Full Version: FEMA
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FEMA - The Secret Government
By Harry V. Martin with research assistance from David Caul
By Harry V. Martin with research assistance from David Caul
http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html
This report is a really scary analysis of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Here is the introduction:
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Some people have referred to it as the "secret government" of the United States. It is not an elected body, it does not involve itself in public disclosures, and it even has a quasi-secret budget in the billions of dollars. This government organization has more power than the President of the United States or the Congress, it has the power to suspend laws, move entire populations, arrest and detain citizens without a warrant and hold them without trial, it can seize property, food supplies, transportation systems, and can suspend the Constitution.
Not only is it the most powerful entity in the United States, but it was not even created under Constitutional law by the Congress. It was a product of a Presidential Executive Order. No, it is not the U.S. military nor the Central Intelligence Agency, they are subject to Congress. The organization is called FEMA, which stands for the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Originally conceived in the Richard Nixon Administration, it was refined by President Jimmy Carter and given teeth in the Ronald Reagan and George Bush Administrations.
FEMA had one original concept when it was created, to assure the survivability of the United States government in the event of a nuclear attack on this nation. It was also provided with the task of being a federal coordinating body during times of domestic disasters, such as earthquakes, floods and hurricanes. Its awesome powers grow under the tutelage of people like Lt. Col. Oliver North and General Richard Secord, the architects on the Iran-Contra scandal and the looting of America's savings and loan institutions. FEMA has even been given control of the State Defense Forces, a rag-tag, often considered neo-Nazi, civilian army that will substitute for the National Guard, if the Guard is called to duty overseas.
Not only is it the most powerful entity in the United States, but it was not even created under Constitutional law by the Congress. It was a product of a Presidential Executive Order. No, it is not the U.S. military nor the Central Intelligence Agency, they are subject to Congress. The organization is called FEMA, which stands for the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Originally conceived in the Richard Nixon Administration, it was refined by President Jimmy Carter and given teeth in the Ronald Reagan and George Bush Administrations.
FEMA had one original concept when it was created, to assure the survivability of the United States government in the event of a nuclear attack on this nation. It was also provided with the task of being a federal coordinating body during times of domestic disasters, such as earthquakes, floods and hurricanes. Its awesome powers grow under the tutelage of people like Lt. Col. Oliver North and General Richard Secord, the architects on the Iran-Contra scandal and the looting of America's savings and loan institutions. FEMA has even been given control of the State Defense Forces, a rag-tag, often considered neo-Nazi, civilian army that will substitute for the National Guard, if the Guard is called to duty overseas.
What are your thoughts on FEMA? Is this entity Constitutional?
The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) official task is to prepare for national emergencies and the executive created it. Many of the liberal/radical right elements see a more sinister agenda of FEMA, its difficult to know whether there suspicions are correct, but FEMA does have immense powers.
FEMA is a bit like the German Article 48, where the president can declare a state of emergency and assume dictatorial powers; President Hindenburg used it to destroy democracy. Recently, with the change, FEMA has come under the control of Homeland Security a mammoth internal security monolith.
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/
A critic of Homeland Security:
http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine08112003.html
FEMA is certainly not constiutional, it was created by presidential fiat, and as no meaningful Congress oversight. Homeland Security could easily become the domestic security apparatus of the Bush regime.
FEMA is a bit like the German Article 48, where the president can declare a state of emergency and assume dictatorial powers; President Hindenburg used it to destroy democracy. Recently, with the change, FEMA has come under the control of Homeland Security a mammoth internal security monolith.
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/
A critic of Homeland Security:
http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine08112003.html
FEMA is certainly not constiutional, it was created by presidential fiat, and as no meaningful Congress oversight. Homeland Security could easily become the domestic security apparatus of the Bush regime.
I don't like FEMA. as thomas points out, they have immense powers. they become the government if the president says so. they have also built CONCENTRATION CAMPS! (more- presidential EO's regarding taking over infrastructure and info on fema)
I think this was probably set up with good intentions, but the potential for abuse is very high. all it takes is a president using a terrorist attack (not necessarily commiting one, but manipulating one. as happened with the passage of the patriot act) to declare a national emergancy, and instituting the FEMA laws. congress is essentially disbanded and fema takes over. this is kind of scary.
I also think that fema is unconstituional as it WAS created using an EO. (therefore subverting the constitutionally described method of passing laws) and think they should be disbanded (as well as ALL EO's nullified) and made through democratic process.
I think this was probably set up with good intentions, but the potential for abuse is very high. all it takes is a president using a terrorist attack (not necessarily commiting one, but manipulating one. as happened with the passage of the patriot act) to declare a national emergancy, and instituting the FEMA laws. congress is essentially disbanded and fema takes over. this is kind of scary.
I also think that fema is unconstituional as it WAS created using an EO. (therefore subverting the constitutionally described method of passing laws) and think they should be disbanded (as well as ALL EO's nullified) and made through democratic process.
It's clear that Executive Orders got out of hand some time ago.
I read the article. Would the Attorney General be the de facto ombudsman for this organization? What's to stop FEMA from withholding information even from the Attorney General?
I thought it was just for coordinating assistance in times of disaster. This is really scary. Thanks for the link, Billy Jean!
I read the article. Would the Attorney General be the de facto ombudsman for this organization? What's to stop FEMA from withholding information even from the Attorney General?
I thought it was just for coordinating assistance in times of disaster. This is really scary. Thanks for the link, Billy Jean!
I dont really like the idea of FEMA also.
For the bit on the concentration camps within the us, im weiry of that idea, the link you gave me, seems quite, unprofessional. Back it up with some real information, instead of a propaganda piece.
If these such camps are true, who is to be housed here? Is this 1984 all over again? I think not. Abandoned Military Bases is what they are, no other.
For the bit on the concentration camps within the us, im weiry of that idea, the link you gave me, seems quite, unprofessional. Back it up with some real information, instead of a propaganda piece.
If these such camps are true, who is to be housed here? Is this 1984 all over again? I think not. Abandoned Military Bases is what they are, no other.
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The first targets in any FEMA emergency would be Hispanics and Blacks, the FEMA orders call for them to be rounded up and detained. Tax protesters, demonstrators against government military intervention outside U.S. borders, and people who maintain weapons in their homes are also targets. Operation Trojan Horse is a program designed to learn the identity of potential opponents to martial law. The program lures potential protesters into public forums, conducted by a "hero" of the people who advocates survival training. The list of names gathered at such meetings and rallies are computerized and then targeted in case of an emergency.
That scares me.
If this is really there. It should be stopped. This is a gross defect away from the way things ought to be run.... God, I am one of those protesters....
Monty
After looking through the links provided by Unabomber, I can say that the 'concentration camp' in mississippi, just outside of Camp Shelby is used for training by our Army and Special Forces units. We frequently set up mock villages, POW camps and infrastructure because it is the most realistic way to train for doctrine and missions.
I can't speak for any of the other sites.
I can't speak for any of the other sites.
Folks, the people who staff FEMA are American citizens just like you. FEMA is not a 'secrete government'. What would the point of that be? Articles like this are alarmist and crazy.
As a matter of practicality, how many people do you think it would take to build a list of all the people this article claims FEMA targets? How many 'agents' do you think it would take to maintain that list so FEMA could locate those people and 'round them up'? If you had 100,000 agents each one would have to track approximately 2500 Americans.
Don't you think that out of 100,000 people at least 1 person would leak information about a disgusting, anti-freedom, anti-American plan like this to the mainstream media including evidence?
Not to mention the problem of keeping all that data and analyzing it.
FEMA is not out to get anyone. It is there to help people when bad things happen. I really can believe people believe the paranoid implications of that article.
As a matter of practicality, how many people do you think it would take to build a list of all the people this article claims FEMA targets? How many 'agents' do you think it would take to maintain that list so FEMA could locate those people and 'round them up'? If you had 100,000 agents each one would have to track approximately 2500 Americans.
Don't you think that out of 100,000 people at least 1 person would leak information about a disgusting, anti-freedom, anti-American plan like this to the mainstream media including evidence?
Not to mention the problem of keeping all that data and analyzing it.
FEMA is not out to get anyone. It is there to help people when bad things happen. I really can believe people believe the paranoid implications of that article.
Id like to think of this as a skeme to protest againt Moderate views, care to object?
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If these such camps are true, who is to be housed here? Is this 1984 all over again? I think not. Abandoned Military Bases is what they are, no other.
They're for thought criminals.
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They're for thought criminals.
Instead of an unconstructive one-liner, can you expand on post?
QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Nov 6 2003, 02:10 AM)
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They're for thought criminals.
Instead of an unconstructive one-liner, can you expand on post?
People who think outside the realm of societal thinking. IE, People against capitalism. Protestors, Expecially the ones that protest the WTO).
You know, people that ask to many questions.
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People who think outside the realm of societal thinking. IE, People against capitalism. Protestors, Expecially the ones that protest the WTO).
Yet again, your wrong. Do you actually think that in the years to come that these so called "concentration camps" that you describe will house so called "thought criminals" such as protesters?
America is free. Freedom of speech, wether myself or anyone elses likes it or not, sure they will have riot police, its called protection. Anything can happen when you have huge crowds of people together.
One other thing to add in is:
I notice your signature, it is on the US Fedarl Reserve. Why have such a signature, if you dont even live in america?
QUOTE(Jimbo @ Nov 10 2003, 04:52 PM)
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People who think outside the realm of societal thinking. IE, People against capitalism. Protestors, Expecially the ones that protest the WTO).
Yet again, your wrong. Do you actually think that in the years to come that these so called "concentration camps" that you describe will house so called "thought criminals" such as protesters?
America is free. Freedom of speech, wether myself or anyone elses likes it or not, sure they will have riot police, its called protection. Anything can happen when you have huge crowds of people together.
One other thing to add in is:
I notice your signature, it is on the US Fedarl Reserve. Why have such a signature, if you dont even live in america?
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Yet again, your wrong. Do you actually think that in the years to come that these so called "concentration camps" that you describe will house so called "thought criminals" such as protesters?
Yes because they're making them. There have been whistleblowers. They're working on passing laws giving the government the right to suspend your citizenship.
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America is free. Freedom of speech, wether myself or anyone elses likes it or not, sure they will have riot police, its called protection. Anything can happen when you have huge crowds of people together.
You mean freedom to speak within' borders. I guess you haven't seen/participated at a WTO protest. They're a warzone. Aggressive police, attacking peaceful protestors.
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One other thing to add in is:
I notice your signature, it is on the US Fedarl Reserve. Why have such a signature, if you dont even live in america?
I notice your signature, it is on the US Fedarl Reserve. Why have such a signature, if you dont even live in america?
We're all subject to the same central banking system. Personal attack removed
Would you be willing to learn about the federal reserve? Don't let that "federal" confuse you, that doesn't mean federal government. 2nd Personal Attack removed.
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Yes because they're making them. There have been whistleblowers. They're working on passing laws giving the government the right to suspend your citizenship.
If some specific group actually wanted this to happen, it would not. In our Congress today, most of the population is that of Patriots. Do you think if they knew that somewhere somehow these certain people are trying to make these laws and better yet, would they let this carry on?
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You mean freedom to speak within' borders. I guess you haven't seen/participated at a WTO protest. They're a warzone. Aggressive police, attacking peaceful protestors.
"agressive police" yes, in some cases. why? To defend themselves. When such Protests occur, there is a certain percentage that does get totaly out of hand and in many cases somewhate violent.
And the other percent is "peaceful protesters" as you would call them.
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We're all subject to the same central banking system. Personal attack removed
Would you be willing to learn about the federal reserve? Don't let that "federal" confuse you, that doesn't mean federal government. 2nd Personal Attack removed
Would you be willing to learn about the federal reserve? Don't let that "federal" confuse you, that doesn't mean federal government. 2nd Personal Attack removed
You protest on how america is not free and that we will in fact lose our freedom, but actually your right we are all subject to the same banking systems, really. So when you attack America on our policies the subject of concentraion camps, be sure to also include Canada and other European Countries.
To the second part, Your not part of our union and yes i would be willing to learn more about that subject.
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If some specific group actually wanted this to happen, it would not. In our Congress today, most of the population is that of Patriots. Do you think if they knew that somewhere somehow these certain people are trying to make these laws and better yet, would they let this carry on?
I guess it comes down to FEMA, not congress. Congress has no control over this. Do you really think they're "Patriots", they were the ones that passed the USA Patriot Act. Who's their backers? You don't get elected unless you got the $$$$.
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"agressive police" yes, in some cases. why? To defend themselves. When such Protests occur, there is a certain percentage that does get totaly out of hand and in many cases somewhate violent.
And the other percent is "peaceful protesters" as you would call them.
And the other percent is "peaceful protesters" as you would call them.
Actually there are trouble makers that go out. They in now way represent the protestors, infact they violently attack the protestors. I've got video of it if you'd like to see some of this. But when you see them getting smeared on CNN or FOX news, you should know, it's very easy for a group to send out some bad apples to make everyone look bad.
But the WTO protests, the police are violent. We're talking about a public meeting of the people that run the world.
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You protest on how america is not free and that we will in fact lose our freedom, but actually your right we are all subject to the same banking systems, really. So when you attack America on our policies the subject of concentraion camps, be sure to also include Canada and other European Countries.
To the second part, Your not part of our union and yes i would be willing to learn more about that subject.
To the second part, Your not part of our union and yes i would be willing to learn more about that subject.
Yes, I've made the point many times. We're talking about FEMA which is American. But I do talk about Canadian concentration camps too, but not here. Most people don't care. It's not like you believe anything I say.
If you're willing to learn. Then please go out and learn. After you learn it, you'll probably end up closing your bank accounts.
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I guess it comes down to FEMA, not congress. Congress has no control over this. Do you really think they're "Patriots", they were the ones that passed the USA Patriot Act. Who's their backers? You don't get elected unless you got the $$$$.
FEMA comes in to the whole picture when there is some kind of huge problem or disaster and not to build and take charge of "concentraion camps". Youve got it all wrong, if FEMA ran these many "camps" all across the country, they would be only going after "thought-criminals", right?
What type of Disaster would FEMA take charge in, that would cause americans to be housed into "camps"? There is nuthing.
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Actually there are trouble makers that go out. They in now way represent the protestors, infact they violently attack the protestors. I've got video of it if you'd like to see some of this. But when you see them getting smeared on CNN or FOX news, you should know, it's very easy for a group to send out some bad apples to make everyone look bad.
But the WTO protests, the police are violent. We're talking about a public meeting of the people that run the world.
But the WTO protests, the police are violent. We're talking about a public meeting of the people that run the world.
Ha, i think thats a load on crap. I can show you various videos of these "peaceful protesters" attacked police. Is that your way of a peaceful protest?
Why would a group send "bad apples" to make them look bad, wouldnt they want peace?
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Yes, I've made the point many times. We're talking about FEMA which is American. But I do talk about Canadian concentration camps too, but not here. Most people don't care. It's not like you believe anything I say.
If you're willing to learn. Then please go out and learn. After you learn it, you'll probably end up closing your bank accounts.
If you're willing to learn. Then please go out and learn. After you learn it, you'll probably end up closing your bank accounts.
You would be suprised. Most of the anything you do say is just worthless propaganda, pointing at the united states.
I am willing to learn, i dont think you have any clue how old i am? you would be suprised wm009. Close my bank accounts, Bad Idea. Live in the real world, you may learn more.
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