What's going on? People are pouring out into the streets, traffic lights out, NY Stock exchange, a fire in NYC.

Turn on the news.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/default.asp?cp1=1

edit to add: Port Authority in NY affected too. Trains and subways effected.

MSNBC just said that it's not a terrorist attack, but that the Niagra-Mohawk Power Grid is out.

You would think that the grid would have some better back up systems.

Although the power outage is a terrible thing, it's wonderful to watch New Yorkers whether native or transplants helping each other through all this.

New York City turns into small town USA when a disaster strikes.

Since the 1975(?) power outage, they have created several fail-safe systems. Apparently they have either failed or the latest Internet worm has crashed it.

The crime may not be starting now, but when it gets darker, looters will be out in full force where the NYPD will be very busy.

I think this can also be seen as a test for Bloomberg as well to see how he can handle a crisis like this

There was a power outage in NYC in 1977 and had major riots.

It will be a miracle if they only have a few deaths. In France, 3,000 have died from the heat. The Brits have been having an awful time of it, too.
Every now and then we're reminded that we're not in total control of our destinies. Mother Nature still rules.

I'm actually noticing a slowdown here at the forum - because of this presumably.

Think of all the poor AD members who are in desperate need of a posting fix and are stuck sitting in the dark! Amlord, DaytonRocker, nighttimer, ConservPat, Juber3...(oh, dear, who am I missing? )

Edited to add: UltimateJoe!

Oh my gosh you're right!

They live up there!?

I'm sure we'll hear all about it!

Contrary to what you might have heard, Boston was not affected. Can't get rid of me that easily.

No looting so far in NYC....so UNLIKE NYC

I think New Yorkers have matured since 9/11 and that looting has become old hat in a disaster

Anyway, i have been researching, and i found that i was correct in the fact that they have several fail-safe systems to prevent a disaster like this that came from the 70's "incident".

The only conclusion i can reach is that the lastest internet Worm, "Blaster" as it is called, converged on the systems at the Niagra-Mohawk plant & disrupted the systems, taking out the fail-safes and the grid itself was fried with help from the Worm

Really? I just thought there was a system overload because of the hot weather usage, and when they shut down one plant, it overloaded the others.

I think Fail-Safe is not the correct terminology. A power plant dropping off line is as safe as you get. Every electric utility has a PR&C (Protective Relaying and Control) group, with lots of engineers and technicians. The systems they design, install, and maintain are designed to trip very close to the actual fault so the rest of the grid isn't affected. Surges, dips, or any disturbances that occur should be isolated as quickly as possible to protect the grid and to minimize the number of customers losing power. If the local protection systems fail, the next step up should operate and stop a chain reaction of failures from occuring. Some of the functions are automated, but we still have real people in control rooms monitoring and remotely operating controls that can isolate problems independently of the automated functions. Here in the west, they sometimes shut down major transmission lines because of potential problems from forest fires in the area.
Since the Eastern grid covers half of America, the major part of the protection system did work. Otherwise, power could have been lost over a much larger area.

However in two previous major power outages in the New York area, there was no Internet for a worm to affect...

On the local television, they were showing the control room, and pointing out that the power variations were enough to "trip us off the grid" somewhere near Grand Rapids. The latest report was that 21 power plants failed within less than three minutes.

What they were describing was sensors, and relays. They would be absolutely impervious to an Internet virus. This is comparable to using a remote control to turn on your television. A sensor in the television picks up a signal from the remote and energizes, or deenergizes a relay. The actual relay in your television these days is most likely electronic; but at the power station, it will be more like a giant light switch. A relay, like a light switch either allows power to flow or interrupts it.

The power systems are designed so that a power overload will draw on other suppliers on the grid, but when it is being used to near maximum capacity, one small overload can really add up.

When I was an apprentice electrician, I miswired a control circuit in a classroom situation. The control circuit was protected by a 5 amp 120 volt fuse on a power limited control transformer. The transformer was tapped off 10 amp fuses on a 460 volt motor starter circuit. That was supplied by a 100 amp 460 volt breaker, supplied by a transformer which stepped down from a 2300 volt transformer, supplied by a 13,600 volt power generator. When the instructor examined my wiring and pushed the start button, there was a direct short to ground. The 5 amp fuse held, etc. We dumped the main generator off the grid, and took out power to 18 buildings.

So, where were you at 4:15 this afternoon, NY time?

Alone. With a lady friend...

if you were with a lady friend how were you alone

When that "lady friend" happens to be your wife of 15 years, it may seem like you're alone at times!

Ah Well. So much for an attempt at being a man of mystery....

It's too early for news in Mayberry, so I'm assuming that the power grid is either back up or everyone got tired of reporting it, or the news feed batteries conked out.

Guess this is a good reminder how important electricity is to our ways of living. People who bought and kept Y2K generators are probably feeling a little justified. But still, no heat/cooling, no phones, no subways, elevators, etc. & so on.

I wonder what that looks like from the space shuttle? You know, the whole northeast to northeast central continent going black? And I wonder if folks who normally don't see it are impressed by the starry sky?

Back when electricity was first being introduced, I think it was Edison who envisioned DC being generated locally, not the huge AC power grids we operate now. The rolling brownouts in CA not so long ago caused businesses to look into locally generated electricity due to grids not being reliable enough.

Maybe this marks the end of one era and the beginning of another?

Hope everyone keeps their cool through this--wouldn't want riots or looting. But I can also see some very positive things coming out of the crisis.

Heh, I bet a million system administrators and managers are running around all over the place trying to find fuel oil for the moto generators! Or not--I suppose networks are down too, so just shut down the 'puters of commerce and get some winks.

Which means billions are being lost. Yep, something big and hopefully positive will come of this.

maybe we'll look to tesla for solutions? that man was a genius when it cam to electricity.

1 death & 4 Looters...that's it

I was expecting A LOT more then that (IE city wide looting) I'm surprised. (btw I would have been looting if I were there )

Solutions? I got solutions!
I did not invent them, this is not Al Gore speaking.
The communications group that I used to work for at a major electric utility tries to have every essential item working off -48VDC, from batteries, with battery chargers permanently attached and charging. So, when AC power is lost to any of our sites, and we cover most of Arizona, there shouldn't even be a blip in the data communications. These various networks provide communications for telephones, computers, and sub-station/transmission lines monitoring and control functions. A propane fueled generator starts up in case the outage lasts long enough to drain the batteries, and to take care of the AC loads like air conditioning and lights. It is a very high dollar way of assuring continuous power to your site, and you could conceivably do the same for your house, if you have a few hundred thousand to pay for the equipment.
As for me, the occasional inconvenience of losing power is not worth the investment needed to have a blip-free life. Guess I will just have to suffer a few hours a year.

Just think of all the babies we will have to look forward to in 9 months.

As soon as the lights go out, Beladonna's mind starts to wander.
I love that kind of woman!

It's so funny you say that - that's EXACTLY what I told Mike last night when this was going on I like the way you think