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America's Debate > Archive > Assorted Issues Archive > [A] Science and Technology > [A] Health and Medicine
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Thomas
For full article Gulf War illness

QUOTE
nearly half of the 697,000 Gulf War I Veterans are now ill and why over 200,000 of those servicemen/women have requested disability, but have received no adequate diagnosis or treatment, from either the Department of Defense (DOD), or Veteran’s Affairs.


These are shocking figures! Whats most desturbing or should (if you have any conscious) be is the fact that healthy, young American soldiers are starting to die as well.

QUOTE
The DOD recently has been forced to announce the “mystery” deaths of Gulf War II soldiers and that at least 100 other men and women have become ill.



One one case in particular;

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One of the most surprising statements to come from The Power Hour interview conducted on “The Genesis Network” was that while the son, Josh Neusche, was a healthy young soldier on June 26, 2003, when he reported that he was going to serve on the secret hauling mission, by July 1, 2003, he was in a coma, and that day was suddenly classified by the military, as medically retired from the Army without Josh or his family’s consent.


Notice the reaction of the DOD.

Now if you Americans really support "your boys", why don't you get your government to open up on what the illness is?
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GoAmerica
I heard about this. It's another mystery coming from Iraq

I remember reading an article that was partially related to this and it said that a rouge group in Iraq gave the US troops SARS. The military health department and the CDC debunked this claim because the symptoms were all wrong.

I am on the hunt for that article


If the gov't has something classified under it's belt, it's not really wise to get them to "open up"
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(Thomas @ Aug 10 2003, 12:14 AM)

Now if you Americans really support "your boys", why don't you get your government to open up on what the illness is?

Perhaps they don't know the cause.
Iraq is an environmental catastrophe. Looters have dumped radioactive uranium into the ground and use the containers to store food and water to wash their clothes. It isn't much of a surprise that our soldiers are getting sick.
The first Gulf War illness was often contagious. Soldiers brought it home and infected their spouses and children, and conceived children with birth defects. Hopefully this time won't be the same.

We actually had a thread on this a while back:
http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index...opic=1752&st=0&
Thomas
Actually, this may be the reason for the ill health. Uranium was used in this conflict as well.

http://www.rimbaud.freeserve.co.uk/dhap99f...9f.html#PREFACE

More modern link, in relation to the war on Iraq. Ironically, it seems that the Allies have created a long-term disaster for the Iraqi people, the ultimate weapon of mass destruction.

http://www.eoslifework.co.uk/u23.htm

Paladin, I hope so too, but it doesn't look promising.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(Thomas @ Aug 10 2003, 07:18 AM)
Actually, this may be the reason for the ill health. Uranium was used in this conflict as well.

http://www.rimbaud.freeserve.co.uk/dhap99f...9f.html#PREFACE


I thought this might lead to a Depleted Uranium thread.
The pathogenesis of the current illness for soldiers over in Iraq is too quick for it to be DU.

To put DU radiation in perspective, a person driving a DU armored tank for 20 hours would receive .036mSv units of radiation. A person traveling in a jet plane for 20 hours would receive .1mSv radiation. A jet plane is almost 3 times as radioactive as DU. There are radioactive materials occuring naturally everywhere.The average person living in the United Kingdom receives 2.6 mSv per year, but some up to 100mSv.
The amount of radioactivity of a material depends on its half-life. Depleted Uranium has a half life of 4.5 billion years.
DU is only potentially harmful if inhaled as dust, or perhaps ingested. Because the (very very low dose) radiation would be retained within the body for a person's life, that could certainly be cause for concern.
Most of the above information, along with an explaination of the mSv unit, can be found at the following sites:

http://www.civilservant.org.uk/du.shtml

http://www.civilservant.org.uk/radiation.shtml
Thomas
The point is Mrs Pigmen, is that because the war vastly greater amounts of uranium has been used, causing potentially damaging ill health to soldiers and the people.

See: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/JOH308A.html

QUOTE
Depleted uranium weapons used by the U.S.-led forces in the war have left battle sites throughout Iraq contaminated with abnormally high levels of radiation.

Dan DeLong / P-I A war-damaged Iraqi tank rests along the highway next to a school on the outskirts of Baghdad. Depleted uranium weapons were used in populated areas in Iraq. Although there is no firm consensus, nuclear experts and laymen alike generally agree that depleted uranium, which is toxic as well as radioactive, is at the very least a potential cause of cancers and birth defects. Some Iraqi physicians and others blame depleted uranium weapons used in the 1991 Gulf War for a major increase of cancers and birth defects that occurred a few years later. It is also a prime suspect for the Gulf War Syndrome that has sickened and killed thousands of U.S. veterans.

The Pentagon and United Nations estimate that U.S. and British forces used 1,100 to 2,200 tons of armor-piercing shells made of depleted uranium during attacks in Iraq in March and April -- far more than the estimated 375 tons used in the 1991 Gulf War.

U.S. tanks, Bradley fighting machines, A-10 attack jets and Apache helicopters routinely used depleted uranium rounds, but in the recent war, the ammunition was used in and near heavily populated areas, not just in the desert.


I'm no scientist, so I can't verify what these different sources are saying, but I'm deeply desturbed. Does anybody with a science knowledge care to evalute these claims? unsure.gif

Thankfully I didn't fight in Iraq sad.gif ermm.gif
Mrs. Pigpen
I think I've provided enough food for thought with my links. Consider that DU is quite innocuous in its solid state. The powder might be harmful, if actually ingested or inhaled in large quantities (because it would remain in the body). With all of the environmental hazards over in Iraq (to include direct dumping of TRULY radioactive materials at nuclear reactor sites) I am curious why you would blame DU. unsure.gif We know that the Iraqis possessed chemical weapons agents during the first gulf war. We know both they and the Iranians liberally doused each other and the soil is probably contaminated. There is reason to believe they might have used the agents against our troops as well, during that time frame.

Either way, the pathogenesis of this disease (gulf war II illness) is extremely fast to be DU. Consider that A10 pilots fly all of their combat missions with DU casings between their thighs, with no unusual predisposition to birth defects.
Abs like Jesus
From everything I read I still consider the use of depleted uranium to be a mistake, but I don't think it has anything at all to do with the mystery illness seen in Iraq. Yes, there are experts throughout the world who feel depleted uranium may contribute to cancer and birth defects, but that isn't what we are seeing in Iraq with this illness. Symptoms are closer to pneumonia, something which, to my knowledge at least, has not ever been tied in with studies of DU.

The onset of this new mystery illness is also too fast to be related to the use of DU. The number of soldiers sick doesn't really exceed army expectations based on the occurence of illness in other wars in the past. These things happen. It is not out of the ordinary and it is highly unlikely that it has anything to do with the use of DU.

Without knowing specifically what it is just yet, the government really has nothing to open up about in regards to this new illness.
Thomas
Good god, it seems that British/American troops and the Iraqi people seem to have faced multiple threats to their heath.
First, I remain highly sceptical about the claim that radioactive uranium isn’t a threat to a soldiers/civilian life. Even if this factor isn’t the reason for the recent spate of deaths and injuries among soldiers, it seems probable that war vets will have a higher likelihood of cancer.

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/poison.htm

QUOTE
“NEW evidence that Gulf war syndrome exists and was caused by radiation poisoning will be revealed today by a former American army colonel who was at the centre of his government's attempts to diagnose the illness.
Dr Asaf Durakovic will tell a conference of eminent nuclear scientists in Paris that "tens of thousands" of British and American soldiers are dying from radiation from depleted uranium (DU) shells fired during the Gulf war. “


Furthermore, another risk for American/British soldiers is the controversial us of vaccines like anthrax, which seem to have led to illnesses among soldiers.

QUOTE
“Riley, who served as a captain in the United States Air Force and flew on C-130 missions in support of Operation Desert Storm, never served in the Gulf. Yet, she says, she became ill in 1991 with symptoms like those of Gulf veterans. She and others charge they were ``guinea pigs'' for experimental uses of vaccines.

The Department of Defense acknowledges some 90,000 veterans have symptoms ranging from headaches and joint pain to more serious problems, according to Lt. Col. Dian Lawhon, of the department's Office of the Special Assistant for Gulf War Illnesses. About 20,000 veterans in this group have undiagnosed illnesses.

One instance of the release of sarin gas has been confirmed , Lawhon said. One vaccine was used in an attempt to protect some troops from possible exposure to a deadly nerve gas. Its use for this purpose was ``investigational,'' according to Lawhon. Long-term effects of sarin gas and the vaccine are not known. About 150,000 troops received anthrax and about 8,000 troops, mostly special forces, received treatments meant to protect them against botulism.”


http://www.gulfwarvets.com/pioneer.htm

Since I remember reading that just before the war American soldiers were refusing to take their anthrax vaccine, it seems that the same were used in GWII. In other words, along with the uranium in the weapons, the Pentagon and the MOD haven’t done anything differently since 1991.

That means that we may see similar numbers of troops being infected with mysterious illnesses.

QUOTE
The American Gulf War Veterans Association estimates 300,000 of the 700,000 troops serving at the time of the Gulf War conflict are sick as a result of their military duty.
``The American public is not aware at all of the severity of the illness and the numbers of people ill,'' says Joyce Riley, a spokesperson for the veterans group.

The group has concluded that some veterans are suffering from a communicable disease that has been passed on to spouses and children, according to Riley, who planned to speak on the issue today at the Capitol.


So, even children are getting at least one type of this diseases. Is this how civilised nations treat their troops? sad.gif
moif
Here is a very interesting article which sheds some light on Gulf War Syndrome.

http://www.millersgulfwar.org/index1.html


Also, here is a site which looks in depth at Veterans of the first gulf war, and if you follow the link marked 'Tracings' contains many first hand accounts of Soldiers who served in GW1 and whom later contracted GWS.

http://www.gulfweb.org/


Also, this is not a matter confined to US soldiers;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...,964192,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0...,976973,00.html

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/23/...6220529069.html


Also, depleted uranium is not very toxic in its solid form. It becomes dangerous when it is atomised in the explosions that occur when a DU tipped shell is used. The residue from this stays in the environment, and any soldiers or civilians who move through the area there after, will be breathing DU straight into their lungs, and thus their blood stream.

DU is extremely dangerous, and should be banned because of its after effects.

Here is a Canadian article which describes why;

http://www.ccnr.org/bertell_book.html


And here is a very disturbing article which looks at the Anthrax vaccines which were used on coalition troops;

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/O...GulfWarSynd.htm
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Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(moif @ Aug 10 2003, 11:23 AM)
And here is a very disturbing article which looks at the Anthrax vaccines which were used on coalition troops;

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/O...GulfWarSynd.htm

There are a number of experimental vaccines (to hinder the effects of potential biological and chemical weapons) which were also used on our troops. I would be hesitant to blame the anthrax vaccine for such extreme ill effects, because many soldiers who have never been to the Gulf are also required to take them. Mr P had his complete 6 shot series right before we conceived our first son, as well as many others I know. No one that I know has seen ill effects of anywhere near that magnitude.
CruisingRam
This whole topic scares the bejebus out of me. Lost one uncle to agent orange from vietnam. 2 family members where in GW1, and 3 are actually in Iraq now, with only 2 of them being "combat" troops, though this time there are no safe areas, the helo pilot doesn't go into the "contaminated" areas I hope. Real scary stuff, but they are all healthy so far!
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Aug 10 2003, 10:55 PM)
This whole topic scares the bejebus out of me. Lost one uncle to agent orange from vietnam. 2 family members where in GW1, and 3 are actually in Iraq now, with only 2 of them being "combat" troops, though this time there are no safe areas, the helo pilot doesn't go into the "contaminated" areas I hope. Real scary stuff, but they are all healthy so far!

It scares me, too CR ermm.gif I'm glad to hear your relatives out there haven't suffered any illl effects. Sorry about your uncle.
GoAmerica
It scares me as well. Especially hard because i have a cousin in the 3rd Infantry division stationed at Baghdad International Airport and i fear it might spread worse then it already is
CruisingRam
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Aug 11 2003, 02:32 PM)
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Aug 10 2003, 10:55 PM)
This whole topic scares the bejebus out of me. Lost one uncle to agent orange from vietnam. 2 family members where in GW1, and 3 are actually in Iraq now, with only 2 of them being "combat" troops, though this time there are no safe areas, the helo pilot doesn't go into the "contaminated" areas I hope. Real scary stuff, but they are all healthy so far!

It scares me, too CR ermm.gif I'm glad to hear your relatives out there haven't suffered any illl effects. Sorry about your uncle.

Thanks for the condolence- in our family burying Soldiers is an all too common practise- and my generation's kids in our family is the first to have to consider burying our daughters as well. Funny- none of us get political until we get out, about all I knew or cared about was my chain of command politics wise- and Ronald Reagan was at the top according to my "smart" book LOL

I spent all my money on women, booze and cars, the rest of my money I wasted- all the while, my family was at home debating our role in Central America, while I was spoiling to go kill somebody with all the training I received (seems harsh, but I was a gung ho guy in a gung ho unit) , same as now with the Gulf war. Funny how the cycle continues.

BTW- my family is super WW2 sensitive- most costly war for my family since the revolution- 9 family members killed, all my grandmothers brothers, and 1 fiancee and 1 husband.
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