Does anyone notice the similarities of these bills?

USA: USA Patriot Act, US Victory Act
and
Germany(Hitler years): Notverordnung, Emergency Decree

personally if this "holy war" is about attacking our "freedom", then wouldn't these bills be "terrorist attacks". And this "war on terrorism", shouldn't they be fighting these kinds of bills.

Why are they making concentration camps for US?

Who's the terrorist here? According to the "USA Patriot Act", any person breaking a federal/state law(That includes the UN) that endangers someones life. That includes J-walkers.


What are your views on this administration carrying on the "collectivist" ideologies of the last administration? Its as if they want us to have no rights.

Instead of linking to a military police manual, could you provide some proof that the government is actually constructing concentration camps for citizens?
I often heard this conspiracy theory before and have never been offered proof of it when I've asked.

AMERICAN CONCENTRATION CAMPS

FEMA and the REX-84 Program (Readiness Exercise 1984)

FEMA AND THE REX 84 PROGRAM

not necessarily proof the are for americans (as those are conspiracy websites, and you should always be at least a bit skeptical of them) but definatly proof the exsist. the manual wm009 linked to and the fact thes camps exist is a bit worrying to me though.

wm009:

yes, I too notice many similarities.



actually, you're a bit off. it says that any act that appears to attempt to influence government policy that violates that violates the laws of the states or federal law. this cuold include any number of things, from abortion clinic bombers, to anti-war protesters that march without a permit (since when did it become necessary to get a permit to exercise the first amendment?)



some of the people in power don't want us to have any rights. not all of them are bad though. the ones that worry me are the PNAC neo-cons.

Executive Orders:
# 10995--All communications media seized by the Federal Government.
# 10997--Seizure of all electrical power, fuels, including gasoline and minerals.
# 10998--Seizure of all food resources, farms and farm equipment.
# 10999--Seizure of all kinds of transportation, including your personal car, and control of all highways and seaports.
# 11000--Seizure of all civilians for work under Federal supervision.
# 11001--Federal takeover of all health, education and welfare.
# 11002--Postmaster General empowered to register every man, woman and child in the U.S.A.
# 11003--Seizure of all aircraft and airports by the Federal Government.
# 11004--Housing and Finance authority may shift population from one locality to another. Complete integration.
# 11005--Seizure of railroads, inland waterways, and storage facilities.
# 11051--The Director of the Office of Emergency Planning authorized to put Executive Orders into effect in "times of increased international tension or financial crisis". He is also to perform such additional functions as the President may direct.
# 11921: establish government control of all wages, salaries, credit, and money in U.S.
# .1219 (Signed by Bill Clinton on June 3rd., 1994) This E.O. brings all the above mentioned E.O.'s into one package so as to make them quicker and easier to implement.
# .13010 (New): This Executive order is entitled Critical Infrastructure Protection. It established a commission made up of members from Federal government departments and agencies, which will be granted dictatorial powers when an emergency is declared.

E. O. 11490 is a compilation of some 23 previous Executive Orders, signed by Nixon on Oct. 28, 1969, and outlining emergency functions which are to be performed by some 28 Executive Departments and Agencies whenever the President of the United States declares a national emergency.

Under the terms of E. O. 11490, the President can declare that a national emergency exists and the Executive Branch can:

-Take over all communications media
-Seize all sources of power
-Take charge of all food resources
-Control all highways and seaports
-Seize all railroads, inland waterways, airports, storage facilities
-Commandeer all civilians to work under federal supervision
-Control all activities relating to health, education, and welfare
-Shift any segment of the population from one locality to another
-Take over farms, ranches, timberized properties
-Regulate the amount of your own money you may withdraw from your bank, or savings and loan institution

All of this is documented in the Federal Register if you'd like to look it up.


Executive Order #11490 can be declared for no reason if you go read it from the Federal Register.

Operation Garden Plot (Obtained from Freedom of Information Act June 1 1984)

Under this plan for the deployment of Operation Garden Plot, the use of CIDCON-1 will be mandatory. This direct support of civil disturbance control operations is to be used by the Army, USAF, Navy, and Marine Corp. with an airlift force to be comprised of MAC Organic Airlift Resources, airlift capable aircraft of all other USAF major commands, and all other aerial reconnaissance and Airborne Psychological Operations. This is to include control communications systems, aeromedical evacuation, helicopter and Weather Support Systems.

If any civil disturbance by a resistance group, religious organization, or other persons considered to be non-conformist takes place, under Appendix 3 to Annex B of Plan 55-2 hereby gives all Federal forces total power over the situation if local and state authorities cannot put down said dissenters.

Annex A, section B of Operation Garden Plot defines tax protesters, militia groups, religious cults, and general anti-government dissenters as Disruptive Elements. This calls for the deadly force to be used against any extremist or dissident perpetrating any and all forms of civil disorder.

Under section D, a Presidential Executive Order will authorize and direct the Secretary of Defense to use the Armed Forces of the United States to restore order.

2 TAB A APPENDIX 1 TO ANNEX S USAF CIVIL DISTURBANCE PLAN 55-2 EXHIBIT POR:SGH, JCS Pub 6, Vol 5, AFR 160-5 hereby provides for America's military and the National Guard State Partnership Program to join with United Nations personal in said operations. This links selected U.S. National Guard units with the Defense Ministries of "Partnership For Peace." This was done in an effort to provide military support to civil authorities in response to civil emergencies.

Under Presidential Decision Directive No. 25, this program serves to cement people to relationships between the citizens of the United States, and the global military of the UN establishments of the emerging democracies of Central and Eastern European countries. This puts all of our National Guardsmen under the direct jurisdiction of the United Nations.

Section 3:
This plan could be implemented under any of the following situation:

(1) Spontaneous civil disturbances which involve large numbers of persons and/or which continue for a considerable period of time, may exceed the capacity of local civil law enforcement agencies to suppress. Although this type of activity can arise without warning as a result of sudden, unanticipated popular unrest (past riots), it may also result from more prolonged dissidence.

This would most likely be an outgrowth of serious social, political or economic issues which divide segments of the American population. Such factionalism could manifest itself through repeated demonstrations, protest marches and other forms of legitimate opposition but which would have the potential for erupting into spontaneous violence with little or no warning.

(2) Planned acts of violence or civil disobedience which, through arising from the same causes as (1) above, are seized upon by a dedicated group of dissidents who plan and incite purposeful acts designed to disrupt social order.

This may occur either because leaders of protest organizations intentionally induce their followers to perpetrate violent acts, or because a group of militants infiltrates an otherwise peaceful protest and seeks to divert it from its peaceful course.

Subsection C: (2) Environmental satellite products will be continue to be available. (d) Responsibilities. Meteorological support to civil disturbance operations will be arranged or provided by AWS wings.

The 7th. Weather Wing (7WW) is responsible for providing / arranging support for Military Airlift Command (MAC) airlift operations. The 5th Weather Wing (5WW) is responsible for supporting the United States Army Forces Command.

(3) SITUATION. Civil disturbance may threaten or erupt at any time in the CONUS and grow to such proportions as to require the use the Federal military forces to bring the situation under control.

A flexible weather support system is required under control. A flexible weather support system is required to support the many and varied options of this Plan.

ANNEX H: XXOW, AWSR 55-2, AWSR 23-6, AFR 23-31, AR 115-10, AFR 105-3.

Subsection B:

Concept of Environmental Support. Environmental support will be provided by elements of Air Weather Service (AWS) in accordance with refs a-f. The senior staff meteorologist deployed int the Task Force Headquarters (TFH) will be the staff weather officer (SWO) to the TFH.

Centralized environmental support products are requested in accordance with AWSR 105-18. (4) Weather support is provided by weather units located at existing CONUS bases or by deployed SWOs and / or weather teams to the objective areas.

(5) Support MAC source will be provide in accordance with the procedures in MARC 103-15. MAC forces will be provided in accordance with the procedures in AFR 105-3.

(a) Air Force Global Weather Central: Provides centralized products as requested.

REFERENCES : JCS Pub 18 - Doctrine for Operations Security AFR 55-30, Operations Security

1. GENERAL Opposition forces or groups may attempt to gain knowledge of this plan and 'use that knowledge to prevent or degrade the effectiveness of the actions outlined in this plan. In order to protect operations undertaken to accomplish the mission, it is necessary to control sources of information that can be exploited by those opposition forces or groups.

OPSEC is the effort to protect operations by identifying and controlling intelligence indicators susceptible to exploitation. The objective of OPSEC, in the execution of this plan, is to assure the security of operations, mission effectiveness, and increase the probability of mission success.

2. RESPONSIBILITY FOR OPERATIONS SECURITY (OPSEC):

The denial of information to an enemy is inherently a command responsibility. However, since the operations Officer at any level of command is responsible to his commander for the Overall planning and execution of operations, he has the principal staff interest in assuring maximum protection of the operation and must assume primary responsibility instibility for ensuring that the efforts of all other staff elements are coordinated toward this
end. However, every other individual associated with, or aware of, the operation must assist in safeguarding the security of the operation.

3. OBJECTIVES:

a. The basic objective of OPSEC is to preserve the security of friendly forces and thereby to enhance the probability of successful mission accomplishment. "Security" in this context relates to the protection of friendly forces. It also includes the protection of operational information to prevent degradation of mission effectiveness through the disclosure of prior knowledge of friendly operations to the opposition.

b. OPSEC pervades the entire planning process and must be a matter of continuing concern from the conception of an operation, throughout the preparatory and execution phases, and during critiques, reports, press releases, and the like conducted during the post operation phase.

4. Specific operations orders and standard operating procedures "MUST be developed with the awareness that the opposition may be able to identify and exploit vulnerable activities.

Released under Freedom of Information Act on March 30th, 1990. All material presented here has been declassified and supersedes USAD Operations Plan 355-10 of July 16, 1973. Information released by USAF under supervision of Alexander K. Davidson, BRIG. GEN, USAF, Dep. Director of Operations.

APPENDEX 5 TO ANNEX E TO USAF CIVIL DISTURBANCE PLAN 55-2 Annex Z. Other References: 10 United States Codes 331,332,333,8500,1385, MARC 105-1, MARC 105-18, AR 115-10, AFR 105-3, PDD-25.




USA PATRIOT ACT 2001
SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

(a) Domestic Terrorism Defined.--Section 2331 of title 18,
United States Code, is amended--
(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking ``by
assassination or kidnapping'' and inserting ``by mass
destruction, assassination, or kidnapping'';
(2) in paragraph (3), by striking ``and'';
(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and
inserting ``; and''; and
(4) by adding at the end the following:
``(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--
``(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a
violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any
State;
``(B) appear to be intended--
``(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
``(ii) to influence the policy of a government by
intimidation or coercion; or
``(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass
destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

I still see nothing in any of the posts to convince that the US government is building Concentration Camps.

WM,

where is the LINK to your post on executive orders. I'd like to see that. thanks

You have to go to your Federal Register in person. Online only has an archive back to 94'.
Federal Register

In my opinion, the United States Military would never follow the orders to put United States citizens in concentration camps, the United States people would do the same thing our ancestors did if that ever happened. Everyone has the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, and to secure those rights and others are the main reasons why Governments are formed and institued and that whenever a Government ever becomes destructive of those rights, it is the right of the people to alter the government or abolish it, and institute a new government. If you haven't noticed, alot of that is taken from the Declaration of Independence. I cited the Declaration of Independence because I feel those values will still be held up over 200 years after it was originally written, because I think the same standards are applied in today's society except they are more complex and less basic. I also believe that the concentration camps would never happen [in the US] because what would the point of the camps be? I'm trying to ask, what would the government gain by puting citizens into these concentration camps? It's not like hitler and the jews. And it's a different scenerio then when the US put the Japanese into the Internment camps. The internment camps are completely different than concentration camps, because the internment camps were used to just hold prisoners or citizens for a period of time. During WWII when the Japanese Americans were sent to the internment camps, they lost everything. Even though the United states govenment could never take back what they did the the Japanese Americans, the JACL (Japanese American Citizens Leauge) pushed the government to try and compensate those who were sent into the camps for their lost property and grievances. In 1965 congress finally authorized the spending of 38 Million for that perpose. Even though that was not as much as the citizens actually lost, it still helped. Then Ten years later Congress finally gave $20,000 to every Japanese American sent to a relocation camp durin that war and also each check was accompanied by George Bush, yes that's right, our presidents father. Concentration camps are used to eliminate people eg. Gas chambers in WWII. The only other concentration camps I can recall are the one's used in Cuba where about 300,000 people filled those camps, but that's another story. I do not believe the concentration camps in the US are real and I think, and hope that you feel the same way. I know WM from another site and we usually disagree on alot of things, but this disagreement i feel strongly about.

That dude was right. Your just posting police manuals....If they were going to build a "concentration camp" for Us american citizens...then why tell us? You please give me that explanations, first.

Also, what would the US do? EG: Go only after italian people and put them into these concentration camps? Or just the whole american general population?

That's the same way I feel. Why would the US even build concentration camps, then let everyone know about them? I mean, Bush and the current administration are idiots in my opinion for some of the things they've done, but I really don't think the government is that stupid. I'm wondering aswell who these camps are suposedly for also.

Edit that, the bush adminstration had only 1 flaw, not even many. It's a great administration in my opionion, Bush has my Vote, Not Hillary.

Jimbo - do not derail this thread with your off-topic one-liner.

Please continue to debate:

If there was a "biological" attack, don't you think the people would like to be sent off to concentration camps to be "safe" from the terrorists. There was recent news about this in London.

"You can't trust freedom when it's not in your hands."

You know, things can change very quickly. In a game of chess, you attack when you're strategically ready.
Why would the make these executive orders? Just for a rainy day?


I agree. That's why I am against the USA Patriot Act and Victory Act. They completely destroy the bill of rights beyond the point of the horrifying Clinton years.


Well, magalomaniacs comes to mind. Why did Hitler kill millions of Jews? Why did Stalin' kill millions of people? I don't know, but they did it. Why is this so unbelievable when its written in law?


Control, power, religion. There's millions of different reasons.

"Kill a man and you are a murder. Kill a million men and you are a conquerer. Kill all men and you are god."
People are sick. People are greedy. People like to control. People like to oppress. Human nature. We kill eachother.


So throwing 4th generation American citizens in camps is legit? You know, First amendment didn't apply to them.


False. Concentration camps are camps of concentrated amounts of people. IE a city of people into a concentrated camp.


I've seen them. It's not like they're exclusive to the US. I've seen them just outside of Halifax, Nova Scotia.


I think you guys don't understand how its going to come into effect. There will be a terrorist attack and with all the propaganda you see on tv, you'll be running for the camps. And that's the difference. Its all psycological. You'll be beggin' to goto the camps. "Save me from the terrorists and their biological weapons. Take me to a freedom camp."

Playmaker, Be a patriot. Read the USA Patriot Act.

Here's my definition when I think of concentration camps.



I got that Definition on this site, http://www.candles-museum.com/camps.htm

I realize that isn't the same definition as the one's in dictionary's. But that definition is what I typically think of when the term concentration camps is used.


because he felt that the Jews were the group of people to blame for all of lifes problems, Hitler thought No Jews= No Problems. He blamed the Jews for everything.



I don't know why either.




I believe that if there is ever a biological or chemical attack in a large scale (15,000 - 1,000,000 in my opinion)on the United States or other country's it will lead to the end of the world.

I agree with it.



When the state takes the rights of the people and constantly oppresses them, they start to get mad and want to rebel, so all Stalin could do was continue to oppress more and more.

Power can only be held by silencing the opposition and filling them sheep with your propaganda.


Well, I'm pretty sure there won't be one. Now they'll say it though. Its not like you can see it. CNN will fill you so full of fear you'll want the glorous government to protect you.

Remember Emanuel Goldstein in "Nineteen Eighty-Four".
"He'll[Goldstein] never die." - O'Brian

Bin laden won't die. He'll always be there. There will always be a video popping up on CNN. He'll always exist, just to justify this tyranny. This rape of our rights.

you mean a large-scale attack?

They'll tell you there was a wide scale biological attack by "Al Qaida". That doesn't mean it happens. All they have to do is fill you full of fear, then human brain stops thinking, panic comes. Minds shift into mindless group thinking[Lemmings]

CNN, ABC, NBC, FOX, BBC, They all will lie to us? Is that what you're saying? I don't think they would be able to pull off a stunt like that. The American people would NOT allow that to happen. There are alot of people in High places that would stop it before it got to the public, there is no way there could ever be a conspiracy on that big of a scale.

Number 1. They don't need to lie. The Administration can lie and they report.
Number 2. Executive Order # 10995--All communications media seized by the Federal Government.

socal, I refer ypu to these pages with PHOTOS of concentration camp type facilities (these are CLEARLY designed to keep people IN)

AMERICAN CONCENTRATION CAMPS

FEMA and the REX-84 Program (Readiness Exercise 1984) (what's up with that patch? US police? )

FEMA: REX-84 Program

PROOF these camps exist. I don't know for sure if these are meant for americans but given the executive orders, and the police manual WM linked to, I would say that this is bit worrying.

Now getting the impression that infact there are concentration camps within the us and canada...wm or anyone else. can you please inform me with the list of concentration camps that our around the buffalo, New york areas.

There should be a FEMA detention area in Buffalo. What you need to understand about these camps is they'll just be old military bases. The ones in Canada are by far more scary because there is so much federal land for them.

Okay. Then if FEMA does have a good amount of them located within the Ontario, Canada region, could you list me them please?

FEMA isn't Canadian.

OK. You made a good point. FEMA isnt canadian. Well what i see is your linking us to sites about FEMA Camps right? So why dont you link us to sites with canadian style, just like FEMA camps, Includeing the proper layouts, and maps.

After Sept 11, the Canadian Freedom of Information act was literly destroyed, so I can't dig up any documents on it for you.

I don't know how formiliar you are with Canadian politics, but the Liberals can dictate as they please.

Wait a min. Found a nice peice of legislation.
BILL C-11
Division Six Detention and Release



This is a citizen entering the country. I'll try to track down some more.

Seems all the good documents will cost me money because of the freedom of information act. Freedom my *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. ***.

Anyway. Goto an abandoned military base. Take a look at the fences. You'll notice the bardwire is in a way to keep people in. Also there's watch towers about every 50-100 feet on the perimeter. Sometimes you'll see military personnal on these "abandoned" bases.

The pictures I saw with the link you provided make me think of an old military training facility. In a concentration camp, you have barracks for prisoners, showers and everything needed to host (ahem) prisoners basically. The pictures I saw look nothing like that. The 'evidence' you refer to looks fabricated.

However, I would definitely agree that the American army has a detention camp in Guantanamo!

Please goto your federal register and read the executive orders. Please.

I'm sorry, but we French have no such thing as a 'federal register' here. I don't have a slightest clue what you're talking about, man!