Please, if you're not a socialist, communist or green, don't post here.


Right now, socialism in America is all but underground. There's a few places where one of the parties manages to elect a few people, but in general there's so little socialism in America it's just depressing. Everyone votes for either far-right neocons like the Bush administration or homogenized "moderates" who do nothing but enrich themselves. We need to correct this situation. What we've been doing for the last 100 years in America isn't working. We need a new vision and new purpose. If we want to change the world, we're gonna have to change ourselves first.

I've seen some pretty serious problems with leftist political organizing. Generally, this is what I identify as the biggest problems we have:


1.) Disunity. This is, by far, the biggest problem that the left in America faces. There are so many tiny little fragmented parties that we never come up with a candidate that can get anything even close to national recognition. Socialism is supposed to be a system of unity and solidarity, yet we can't even work together. This needs to change if we're going to have any sort of popular movement in America. Not that I'm suggesting it all be centralized, but having one big organization is going to help get out the message.

Generally, socialist parties are divided by geography and ideology. However, in the end, there really isn't that much difference. Sure, some may be pro-Castro or whatever, but they're generally all democratic socialists now. Sure, there's a few wackos that want violent revolution, but ever party has its extremists. I say we incorporate all these small parties into one big one. We could call it the Democratic Socialist Party, the Socialist Party, the Populist Party or even something as innocuous as the Progressive Party. Otherwise we're going to be stuck on the same level as dead-end parties like the libertarians and the neo-Nazis for long into the future. I hope we can change the Democratic Party, but we need a voice of socialism too. We need one party, united and strong. We don't all have to agree on everything, but we should all be together. Isn't that what socialism's all about?


2.) Firey Rhetoric. The time of calling for the downfall of Capitalism in firey speeches is over. The time of wearing red armbands and waving red flags is over. The time of glorification of the Soviet Union is over. These things are not going to win hearts and minds, they're going to alienate people and scare off anyone who doesn't already believe what we're saying. We're gonna need to win people from the center and the moderate left (and the right too,) so we're gonna need to be calm, levelheaded and inclusive. Standing up on stage and ranting about the evils of the baby-eating Capitalists may be a good way to vent your anger, but it isn't a good way to get people to agree with you.

Socialism needs a more logic-based, people-loving rationalist rhetoric if it wants to survive. America isn't a nation of laborers anymore; nobody wants class warfare. We need to show people how Capitalism is hurting them and the world, and we need facts. We can't all be firebrands or else we'll look like fools. Show them pictures of Chinese sweatshops. Show them how all the wealth is concentrated on the very top of the economic ladder. Show them how right-wing rhetoric about "welfare queens," "the liberal media" and "the virtue of greed" are myths, don't just rant and rave. The Russian Revolution ended long ago, guys. This is now.


3.) Lack of Focus. Generally, people are happy to be socialists and want change, but they won't really do anything. This is toxic to reform. Back when I lived in New York, one of the socialist parties (DSWP maybe?) would run a gubernatorial candidate every year, and he'd get a reasonably high number of votes, but that was jsut about everything they did. I never saw them anywhere else, and so their influence was negligible. This is something that needs to change.

We need to encourage our comrades to go out there and do something. We need people out there spreading the word. We can't just expect people to change their minds if no one's convincing them. We need to hold town hall meetings, host teach-ins, run charities and send out materials. I know that socialist organizations generally operate with no or very little money, but it's still possible to do these things when you have a large (or even a small but significant) number of socialists in a community. There are people out there that are going to be receptive to what we're saying, we just haven't reached them. More than half of America didn't vote last election, and I'm sure that for some of them it's because they thought all those guy were phonies. We need to give them an alternative.


4.) Lack of Mass Appeal. Right now, socialism isn't sexy. Hell, all of politics isn't sexy, but at least people can get the vote out. People just don't see what's to gain from socialism. They don't have the passion we do. This is something we need to change if we're gonna get anywhere. We need to give socialism an image that it didn't have before. Instead of the angry youth with a red armband, we need to show socialism as something more suave and intelligent over *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** and belligerent.

Now, that's easier said than done. Of course, we need a large PR campaign. Socialism is famous for it's pamphleteering, and though we shouldn't stop that we shouldn't keep it as our main focus. An idea that I had a few weeks ago was to get intelligent, articulate and attractive people to go around the city, state, country, ect. and give lectures/teach-ins about how the world really works. I'm thinking Noam Chomsky's style. I'm sure that there's a lot of people working in the anti-globalization movement that would be willing to do something like this full-time if we could get a large organization to fund them. Even if we can't get full-timers, I'm sure some people would be very interested in talking to the public about important issues. We need to get people interested, because in the end we're a people-driven party, unlike the money-driven Democrats and Republicans.


5.) Nomenclature. Some words are just turn-offs to the general populace. "Communism" is a turn-off. You and I know what socialism means, but Joe and Jane Citizen probably just think "Soviet Union" when they heard Communism. "Revolution" is a turn-off. Sure, I like to use terms like "social revolution" and "cultural revolution" to describe what we're doing, but just talking about "revolution" implies violence. There's a few other terms we shouldn't use, but I can't think of them right now.


6.) Support of Fidel Castro. This is far from universal, but it's a troubling problem. I think that support of Cuba and Cuban socialism is essential, and I think that the people of Cuba have been incredibly strong in surviving four decades of US aggression, but I never have and never will support the government of Fidel Castro. Although I would agree most of the so-called "democratic" opposition is really just US puppets that have no interest in working for Cuba's future similar to Ahmed Chalabi in Iraq, and I support an end to the end of the devastating embargo we've perpetrated against the Cuban people, glorification of dictators like Fidel Castro is counter-productive. Fidel is not helping Cuba, if anything he'd hurting it. Cuba needs democratic socialism, not dictatorship. That serves no purpose.

If you want someone to glorify, try Salvator Allende. As committed to reform as any other socialist leader, and probably more, as much a victim of US aggression as any other, but much better in his methodology. He came to power without bloodshed and he attempted to bring the country into socialism through peaceful means instead of violent revolution. Allende is a hero, and we should remember him. September 11th was a day of tragedy not only for America, but also for Chile, for that's the day in 1973 that the Chilean military and Pinochet disposed Allende's democratic government with the aid of the CIA and set up the military junta that would devastate the country for the next decade and more.


7.) De-socialization of history. I remember a certain history class I had in high school. We were studying the early 20th century in America, and we got a handout on Upton Sinclair, author of the famous expose of the Chicago meat-packing industry. We did one side focusing on various aspects of his work and life, and then I turned it over: it was a piece about Upton Sinclair's political philosophy: you guessed it, socialism. Well, I was happy to see this, but I was shocked when the teacher said "Well, we're not going to do that. Pass up your sheets." This is the way it works in America: if you're a socialist, you get mentioned, but your socialism doesn't.

Martin Luther King Jr. once said "The evils of Capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and racism." Helen Keller once spoke of the Russia Revolution: "In the East a new star is risen! With pain and anguish the old order has given birth to the new, and behold in the East a man-child is born! Onwards, comrades, all together! Onward to the campfires of Russia! Onward to the coming dawn!" Albert Einstein once wrote one of the greatest defenses of socialism ever conceived, entitled Why Socialism?. George Orwell fought in the trenches of the Spanish Civil War with the socialists, and continued to be a socialist all of his life, even though he was a passionate detractor of the Soviet Union. Even Adam Smith, who's held up as some sort of saint of Capitalism, once wrote that when two businessmen are together, it's pretty much safe to assume there's in a conspiracy to hurt to populace. We have to dispel this. We have to show that throughout history, socialism and socialists have played a major role in reform, policy and culture. Otherwise, we'll lose our past.


8.) Slander. While some words have become politically incorrect for good reason, others have become politically incorrect because of conservative slander. Words as innocuous as "liberal," "leftist" and "socialist" have become bad words, because no one knows their real definition anymore. People hear liberal, they think "taxes." People hear "leftist," they think all crazy kinda stuff. People hear "socialist," and they think Soviet Union. This needs to change. If people don't even know the real definitions of basic words like these, then how can we expect them to make in informed decision?


My question is this: do you agree or disagee with this proposed changes? Do you have others to suggest yourself? Do you have some better solution than what I put up?

This thread may have to be split into several threads to debate each point, but for now I'll keep it as one thread and she how it works out. And once again, if you're not a socialist, communist or green, don't post here.

Edited to add emphasis to the rules for this thread - J

Why i do agree socialism has fallen down via the cracks, i would most likely put my thumb on the people in power around the world. Capitalism is a money making machine in its own right, and the leaders of various cultures know this, so they entertain themselves with thoughts of wealth and power, and i would hope the people.

Various nations have held onto some socialist ideas, such as France, but they still go for the mixed economy. As for in America, its not very hard to paint a image to some people why they don’t want tax money to go into "socialist" ideas such as education and healthcare, but would also like that to become a private operation.

I think as we move farther and farther along this road, things will emerge that socialists, or greens can use to empower their voice. You are right though, that the speech needs to be clean, we need to absorb into the mainstream look to portray our image without scaring any nuclear families to much. I also think we should start small, such as cities or states, and have plans that work, and that last, no one wants to give away what stability they have in America for a "pipe dream".

Some major problems that i see to any kind of dem socialism is rather simple, our culture does not condition people to be like that, so any such practice is alien or the other to them. Again, i think that a solid meaning at liberal colleges could gain some momentum at universities, but you have to have some meat with the words.

Any real changes would have to be grassroots, with laid off workers of corruption or power deals, environmentalists, the poor, people without healthcare, their is millions of votes, we just need to be able to grapple them, and be progressive in a positive light to the people.

As for gaining any help from the current politicians, i don’t think you have any luck their. Image is more important then doing their job, and a slight miscalculation can leave them without a job, or that its rather viscous system those people live in.

i also think that we should get away from the ideas of a sole leader or leaders, and try to move towards people that want to work for people, not just some personal interest group, such as just socialists.

Overall its just grassroots, and a long road.

capitalism allows you to discerning with reality, i don’t think the same can be said about socialism, this area needs to be shown to have importance. Such as some over paid athlete, or the abuse or discerning nature of capitalism, with a reported 42 million people without any form or healthcare, then some baseball player that makes around 20 million a year to entertain people. I also think its dire to point out that socialism, in particular dem socialism is not communism.

I also think the use of humanist qualities can show some benefits of socialism. Such as the highly completive and dog eat dog world of America, and i would bet its direct correlation with violence, health and mental problems, and the fact what most people call work can easily be called psychological torture, but have not a choice but to do it.

Another point can be the stress to survive then the relation to amount of time many people have to spend with their kids, the fact these kids have to go to sometimes poor education systems. The fact economically depressed areas don’t go away but grow. Our prison systems, another things that can be used by socialists, with some form or real progress, prisons current condition is enough to make a person sick, and does not work at all. The use or a repressive moral code along with what America is about has giving rise to the largest and most diverse porn industry ever known to humans. Again Americas problems are deep, and to make them better would require some serious work, and answers that nothing to date can give, but I imagine that also would correlate with the overall lack of education on the populous, but then again who can afford it, even at cheap universities the general cost of four years is around 45-50 thousand dollars, and that does not cover everything.

Real study and real work will be required, maybe we can import some socialists to help us.

Some of my work as a Green Party activist falls amoung those very lines. We held monthly clean-ups of city streets. We held Earth Day Festival write letter to the editor on a monthly basis, passed out pamplets in different events. Held concerts in Bars and collected donations and registered people to vote.

These are the steps that we need to take to keep our voice in the public spot light. But there is more we need to do as well. We have a long road ahead of us and the more we can passionately fire people the better.

Monty