In the Domestic Policy area, there is a thread "another lost war?" on the war on drugs.

A side argument arose about us enforcing our drug laws in other countries (columbia, mexico etc) that ship large quantities of the illegal drugs to the US.

There are two questions that come up in my eyes:

1) If a person in another country continues to break our laws by sending in illegal goods (note: this is not the same as a criminal running to a non extraditing country after breaking a law here), does that person become OUR criminal as well, and we can enforce on him?

2) Should we hold countries responsible for allowing criminal organizations to exist in their borders, especially when it is clear that these organizations specialize in breaking US law. (is this not in some ways like harboring terrorists?)

please do not make this a "drugs should be legalized" debate, we already have those, this is about enforcing on international criminals.

Quane

No. Not unless you want the Saudis to come and cut the hands off anyone who steals from a Saudi.

Of course, if there was an international justice system, with it's own court... I wonder why nobody has thought of this.

It does not matter whether a criminal flees to a country or commits a crime (under US law) while in a foreign country, the process is the same:

The criminal must somehow be caught. This must be done by the resident country, OR with the cooperation of the resident country. Once in custody, they may be extradited to the US to face crimes.

There is no need to by physically present in the US to break US laws. HOWEVER, they are not subject to our jurisdiction unless the resident country apprehends them and extradites them.

We are currently having some problems with criminals (terrorists, I believe) in Germany who the Germans refuse to extradite because the US has the death penalty.


Not all laws are international. Some things are illegal here which are legal in other countries. An "international court" would have great difficulty sifting through each country's laws and coming up with the right decision, I think.

That being said, should we put pressure on the countries that are hosting these criminals to apprehend them? this probably should only happen if the criminals continue to cause us damage through their crime (eg continue shipping heroin in, continue hacking into our networks.. etc).
At what point do we have any right to step in and defend ourselves actively, if the country refuses to enforce on the criminals? OR is incapable of doing so? ( in many drug cartels cases).



sure, but what if they keep going back?
if they continue to offend, we would apprehend them here and give them trial.
BUT, why cant the saudi's pursue the criminal if they continue their crime and are not being enforced on.
one time criminals are one thing. international criminals who continue their offenses are another animal.


Quane

Not unless they cross the border into our country. Our laws are not applicable internationally because we don't write the laws for the world. We should have no more place to go into their country or prosecute a foreign national outside our borders than an Iranian council should an American proven to be shipping prohibited pornography overseas.

If such a foreign criminal is violating his own country's laws, let them catch him. After such a time any extradition should be negotiated through diplomatic channels rather than simply expected. They are not, to my knowledge, under any obligation to turn a criminal over to us simply because they broke our laws while in their country.


I don't know whether we should or not, but I feel that we can. That is not to say we have any right to cross their borders in pursuit of a person breaking our laws or to wage a war against a country for failing to cooperate with American legislation. Rather we could try persuading foreign nations to cooperate through negotiations and our own refusal to cooperate equivalent with theirs. That is not to say stop all foreign aid or business to capture one person, but rather refuse to prosecute any Americans for continuing to undermine their laws as well.

American laws are for Americans in America. We can't run all over the world enforcing our laws on foreign nations and their citizens. Such would be the action of an imperialist nation. We should simply seek to work with other nations so that the pursuit of international criminals benefits both parties without having to undermine the laws of one nation with those of another.

Edited to add: It seems obvious to me that in order for a foreign national to violate our laws without entering our country there must be an accomplice on our side of the border violating them within our jurisdiction. Rather than deal with the hassle of international conflicts of interest, it would presumably be much easier to keep our focus on those criminal contacts actually working within our jurisdiction. Foreign nationals will be impotent to break our laws in ways harmful to our society without such contacts.