I stopped watching ESPN's Sunday NFL pre-game show because I find Rush Limbaugh unbearable even in small dosages. Then again, I also find Michael Irvin's presence on the show to be headache inducing.

Well, if Limbaugh was brought on the show to interject a bit of controversy, I can now declare: Mission accomplished!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...h_quarterback_2

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/6894891.htm

Look, I don't really give a rat's patoot what Rush thinks about Donovan McNabb or any other football player. I think he's a jerk that is playing on McNabb's race just to stir up controversy and since the ratings of the show have gone up I'd say he's earning his paycheck.

But I think Limbaugh is a vulgar boor with vulgar opinions who is pimping on race to jack up a TV show's ratings. It's disgusting and divisive. When I watch football I don't pull for the team with the most black players or the most white players. I just want to see the team I'm pulling for win and race doesn't factor into it.

I think Rush is playing the race card unnecessarily. What do you think?

I don't understand what was racist about what he said. Certainly many will disagree with what he stated, but how does disagreeing make it racist?
He simply stated his opinion that McNabb was overhyped by the media at a time when many desired to see more black coaches and quarterbacks in the NFL. Rush stated that he didn't believe that McNabb's performance lived up to that hype.
Obviously if you hate the speaker, you will find more wrong with the speech. But if you look objectively, what was wrong with what he said?

I agree with you. He simply stated that he thought McNabb was overrated and the reason he thought he was. It is conceivable that people perhaps put more hope on him because there are so few black quarterbacks doing well in the NFL. What is racist about stating that people really wanted him to do well? I really do not think it was a racist comment. It seems people are way too eager to jump on the "racist" bandwagon these days.
Anyway, being from Nashville it does not matter to me, since we have Steve McNair, McNabb is not really an issue.

I actually find those words to be completely irritating. And I have to say two games does not decide a career.

Can anybody tell me why A political commentator would even come close to making a good sports commentator. Let alone someone who is bigoted... I think many sports teams and leagues have come a long way to deter this attitude.

Monty

Well being McNabb has a multi million dollar contract and has been to three pro bowls, i would say that the mans remarks are unfounded, no player plays perfectly though his career, lets see him harp on Payton manning for a bit, over rated players are found by all who are interested and don’t go to the pro bowl or take teams to playoffs. More or less i feel this just all relates to some version of being power drunk by the Republican Party, in particular the neo-cons, something McCain was against and why i respect him even if his is a repub. This is just another incident of such behavior.

I actually think McNabb is pretty good, so that is not an issue. That being said, I have listened to Rush on occasion and he is actually quite knowledgeable about the NFL. I also do not think he is a bigot, I just think he is used to saying whatever he wants on his radio show, but he has to watch what he says more on TV.
Hey, maybe Karl Rove told him to say it.

As I see it, Rush is coming from a world where you can make inflammatory statements like that, and it is ok. "The left is killing america", "The left wants to tax us and give it to the poor", etc., etc. But, when he crossed over into the world of sports that same technique doesn't work. Anyone that has played football in the past knows that it is all about performance on the field and that is why Berman, Jackson, and the rest of the ESPN analysts rip people of any color. Kurt Warner(white) was ripped to shreds after the first game, Tony Dungy(black coach) has always been labled a failure because he can't win big games.

Sports has somewhat trancended the race barrier to where you are scrutinized because of your performance and not color. Vick, McNabb, McNair, K. Stewert, and all the other black quarterbacks are praised when they do good and ripped for weeks when they mess up.

But, Rush thinks that "the media" overhypes McNabb because he is black even though he has been to 3 pro bowls, 2 straight NFC championship games, and no one else of any talent on his offense. He is just showing his misguided, racist views, and he is highly unqualified to be an analyst for the NFL and probably even high school JV football.

EDIT
(Sorry if I "piggy-backed" on other comments but I have waited all day to say something about this since I have heard his comments)

I never said Rush Limbaugh was a racist or made any racist remarks. I can't look into the man's heart and soul to make that determination. What I did say was he played the race card and I do think that is so.

"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well," Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

Nobody is saying Rush can't say Donovan McNabb is overrated. From his performance in the first three games the Eagles have played, that might be a fair assessment.

But what does McNabb's race have to do with this? Why is it relevant?

I thought it was the conservatives like Limbaugh that are always telling black folks to "get over it" when it comes to race issues. If that's the case why can't McNabb just be a quarterback who's playing lousy and not a black quarterback who's playing lousy? McNabb knows he hasn't been very good lately. Should he say, "Well, I'm a black quarterback so I can't be expected to do as well as the white guys, right?"

Limbaugh pushes buttons. That's what he does. That's his schtick. But Rich Gannon, Jeff Garcia, Vinny Testaverde, Drew Brees and Kurt Warner have stunk up the joint too with their lousy performances as NFL quarterbacks.

But Limbaugh isn't picking on them or calling them "overrated." Wonder why that is?

Kordell Stewart must be quaking in his boots.

But, every other sports analyst has. That is why he needs to stick to his radio program.

Speaking as someone who actually watched the comments when they happened, let me say that situation came up because someone (Berman, I think) asked the question as to why McNabb wasn't performing so well this year. Everyone gave some type of answer, Rush rang in with his "challenge". He then stated that he didn't think McNabb was very good from the beginning and then continued on to why he felt McNabb was "over-hyped".

Rush has a right to comment on football. The race issue, although probably inappropriate for that particular viewing audience, was a side note. They were an explanation of Rush's view that the perception was wrong from the start, therefore the current results seem to be lacking.

The other announcers glossed over the race issue because it wasn't particularly relevant to the discussion.

Interestingly, I saw this same issue come up on CNN's "Headline News" at lunch today.

Personally, I agree with Rush, black quarterbacks do tend to get overrated, so does white heavyweight boxers. Neither group has been real successful when it comes to winning championships. I think the media tends to overhype both groups.

Other groups that get overhyped, white NBA players, and black golfers...er, scratch that last one, Tiger is so talented it is almost impossible to overhype him.

Name 3 black overrated quaterbacks that the media hypes. You have about 10 starting black quarterbacks to choose from a long list of backups

Rush "The Greek" Limbaugh?

Really, Rush has been trying to get a spot on any NFL related program for years. He made a heavy bid for the Monday night spot, but was (somehow) beat by Dennis Miller.

So, now he's on ESPN.

Someone above asked why Rush is there, and questioned his qualifications. Well, I'm willing to speculate that a key reason he is there is for the 10 Million + people who listen to his radio show. He mentions it every week, and that is free advertising (or at least included in Rush's salary).

As for his qualifications... do you need qualifications to comment on football? Seriously, football is a game. If playing football makes you an expert at playing football, watching football makes you an expert at watching football. We're not talking rocket science...

And as for Limbaugh's comments, I'm not too sure. Is McNabb overrated? Did the media give him undue credit? It surely wouldn't be beyond the media to distort the news to match public perception. Along the same lines, it surely isn't beyond Rush to say something controversial. In this case, I just don't know.

Mike

I could name three, but the term overhype or overrated is so subjective that when we start debating if Vick, McNair and McNabb are overrated, or overhyped, there is no real solid ground to start a debate on.

My opinion is "minorities", even white ones, in certain sports, or in certain positions in sports get overhyped. I think as more and more black quarterbacks are in the NFL the overhyping diminishes.

I though Larry Bird was overhyped. Was he a great player,Yes. Was he as good as Majic and Micheal, no.

The point is I can believe Larry Bird was overrated, because he was white, without being a racist.

Will anybody please tell me how Yao got more votes than Duncan and Shaq in the last NBA All-Star balloting?

I'd have to agree with Nighttimer here. Rush did play the race card, and I think he did it intentionally, just to stir up some controversy. That has to be why he's there in the first place, or at least part of the reason. I liked Mike Golic's sentiment on this (from this morning's Mike and Mike show), which basically was that the NFL was over this 'black quarterback' issue some years ago. Now, it's just 'quarterback'. And the media couldn't care either. Ask Cordell Stewart or Quincy Carter if the media has gone easy on them because they're black--I think they would just stare at you in wonderment.

As to the others on the show not immediately 'jumping' Rush on the statement--is this a good thing or a bad thing. I think it's good in the sense that they didn't see it as relevant, and so just stuck to the relevant issues. Which does tend to indicate, as I stated above, that we're past the whole 'black quarterback' thing. On the other hand, it's bad because the statement seems to be completely unfounded, is clearly inflammatory, has racial implications, and went unchallenged (at least on the show).

I guess this comes down to the point of why Race is such a big deal... why is it that there always has to be dividing lines between White and Black? Why even have those lines to begin with.

Any form of separation takes away from any comment. You can call any quarterback in the NFL over-hyped. But instead of just calling Donovan McNabb an over-hyped quarterback he had to put in a qualifier, In other words, the word "Black." It is at this point that he crossed the line and formed a separation between Donovan McNabb and other NFL Quarterbacks. So now instead of being compared to 32 Quarterbacks he is being compared to 10.

This is why separations are like mini-fences and all I have to say is, "Don't fence me in."

Monty

While I agree entirely that Rush Limbaugh is an *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** and a boor, he really didn't say anything out in left field. He has a right to his opinion, of course, and the fact is that McNabb is highly overhyped. Whether or not that's because of his skin color is anyone's guess, Rush can say his piece (and is being paid to do so) and you can say yours and the whole thing is subjective in the extreme.

"This is such a mountain out of a molehill. There's no racism here, there's no racist intent whatsoever."

"All this has become the tempest that it is because I must have been right about something. If I wasn't right there wouldn't be this cacophony of outrage that has sprung up in the sports writer community."

--- Rush Limbaugh

As to be expected Limbaugh thinks it's all about him.

Even I don't think this is about racism as much as it is about race-baiting. If Limbaugh was someone who disliked blacks I doubt he'd have Walter Williams sitting in his chair while he's on vacation. If he were a bigot instead of having Clarence Thomas administering the wedding vows at his last marriage, Thomas would have been serving drinks instead.

If Limbaugh goosed the ratings of ESPN's NFL pregame show by 10 percent before, what will he do for it now? 15 percent? 20 percent? More?

Yeah, Rush is great for the short-term bounce in ratings, but what has he done besides once again open up the wound of racial divisions and rub a little salt in it? If he had just dissed McNabb for stinking up the place, everyone would have just smiled and gone on to the next subject. Now here we are three days later and it's the front page story of USA TODAY and sports talk shows across the nation are buzzing about whether Rush Is Right or Not.

Not bad. It kind of sucks that it comes at digging up the decayed carcass of whether or not blacks can play quarterback at the NFL level, but hey that's show biz.

Whether or not Donovan McNabb ever becomes a Super Bowl winning quarterback isn't the issue. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl but nobody says he's a better QB than Dan Marino or Jim Kelly who never did.

Oh yeah...Doug Willams won a Super Bowl too.

Now if only Rush had picked Terrell Owens to slam. I dare say 95 percent of the posters on this board would agree T.O. is a first-class prima donna.

Rush's premise was wrong. The media no longer over-hypes black QBs. I don't think his comments were racist, they were outdated. His motive? Hard to say. He might not even have had one.

While Limbaugh may be very knowledgeable when it comes to football, he should stick to the political arena. The two areas will not mix well for anything other than short-term curiousity.

NT,

I'll have to admit, the more Rush talks about this, the less he seems to know what the heck he's talking about.



Or could it be that there is such an outcry precisely because what was said is so wrong? Is he suggested that if were to say something equally ludicrous, like, say, the Holocaust never happened, that no one would say anything?

I think on this one the other half of his brain also seems to be tied behind his back....and where are all the dittoheads? (Haven't heard his show since Sunday--was this issue discussed?)

Favorite Rush joke: What's the difference between Rush Limbaugh and God?

(God doesn't think he's Rush Limbaugh).

Update: Limbaugh steps down from 'NFL Sunday Countdown'

Rush is not normally the type to back away from anything, so my hunch is he was told resign or get canned. Quite a whirlwind.

I didn't get to see/hear the comment in context, but I'm pretty certain that ESPN's NFL pregame show is NOT the time or place to address something of this nature. I recall Terry Bradshaw and JB talking back and forth about black QBs and how they're always expected to be rushing QBs as opposed to passing QBs. That situation didn't bring politics into the picture and didn't make guesses about the WHYs of the situation - they presented facts with their arguments and that was that. I think if Rush had said "Black quarterbacks are being hyped by the NFL. Example: Donovan McNabb...here are the FACTS supporting this" it would have been VERY different. Whether he is right or not, IMO, isn't as important as whether he should have brought this up in the first place, but I don't think it HAD to be as big of a deal as it is (had he supported his "hypothesis" at all).

I guess I just don't want my NFL pregame show to be riddled with political undertones...I'll keep the football talk, thanks

Does it deserve firing? I don't think so. BUT, I'd be willing to bet that the sole purpose of putting Rush on the show in the first place was to reach a new audience/draw a new crowd and to get people to say "gee Rush is on ESPN, I wonder what he's going to say"...my best guess: ratings' increases weren't as high as they anticipated, there wasn't any reason for him to be there anymore, he said something controversial, so they said step down or you'll get canned.

Rush got canned? Yeah, he has a history of that in radio before his big break into the liberal-bashing industry.

What he said might not have been overtly racist. Doesn't matter. It was inappropriate for the venue.

If I were the producer, I'd have canned him too. I can hear the rant about that nasty media (hey, Rush, that's the hand feeding you) and its liberal bias! That's why the game was lost!

Anyway, sports is all about entertainment--not axes to grind. Football is about fake rivalries between teams, not individuals. And sports writers make horrible political commentators, and the reverse seems to be true as well.

Next issue: Why are there no conservatives in sports analysis? Gotcha! There are conservatives in sports analysis. They just know better than to blend politics with entertainment. So to reword, why are there no blowhards in sports analysis?

Doesn't sell.

Now, I have my own opinions about Rush. I have called him a racist, bigot, etc...which may or may not have been deserved. BUT, I think that this was going to get really out of hand with everyone latching onto this. I honestly feel that he at least should get a chance to respond to what he said on air and for the "NFL Countdown" folks to address this on air. Maybe even a one-on-one interview with Rush and McNabb.

I don't think he resigned but was asked to (something we will never know). But his "haters" where getting ready to pounce on this and I don't think this is the kind of publicity that ESPN (Owned by Disney) wants.

He wasn't going to apologize for his comments kdubdub, in fact, he found nothing wrong with them and had said so on his morning talk radio show. Rush is the type of man that does not believe he is capable of making mistakes. He is never wrong, never proven wrong, and does not listen to any other opinion but his own. He was wrong in this instance and he needed to be removed as in punishment.

As a conservative once told me, "You might have free speech, but it comes with heavy responsibility, now shut up and wave the flag."

Monty

He was given the opportunity (on Sportscenter), and declined to be interviewed.



Hey, how 'bout a 'ditto!' on that!

I see a trend in this thread of attacking the man and not the argument. IMO, the only reason this is news is because of the controversial nature of the commentator. Count how many inappropriate comments have been made by some on the opposite side of the spectrum as Rush, where has the outrage been?

It hasn't been there. As Rush has (rightly) stated time and time again, there IS a liberal bias by the media. Even if people were outraged by the inappropriate comments by people from the other end of the spectrum, you surely wouldn't hear it on the news.

But yes, the media have a liberal bias. Rush simply called them on yet another way in which it is painstakingly clear that this is true. Perhaps sports and politics have no common ground, but sports reporting, as with any opinion-based reporting, can be biased. As liberal politics is the stuff of sensationalistic, "make everybody feel good" policies, to criticize based on race is strictly taboo because it ruffles people's feathers. But, these are the people who think minorities deserve a boost in every other aspect of life, so why not sports as well?

The bottom line is Rush didn't make any racist comments, he simply opined that the media used the fact that Donovan McNabb was black as a reason to hype him up. To have a truly breakthrough black quarterback would be big for the NFL. Would Rush mind? NO! That wasn't what he was saying or criticizing. He was criticizing the media overhyping of McNabb. That's just not fair, number one, but when the hype isn't lived up to on top of it, somebody's gotta raise a stink about it sooner or later. In sports and in life, you should earn the respect and the privileges you receive, IMO. Apparently Rush feels that way too...

The part of all this that really bothers me is that fact that Sharpton and his cronies were going to get involved and boycott like it's Birmingham in the 60's or something. Thank God it didn't happen, but things like that don't help anybody, black or white. It just brings race-consciousness ever more into our society and perpetrates tension. In addition, it is an insult to all the progress that has been made since the times when boycotting was actually necessary.

Well, at last we have a conservative voice who has admitted to being biased against black athletes... Could this be the person who recommended to George W. Bush that he should trade Sammy Sosa to Chicago? (I've heard repeatedly, that was an early indication of Bush's decision making ability.)

I used to have co-workers who turned up the Rush Limbaugh show to full volume. I always felt that he was over-hyped (By Rush Limbaugh) and over-rated. (By Rush Limbaugh) I made a point of boycotting his sponsors at the time, and I have made a point of not listening to him since I retired.

I am glad that he resigned over this, because even as a non-sports fan; I would have wanted an address to write to ESPN and ask for his resignation.

(This posting consists solely of my opinions, and is not supported by any facts or serious effort at research. It is after all, merely a response to a statement of fact made by that famous "Voice of the Liberal Right," Rush Limbaugh. I have already demonstrated my ignorance in the past by not absorbing his every word as the true gospel, and Third Testament he has proclaimed it to be.)

On the Dan Patrick show (ESPN radio) Rush was asked to repond but he was not allowed on by the ESPN management. I think that they probably would not let him go on Sportscenter if they wouldn't let him go on the radio.



I see you have been following football the last few seasons . But, the idea that the liberal media is overhyping Donovan McNabb makes no sense at all. So, the nfl sports writers voted McNabb to the pro bowl three straight years because he is black? The Eagle's gave him a contract worth over 100 million because he will draw more black fans .

The reason everyone in the sports community is all over Rush's comments is that they made no sense. If he were to say, "McNabb is overrated. It is Philly's defense that did it all." this wouldn't even be a question. Everyone would have shrugged their shoulders and said he doesn't know anything about football. I guess he thought he was on radio where he can blame everything on "the liberals."

DTOM,



I'm trying to think of a liberal sportscaster/analyst who said something politically incorrect on the job. First thought was Dennis Miller, but he's conservative--or at least he entertains at GOP fundraisers. Next one up was old colorful talker himself, John Madden. But I don't think he's political at all. So maybe the outrage isn't there because the "opposite side" isn't doing this?

I agree with Rush's statement that he was criticizing the media, not the player, but he should have realized how this would be taken. But he didn't and now he's out.

Victim of the liberal media or of his own poor judgement?

Amen. I watch the NFL to get a break from that kind of crap. For this reason, I think Rush was an idiot to bring up the subject.



I would agree with this statement except I would change the wording from "the only reason" to "the main reason".



BIG TIME Amen!

Would you care to provide some examples of those "inappropriate comments," Dontreadonme? Limbaugh did the same thing you just did; making a broad and sweeping generalization about the sports media without giving any specifics.

And now he's been bounced out of his "dream come true" job.

"The great people at ESPN did not want to deal with this kind of reaction," Limbaugh told the National Association of Broadcasters at its convention in Philadelphia on Thursday. "The path of least resistance became for me to resign."

Good. Quit, because that what a quitter does.

ESPN must have decided a 10 percent bounce in the ratings of NFL Countdown weren't worth the incoming fire the network was taking for Limbo's mouth disengaging from his brain.

But I'm sure Limbo can fill the free time he has on Sunday mornings consulting with his attorneys over the allegations that he has allegedly illegally purchased and abused painkillers

Conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh is being investigated for allegedly buying thousands of prescription painkillers from a black-market drug ring, the New York Daily News reported today.

The newspaper said Limbaugh has been implicated by his former housekeeper, who says she was Limbaugh's pill supplier for four years.

Wilma Cline, 42, was quoted by the newspaper as saying Limbaugh was hooked on the potent prescription drugs OxyContin, Lorcet and hydrocodone, and went through drug rehabilitation twice.

"There were times when I worried," Cline told the National Enquirer, which also carried the story in an edition being published today. "All these pills are enough to kill an elephant -- never mind a man."

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/1003/...baughdrugs.html

I await with great anticipation how conservatives that have been very desirous that a white conservative talk-show host do well and have invested hope in Limbaugh to now rally to his defense.

They will howl the liberals brought their hero down. They will moan that ESPN bowed down to pressure groups and left-wing politicians that have been lying in the weeds waiting for a chance to get Limbaugh.

Yeah, so what? At the end of the day Limbaugh quit. He didn't stand in the fire and take the hits. He cut and run and you can spin it any way you like it. He ran his mouth. Got slammed for it. Quit. End of story.

Blame the NAACP. Blame Wesley Clark and Howard Dean. Blame ESPN's management for not backing a controversial figure for saying something controversial.

But blame Rush Limbaugh for chickening out.

If the system is corrupt, should you continue to subject yourself to it? That's what sets Rush apart from everybody else. Instead of worrying about "how this would be taken", he told it like he saw it. He faced some consequences, though they were undeserved, but he got his message out and he continues to stand by it. Instead of making some mushy apology to appease the offended (who took his comments out of context, BTW), he does not succumb to the pressure of these overreacting few. I think he has acted admirably throughout this situation, and I think he's right: if he wasn't right about something, then why would this brouhaha be taking place? Even overly sensitive people can shrug things off if they are ridiculously incorrect. Another example, would he STILL have millions of loyal listeners today if he didn't have some truth to his arguments? It can't be ignorance that keeps these loyal listeners tuned in, otherwise there would be a successful liberal broadcaster or two to match him. But that's just not the case, eh?



Oh, spare me. We conservatives are only too well acquainted with the likes of this sort of situation, in which a controversial (but often true) statement leads to cries of "Racism!" or "Sexism!" and sometimes more than that. We know full well that the media are ready to spring on these stories like a bat out of hell so we can hear the oversensitive, politcally correct take on how "tragic" it is. Nobody has been brought down by any means, unless you think conservatives lost some points by having a loud voice in the community taken off of a sports anylist show. BOO-HOO! Happy?

As for ESPN, I would expect no higher of them. They are part of the media. 'Nuff said.

And yes, he did "resign" from the show. He did so, undoubtedly, under pressure of ESPN executives who didn't want to harm the image of parent company Disney (next thing you know, there'd be politcal cartoons of Mickey Mouse in a KKK hood or some foolish thing like that). But Rush still stands by his statement, and that's all that matters. Personally, if the freight train from hell that is the Reverend Al Sharpton and his gang were coming, I would have resigned too. That wouldn't have been bravery, that would've been stupidity. So, go ahead NT, YOU twist it anyway YOU like it and enjoy it for whatever it's worth.

Gee, whatever happen to the First Amendment?

Granted, I know nothing about Black quarterbacks but I think I'm capable of discerning a racist remark when I see, read or hear one.

Clearly the man was stating his opinion about what he perceived to be the case regarding the handling of black quarterbacks by the media and nothing more. oy vey.

Since there was nothing to apologize for, I'm glad he didn't offer one.

PC police...at it again.

Here's a link to Rush's on-air explanation: Rush's explanation



There was zero to apologize for here. If it were such an issue, why did the outrage occur 2 days later, instead of that same day or the next day?

The fact of the matter is that there is no time on a TV format to go into a deep explanation of why you feel the media has over-hyped McNabb. That is simply fact. Rush threw his thoughts out there, some people (namely, certain Presidential candidates) reacted to it. Rush resigned rather than put undue strain on ESPN.

Rush took callers regarding this very issue. Here is a transcript: Only NFL, Liberal Sportswriters Can Mention McNabb's Race?


Another over-blown issue...I blame the "24 hour media" that has nothing better to cover...

So who are the conservative sportswriters and who are the liberal ones? When Rush said that the media is trying to protect McNabb because they wanted a black quarterback to hang their hat on he put his peers on "NFL Countdown" into that statement. The NFL analysts are always on Culpepper, Stewart, Carter, and other black quarterbacks. In his explanation he says how the Philly media has treated him with "kid gloves" trying not to say anything about him because he is black. No. Most beat writers in cities make everyone on their team look good. McNabb is not even the NFL poster boy, it is Vick. After he came back from injury last year sportswriters around the country ripped his play and this season he has really taken it.

Rush tried to implicate the sports community of a "liberal bias" when it is just not there. He makes it seem that no one will say anything about black quarterbacks but I guess he hasn't read any articles about Kordel Stewart or Quincy Carter lately. He just injected race for no reason and used the tired "liberal bias" card when it was unnecessary.

I guess the liberal sportswriters should take the bone out of their nose, as he would say.

As a moderate, and not affiliated with any political party, I actually find this kind of funny. Let's take a look at some of the postings here, shall we?


Hmm, could it be that not everyone in the country watches football pre-game shows, and were unaware of what happened, until it hit the papers on Monday and Tuesday? It took a few days for the Dixie Chicks comments of Bush before the war to come to light and start to build a backlash as well.

Speaking of the Dixie Chicks, as well as some other celebrities like Tim Robbins and Martin Sheen, and Danny Glover, conservatives had no problem at all with calling for boycotts of their shows and movies, and demanding they be fired from commercial work and movies, because of their "politically incorrect speech". And they were boycotted and fired.

Conservatives said this was only fair - after all, they were free to say what they want, but that they had to understand that there could be consequenses to their politically incorrect speech, and if that meant that they lost work, well that was just the way it was. If they didn't like it, they should apologize. Or, they should just suck it up and deal with the bashing they were getting.

Now that it's one of their own, however, it's quite a different story:

Why is it his consequenses are undeserved, but liberals are? Liberals apparently told it like they saw it too.


Are you then saying that just possibly, there was something to what the anti-war people had to say, since there was "such a brouhaha" over what they said?

Finally, the "Whatever happened to the First Amendment" argument. The same one so easily dismissed be the conservatives, with the following statement:
The First Amendment has nothing to do with this. Rush was not censored in any way by the government. He resigned from, (or was forced to resign) by a private company. If he had not resigned, and was instead fired, it still would not have mattered. The company is well within their rights to terminate someone for what they say, if they feel it does not fit with their company image.


So, let's turn this last quote around and see how it plays, shall we?

"Gee, whatever happen to the First Amendment?
Granted, I know nothing about these actors and singers, but I think I'm capable of discerning a traitorous, un-American remark when I see, read or hear one.

Clearly they were just stating their opinion about what they perceived to be the case regarding the handling of the war by the administration and media, and nothing more. oy vey.

Since there was nothing to apologize for, I'm glad they didn't offer one.

PC police...at it again. "

Seems there are plenty of "PC Police" on both sides of the isle.

The football league or any sports league in America is a composite of people who share various differences, when it comes down to millions of dollars and what brings in people, its a winning team i would imagine for the most part. My family is a sports fan basically, and i am well aware that no player regardless of these differences is free or exempt from speculation on their ability. Be it a black player holds no sway, in acceptance or rejection. Every position in every sport basically has people that share differences playing them well or foul. Personally i feel that rush’s statements have nothing to do with sports, and he should stick to being a politic radio person. Being that is a rather sad statement i just made about politics, i would agree that pc like i said in an earlier thread of mine seems to be just another battleground, but i do feel that rush’s statements were not only unfounded, but wrong. Basically the only time something like race plays a role in sports would be something like the first polish basketball player, or the first black baseball player. i will not go as far as to say race itself holds no sway in sports, inside of sports, or sports fan relations, but i really doubt McNabb made it to pro bowls, playoffs and received a nice contract based on the color of his skin. Humanity still has problems with race big and small, I doubt sports is utterly free of such issues, or free from being people in humanity, still I don’t see rush’s statements holding a candle to reality.

I'm far from being a football fan, but it seems to me that any time someone makes a claim that someone else is only successful because of their race, it is at the very least the epitome of tactlessness.

The "liberal media" Rush is complaining about are sports writers for crying out loud. The same "liberal media" that brought us Jimmy the Greek, that makes sexual comments to the widow of an athlete, that reports the name and address of someone for having the temerity to accuse an athlete of rape. I certainly don't see any "political correctness run amok" in the sports media.

What it really is, guys, is fear of being sued, not "political correctness." The networks have deep pockets, and they would rather not share their bounty with those who would sue over Rush's comments, I'll wager.

I would never have hired Rush Limbaugh in the first place. What he said was actually uncharacteristically tame compared to what he says on his radio show. It used to really rankle when he would refer to supporters of women's equality as "feminazis." Now which is more inflammatory to you? Suggesting that the media wanted to promote black quarterbacks and that this man wasn't worth it or comparing the women's movement to Nazism?

When ESPN hired Rush, they KNEW who they were getting. They wanted some controversy, and they got it. Now they've "repented" by pressuring Rush to quit.

Whether you or I like him or not, Rush was being true to himself, and ESPN is being disingenuous.

No, I do not support or agree with what he said regarding this quarterback or his characterization of black quarterbacks. But I don't blame Rush for simply being himself, a man of very strong and usually objectionable opinions.

I blame ESPN for acting horrified when Rush gave the performance he was hired for!

(I do remember when Isiah Thomas was rightfully criticized for saying that Larry Bird wasn't that great, that he only got the publicity because he was white. That was inappropriate and rude as well. But he didn't lose his job over it.)

The Slate is defending Rush Limbaugh's position on McNabb.

The guy who wrote this piece, Allen Berra, is a well respected sports statistician.
Rush Limbaugh Was Right

On McNabb's performance:

Then there is the race issue:


I think that says it all.

Amlord, why do you post something that is one conservative patting another conservative on the back? This is proves no point except that Donovan McNabb is black and he is a football player.

Ok I am an avid fantasy football player, and I have to say I have never wanted nor will I ever want the philadelphia defense.

I did have Donovan McNabb, two years ago, last year and this year. Why? Because two years ago he got me points both because of QB pct, TD and Interceptions and yards.

He is an excellent quarterback, maybe not the best in the NFL, but then again, everybody says there quarterback is the best. Regardless of color.

Monty

Well, I am finally going to weigh in on this issue. I’ll probably regret it. Probably be labeled as racist too. But, here goes.

I want to start with the second part of Limbaugh’s statement.

There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

Is Limbaugh right? First, we must establish if McNabb is overrated.

Fact #1 Eagles Star Donovan McNabb is Highest-Paid Player in NFL History

Don’t you think the highest paid NFL player should also be the best at his position? Sounds reasonable to me. Heck, at least he should be in the top three, don’t you think?

Fact #2. Year to date quarterback ratings. A quarterback’s performance is best judged by what is called a quarterback rating. To be considered “qualified” for this rating, a QB must have 14 attempts per team’s games played. For instance, if a team has played three games, the QB must have 42 passing attempts for the year. This helps to exclude people that have stepped in and played only a few sets of downs. Through last week, 32 NFL quarterbacks have “qualified” for a rating. McNabb’s rating is 51.1. Out of the 32 quarterbacks, he is #30. Yes folks, there are only two worse at this point in the season.

Now, he’s had some bad games. How did he fair last year? His rating for last season was 86.0, a good rating. In fact, out of all the QB’s that qualified last year, he was ranked 7th. That’s #7 folks, not 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even 5th.

The above stats can be found on the ESPN web site and thanks to a male friend of mine for helping me with the stats. From these facts, I conclude that McNabb could be considered overrated.

Oops, I designated my friend as male, I must be sexist.


Now, let’s examine the first part – the most controversial part of what Limbaugh said.

"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well …

That the media wants African-Americans to do well.

Lets broaden that statement to “people”. Is this a horrible thing, people want to see the Black race excel? I would think the REVERSE of what he said to be racist...That people DO NOT want Blacks to do well. Think about it.

Reverse the statement:

I think what we’ve had here is no social concern in the NFL. The media has not been desirous that a black quarterback do well.... THAT would be a lie.

His inability to play good or bad football is due to being black. THAT would have been racist.

So was it the term “black quarterback”?

A quick Google search using the words "black" and "quarterback" brings back 32000 hits, a clear indicator that the term "black quarterback" is used by the media all the time. The term is used on sports programs all the time. Duke University even did a study just last year about the effects of the black quarterback on TV ratings.



Refer back to the link I provided earlier in this post with regard to McNabb being the highest-paid player in NFL history. A paragraph in that article states: ...making him the highest-drafted African-American quarterback in National Football League history.

Using the term "black quarterback" is approved; in fact it could be stated that it's encouraged as long as the comments surrounding the term are positive. If used this way you're seen as progressive, diverse, etc.

Using the term "black quarterback" is racist or race baiting if the comments surrounding it are critical. It doesn't matter that they are truthful/analytical.

As to freedom of speech:

When people criticized the Dixie Chicks, you heard voices screaming about their freedom of speech. At no time during all of that did I hear one political leader suggest they be released from their recording contract. Calls for boycotts, refusing to play their records by the public is not the same as the two highest polling (for the 2004 Presidential election) Democrats demanding that Limbaugh be fired. It seems to me that freedom of speech to Wesley Clark and Howard Dean means freedom of their approved speech only.

I have not heard ONE liberal speak out on behalf of Limbaugh's freedom of speech. So when I hear people say, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it", I’ll know they are full of crap.

Rush's statements weren't racist. Those who are trying to make this an issue are the ONLY ones playing the race card.

Well, as I'm the one who started this thread, I guess that would be me, Belladonna?

I don't really care what Allen Barra says in defense of Rush Limbaugh. G. Gordon Liddy, who's never been confused with a bleeding heart liberal, told Ted Koppel on Nightline the mistake Limbaugh made was stressing a point that was out of date. Most people had moved past the color issue of NFL quarterbacks. You find one guy that says Rush was Right and I can find two more that says Rush was Wrong. What's that going to prove except everyone's got an opinion?

Rush can slither back under his rock and take all of his little Dittoheads with him. He made a fool of himself on national television and then he bailed out like a punk when the heat was on.

Nobody's suppressed Limbo's "right to free speech" Belladonna. The notion that anyone has is what's really full of crap. He's a rich, white man who gets to spew his opinions five days a week on a popular radio show. His right to put his big foot in his bigger mouth hasn't been limited in any. Maybe it's just that for once he's being held accountable for his views is what has all the undies of the Dittoheads in a knot. They don't like to see their hero actually have to stand in the fire and take some heat when he pops off at the mouth. Frankly, I don't see an issue here that cries out for the ACLU to rush to Rush's defense.

Black quarterbacks exist in the NFL and like any other player at any other position, it's their performance, not their skin color, that determines whether or not they make it in the league. Most fans have accepted that fact, but there are still a few holdouts who see color first, last and always.

Rush made a fool of himself. He injected race where it was unnecessary and it cost him. If he hadn't quit, he should have been fired. Then again, ESPN shouldn't have hired him in the first place when all he knew about football was nothing you could get from a beer-soaked bozo in a sports bar after a Sunday doubleheader.

It was a bad week for the Rushman. But on the bright side, it gives him more free time to gobble painkillers.

Way to go Rush! Quitter.

I find it funny, really, that this has become such a big deal.

Michael Irvin (black ex-Dallas WR and currently black commentator on ESPN) said right after the comments were made : "Rush has a point."

None of the other panelists (including Tom Jackson, another black ex-player) were shocked with the comments at the time.

I guess if the "Brad Johnson has a better QB rating than McNabb" stat doesn't prove that McNabb is over-hyped, nothing will. McNabb is a good QB, he is simply not an elite QB. He is, however, the highest paid player in the NFL.

As with anything in sports, evaluating a player is a personal judgement call. There are facts in this case that support the idea that McNabb isn't as good as he is made out to be.

In any event, the comments were not racist. If anything, they were a condemnation of the media, not of McNabb or his performance.

Beladona you do realize McNabb was injured last year after the seventh game. And most likely he is still getting adjusted since the injury... Or was that an irrelevant fact in your pursuit to prove Rush Limbaugh Right.

This subject matters because he used race to qualify his position.

monty

nighttimer said:


And this WAS necessary? When is a person racist, nighttimer? What is the definition of racist to you? Because I am totally confused.

Those same people who at first called Rush’s comments racist are now saying they are “racial in nature” and therefore are wrong. Somebody let us white people know when and under what circumstances we can use the word black. Then try applying those same principles to yourself.

nighttimer said:


Monty said:


The same people complaining about Rush’s comment feel it’s okay to use the color of skin when it suits THEIR purpose.

We can’t have it both ways ya’ll. You can’t speak to a desire for black quarterbacks and coaches in the NFL – demand that black men are interviewed for coaching positions to ensure racial equality – then turn around and say we are not desirous of same.

If race doesn't matter - we will never see another thread on these boards to which ANY race is referenced.

Totally disingenuous argument. Yes, you would think that's the way it's supposed to be. We all know, however, that it's more about the player's agents negotiating skills, and how much the clubs owner thinks he's worth. To suggest he's overhyped because of his salary-vs-ranking is a non sequiter here, because the sportswriters don't vote on his salary.


No, I didn't hear any conservative politicos calling for the termination of their contract, or even for the boycotts. But maybe that's because they knew that they didn't have to. Rush, and Sean Hannity, and Anne Coulter and the like would do it for them. And they did do it for them. By the way, I do agree with you, that all politicians should stay out of this kind of thing. The public's backlash in both cases was all that was needed.



Okay, as I said before, I'm a moderate, not a liberal. And I did say that he was entitled to his opinion, earlier in the thread. “Whatever happened to free speech?” The answer is nothing. Rush was free to offer his opinion. But free speech works both ways. As with the Dixie Chicks, those who disagreed and were offended by Rush's words were free to criticize him. And, yes, ESPN was free to urge him to resign. It is time for all those involved to stop crying about the backlash. As a good lesson to all, when you say it, be prepared to reap the results.

Is Mcnabb overrated?

I think the jury is still out since hes still a relatively young player, but in the face of all the CURRENT information, I would have to say right now....Yes.

Does the media take it easy on Mcnabb because hes black?

Can't say one way or another. Personally, I don't know enough about the coverage the guy has received to be able to tell one way or another.

Is there a chance the above is true?

Possibly.

If anyone else besides Rush Limbaugh had made the same assertion would there be as much uproar?

Depends. If a black person had made the claim definitely not. If another white person had made the claim....maybe so...maybe not. One thing for sure....Rush's high profile made him an easy target for all those that hate him and what he espouses.

So...to answer the question...Who's playing the race card????

Seems like that depends on what your agenda is. My opinion is we ALL seem to use the race card when it suits our purposes.

But what do I know?!