Goamerica, this is another case where you have to back up what you're saying with proof. No one has any reason to believe what you're saying if the only thing we have be back it up is your word. Furthermore, that doesn't make sense. If Arafat held rigged elections, they why did a guy he didn't want to be elected (Mammoud Abbas) end up Prime Minister?

The biggest obstacle to the peace process is the Isreali goverment itself, it is an aparthied goverment that supports ethnic cleansing- thier policies are as racist and exclusionary as anything South Africa ever had- so why don't we start assasinating all the freely elected conservative members of the Isreali right and Sharon first? I think it would have a much quicker peace dividend than anything like assasinating Arafat, because I think the Palastenians will elect a far more radical person than Arafat if he is killed. Personally, I think Arafat might even prefer to be taken out at this stage, he is ill with parkinsons, and this will be a great way to go out with honor and lionized by his poeple instead of suffering the fate of this debilitating illness, and forever be a hero to his poeple.

All recent successes with inter-ethnic rivalries we have in the world today (South Africa, Ireland, the former Yugoslavia) we have forced the warring parties into power sharing and land sharing arrangements, but instead we support an aparthied in Isreal, shear madness

Because he knew he'd have control over him anyway. Arafat can't stand being side-lined and he can't stand seeing peace either.



WHOA! Hold the phone! Do you have ANY proof that they are supporters of ethnic cleansing? Seems the only ethnic cleansing in the area is supported by Arafat and Hamas

I'll have to agree with goamerica on this. HAMAS, through Arafat has much control over the hearts and minds of the hardcore in "Palestine." They and others are directly responsible for suicide bombings and the ritual of "martyrdom" (king of jordan tried to outlaw in his country without success).

These groups hold the fanatical belief (not unlike alqaeda) that "infidels" on Arab soil is blasphemous. meaning ALL non-muslim entity must be erradicated. This intolerance by radical Muslims is precisely WHY every nation in the ME has populations 80% Muslim. 90% Arab. Others are barely tolerated.

Israel, as "infidel" HAS to be pushed off this land for this reason.

The idea that Israel wants to ethnically cleanse this area would only come from their desire NOT to be killed by these people and NOT some ideological or religious belief.

Ive already posted a few citiations of Ariel Sharons blatant disregard for Palestinian life, and in another thread there was an article of a study (the first of its kind) that proves the IDF uses excessive force towards its Arab population. The systematically kill {Palestinians, with little regard for the fact that they are CHILDREN or the elderly. Not to mention that ALL Arabs in Israel and the Occupied Territories do not have the same rights as anyone else living there, they are subjeted to curfew, if an Arab married a Jew, he is not allowed to live with his spouse in Israel, they are not allowed to freely practice their religion. And you guys dont think this is aparthied?

since the creation of Israel as a state these Arabs have sought to kill Israelis. Through random suicide bombing and wars.

The terror element, live in and among the Arab civilians. They are protected by the citizens in "palestine". Where else can the Israeli military target these murderers? man of these homes have underground tunnels for the escape of these terrorists. Which is one of the reasons why the homes of suspected terrorists are bulldozed. These hostiles put their own people at risk.

In recent months, Sharon has been targeting known members of HAMAS and other terror groups operating "palestine." This ALSO has garnered criticism. Yet, SBombers blow up buses filled with babies and Israeli grandmothers among others.

When these random acts of terror stop and HAMAS recognizes that Israel is NOT going anywhere then maybe peace can be made. I doubt this recognition will ever happen.

There are threads to discuss the Israeli-Palestinian troubles more generally. This thread is specifically about whether Arafat should be exiled or assassinated, or not.

he should go. period.

One-liners are VERY hard to debate. Please be more constructive than that.

Edited to add: if you wish to discuss the moderation of the forum with me, PM me or start a thread in Comments and Suggestions forum.

I feel they should both go especially Sharon. How does he expect Arafat to crack down on militants if he confines him to his house. IMHO this round of violence started with the isrealis accusing Hamas of rearming and sent the (American Made) apaches in to target Hamas officials. They could have given the intel to the Palestinian authorities and let them handle it, possibly preventing the bus and cafe bombing that shortly followed. Too add here are a few quotes to add to Kims collection on this post.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them."
Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Sharon was a killer obsessed with hatred of Palestinians. I had promised Arafat that his people would not get any harm. Sharon, however, ignored this commitment entirely. Sharon's word is worth nil."
Ambassador Philip Habib President Ronald Reagan's Special Middle East Envoy in 1982

"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger."
Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956.

*sigh*

Arafat should go, period.

reasons:

1. In 30 years of his and his terrorist govt not one bit of progress has been made towards peace.

2. He will NOT crack down on terrorist murders directed at innocent Israelis. The same players are still in place.


3. He would not allow Mahmoud Abbas take control of the security forces within "Palestine." He continually thwarted Abbas's ability to crack down on Arafat backed terror groups. The man resigned out of this frustration.

4. through these actions it is clear he does not want peace.

Summary, as the MAIN obstructionist to peace in the PAST 30 YEARS, it is time for those who are serious ABOUT peace in this hellhole to see that he does not continue on for another 30.

better?

What about Ariel Sharon and his terrrorist organization? 50+ UN resolutions ignored, far more than Iraqs 16, including UN resolution 242 which states that isreal should retreat to the borders prior to the wars.

First of all, EVERY isreali must serve in the military so how are the innocent? Second, if the Isreali government, or any government for that matter, came to your land and searched and abused your people, shut down your schools and economic centers, bulldozed your homes would you sit there take it. If you do read up on why we, the USA, have the right to bear arms.


Why should he. The people elected him as their leader. If they did not agree with him they would have voted him out.

Well neither does does the Isreali government. Here are some more quotes from Ariel Sharon.
"I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do."
Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956.

Ariel Sharon has not been in control for 30 years, Arafat has.

UN resolutions? LOL, just goes to show the uselessness ALL the way around, of the UN doesn't it?

yes , every israeli must serve in the military, and thank GOD they do, but Arafat's terrorist bombers have NOT targeted the military have they? No, they go for the civilian buses and by luck might blow apart 1 or 2 soldiers. they murder people in cafes, market places and Bar mitsfahs. In other words...innocent israelis. babies, children, old women, mothers and men. makes no difference.

Because for 30 years and countless hours and generations of brainwashing, they don't know any better. If they DID, they would recognize that Arafat has given them NO hope. Then again maybe none of them want peace anyway. who knows.


an interview in 1956? enuff said.

Except you miss one little detail. It was mostly the US who vetoed them!



Link: http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0393/9303040.htm

And let's not forget it was the Israelis who fired FIRST causing the breaking of the cease fire.



Link:[URL=http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/2003/08/23/news/world/6590986.htm]http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/2003/08/23/news/world/6590986.htm

A 2 month cease fire gone because Israel attacked them!

Funny how most seem to miss that part.

It's interesting that people who want Sharon to atone for his alleged war crimes and atrocities and hold him accountable for interview soundbites from as far back as 1956, fail to address that Arafat has been an leader of one of the world's foremost terror organizations since he set up the Union of Palestinian Students in 1952.
With the acts committed by the PLO, Fatah and Black September, only in bizarro world would he have been awarded the nobel peace prize. Many may see him as a crippled has been, not fully in charge of what goes on in the region, but I fear they are being duped. He is, and has always been a menace to peace.
Unfortunately, removing or killing him would only inspire fellow sick minded goons to commit suicidal violence.

I don't have a listing of all the resolutions against Israel the US vetoed however I applaud the decision. At least one country is concerned with this underdog's (Israel) welfare. Let's not forget that Israel's neighbors...all Arab, all Muslim had done their damnest to obliterate them in past wars.

To date, past aggressors Jordan and Egypt have signed peace treatees with Israel. meaning THEY recognize Israel's right to their State. what's holding up the Arabs in "Palestine?" They DO not want Jews on Arab land.

Abbas having no ability to crackdown on militant suicide bombers broke the ceasefire. no, I didn't miss it at all.

Dontreadonme, agreed.

Any links to this information you've provided?

AIM Link
Onwar Link
Link
Link
Link

Must I go on? I could spend all day providing links.

Exactly. They want their land back. The land gauranteed to them by UN Security resolution 242. They don't want a land filled with settlements (read trailer parks) that they don't have any control of. The Israelis keep provking the Arabs by targeting hamas leaders during cease fires and then when they retaliate they jump on the "terrorism" bandwagon and start blindly firing missiles into residential neighborhoods and busy intersections. Furthermore who is the only one right now purposing a cease fire. I'll help you out. It ain't Bush or Sharon. Like I said IMHO both Sharon and Arafat should go. Or here are my two solutions
1.) Sperate them with UN forces with a clear distinctive line no settlements and no weapons. Any attempts to invade Isreali or Palestine should handled heavy handily. This conflict reminds me of two kids fighting for a toy, with the I hit you last mentality and all. I call this Operation Peace at the end of the Barrel.
2.) Give the Pal. Government Nuclear capable cruise missiles. Its called MAD Mutually Assured Destruction.

[quote=Rev_DelFuego,Sep 19 2003, 03:13 PM] [QUOTE]2.) Give the Pal. Government Nuclear capable cruise missiles. Its called MAD Mutually Assured Destruction. [/quote]
lol, I'm sorry for laughing...

Putting nukes in the hands of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hizbollah is the equivalent of putting them in the hands of Al Qaeda.

Do you NOT know that this govt is run by Terrorists that even the EU has admitted they are?

Nukes for "Palestine?" I don't think so

There is no Palestine Rev. It doesn't exist. And the attempts for it to exist have been constantly resisted and interrupted by Arafat and his thugs, that's why we need to eliminate him from the equation.

CP

I know there isn't a Pal. but there should be. These two groups of people cannot contain themselves. They have been at it for 50+ years and no one has solved the problem, and for the 3rd time I think Arafat should go too since the isrealis refuse to agree with with him. I just hate when everyone walk around spewing that the Israelis are "Gods chosen People" and act they don't know why the Pal. people hate them. On top of it all look what this has done to the US. 2000 actual innocent people killed because we couldn't solve this problem in 50 years.

I would just like to add with all the links and saying posted by the support either side here, both people seem rather oblivious to such or bias. I cant help but to say no matter what way you go, you basically agree with having innocents killed in some desperate war that has been going on for a long time.

Sure, just kill whatever people you feel is necessary towards the peace you think is correct.

Israel has always been a shining mark of innocence struck down by the great evil that is Palestine, no hamas, no wait Arafat, well who knows, lets just decide to kill some people and see what happens.

I just cant help but to notice the amazing support for Israel that seems to disregard everything else that is said.

I mean you post a comment from a person called Sharon that states he plans to burn Palestinian children, now that sounds like a madman, and it does not even dent anything. I don’t think Arafat has ever made such a statement. Then again this debate no matter where is always sharp with a black and white contrast, and you cant seem to get away from it either, does anyone honestly think that one of these sides is the underdog or the victim, or the innocent, or can we recognize that both sides are guilty of destroying peace attempts and blowing each other up with disregard.

As much as I think both sides are in some part guilty I have to say since Israel is in the position of power they should back off. All of the seiges and destruction of Pal. land and homes seems unjust. (And too add the seiges are in violation of the US Arms Trade agreement since military hardware can only be used for defensive purposes and a seige and occupation are offensive tactics.) As you can see I'm from Texas and admit sometimes can be a little confrontational, but if a government bulldozes my house, close down my town preventing me from going to the store, go to school, conduct business, or just basically live I would do ANYTHING to protect mine and your rights. If you think I'm wrong read up one the reason for the right to bear arms. And BTW Thank you for reading with an open mind. I was beginning to feel like no one was even reading it.

the point of fact nileriver, is that after all these years all these deaths all the fruitless attempts at peace and all the obstructions to that end, there comes a slight desensitising. a sort of "ALL these people suck, they should go just shut the hell up" well we know they'll be no shutting up OR the end to death and going back to before Christ with a tit for tat link war solves nothing.

Going forward, well that's an entirely different situation. yet, when there is such a road fundamental block maybe it's the black and white of a situation that clears the blockage.

I know these black and white facts:

1. Sharon will NOT consider peace, will not consider moving settlements, will not leave these so-called occupied territories UNTIL SOMEONE can harness the bombers. The man sees NO attempt to do so. He wants his people alive, not dead.

2. arafat is a terrorist, Arafat is a customer of arms with Iran. Iran is on the international list of a terror states. hamas, hizbollah and Islamic Jihad are among the groups who operate in "palestine". These groups are on the international Terrorist List. Arafat is supported by Iran and we know Iraq is an Islamic State. Well armed and violently anti-infidel.

This is the black and white. what is there to work with? with these facts, where does one POSSIBLY go next if not to get rid of Arafat or at least hope for an early natural death. like within the next few months...

we need to stop fooling around with this man. he's a liar and just plain useless.

And I know anything. The Pal. people will not consider peace until the settlement and the oppresive occupation ends. The occupation only breeds more fear, hate, and ultimately rebellion. You cannot talk of peace when you send bulldozers in to destroy homes.