Story here...

What do you think? Do you think starting a club for whites would create/further racial tension? Should only minority groups be allowed to have their own clubs? I think its just fine. If there are (as stated in the article) clubs for blacks and Asians, then why not whites? To me, it seems only fair. It may also be an indicator of more racial self-segregation. I might be wrong. What say you?

This is an excellent topic for discussion. Thank you.

The first thought that crosses one's mind is Why should there be a club for members of ethnic group A and not for ethnic group B? In a sane world, there should be no need for such clubs at all. Sadly, this is not now, never has been, and never will be a sane world. It is a terrible fact that some groups have been repressed by other groups. These repressed groups tend to form societies in order to combat this repression. As time goes on, and this repression is lessened, members of the repressing group may feel that they in turn are being repressed, and form their own societies. It seems to me to be a matter of opinion as to what degree of repression justifies such a society. Was it just to create the NAACP at the time of Jim Crow laws and lynchings? I would say so. Was it just to create the KKK at the time? I would say not. If the Caucasian students at this particular high school are being repressed by other ethnic groups, they may have some validity for their society. If they are not, I fail to see why it would be necessary. (I would ask the same question about any society based on ethnicity.) I'd certainly prefer to see a "cross-cultural" (or some better term) society designed to celebrate all ethnic diversity at the school.

An analogy occurs to me. There may be some justification for having a Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgendered society at a school, and indeed many such societies exist. Members of the GLBT community certainly have many good reasons to feel repressed. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine what need there would be for a "straight" society at a school, other than to exclude GLBT persons. The best situation would be if there could be a society which allowed for greater communication between the GLBT students and "straight" students.

Frankly, I would much rather see all these groups replaced by clubs which celebrate diversity and cultural integration. If, as the founder claims, the Caucasian Club is intended as a move "toward diversity, not bigotry" I think this is a good idea. If, however, the motivation is (as she admits in the next paragraph) to address the fact that "she and her friends feel slighted" by other clubs, then that strikes me as a stupid reason for forming an organization.

Black Student Unions and Asian Societies and Hispanic Clubs were originally formed as advocacy and support groups to address problems of discrimination - though some have since also been focusing on celebrating various cultural components of minority ethnicities. I would much prefer to see the latter being explored through multi-ethnic organizations.

If the Caucasian Club is being formed as an advocacy group, I see no point. If it is being formed, as claimed, to explore diversity, then they chose a really counter-productive name. If the intention is to be inclusive - to not "slight" anyone - why not call it, say, the American Club?


Oh - and, for the record, Victoria, most official gay organizations in high schools are either Gay-Straight Alliances (GSA) or members of the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN). They welcome - and encourage the participation of - both gay and straight students and their motivation is increased awareness and communication.

This is a tough question- there is a undercurrent of racism in the black and asian clubs as well, with the presumption that white poeple out there are working day and night to "bring a brutha down".

I guess if it is not a club to really found a white supremist group, then more power to them. Though I sympathize with poeple of color, as my posts in the past have indicated, there is no balance to the racial issue, especially in the schools, so I have nothing against a caucasion club if it doesn't degenerate into a KKK type organization. As poeple have said on this site before, every month is white history month in school, I see no need to glorify the accomplishments of whites more in a club, but some kind of organization that might chart some kind of course dealing with caucasion issues and racial relations is not inappropriate these days either. One thing that bothers me with caucasion kids in the US is the co-opting of the black culture and homey wanna-bees. They irritate the crap out of me, something that counter acts that doesn't hurt me LOL

Hello all,

This is my first post here.....

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with a "Caucasian club" at all. In fact, I'm rather glad to see it so long as it stays peaceful and productive.

Whites these days seem to be taught that all of their ancestors(and therefore themselves as well) are "white devils" that enslaved the world and are the root of all problems in this day and age. This actually is rather untrue. Most of our European immigrant ancestors were quite poor and could never afford slaves even if they found this sort of thing ethically "okay".

I support European Americans "getting in touch" with their ancestral roots and their rich cultural heritage unfettered by today's PC "multicultural" dogma.

cheers

I, being an asian male, would not have an issue with this club being created.

The problem though is that stupid people, minorities and also people of caucasian background, will see this as a group that is established to keep minorities out, which will also give them the mindset that this group will be a place for the Hitler youth to recruit.

The idea isn't stupid, it is the people that cannot understand what this group is really about, that are stupid.

The people who can't understand what the club is about are stupid? Do you know the purpose of the club? Contrary to your beliefs, the girl is not trying to create this club because she has some genuine interest in caucasian history - she said it herself that she did it because she felt "slighted" by the other clubs at the school. If you think people who oppose a club based on the "well they got stickers on their tests, so I want one too!" mentality are stupid, I beg you to reconsider. I don't see the club as being a hitler recruiting agency, I see it as dumb that people in the majority need their own club... to do what?! They're the majority, mostly everything in the entire world caters to them. They need a club to discuss their problems? What problems? The widespread issue of reverse discrimination? Please.
"Teen Starts 'Caucasian Club' at High School"

Good selective quoting, SuzySteamboat. Here's the quotation you missed: "It's not racist because we're not excluding anyone, and we're just trying to solve the issues of racial disparity."

Maybe she wants to do it because she was slighted, maybe she wants to solve the issues of racial disparity. It's just too hard to tell from a couple of AP articles.

Edit: Darn it, same article...

My first reaction to the situation is a realization of the irony that an organization called the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, an organization whose name implies looking out for the best interest of one group of people, would have a problem with a Caucasian Club.

But, since they don't view this as "advancing colored people", they are against it.

Freedom High School has an Asian Club, and it also has a Black Student Union. Why not a Caucasian Club?

Sure seems like there is a double standard going on here.

Mike

Since there are groups for minorities, why not for Caucasians?

It seems likely to me that a white could view themselves as excluded from those other groups. If it is ok to celebrate that "Black is Beautiful" or other racial themes, why not "White is Wonderful"?

There is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are. Now, if the group degenerates into "We are better than You" or some other such nonsense, then the group can properly be disbanded.

Under the circumstances, I do not see how this petition for a club can reasonably be refused, as long as it follows the guidelines that the other clubs are required to follow. Teenagers especially have a need to belong, and as McClelland is not Asian or African American, she feels she does not belong in those existing clubs.

Chess club isn't for everyone...

(Edited to say: Ideally, the high school experience would include individual friendships with a diverse group of people--then all of these organizations would be less important. I thought about suggesting that she start an American Club, but the title itself might suggest to some that members of the Asian Club and the Black Student Union somehow aren't American. )

It seems to me the point of school clubs is to unite students with common interests. One has to wonder what the purpose of an all white club would be, and exactly what they would all have as a common interest. Now, I could understand something like, the 'Irish club', but the 'white club'? I don't get it.

I wonder what this club would do, exactly. I mean, I think it's great that white people are finally free and all, and I'm glad they are allowed to vote, but....

Whether or not we like to admit it, there are still issues of bias and discrimination against minorities in our society. I can see why a BSU or an ASU might make sense - there are issues to discuss. What would the Caucasian Club talk about? What pressing issues face the white race? I mean besides whining about how easy those black folks have it...

I'm not saying the club should not be allowed, I'm just saying that it's kind of silly. If people want to erase the need for minority advocacy organizations, there's plenty of worthwhile work that can be done to imrpove society - whining and moping about "reverse discrimination" is NOT one of those ways.

Oh well. Might as well let in a caucasian club. We already have a jew crew, Asian club, Indian club, Hispanic club, christian club and a much publicized Satanic thought society. I don't see any harm as long as they don't exclude anyone.

I don't see exactly what they would celebrate. Everyone seems bored to tears with caucasian history. And it's not like Caucasians have anything interesting like dragon boat races.

But it wouldn't be "reverse discrimination", it would be discrimination.

"Reverse discrimination" implies that white people are the only group who discriminates, and I think that the current situation is evidence enough that this is not the case. Disallowing the group only because they are white? Yup, that's discrimination alright.

While I think the real reasoning behind this club is likely just a high school antic not unlike many I tried to pull (and this is a good one), I could certainly see situations where this would be positive.

For example, is it not possible for a club such as the caucasian club to hold or attend a mixer with another club, maybe the Asian club or the black club? I see no negative aspects of two groups of different backgrounds but with similar views interacting with each other.

Another example. There were no black children where I went to grade school. There were, for the most part, no black children in my neighborhood. Even in high school, I think the total number of black students in my graduating class was less than fifty, out of a class of about 1,000. Needless to say, I had little interaction with anyone but caucasians prior to graduating from high school.

I personally have no reservations about people of other races, but I could see that some might. Some of the racism I witnessed in high school, in hindsight, was likely caused by ignorance or fear, not because of some actual aversion to another race. High schoolers hate anyone who isn't like them...

What about the child whose parents are racist at home? Some kids only learn of other races from what their parents tell them. Unfortunately, some parents are racists.

Could a club like this allow provide support to students who may feel intimidated, uncomfortable, or confused when dealing with people of other races? I bet it could.

Of course, if the white hoods come out, the club should certainly go away.

Mike

Whether the club exists or not doesn't bother me. The motivation behind the club does, as that directly relates to what the club is going to be about. "Selective quoting" my tush. Okay, let's include another quote: "It's not racist because we're not excluding anyone, and we're just trying to solve the issues of racial disparity," McClelland said." And since she's so concerned about racial disparity, she's going to start... a Caucasian Club?! Makes sense to me . Therefore, I believe her main reason for starting the club was, as she said - because she felt slighted by the other clubs. The "racial disparity" hogwash was just trying to give it a validated feel.
Btw... as far as I know, racially centered clubs ( at least at my school) ARE open to everyone. The Black Student Union deals with issues facing the black community, and as such I don't think non-blacks would be too interested, but I believe they are still able to join if they wanted to. If she wants to solve "racial disparity", how's about, instead of isolating herself into the white club, she goes out and joins all the ethnic clubs at her school, and encourages everyone else to do the same? Wouldn't that make a lot more sense for her supposed goal of "solving racial disparity" than by creating a white club?!

I suspect that if the Caucasian club ever comes into being, it will have to have some goals/projects or it will just fizzle. Sometimes the best thing to do is let something like this happen and then let it die a natural death. Perhaps she will form some friendships that will continue after the club is gone. And that wouldn't be so bad. A sense of belonging is what clubs are all about anyway.

At least it's not the way it was for my dad when he was growing up in Quebec. (He was born in 1918.) The boys formed two basic gangs, Protestant and Catholic, and they would beat up on each other regularly. Dad said they had a taunt, "Protestant, Protestant, ring the bell! Catholic, Catholic, go to hell!"

(He'd be rolling in his grave if he knew I've converted to Catholicism! )

Would not make much sense if the minority oriented groups favor discrimination, i.e. affirmative action, against whites. Many people feel that in some cases whites are being deprived the equal protection supposedly given to them by the 14th Amendment. Any minority clubs addressing that issue from that perspective?

I don't see what the problem is. If fact, the girl is part Hispanic and American Indian so she isn't fully caucasion anyway. Fair is fair. If there is a black club and asian club, why discriminate against caucasions?

Speaking of Clubs, let's not forget our Black, Hispanic and Asian Caucus' in Congress.

I don't see a threat to having a caucasion club. They are in High School. Like any other club in high school they have to follow rules and regulations.
Be it another ethnic group, chess club, whatever.
According to the founder of this club she says anyone is welcome. Just as anyone is welcome in other ethnic clubs. But myself, if I was a teenager would I feel comfortable to be in an Afro-american, Hispanic, Asian club or etc. No. What could I contribute?
I say let them try it. I would be interested in how many Afro-americans, hispanics or Asians would WANT to join that club?

Urg. God. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and probably will have to re-inform many white males over and over and over again... and they'll still forget in their rage over the widespread problem of "reverse discrimination." How can affirmative action, Hugo dearest, be discrimination against whites when the people who benefit most from it are white females?! Honestly, I am not a supporter of affirmative action, but I support it's purpose. And I don't think that purpose has been validated yet - and since I can think of no better alternate solution, for affirmative action, I'd prefer to let it stand. Minority clubs do not care in the slightest if the white man thinks he's being deprived of his precious equal protection... they have slightly more important, more relevant things to discuss. The purpose of the Black Student Union, I reiterate, is to address issues facing the black community. And I assume for all other ethnic associations, they would do the same - focus on issues relating to their own race. The only "problem" anyone here can come up with that faces the white community is of reverse discrimination, and then I pretty much feel it'll become a whining session for "it's not fair, blah blah blah." Unless anyone else can educate me on other pressing issues white people would have to discuss about their race?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
In conclusion: there is no valid reason to start a Caucasian Club. Thank you very much.


Affirmative Action Fact Sheet
See who really benefits from affirmative action

The links are relevant to this thread, because they tie in with white people feeling "slighted" by anything minority-centered.

I don't see a pressing need for a caucasian club either, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to start one. But this exposes one of the problems dealing with racial discourse. It's become mainstream to assume whites don't have any cultural identity, that they have no concerns that deal with the white race, that there is no semblance of a white community. Could this mindset be one of the very reasons they want to start this club?
Turn your statement around and insert any other racial identity instead of white, and see how long it takes for you to get blasted for being a bigot or racist.

No valid reason for a club that might sisagree with your own views, is there Suzy? Yep, we can't have a club that does not trump a liberal agenda in school. All these black, latino and asian unions probably just go "blah,blah, blah, life's not fair"

Hugo - please be more constructive than that. How can we debate your blanket generalization that is a one-liner to boot?

Nothing wrong with having an "all whites" club, whatsoever.

Being a different race is just like being a different breed of the same animal. Who would get upset if someone started a "German Shepherd" club for a specific type of dog owner, or a "Himalayan" club for certain cat owners?

No one.

SuzySB,

I read somewhere, can't find it naturally, that "white" will be the minority in this country sometime around 2025 or thereabouts. Should the start of this club, in your opinion, be posponed till then?

It would make a lot more sense then. It's pretty much common knowledge that throughout history, the majority tends to oppress the minority. Whites, for now, are the majority. I'd call them the oppressors, if you will. There is no need for them to start their own club, to "unite to discuss solutions to their problems." As far as I know, there are no good problems facing the white community right now. If they should become the minority, then obviously they would start down the road of being oppressed. And then they should come together to make sure that doesn't happen. And smashtheleft, those dog breed clubs probably wouldn't be started at school. That's the context of the ethnic clubs. They're at school. Also... German Shepards in a German Shepard Club most likely don't talk to each other about problems they're facing.

[quote=SuzySteamboat,Sep 23 2003, 06:56 PM] [QUOTE=SoCaliente_1,Sep 23 2003, 02:52 PM] It would make a lot more sense then. It's pretty much common knowledge that throughout history, the majority tends to oppress the minority. Whites, for now, are the majority. I'd call them the oppressors, if you will. There is no need for them to start their own club, to "unite to discuss solutions to their problems." As far as I know, there are no good problems facing the white community right now. If they should become the minority, then obviously they would start down the road of being oppressed. And then they should come together to make sure that doesn't happen. [/quote]
Of course there are plenty of good reasons for white people to unite. If they are the oppressors then how should we expect for them to maintain their yoke of oppression without successfully working together to maintain their collective boot placed squarely on the neck of the minorities?

And no problems facing whites? You must be kidding. When I go to the ATM to get money it now asks me if I want to make the transaction in English or Spanish! Whites must figure out how to put an end to this language virus that is propagating in our country.

White people also should get together in groups to figure out how to subvert affirmative action laws and Jim Crow laws and such.

Whites people need to unite!

I just happened to look at the polling figures related to that story and 87% would disagree with you Suzy.

Oakley, Ca. I'm not familiar with but what I DO know about quite a few California schools is that there is a very healthy number of minorities represented. It'd be interesting to see if the white population in her particular school was either outnumbered or at least equal to that of the minorities

It is obvious from the racial divide on political issues in this country that whites do have issues. One issue I have as a white male is being labeled an "oppressor". Minorities vote largely Democratic, whites largely Republican. What this comes down to is denying that there are specific concerns for white teens, just as there are for black,latino and asian teens. The "oppressors" in this country are individuals who "oppress" themselves. Of course that is a view probably more predominant among whites. If people don't want a racial divide then have one single student union, or allow all races to self-segregate and celebrate their uniqueness. One "rainbow" student union would be my choice.

I think the real fear of the NAACP is a club where the politics of victimization is not embraced.

Smashtheleft... I hope your post was being intended to be facetious. I don't know how to respond to it otherwise.
SolCal... so what? I wouldn't care if it was 99% who disagreed with me. That in no way makes them right. But if whites were a minority at her school, then I think she would have a valid reason to start a Caucasian Club. I don't think that's the case - she didn't say she felt outnumbered, or was being discriminated against for being part of the minority - she said she felt slighted by the other clubs.
Hugo - I'm sure you'll live. There is no denying the fact that white people have oppressed others since practically the beginning of time. Well maybe not that far back, but close enough. Slavery, Jim Crow laws, Native American Indians, apartheid, practically the entire colonization of America, hell even the Holocaust - all perpetuated by white people with a serious arrogance problem and believing they were superior to all other races. Your history is one of oppression. Don't blame the messenger if you hadn't realized that before. Oppressors probably wasn't the best word I could have used, but I couldn't think of a better one to illustrate the racial dynamics between white people and everyone else.

Of course the middleman in most of those slavery transactions happened to be black. Of course slavery still exists today in countries where the majority is primarily colored. Of course wherever a more technologically sophisticated society has encountered a hunter/gatherer society the results have been dismal for the hunter gatherers, regardless of the color of either group. Yes, obviously there is a need for a caucasion club to publicize these facts as an alternative to the evil white man theory of history.

I could see starting an Irish club, or a French club, or an Italian club, in order to discuss and celebrate one's heritage.

Hugo:
Hugo, you're gonna have to back that statement up. Whites don't "largely" vote Republican. If you combine the "liberal" votes in 2000 (or even if you only count Gore, and leave out Nader), you will find that a majority of people voted for a liberal candidate. There are not enough minority voters in the US for them to tip the scales that much...

smashtheleft:


1. Did you know there also white people who don't speak English? They are often referred to as "Europeans."

2. Thankfully, we have already "subverted" Jim Crow laws - over 30 years ago.

When African slaves were brought to this continent, they were forcibly stripped of their culture. Their music, languages, religions, and customs were almost always banned. The result is that blacks in the US can often not identify with a particular African culture. Since they were demonized and oppressed as a group, based on their skin color, it is natural that they would come together under a "black" banner, in order to address issues which affected them, as a group. White people have no similar history - there have been groups which were oppressed, certainly, like the Irish, or the Jews, but there is no unifying cause for which all white people will unite that is based on their whiteness.

I still say the club should be allowed, I just think it's a dumb idea. If such a club had existed at my high school, I would have thought "caucasian club? What a bunch of dorks!"

I believe a club should have some sort of definitive purpose. What is the purpose of a 'white' club? Where is the commonality? There's no concept of 'heritage appreciation', or mutual common ground. Aside from the obvious point of rubbing it in the face of minorities, there is no reason for it at all. I don't see any basis to prohibit the club, but there is certainly no basis to support it.

From www.bear-left.com

% of Voting
Population % of Vote Gore Bush Nader Other
White 73% 81% 43% 54% 3% 0%
Black 12% 9% 90% 9% 1% 0%
Hispanic 10% 7% 61% 38% 1% 0%
Asian 4% 2% 62% 37% 1% 0%
Other 1% 1% 0% 0% 0% 0%

That cut and paste did not come out too well. 54% of whites voted for Bush in 2000. This 11 percentage point lead was not enough to overcome minority support for Gore and win the popular vote.

We may need a self help therapy group where we can address our collective guilt due to our races tendency to enslave and commit genocidal acts. It might be easier to address this collective guilt without our victims around. Maybe if we properly address this 54% of us won't vote for oppressive fascists in the next Presidential election.

I am shocked at our treatment of OTHERS in election ballot counting. They made up 1% of the voters but apparently none of their votes got counted. It is also apparent from these stats whites are three times more likely to be environmental wackos compared to racial minorities.

Hey, I think the club idea is great! Then the members can discuss what it means to be white. Is it just fair skin that determines this race called "Caucasian"? Are there people considered Caucasian who have olive shades? How did the Spanish Armada change racial lineages in Wales? Ireland?

What about Pat Buchanan's book about this (The Death of the West)? It'd be great discussion material.

And how about cultures who have internal attitudes about the degrees of skin pigmentation?

Oh, and Hawaii! Another interesting mix.

Then maybe talk about white supremacy and what that means. Examine old arguments on this and how they tend to come back up?

I can see a lot of potential for such a club as an exercise in learning, thinking, and debating all sorts of things that students might otherwise not examine.

That the club would be open to all indicates to me a desire to have dialog. That's what we want, right?

“Smashtheleft... I hope your post was being intended to be facetious. I don't know how to respond to it otherwise. “

No, I was being quite serious actually. I fail to see why white people should sit idly by disharmoniously doing nothing, while minorities take over everything in this country from the land to the schools to electorate to the language. Would you sit by idly if I came over to your house, pilfered all of your belongings, raided your refrigerator, and stole your car?

Of course not.

“But if whites were a minority at her school, then I think she would have a valid reason to start a Caucasian Club. I don't think that's the case - she didn't say she felt outnumbered, or was being discriminated against for being part of the minority - she said she felt slighted by the other clubs.”

Oh. So it’s perfectly acceptable to you for minorities and people of color to have clubs etc. to celebrate their respective races, cultures, heritages, etc. but not for white people? No body is talking here about forming another chapter of the KKK or anything like that. They’re talking about organizations to purport the advancement of white society. What with the NAACP, Black Entertainment Television, the Miss Black America Pageant (BTW miss America this year is Black), American Negro College Funds etc ad nauseam, I fail to see why white people should not be allowed the same. How about a White History Month?

It seems to me Suzy, that you are an advocate of reverse discrimination.

“There is no denying the fact that white people have oppressed others since practically the beginning of time. Well maybe not that far back, but close enough.”

Name one culture that has not oppressed another. Just one. I challenge you on this.

African blacks have been oppressing each other since the dawn of time. Have you ever been to Africa? I have. You have tribes over there oppressing other tribes, nations oppressing nations etc. Congo, Zimbabwe, Somalia, the Moors invaded Europe and on and on.

Native American Indians were the same way with each other, and with the white man when he showed up on the seen. The only reason whites look like the bad guy is because they were more technologically advanced than the Indians, otherwise they’d have had the white man’s heads on pikes.

And you can’t blame the acts of the Nazis or the Brits or the KKK or any specific group on the entire white race. I could do the same with ANY race of YOUR choosing.


“Your history is one of oppression.”

Tell us all about YOUR history, Suzy. We’d all love to know about how your forefathers sat around all kissy-huggy and turning the other cheek, while living in pure bliss, peace and harmony with one another. I highly doubt it.

“Don't blame the messenger if you hadn't realized that before. Oppressors probably wasn't the best word I could have used, but I couldn't think of a better one to illustrate the racial dynamics between white people and everyone else.”

Yeah, everyone else. What a laugh. Who exactly are these “other” peace-loving races you speak of Suzy?

BTW, the bottom line on this issue is that white people in America do in fact have the right to assemble peaceably in groups if they so choose. It’s guaranteed in the Constitution of the USA, and it doesn’t preclude a racial basis. White people can have an exclusively private club, based solely upon race, and there is little anyone can do except pout and stomp their feet. It’s perfectly legal, and your opinion means very little.

Such is life.

maybe a change in name from "white" club to "european-american" club might be more palatable to some. Discussions related to various cultures, traditions, languages within the "white-Euro" community could be worthy of diversity of membership and purpose.

While there may be disagreement as to the morality of a "white club" I wonder as to the constitutionality of this girl starting her particular club. wouldn't that fall under her right to "free speech?"

I've typed out a response, twice, to this topic... and each time I would end up accidentally pressing just the right combination of keys to take me back to the previous page, erasing all I had written. So I'm trying it again... third time's the charm. ::cracks knuckles::
smash, your likening of minorities gaining a voice to stealing all of your belongings shows me how threatened you are by minorities, and how fearful you are of any culture other than your own. You yourself implied that you would only be content if white people remain the majority, in control of everything, forever - "white people sitting by idly while minorities take over everything " - like it belonged to white people to begin with?! White people were not the first people on America, they have no more rights to America than any other American citizen! Ever hear of the Native Americans? Talk about taking over everything in the country and pilfering all of someone's belongings, sheesh...
And I fail to understand why a club would be needed to "purport the advancement of white society" when they already control mostly everything in America, if not the world! What advancements could possibly be made for them?! Unless of course, as I fear may be the case, by "advancement of white society" you mean by the eradication of any cultures and that culture's influence other than whites'. You've already made it abundantly clear that you're completely unwilling to interact with, much less accept any influence of any culture other than your own. No doubt you have confused "white culture" with "american culture."
BET is still needed because of people like yourself. If a network showed rap videos right after you finished ogling Scarborough County, you would be filled with rage. Heaven forbid a commercial in spanish air during your viewing. You and people like you would not be willing to accept complete culture integration in all areas of life, and hence the need for channels like BET and the spanish channel - I dunno the name.
The Miss Black America Pageant is needed because the standard of beauty in America are all based on mainly European features. Light eyes, long flowing silky hair, narrow nose, skinny frame. African features are not viewed as attractive by American society, hell most countries in the world want to adhere to the european standard of beauty - asian women getting their eyes surgically altered to look more european, blacks' use of contacts and weaves and the jealousy towards lighter skinned/more white looking black people. I dare you to go find a white person in America, any white person, who thinks Alex Wek is more beautiful than Rebecca Romaijin-Stamos.
American Negro College Funds... first off, there's no such association. A close fit would be the United Negro College Fund. Second, it in no way discriminates against whites. Checkitout:
United Negro College Fund Website
A few select quotes:
"The United Negro College Fund awards scholarships to undergraduate and graduate students attending a UNCF member college or university as well as to those students attending other historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) and majority institutions."
You probably didn't know this, but it is illegal to forbid an entire group of people from attending a college solely based on their race. White people are perfectly able to attend a historically black college if they so chose. As a matter of fact, I know they can because I lived in Atlanta and knew of a white girl who goes to Spelman.
So: White people can attend historically black colleges = white people are eligible for the United Negro College Fund.
It is pretty well known that white history is taught 9 out of 9 school months. Just because February is Black History Month doesn't mean the teachers are forbidden from ever discussing a white person in history class. It just means they focus particularly on the African/African-American aspect of history.
It seems that I am an advocate of reverse discrimination, eh? Yeah, that must be why I specifically stated earlier in this thread that I personally don't agree with affrimative action...
I never said anywhere that white people were the only people who've ever oppressed anyone, but in America... yeah. My problem is that when I dared to bring up that fact, certain people were very quick to say "nah-uh!" Because their race is perfect. So I was forced to provide examples. And anyways, that wasn't even addressed to you, it was addressed to Hugo in a separate side debate about the history of the perfect, do-gooder, boy scout europeans.
If you honestly believe advanced technology the only reason white people look bad in regard to the Native Americans, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. So the millions and millions of Native Americans killed, purposely and through disease, that's all a load of bull. Who in their right mind would be upset about the europeans taking over land that didn't belong to them, and displacing, killing, and raping the people on it? Oh, and the Trail of Tears? Never happened.
I'm not blaming the actions of the Nazis or KKK or any of those groups on the entire white race... but I'm certainly not going to think that it's sheer coincidence that all those people happen to be white.
And I never claimed that my ancestors lived in pure bliss, peace, and harmony with one another. Unlike some people on this thread, I can accept that my race has faults and has done bad things, even if it was only to each other. You and Hugo seem to be adverse to admitting any faults in white people and their ancestors.

You want the bottom line, smashtheleft? The bottom line is that the UNCF is not tax supported, and doesn't affect you at all. Neither does the Black American Beauty Pageant. Neither does BET. None of these things has any bearing, direct or indirect, on you. Not even the spanish option on teller machines affects you in any way. It doesn't mean that you can't still carry on your transactions in english. You just don't want minorities having anything at all that recognizes their differences because you are intimidated by these differences. All these things are legal and they can continue to exist if the people who support them so choose. I never said anywhere that the Caucasian Club had no right to exist. I said that I think it's unnecessary and foolish.

... c'est la vie.

Suzy,
This is a little High school club that will probably never amount to any thing. So what is a bunch of "white" kids want to have a club. This is America. Freedom no where else in the world like we have.
I can't understand why you feel so threatened by a "White" (High School) club. Geez they are not trying to take over the world. They just want a club like any other ethnic club.
I think you need to lighten up a bit. Let it fly. If the club and I don't think it will gets out of hand of course it will be stopped, This is a High school!!!

[COLOR=blue]I have a problem with all racially or ethnically separated clubs and organizations. My first concern is to find out what being Caucasian means. The mere word Caucasian includes European to Indian cultures. There are too many ethnicities included into the Caucasian term to create a club meant for "white" people. If this person that wants to create this club is doing so because she feels left out, then why does she not opt for an Austrian, Indian, French, or whatever heritage she traces in her family, instead of creating a club that excludes an unspecified number of people. I simply think that these clubs create more tension where tension already exists. Public schools should not allow any clubs that are meant to give preference one people over another.[COLOR=blue]

Mom, I don't feel "threatened" in any way, shape, or form by this club. I have never advocated not allowing it to exist. I have never said that it didn't have any right to exist. I just don't like it because I feel there is no valid reason for it to exist. It's that simple. It's an opinion. Fear has nothing to do with it.

I also think the term "Caucasian" is to broad. After moving from the deep south, where everything was black, white, asian, hispanic & other, I moved to the north east. Here they break Caucasian down to Irish, Polish, Russian..... and whatever suits you mood. I would rather see clubs based on interests rather then sitting around debating about skin color. It also promotes that "click" mentality which add stress to our students.

Which is of course the real purpose of the club.
Minorities have a group identity that has been thrust on them by the majority, now the majority sees minorities have something they don't and they're whining about it.
The club should be allowed, but it the whining is truly pathetic.

SC-1,



Everyone's forgetting the scandinavians! Oh man, where's my Viking helmet and axe?

I still think such a club would be a good idea. Already it's got us thinking about what the heck does it mean to be white, Caucasian, or dare I say Honky?

You know, as in Honky Tonk road house with great music and greasy food? We've got one of those in town and if the food doesn't get yah, the cheap whiskey will

And what about "Crackers"? What's up with that? There are others like "Trailer Trash," "Cheap White Trash," and my favorite from the hometown, the "Finlanders."

Finlanders? Hey, you had to be there.

So why, even within the same race (however defined), is there derogetory name calling for some members? Does this happen within other racial groups?

I'd imagine. Yet another good topic for students to discuss/debate.

Edited to add: Maybe this would revolve into current events and why everyone in the ME seems to hate Kurds.

AMusician,

good points!!!!

And very true as there are lots of disagreement within the "white" community as to who is "whiter". To take the girl herself, she is part hispanic and native american so clearly NOT "anglo" as "they' say out here in SoCal. Stupid yes, but certainly an issue. Just ask an Italian if he/she is "white", they'll say of course they are yet many consider Italians NOT to be white. So this IS an issue that affects the cauc community and just ONE more thing worthy of discussion.

There is also plenty of discrimination in the black community based on "lightness" of one's skin. Are lighter-skinned black women preferred by Black men? By the entertainment industry and so on?

Plenty of areas worthy of discussion in ALL communities. I think the NAACP move against this girl's club was based on silly paranoia and prejudice. imo....

Obviously someone thinks there is a good reason, or the topic wouldn't be brought up! As for being oppressors, I am so sick of hearing this. I understand that this (and many other) countries have a long history of those in power oppressing others. But, I feel this country has made huge strides in the last 50 years towards leveling the playing field.

By trying to ban this club, the NAACP is oppressing those who would like to join it!

I am all for anybody bettering themselves, and if creating this club can help some kids through a difficult time, then good for them. I would watch it closely to make sure that racist propaganda was not being spewed, but ANY school club should have checks in place to assure this, not just a caucasian club.

As for

WHAT?!? Every group of people in this world has issues and problems they must face. And who the h*ll are you to judge what is a good problem? I'm pretty sure that there was no pressing reason to start a chess club other than there were kids who wanted one!

Why does everyone keep using the word Caucaisian?

For the last time, I don't support banning this freakin club, so would everyone please quit responding to me as if I said I did? It would be much appreciated. I support its right to exist, but I don't believe there is any valid reason for it to exist.
You being so sick of hearing about white people being the oppressors doesn't change the fact. Don't blame the messenger.
This girl's "good reason" for this club was that "they have one, so I want one too." I don't think that's a good reason at all.
Yes, this country has changed significantly in regards to race. The playing field still has a significant way to go before being completely even. Think: schooling in inner-city neighborhoods.
The name of this group would be the "Caucasian Club." This indicates that it is a club about white people, simply for the fact that they are white. There is no good reason to start this club, other than there is an childish girl who wants one because other races have one too. Other racial clubs have started because they have specific issues regarding their race that no one could really understand. The only specific issue white people could have regarding their race is reverse discrimination, and so I believe the club would turn into a weekly session of complaining about affirmative action. I've asked others to come up with any other problems specifically facing the white community, and so far no one has come up with any. Maybe "we aren't powerful enough"? They need no club to learn about their history, it is taught every month of school from elementary to high. If this girl were so interested in learning about her heritage, it would make a lot more sense to form an Italian Club, or a Greek Club, or whatever her background consists of. At my high school, there's a Spanish Club.
Kids who start a chess club start it because of a mutual love for chess. If every group of people in the world has issues and problems they must face solely based on their race, then I ask you for three that explicitly face the white community.
I can judge what a good problem is because in America, I am free to have my own opinion, no matter how much you may wish I didn't. My opinion is that there are no good problems facing the white community, or for a better word, no significant problems facing them.
The people starting the chess club are doing so because of their mutual love of chess. There's not a "black chess club" and an "asian chess club," the clubs are not based on their race. I've already explained why minorities start their own clubs, and have yet to hear a good reason for a "caucasian club."

I hope this isn't seen as a personal attack (but how can you attack someone who's been banned and run off the site), but I wonder why little trolls like Smash the Left bother with places like America's Debate.

People like him aren't interested in dialogue. They just want to demagogue and spew venom and bile against anyone who doesn't fit into their narrow and myopic worldview. In a democracy you have a right to hold and express your opinion, no matter how noxious it may be. But you also have a have a sense of responsibility for what you say (or type). A little civility and respect for the other guy's point of view would be nice too.

I don't think Smash the Left quite grasped that concept.

As to the notion of a "High School Caucasian Club" who cares? High school is the ultimate breeding ground for "joiners" and people who seek out each other to share their common joys or miseries. A club exclusive to white kids is not going to turn back the clock on civil rights. It just illustrates how sad and pathetic this little circle of outcasts and losers are. Let them cluster together and be sad and pathetic together.

The inability of some people to read a calendar and realize the world has changed doesn't mean we all have to be stuck in the past with them.

Well my friend and I have started the paperwork to establish the Caucasian American Student Union. We have a purpose for starting this club and it is to educate our community (which is almost 80% hispanic) about the American culture and values. The secondary reason for forming this club is to show the double standard that society has developed. Also out of the the 25+ students who signed up to be in the club, there are only 3 actual "white" kids. Everyone else is either black, asian, or hispanic. This is a club for everybody, it's a club to educate not hate(sorry for the cliche).