten Things You Can't Say In America by Larry Elder? It contains a plethora of great debatable topics that will have many a Green and Libertarian locked in a verbal dogfight. Cheerio!

just make sure they arnt big (i work in a library i wouild know which books are big ) i have a short attention span. But i think that we should have a chat on the book rather then a forum chat

well g2g to work see ya