Full Version: Anti-Americanism
Like the author seems to say, demonizing America is pretty much a waste of time. Some think that America operates from some finely tuned self-interest. The evidence suggests this is often untrue. Look at our shoot ourself in the foot and bleed policy with Israel that has cost us over a trillion dollars directly or indirectly and the enmity and contempt of a good part of the world. As for our power, we got snookered by a bunch of fundi nuts with box cutters while the BA slept. Strong body as in military - weak mind or intelligence and stupid policies spells overall a weak and encumbered nation. And our enemies know it as they pick us off in Iraq, N. Korea tells us to get lost, France shakes its finger and laughs at us as we sink into quicksand and the Taliban makes its comeback.
This is not to say that we don't have incredible military and financial power and there is anyone to match us in that regard. It's just that without the wisdom that goes with it we may just fall on our own sword. In the meantime everyone else had better pay attention. We are just too big to ignore, but nevertheless unable to dictate the future.
I really like this article. It shows how we are simply the main player in a long ugly story and no better or worse than those who preceded us and will probably follow.
The key point for those who want positive change is for the most part to put aside moral denunciations and appeal to cold self-interest. Sort of like forget the Palestinians, look how were getting the shaft on this deal.
Beyond anti-Americanism
My question is when trying to affect change in the policy of a nation state, America in particular, is it useful to attempt a moral appeal or should one stick strictly to considerations of obvious self-interest?
This is not to say that we don't have incredible military and financial power and there is anyone to match us in that regard. It's just that without the wisdom that goes with it we may just fall on our own sword. In the meantime everyone else had better pay attention. We are just too big to ignore, but nevertheless unable to dictate the future.
I really like this article. It shows how we are simply the main player in a long ugly story and no better or worse than those who preceded us and will probably follow.
The key point for those who want positive change is for the most part to put aside moral denunciations and appeal to cold self-interest. Sort of like forget the Palestinians, look how were getting the shaft on this deal.
Beyond anti-Americanism
QUOTE
September 13, 2003
Anti-Americanism
Too Much of a Good Thing?
By MICHAEL NEUMANN
-------------------
The extent to which America is oblivious to its responsibilities is quite extraordinary. The overwhelming majority of Americans manage no contrition for the millions--yes, millions--their country slaughtered in Vietnam. Instead they wallow in a maudlin, falsely populist and deeply racist compassion for the terrible trauma 'our' soldiers endured while they killed. America likes to search its soul for wrongs done to fellow-citizens--Indians, blacks, Japanese-Americans--but not to those foreign victims who make cameo appearances as stick-figures in the self-pitying recitations of America's recent past.
----------------
The futility of anti-Americanism becomes apparent with the lightest consideration of history. World powers do not disappear to make way for a cozy community of nations; they make way for other world powers. (This may not be an eternal law, but it's a pattern that shows no sign of changing for quite some time.) All the primary states of Europe--England, France, Germany, Russia, Italy and Spain--have in their day displayed the very same mixture of gross ignorance, stupidity, sadism and placid racism that one finds in America today
----------------
America, for the foreseeable future, is the only game in town. Like all colonial powers, it is utterly immune to moral appeals until, like the British in India, it blunders off, leaving more agony in its departure than its arrival. This is not right; it is not just; it is everything leftists critics say it is, but so what? This is the world in which we must live.
-----------
If America will, more or less, do whatever it likes, then the only possible effective check to America's foolish and destructive policies lie in appeals to American self-interest. The notion that there is no such interest, or that American policies benefit only a ruling class, is so much posturing. Ordinary Americans benefit greatly from America's military and economic dominance, and will be harmed by its decline.
-----------------
When America policy becomes obviously, patently stupid--as in the case of Iraq--critics do not fail to point out how America defies its own interests. But even then, the case is diluted by moralizing and strained efforts to show that, after all, American interests are being served. If, for example, America is really going to get such a bonanza of oil wealth and strategic power out of Iraq, how can this be interpreted as anything but an encouragement to hang in there?
---------------------
The world can improve only if America changes from the inside, and it will change only on the impulse of self-interest. It doesn't matter if Americans seek wealth and power. What difference does that make? some dominant nation will always be doing this, always at great cost to others. What matters is when America increases this cost for no good reason, often against its own interests. That is something no American, no matter how selfish or insular, can welcome, so that is something that can be changed. Addressing such an audience requires no new facts, but a rearrangement of old ones
--------------
While the left is fond of talking about how America out to dominate the world, it isn't important that America has these bad intentions. What is important is that it can't realize them.
Anti-Americanism
Too Much of a Good Thing?
By MICHAEL NEUMANN
-------------------
The extent to which America is oblivious to its responsibilities is quite extraordinary. The overwhelming majority of Americans manage no contrition for the millions--yes, millions--their country slaughtered in Vietnam. Instead they wallow in a maudlin, falsely populist and deeply racist compassion for the terrible trauma 'our' soldiers endured while they killed. America likes to search its soul for wrongs done to fellow-citizens--Indians, blacks, Japanese-Americans--but not to those foreign victims who make cameo appearances as stick-figures in the self-pitying recitations of America's recent past.
----------------
The futility of anti-Americanism becomes apparent with the lightest consideration of history. World powers do not disappear to make way for a cozy community of nations; they make way for other world powers. (This may not be an eternal law, but it's a pattern that shows no sign of changing for quite some time.) All the primary states of Europe--England, France, Germany, Russia, Italy and Spain--have in their day displayed the very same mixture of gross ignorance, stupidity, sadism and placid racism that one finds in America today
----------------
America, for the foreseeable future, is the only game in town. Like all colonial powers, it is utterly immune to moral appeals until, like the British in India, it blunders off, leaving more agony in its departure than its arrival. This is not right; it is not just; it is everything leftists critics say it is, but so what? This is the world in which we must live.
-----------
If America will, more or less, do whatever it likes, then the only possible effective check to America's foolish and destructive policies lie in appeals to American self-interest. The notion that there is no such interest, or that American policies benefit only a ruling class, is so much posturing. Ordinary Americans benefit greatly from America's military and economic dominance, and will be harmed by its decline.
-----------------
When America policy becomes obviously, patently stupid--as in the case of Iraq--critics do not fail to point out how America defies its own interests. But even then, the case is diluted by moralizing and strained efforts to show that, after all, American interests are being served. If, for example, America is really going to get such a bonanza of oil wealth and strategic power out of Iraq, how can this be interpreted as anything but an encouragement to hang in there?
---------------------
The world can improve only if America changes from the inside, and it will change only on the impulse of self-interest. It doesn't matter if Americans seek wealth and power. What difference does that make? some dominant nation will always be doing this, always at great cost to others. What matters is when America increases this cost for no good reason, often against its own interests. That is something no American, no matter how selfish or insular, can welcome, so that is something that can be changed. Addressing such an audience requires no new facts, but a rearrangement of old ones
--------------
While the left is fond of talking about how America out to dominate the world, it isn't important that America has these bad intentions. What is important is that it can't realize them.
My question is when trying to affect change in the policy of a nation state, America in particular, is it useful to attempt a moral appeal or should one stick strictly to considerations of obvious self-interest?
More than anything else, change requires truth. The desire to tell it, and the ability to handle it. Finding the point where those two mesh is daunting. Iraq is the current example. We had critical reasons for this battle, but the clear and convincing evidence was still lacking. And would continue to be until some future attack. While Bush had the desire to tell the truth, the country didn't have the ability to handle it.
The terrorist-web in the Arab/Muslim world is so perverse that denying Saddam's role in it is pure denial. Much like Nazi Germany during Hitler's rise, there are signs, signals, indications and hints of what is to come. Ignoring them only serves to bring them to fruition.
We don't need to change our foreign policy. We need to explain it more openly and let Americans learn to handle it. This is the task that faces us. There is no choice between 'moral appeal' and 'self-interest'. They too are intertwined.
The biggest of the big pictures is this, desiring a world at peace. Every single step we take should be somewhere along that path. The most dangerous threats to that peace today are anti-zionism and Islamic fundamentalism. Neither of these leaves room for any form of peaceful co-existence. Therefore, they must both be challenged on every front, and eliminated.
There is ample 'moral appeal' as well as 'national self-interest' in this approach. What's lacking is the willingness of some to set aside their personal self-interest.
The terrorist-web in the Arab/Muslim world is so perverse that denying Saddam's role in it is pure denial. Much like Nazi Germany during Hitler's rise, there are signs, signals, indications and hints of what is to come. Ignoring them only serves to bring them to fruition.
We don't need to change our foreign policy. We need to explain it more openly and let Americans learn to handle it. This is the task that faces us. There is no choice between 'moral appeal' and 'self-interest'. They too are intertwined.
The biggest of the big pictures is this, desiring a world at peace. Every single step we take should be somewhere along that path. The most dangerous threats to that peace today are anti-zionism and Islamic fundamentalism. Neither of these leaves room for any form of peaceful co-existence. Therefore, they must both be challenged on every front, and eliminated.
There is ample 'moral appeal' as well as 'national self-interest' in this approach. What's lacking is the willingness of some to set aside their personal self-interest.
They whole issue in a way is self interest, of one group over another. Power shifts in the world, with that power, a nation controlling it they make choices that just don’t effect themselves.
You cant design something that puts you on top and call it peace, its rather simple, plus you have to factor in difference of culture and or individual in all of it.
Fanatics can be found everywhere, and their extreme views of the world never seem to bear any positive fruits, so what is the point in supporting any of them, it would be like shooting myself in a way.
America prides itself on the power it has, such states of mind can come with power, from the individual to the culture. What we do with it gives us the positive or negative view to people around the world. If we decide to support some people, then we make our enemies at that same token, that to is rather simple.
As for the Middle East, i know that hitting it with fire and brimstone is not going to make things better. There is a few million Muslims in that area, and for some they may not be the Islamic fundamentalists as other Muslims are, but ignorant policies and wars just might tip them in that direction.
America needs to use its power like a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. That would be the responsible use of power, unless we are willing to kill who knows how many innocents to achieve a relative goal in time, or a peace that will not last in time.
I guess its about making an image of America that is either center or positive, and trying to stay away from the negative at all costs. Thus this would have to reflect in our actions.
You cant design something that puts you on top and call it peace, its rather simple, plus you have to factor in difference of culture and or individual in all of it.
Fanatics can be found everywhere, and their extreme views of the world never seem to bear any positive fruits, so what is the point in supporting any of them, it would be like shooting myself in a way.
America prides itself on the power it has, such states of mind can come with power, from the individual to the culture. What we do with it gives us the positive or negative view to people around the world. If we decide to support some people, then we make our enemies at that same token, that to is rather simple.
As for the Middle East, i know that hitting it with fire and brimstone is not going to make things better. There is a few million Muslims in that area, and for some they may not be the Islamic fundamentalists as other Muslims are, but ignorant policies and wars just might tip them in that direction.
America needs to use its power like a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. That would be the responsible use of power, unless we are willing to kill who knows how many innocents to achieve a relative goal in time, or a peace that will not last in time.
I guess its about making an image of America that is either center or positive, and trying to stay away from the negative at all costs. Thus this would have to reflect in our actions.
We should not allow anyone who isn't American change American policy, it's our nation, we do what we think is the right thing to do, we should not shape our policies to please foreigners.
CP
CP
QUOTE
P51 - The most dangerous threats to that peace today are anti-zionism and Islamic fundamentalism.
At last count the cost to us of defending aggressive Zionism directly and indirectly was 1.6 trillion dollars and in the process we recruited many to millitant Islamic fundamentalism of the American hating variety.
Would you say that is in our interest and if so why?
QUOTE(Dingo @ Sep 23 2003, 08:37 PM)
QUOTE
P51 - The most dangerous threats to that peace today are anti-zionism and Islamic fundamentalism.
At last count the cost to us of defending aggressive Zionism directly and indirectly was 1.6 trillion dollars and in the process we recruited many to millitant Islamic fundamentalism of the American hating variety.
Would you say that is in our interest and if so why?
It's not the support of Zionism, it's the fight against anti-Zionist terrorism. The Palestinians do not seek land. They've rejected, violently, every offer of land for peace. Elimination of Israel, of the Jews specifically, is at the very heart of that conflict. As is the elimination of the infidels at the heart of islamist fundamentalism. Neither case allows for the peaceful co-existence with any other religion. And the fight is carried out by specifically targeting innocent civilians.
Anti-Americanism is fostered by those who fail to grasp the evil in the world. We would like nothing more than to be left alone to enjoy our freedoms. But there are forces that won't permit that. We're not thrilled when we hear those anti-American voices coming from foreign lands, but we're appalled when they eminate from within our own borders.
This is a simplified version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.