Why is it we out here EXPECT to be lesser off than Americans?

These are my HONEST comparitives and my hope is youn declare yours.

My wage is on average AS$38.000.
My wife is a nurse and earns AS$22,000 part time.
Combined we are above average for OZ of which the average is AS$48,000.
Upper Middle Class??.

Our average food bill is AS$350.00. PW and we are careful.
My second hand 2000 Mitsubishi Magna Verada Wagon cost me AS$18,000 after trade in and is being payed off.
My house is on a block 980MtrsSq with an added small pool/sauna and granny flat for my parents added to a 15yr loan because I am an old bugger.
Our out goings leave us about AS$110.00 a week spare which gives us a dinner out @ AS$50.00 and a few bucks to spare.

The question is this...........

As a middle income Aussie am I better off than middle income Americans??.
Or Am I worse?.

Onya........Alan

With the exchange rate, and your yearly wage combined would be very bad here indeed! Of course, as I recall, you have socialized medicine and post-secondary education, so that would be something in your favor. There is alot of extra costs for an American vs European or OZ that many countries don't pay- such as a water bill and school bonds and such. If you feel comfortable at that rate, that is a good indication that the Aussies are doing things right. I make OVER 48 thou US and it would be barely enough for you level of living, and my wife making another 40 thou plus the 20 thou we earn on investments make us "comfortable". Alot of our money goes back into real estate investment so I can retire early and homeschool/Russian school our kids. If not for the retirement thing, we could live alot more "comfortably" than we do now, but you know, priorities and all LOL

Alan,

We've got record unemployment. Your household income is the envy of many in the States.

Take for example a high tech senior worker making $80,000 USD per year. After taxes, this represents approximately $1,015 take-home pay/week. Yank the stealth taxes (sales, property, usage fees, licensing) and it probably comes to $900 or so a week.

Then this high tech senior worker gets canned due to the bad economy (not of his or her making), and suddenly its onto state unemployment comp. This varies from state to state, but let's take Colorado's maximum for an example: $395/wk.

That's a $505 reduction, or 56%! Plus you have to pay state and federal taxes on this income, so it is really only about $334/wk--a whopping 63% loss of income.

To add insult to injury, the State of Colorado decided that half the first round of unemployment comp was needed for corporate tax relief--you know, to create jobs.

Um, okayyyyy, need some jobs now! Heh, yah, that's a good joke.

So this example unemployed high tech worker heads off to find any job. No go. Then he or she gets ticked off and starts to raise a stink, which many are and many more will join. The pot is starting to bubble. I rather think we will be seeing a march on Washington coming down the pike--if Washington isn't made off limits to citizens.

Guess we could all gather in Maryland for the sanctioned protest? Maybe in some gravel pit out in the country? Roast bulk weenies and drink cheap keg beer, just like in high . . . um, I mean college. Yeah, college, that's what it was

I'd say you're a little better off. The latest median household income figures I've seen for the US are about $45K, which would be about $69K Australian at current exchange rates. Your cost of living is about 10% lower according to most of the sites I just surveyed, so we should probably adjust the US figure to about $62K Australian. You're right in the ballpark, then, and you don't mention having kids so you're probably a bit ahead. I'll assume that the cost of medical care is already factored in, but I'll bet the cost of post-secondary education is not so if you did have kids you'd be significantly ahead.

Then there are quality-of-life considerations. Your streets are safer. If you live anywhere near a city you have better and cheaper public transportation than is the norm in US cities. And you get to live in Australia. There's nothing wrong with living in the US, there are many fine places here both to live and to visit, but on average I'd say the Joe Bloggs in Australia has just a little bit better access to his country's natural wonders than John Smith in the US. That has to be worth something in the calculation.

Overall, then, I'd say you're definitely better off than your American counterpart. Of course, I'm probably not your typical US respondent. There are only two reasons I haven't already started the process of moving to Australia. One is that my current job situation involves both commitments I've made to friends and a likelihood of earlier retirement than I'd be able to manage otherwise, and I'm not quite ready to walk out on either. The other is spousal resistance. If my wife divorced me and my company flopped, I'd probably be moving to somewhere east of Melbourne darn quick. Americans who've never lived anywhere else just don't know what they might be missing.

No, we don't have "record unemployment".

Also, just this month, Australia's unemployment has fallen below that of the US for the first time in 20 years.
Australia's unemployment rate falls


The job "rebound" in Australia has been largely low-paying or part-time jobs:


Alan should actually be happy that he is in a two income household.


We all know that being unemployed sucks. Not finding a job sucks. But that does not mean that the country is going to hell in a handbasket. I think your personal situation is skewing your vision of how the country is actually doing.

I make at the lowest $60,000 a year, in a year with a good amount of OT i make $70,000 to $75,000 and here in N.Y. that doesn't do a damned thing for you, the houses in a neighborhood you want to live in cost $350,000 to $600,000(forget what you see in print about what houses cost in NY, the cheap ones are like 150 miles or more away from a job that can pay for them), then there is prop taxes in NY that goes anywhere from $1400 a year to $10,000 and better a year, then you have car insurance that costs me for example $2400(yearly) for 2 cars, then there is the water bill, gas, electric, phone, internet, sat TV, gas for the cars, food , then the lack of good jobs or the jobs being cut back im lucky im eating.

If we don't take into the equation the exchange rates but work on the dollar for dollar buying principle it does appear that, on average, Americans are slightly better off than us .
Certainly NOT the rich spoilt Americans we think you are.

I feel sure there are many out here would love to put this nutmeg to bed.
A few offers for comparisons.

In WA (Western Australia) you can still buy a family home in the southern Perth suberbs (25kms), on 1/4Acre block for around $120,000.
It would mean a daily trip of 20mins on the Freeway if you work in Perth or a train ride of 40mins costing $3.80 return.

In comparison the eastern states prices for average properties the equivilent distance from the major cities are on average x2 - 3.
However the wages are a little higher but not x2 or 3.
My Daughter lives on the Gold Coast at Surfers Paradise a 10min car ride to the beach.
Her house sits on just under 1/3Acre, 3 small bedrooms, dining and kitchen etc.
Cost..$385,000.

In WA we pay for excess water usage and 1/2 yearly water rates.
In WA we pay local Council Rates that includes weekly rubbish collections.

We pay an amount ($56.00Wk) into Hospital Benefit Funds to cover medical costs.
IE....I spent 3wks in hospital while they tried to repair the damage I did to my hand. That includes 12mnths of therapy and special gloves......Extra cost to me...$0.00.
Cost of prescription pills etc........no more than $8:00.

I think your imported goods are cheaper than ours, cars etc.

How is this for a sorta comparison start?
Ta lots for responding.
Best to you Alan

I usually make about $1000/mo. which is really nothing... but I can live off of it even with a $500/mo. rent plus $130 for my cell phone, about $80 for electricity, etc. Where do I cut back the most so that I don't starve? I have been eating rice and noodles lately with butter. Sometimes I throw in some mixed vedgies. Beanut Butter and Jelly as well as ramen is good. I always take care of my expenses and credit cards and stuff before I worry about food. I am trying to do what I can to pay off my credit cards to get out of the hole. I do not own a car so that helps eliminate not only those expenses but me driving around and deciding I want to buy something on credit... cuz... ya know... "I'll pay it off later, when I have a good month."

It's not about how much you make, it's about how you live. I am reading "The Millionaire Next Door" right now and learning to be very frugal. Many Americans live a high consumption lifestyle where they spend more than they earn... that is why we are considered spoiled Americans.

*huggs*

Olympia Manet.

Oz is going down the same path.
But lets be honest about this.

A mortgage is credit.
Buying a car is done on credit.
Its the credit after this that becomes the killer and the US is not alone but apparently more lenient in lending than us?
An expression we use here is 'keeping up with the jones next door'.
Perhaps the same thing?.


Regards....Alan

A friend of mine from university moved to San Diego CA seven or so years ago with his job, which was a promotion in terms of responsibility anyway, but paid him 3-4 times what he could have got paid in the UK to do the same thing.

His wife was a trained paediatric nurse here, working in the NHS, and again, it was a job in demand in the States, so a green card wasn't hard to get, and the salary on offer was 3-4 times what the closest comparison would have been in the UK.

So, I assumed that their standard of living would be significantly higher than anything they could experience here. They come back about once a year to visit friends and family, and there are some living costs in the UK that make them gasp - notably, fuel (gasoline) prices, clothes, and basic food staples (the UK grocery market is about the most profitable in the world, on a margin basis). However, although their California state and US federal taxes are very much lower than they would be in the UK (especially including our 17.5% VAT on most purchases, punitive company car taxes, etc.), my friend estimates that his standard of living is not significantly different from what it would be had he accepted a promotion in the UK.

For one thing, his energy bills are much higher, since he has not only to heat his home in winter, but cool it in summer. (After this year, many Britons are considering some kind of air-con for next year - I certainly am!). The biggest difference though is that the kind of things that his taxes pay for here (health, education, etc.) are only available at the same standards as here, or higher, if he pays through the nose for them. He's so worried on the education front that they are looking to move back to the UK before his two young children get much past kindergarten age; public education is of a comparatively poor standard in his area anyway (so he says), and even the best primary (grade school?) education in the USA would be considered average-to-fair in the UK. Plus, private education is noticably more expensive in the USA than it is here.

Of course, all of this is anecdote, and could be a smokescreen for homesickness anyway. But, outside the super-rich, which seem to be more numerous in the USA, it seems to me that living standards per unit of comparable income (i.e. discounting anything that is provided by the state in one place and has to be bought in another) are, if anything, a little lower in the USA than in Western Europe.

Particularly as the emphasis on increased productivity in the USA seems to be predicated on ever-increasing working hours, while (for example) the French, even in their current economic slump, are restricting their working hours yet have comparable rates of productivity increase to the US.

Given the choice, do I want to work smarter, or work harder? Put it this way, I'm not on the waiting list for a green card myself.

Actually, all overseas workers seem to make more than in their respective countries. A lot of British pilots come to the US and receive much better compensation than the average US pilot with equivalent experience. It's the same for Italians (the highest paid here- they earned 3 times my husband's pay during pilot training) and Germans (2.5 x).

I've had other friends (in civilian fields) who drastically increased their salaries when they moved overseas (Germany) for employment. I don't quite understand how this works.

I would say your salary is average or slightly above, Alan (especially using Platypus' cost of living adjustments). It depends on the area you live in the US. Rural areas are much cheaper, but the pay is lower....I'm sure it's the same where you live. We live very well now....about six figures. Three years ago our family salary was half what it is now (approx 4300 a month), and I'd say we lived well then, too. Actually, when I was working too, we made about 4500 together and I thought we had lots of money to burn (but no children)...and the area was cheaper.

One of my favorite examples of standard of living comparisons is a very good friend of mine, he is finnish, that is an anesthesiologist (MD) in Finland, we met in high school when he was my "exchange student/brother". He makes the US equivilent in Finland of 40K a year. He accepted a 3 year job at UofW making 250K a year. He tells me his standard of living actually went down in the US (with the exception of the cars- our prices and selection are far better he tells me)- They are taxed heavily in Finland, but there is no bills to speak of, no medical insurance, no tuition for school, and even the housing is subsidized to some degree. It is of course much safer in Finland with no huge police force needed just to police the city like in WA- so overall he also feels more free. There are some basic cultural differences too that make life cheaper there- alot of families live 2 or three generations in a large comparmentalized home- I saw this in Germany alot too, so the housing is overal cheaper as well.