English is the language of power in this country. Should all government transactions (from voting, to paying taxes, to driving tests) be performed in English only?

While it is annoying to have to speak slow and point alot in my local grocery store changing the constitiution to say english only i feel is just not that important. Living where i live about 60 miles from the mexican border there are alot of problems that arise because of the language barrier. in fact there the majority of city council members speak only spanish in my city. but as a whole these members of the language minority must learn to speak english in order to get the most out of america... they can live in their barrios if they want, making 16000 a year for a family of 5, but if they want financial, educational, and social success they must learn english...the same is true for citizens of china, and france.

Why make a consitutional amendment and *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** the ACLU and Amnasty International off when we can force them to learn english to insure their success.

Executive Order 13166 "Improving Access to Services For Persons With Limited English Proficiency." was signed into law by Bill Clinton August 11, 2000.

The EO mandates that ALL agencies receiving federal money shall "ensure that the programs and activities they normally provide in English are accessible to LEP* persons and thus do not discriminate on the basis of national origin in violation of title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964"

SO- ANY federal agency or agency receiving federal money will be required to provide services in languages other than english if someone asks for it.

This is troubling. The cost to the taxpayer will be astronomical.

Office of Budget Management Benefit Cost Analysis of Executive Order 13166, number 2002-14, dated March 14, 2002 states:



Translated from government-speak that means this multilingual mandate will cost us taxpayers somewhere between $1 and $2 BILLION extra dollars per year!

One can never fully understand our Constitution if they can not speak and understand English. Why should I have to pay for someone who refuses to learn the language of the very laws that govern them?






*Limited English Proficiency

OK drmarcs, we finally disagree on something.

I feel strongly that English should be our national language.

All of our street signs are in English. Putting a driver on the road that cannot speak at least conversational English risks the safety of everyone else on the road.

I used to live in Illinois. I'm not sure if it was a national story or not, but we had, and Illinois still has, what is probably the most corrupt governor in the nation.

The majority of his corruption was committed while he was Secretary of State, head of the department charged with issuing drivers licenses. His office accepted "campaign donations" in exchange for Illinois Drivers Licenses.

There have been two specific driving-related instances that I can remember where English as a national language could have saved lives or avoided a serious situation.

The first involves man who paid cash for his Commercial Drivers License. This man was driving his semi down the highway one day. Other semi drivers had noticed that one of his mud flaps was dangerously loose. The drivers attempted to inform this man of the situation, but the man did not speak English. If this man did speak English, the mud flap would not have broken off and flown into the windshield of the van riding behind it. This van had a family of eight people. Kids. And their parents. They all died because this man did not speak English.

The second story involves another semi driver. He was hauling toxic chemicals, though I don't remember what specifically. He was involved in an accident. This man did nothing. He could not contact the authorities because he did not speak English. He didn't even know what he was hauling. Our policemen, firemen, and HazMat teams had to work around unknown toxic chemicals because the driver didn't speak English.

So what do you think of that?

Mike

While there are few things worse then increacing our nations bueacracy, or the national budget, i do still feel that this is a nessesary evil. If we don't do it federally then it will be done locally. Here in cali they accept Mexico ID cards as valid drivers licence... so at least there are private printing companies making money off an government contract.

With the ACLU and Civil Rights organizations around printing the documents in different languages is going to happen wheather we like it or not, we might as well put the money in the market.

What a defetist attitude, drmarcs! Good thing we don't take that attitude on all issues or cigarettes would be banned by now and the very idea of school vouchers would NEVER had been conceived. We need to recognize when a system isn't working and multilingualism isn't working.

Multilingualism puts innocent lives in danger, as mike explained in his previous post regarding driving. Thus, it is a system that needs to be abolished.

Working on the presumption that our government loves beauracracy, I'd support the same money originally intended to be used for this horrible multilingual program to be used to teach functional english. Limited english proficiency is NOT a disability, people who are considered "LEP" need not be treated as such.

Do we want to give them the fish or teach them to fish?

Thank you for putting me in my place...

i guess maybe i forgot what the multiculteralist are doing to our country. Maybe that part of my california education hasn't been totally removed.

Sorry, i do agree with you

If anything at all has proven to me that the need for English as our national language is an absolute must, it is the past 2 years that I have been a Southern Californian.

Background: I was born and raised in Utah, ehhh...not the most multi-cultural place in existance.

Anyway. Living here, it's a totally different story. Many times I been the witness of lives in danger because of the lack of communication due to language differences. Drivers on the road not able to read stop signs, and thus, not stopping. Drivers actually flipping thru an English/Spanish dictionary WHILE DRIVING trying to decipher exit signs and street signs or whatnot. It's a scary thing.

This is America. We are a free country, we let anyone live here with hardly even a question of why you want to come here or what you're planning on doing, I think we definetly are in the position to demand that you pass even a grade-level English language competency test.

I'm all for embracing your culture. I'm in total agreement with you that you should protect your heirtage and pass it on to your grandkids. And while hardly the least important issue, especially compared to innocent lives in danger, understand me when I say "I want a Big Mac and fries"! (Wait, I don't eat Big Mac's )

Not sure it the founding fathers wanted a test to be required for admittance into the country, but certainly I agree that for certain privileges there should be a level of English comprehension needed, especially driving. NOBODY should be able to drive if they have vision, hearing, mental or language handicaps.

I know, I know that’s mean to the cripples…but its my safety.

Hello! This is America. Why the question of if English should be our number One language is totally mind boggling. I am 100% Italian. Yes I was born here but my grandparents weren't. They came here knowing they would have opportunities they would never have gotten. They learned the language. Just like many other ethnic groups have. Why now is the question even being asked should we have another language? No. Plain and simple.

NO it shouldn't be, and although it is annoying to not be able to communicate with everyone in my surroundings it doesn't matter we are a country populated by diversity and I believe in standing by that.

What makes you think we can't be diverse AND all speak English when it comes to governmental affairs?

Making English doesn't just make it used in governmental affairs it also says something about our country that we don't need said. I've said it in other replies and I'll say it again We are a diverse nation and we should stay that way.

Limpubus-
I'm going to keep pushing this until I can get a concrete example from you.

I understand that you want us to remain a diverse nation but I still fail to see how America will lose it's diversity if we all speak English in governmental afffairs. I've NEVER promoted outlawing foreign languages. People obviously have an advantage in life if they can speak multiple languages fluently. However, to promote the saftey of the American people as a whole, one language for governemental purposes is needed.

I am intrigued by your point of view, I would just like to see some hard proof supporting your position.

Shouldn't this be an issue that the state or local governments are allowed to decide for themselves? Most of the post here reference driving privileges to support a constitutional amendment for English as the national language. Isn’t that a bit of overkill? If your state wants to make it a requirement that you understand traffic signs in English before you can get a license, that might be justifiable legislation. I don't see how that leads to a constitutional amendment though.

Ouroboros-
Unfortunately for the states, many of which already have english only laws, their rights were overruled by Clinton's EO 13166 (see my post on 08/05/02 for details).

This EO forces ANY agency receiving federal funds of any sorts to comply with LEP assistance. I know my home state of Georgia and my former home state of Illinois both received some money from the federal government for their driver licensing programs. Therefore, the states have no choice but to follow EO 13166. This is despite the fact the Georgia has an english only law.

This should explain why an amendment was proposed for the whole nation rather than leaving the issue to the states.

Those state agencies always have the option to not accept federal funding. I still don't see justification for a national language amendment.

Jaime-

Saying we have a national language is like saying we have a national religion. There is no reason to come out and announce English as our official language, saying that we will use it our govenmental affairs doesn't change a thing. I don't see how this promotes the safety of the American people as a whole. We know what language is spoken here and we know which language is spoken in our house of congress...

You don't see how it promotes safety? It really comes down to driving - reading and comprehending road signs. See Mike's examples from his post in this topic from July 23rd.

And I disagree that it is like a national religion. Religion is covered by the 1st Amendment, language is not. In that respect, legally, Ouroboros was correct in saying this issue should be left to the states.

I'm sorry that I disagree with you but last time I checked our street signs were in English. So once again what would that change...

Whether it's in our bible, I mean constitution really is irrelevant to me. They did some things right but they did a lot wrong.

The connection I was trying to make was that these are two things that we (should) pride ourselves on. Both of which we allow to freely roam.

Everyone would UNDERSTAND them. That's how. And when they crashed carrying chemicals, they could tell us. Or their truck was about to fall apart and kill a family of 8, we'd at least have the opportunity to notify them.



Seeing as it is our Constitution, the document that grants you your freedom, and it is something that we "(should) pride ourselves" in, I'd suggest you give it a read. Come on over, you can read my copy.

Mike

This is a FREE country, the more ammendments to the consitution there are, the less freedom we have. English is not OUR language to begins with, obviously, and therefore it should not be made a national language. I do believe that everyone in America should have a capable knowledge of English . . . that is the ablitiy to function on a basic level in an English speaking society. BUT, I believe that their language should not be cut out. If a store owner wants to put up only signs in Spanish, a very dominent feature in the neighborhood I live in, then we shouldn't step in and tell them to put up English signs.

BB-

Perhaps you did not read the original post. It referred to the government's use of English. Store owners would be allowed to post signs in any or as many languages as their hearts desired.

If you have a problem with too many amendments, I would be quite happy to repeal others to keep their numbers low (ok, maybe just the 16th, but we only need to balance out one, right?).

I am intrigued by your comments about English not being "OUR" language? Please explain that further.

Most of me just takes pride in the fact that I live in a great country. But there is a lot of #### wrong with it. This place may be perfect for you to live in but it isn't ideal to me. "But then again there is no one right way to live". I choose to live here because it's the closest thing to it and I too lazy to learn another language right now. But I will always call this place home.

But on the argument "Everyone would UNDERSTAND them. That's how. And when they crashed carrying chemicals, they could tell us. Or their truck was about to fall apart and kill a family of 8, we'd at least have the opportunity to notify them."

Isn't this just as likely as any tourist crashing into a telephone pole that falls into a house and then kills a sleeping baby. Or a legal mexican immigrant transporting sand to canada flipping over on the freeway and ruining your coffee.

I'm done writing for now I'll reply again soon




Edited by admin for profanity.

Hey Madtown - over here! Check out this English only debate. I'd love to hear your opinion.

I agree that English should be our one and only government language: however, I'm not sure we need a constitutional amendment. I also agree that no one should drive without knowing how to read and write English.

There is a large Mexican population in my state. They seem to be hard working, family orientated people. I think they will learn English just out of necessity. They need time to do this.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to learn a bit of Spanish. When shopping at my neighborhood delli, which employs several Mexicans, I try to place my order in Spanish (which I get from the internet.) We usually have a good laugh at my efforts.

During the winter my husband and I spend several weeks in Georgia. It is amazing to me how much the Mexicans are contributing to the building industry and road work and landscaping. Now I suppose someone will say they are taking all our jobs. They are only taking the jobs nobody else wants.

As I have said before.
As a foreign national It is not my right to suggest amendments.

However I can say this.
I object to Americans claiming they speak English.
The language you speak may be English in origin but it is American English.

The English language was once described as "The language Vacuum of the World. It sucks in others words and uses them as it's own".
You only need to look in the dictionary to find how many were 'stolen'.

America has it's own style of English and has introduced even more 'stolen' words from it's cosmopolitan society and also changed spellings.
Again check in 'The English Oxford Dictionary' and see how many you spell differently.

The bottom line is that you speak American.

Oh no! Not you too? We get that from Canada all the time.
Following is a little rhyme I sent to CBC on the subject.

Today was hot and humid, with thunder
So indoors I stayed with WORDS,WOE and WONDER
Also, QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS, I investigated
There I found some Canadians irritated

Angus Taylor, a man from BC
Says he's just as American as me ( should be I, but I doesn't rhyme)
Angus doesn't like the word Mom
It's American, he claims with aplomb (A. objects to us calling ourselves Americans)

TO BE CONTINUED

Well, gosh Angus, is that so bad
I don't understand why you're so mad
And, Yes it's true, HUH we do say
What of it? You guys say EH

However, Russ Germain said
While discussing ZEE and ZED
"Make no mistake, we are NOT Americans
I say, that's ok pal, we are NOT Canadians

We do have railways in the US of A
Though, most times, railroad is what we say (concering song I've Been Workin on the Railroad)
They are both good words that mean the same thing
So just substitute railway whenever you sing
TO BE CONTINUED

part 3

The English language is not yours alone
Other people have made it their own
They've made changes in this word and that
I know you don't like it, but that's where it's at.

I, for one, try to speak right
Over our language I don't wish to fight
But, I CANNOT say zed for zee
It just doesn't sound right to me

Madtown.

LOVE IT!!!.

You think you have problems?.....

I live in Australia and, although the language is English based, to a purist (of which I am NOT) the Aussies have 'hung drawn and quartered' it.

For instance....
Good day and how are you? becomes.......G'Day, howyagoing?.
It will be alright dont worry about it becomes......She'll be right, no worries.
Toilet becomes........Dunny.
Food becomes....Tucker.

And so on.

The point I am making is that it is all English based but peculiar to the nation that speaks it.
Hence Aussies speak Aussi English, Americans speak American English etc..etc.

I'll buy that!

I think we should make australian our second language. I love the accent and I love the terms you use for certain things.

Guess what accent I love most. Yup! Irish! I love all thing Irish. I told my daughter
that for my funeral I want a big crowd (bring em in off the streets if you have to )
to sing WHEN IRISH EYES ARE SMILING! And then go have a party to celebrate
my great life in this wonderful PEACEFUL country
OMG! I'd better quit or open a funeral thread

Mom of Three. I have a very close friend who is Italian and she feels exactly as you about learing English.
Her father came to the US as a child, I'm not sure if her mother was born here or not, but she is 100%
Italian.

I'm just certain that Spanish speaking people will learn English as time goes by. I can't be against
doing all we can to accomodate Spanish speaking children in our schools. The easier we make it
for them to do well in school, the better citizens they will become.

My friend is irritated that most products now come with directions printed in English and Spanish.
But, isn't that good old American Capitalism? Spanish speaking people.....a new market to capture.

BTW, do you make great spaghetti with sausage and meatballs? UMMMM

Tanti auguri

I am against allowing the schools to accomodate non-english speaking persons.

They need to learn english. My x-wife is a teacher. She told me the horror stories of having kinds in her class who can't speak english. How can we expect them to learn the ciriculam if they can't understand the language?

I say put them in a full time english class. THEN, when their ready, put them in regular classes. Lumping everyone together hurts both those who understand english, and those who don't.

--cheers

Very good suggestion. Also, hire some bilingual teachers. Kids learn fast.

Madtown, I just got a new job. and guess what? We have people come in all the time that DO NOT speak English. They have an interrupter with them. And that is cool. They are of spanish decent. So of course we all know that the second language is Spanish. Not Italian not French German etc. We now have ATM's that are in Spanish. Not Italian not German not French or Polish. Why just Spanish? MY thought is of cousre besides English, Spanish if the SECOND lauguage and that is where is should be. People of different etnics get by without having to accomidate their language. Yes Spanish is the biggest by all means. but if you want to live in the U.S. learn the language. Our ancestors learned the language and so should they. And by the way I make the BEST Italian food. Ask Jaime and Mike

Mom of 3, I can understand the ATM machine in Spanish because the bank wants their business.
I noticed there are now Spanish greeting cards in the stores. Again, there is money to be made.

I don't really understand why only Spanish. Could it be because so many Mexicans came so
fast. It seemed that way to me anyway.

I've been told that a school is opening here for Spanish speaking children
only. It may be just a rumor, but I think this would be a good thing if the main purpose of the school
is to teach English.


I agree, if you want to live here, learn the language. I think most of them will.

Anti-Bilingualism -From Battle over bilingual education- Herbert London, president of the Hudson Institute & John M. Olin professor of humanities at New York Univ.

Bilingual nations such as Canada are fraught with cultural schisms that have led to
balkanization.

There hasn't been a national referendum on this matter and there isn't likely to be
one.

Bilingualism doesn't mean the embrace of two languages. If it did my suspicion is that
the nation might embrace it. Instead it is the contention that the host society should
accommodate itself to those who employ only their mother tongue

There is an implicit political judgment associated with both major parties that
pandering to the growing Hispanic population for votes is necessary.

The reality suggests that those who do not speak English are
handicapped---economic aspiration is limited to English language proficiency.

Pro-Bilingualism by Domenico Maceri-contributing columnist to HispanicVista.com

The ability to speak a foreign language is becoming vital to our national security as
the FBI made clear soon after last year's terrorist attacks when the agency
announced it needed Arabic Speakers.

More can and needs to be done to close this language gap and avoid sending
challenged representatives abroad to our embassies and consular centers.
Linguistically capable individuals need to be sought in the immigrant community and
be encouraged to apply for positions requiring language skills.

Even if immigrants don't know a language, they can use their bilingual skills to learn it
a lot faster than monolingual Americans. For example, it's easy for a
Spanish-speaker to learn Portuguese because the two languages are closely related.
Similar causes apply for eastern European and Asian languages.

In the long run, however, the US needs to develop a climate of multilingualism by
encouraging language study in schools and colleges beginning in the early grades.
Immigrant children should be encouraged to maintain their parents' languages as they
learn English.

Bilingualism would benefit the entire education of students. Students educated in
more than one language develop a mental agility that monolinguals lack. One of
these advantages has to do with "plasticity" of the brain. Bilingual children recognize
that just as there are two ways to say something, there are also two ways to learn
and solve problems.

The above is the gist of the article, what do you all think about it?

We need to have one National language. It is potentialy dangerous now not to be able to speak English in this country. Think about it. If people can't communicate with ea. other how can they live together? Multiculturism is dying a slow painful ill-informed death. The IDEA is great...the reality is pathetic.


Darcaine

I agree, there should be ONE NATIONAL LANGUAGE, and EVERYONE should be able to speak it, but don't you think that bilingualism is important, since we deal with so many countries?

MT

It was recently reported that bi-ligual classes and schools did a huge dis-service to the students. Their grades were bad, and they were way behind in school. Total immersion is working fabulously. I guess it took a lot of trial and error. I read a couple of articles on this but it was 2 or 3 weeks ago so I will have to see if I can find it. It was most interesting. I think the study was done in Ca. and AZ in particular.

Excerpt from N Y Times article:
"Given that New York City schools have experienced a 49% increase in non-English speaking immigrants in six years preceding 1995, it can be argued that their continues to be an even broader need for bilingual education. Now classes are taught in Spanish, Chinese, Haitian, Russian, Korean, Arabic, Vietnamese, Polish, Bengali and French. Not every school can afford the full bilingual program but many give instructions in native language several hours a day along with instruction in English."

I just wonder how many school systems can afford such programs. Most of the school systems seem to be under a strain already.

I agree Nettie. The thought is a good one, but to have them funded would kill the education systems. In Chicago we have schools closing all the time because they cannot afford to keep them open.

The area in which I live is very ethnically mixed. It is an upper middle class neighborhood. Bilingual schools were tried, but the kids learned at such a slow pace that the parents took charge. They raised a heck of a fuss, and total English immersion was done on a trial basis. It was a real eye opener. They started learning at a fast pace, and in many cases out-scored the majority students by the middle of the year.
Head start is a beginning for kids that come from poor neighborhoods. Even though some say it is a baby sitting service it is more than that. These kids are in some instances taught to read, definitely to get along with other kids in social situation. Theses are important items.
In closing I will say that bilingual schools simply don't work and are a drain on our school systems that are already in dire striates. The article previously quoted should make us realize that trying to do this for all of the immigrants is impossible. Keeping their 2nd language going must be done in the home if they value it.

In the one school I'm familiar with here, an "English as a Second Language" room is provided where kids can go if they become too frustrated. There are bilingual teachers there to help them.
The one teacher I talked to (Kindergarten) said she has learned a few Spanish words and the kids are picking up English fast.

MT

Of course problems with bilingual education do not justify amending the Constitution to fix English as an official language, it's simply not neccesary...

I havent read the entire thread yet, but I had to respond to this. Multilingualism PUTS LIVES IN DANGER!? Being able to speak two or more language kills people?! I didnt notice, then I suppose that Europe is FULL of murderers and risk-takers, since there are plenty of people who are multilingual over there. In case you didnt notice, Im being saracastic.

Treating someone like they are stupid for not knowing a language is ludicrous. Just because English isnt their native language does not mean they should be ostracized. Do you know how long it takes and how difficult it is to learn a new language? And the truth is, you could spend 10 years in your native country taking English (or what have you) classes, and NOTHING will perpare you for actually living America or England. Ive taken four years of French, and can read mediocre in that language, but when someone speaks French to me, they may as well be speaking Thai. It is incredibly difficult to understand a SPOKEN language, it takes people YEARS to learn it and longer to become fluent. Just because someone has immigrated here, and their English isnt fluent, does not mean they are stupid and not learning our language. You dont become fluent just be stepping on American soil. I especially think its more difficult for Asians to learn English, because the letters and sounds are more forgien (Ive tried learning Japanese, and its difficult. Try learning an alphabet that is nothing like your own.) Ive talked to a vast range of forgieners and it taks anywhere from 2 years (a Polish girl) to four (a friend from Indonesia) to six (a co worker of mine who is Thai) years, and they still have some trouble.

I dont obviously dont think that we should have English as a our national language. We are founded on embracing those who are different, and it should stay that way. I think that if you want to succeed in the USA, it is beneficial to know English, and those who want to succeed, learn it. I also think it would be wrong if English was a national language, it would mean that if someone was arrested, we (the US law enforcement) could give them a trial, without a translator. Who would know if we just arrested someone simply because they were forgien (possibly a tourist?) That person would never be able to speak out, or know his rights.

Kim - perhaps you should read the entire post...

Being able to speak multiple languages is ALWAYS a benefit.

The multilingualism to which I was referring was Bill Clinton's executive order mandating all government documents be available in whatever language one wants. That is with what I have a problem. I apologize for my poor choice of words.

The reason I advocate a national language is for efficiency of government. Road signs, budget reports, legal proceedings and ballots are things I advocate should only be in English.

More power to people if they want to speak X,Y, or Z language at home, in their communities or even in privately run stores - but not in government.