Full Version: Smallpox vaccinations for all
The Federal government is considering requiring that people within the United States to be inoculated against the smallpox virus due to the possible threat of biological weapons in the future on U.S. soil. As a father of two young boys, as well as being one of the first born that was not required to receive the shot, I wonder if it is worth the 1/12,000 risk of major complications. Let me know what you think!
I thnik I'd risk the complications and have the shot.
MT
MT
QUOTE(Madtown @ Nov 2 2002, 06:49 AM)
I thnik I'd risk the complications and have the shot.
MT
MT
For the first time, I think we agree on something MT.
YEA, HALLELUJAH!!
MT
MT
And I as well. What's going on here? 
But what about testing children? The AMA is bringing it to the general public to give opinions on whether to test children with the vaccine. Not so sure I'd be willing if it involved my kids. Glad I don't have to make the choice.
But what about testing children? The AMA is bringing it to the general public to give opinions on whether to test children with the vaccine. Not so sure I'd be willing if it involved my kids. Glad I don't have to make the choice.
This may be a stupid question...but wasn't small pox vacinations required at one time?
Darcaine
Darcaine
QUOTE(Darcaine @ Nov 2 2002, 02:46 PM)
This may be a stupid question...but wasn't small pox vacinations required at one time?
Darcaine
Darcaine
I'm not positive, but I don't think there ever was a law that required small pox vaciantions,but they were certainly recommended.
Infants get a series of shots during their first year. I don't know if small pox is still on that list or not. I would guess that it is.
MT
I just read about this and checked with the grandchildren's parents. The school age ones that is. It has not been required for quite some time. Can't give you the exact date right now. 
When I was a kid it was required to get a vaccine. It hasn't been for many years. Would I want my kids to have the shot? Sure. I think any preventative medicine is always a good thing.
I'm wondering what is meant by required? What would happen if someone just didn't have their kids vaccinated even though it is/was required?
MT
Maybe kids who didn't have required shots would not be allowed to attend school?
MT
Maybe kids who didn't have required shots would not be allowed to attend school?
In the 3 states I checked with my kids about if the children don't have their shots up to date they cannot attend school. Whether it is law or what I don't know, but will find out.
Smallpox vaccines were stopped in 1972 when they believed that smallpox had been annihilated, however with the emergence of biological weapons, plus the fact that we know Iraq has the smallpox virus, (We know because we gave it to them right out the University of Iowa laboratories in the 70's) Once again it has been thought that starting the vaccinations would once again be a good idea..
I would have to agree with him on this one. It seems quite ironic to me how we end up giving our enemies the weapons to use against us. Shouldn't we think things through a little more clearly, or was biological warfare unheard of in the 1970's? I am too young to know, but i am sure someone does. Fill me in.
I think the vaccine should be made available as an option, but I'm against making it mandatory.
[QUOTE] iwcbdepriest @ Nov 3 2002, 08:48 PM
"Shouldn't we think things through a little more clearly, or was biological warfare unheard of in the 1970's? I am too young to know, but i am sure someone does. Fill me in."
Biological warfare has been in practice for a long time, iwcbdepriest. In fact, a crude form of it was used during the Crusades. We gave it to them to fight another one of our old enemies, Iran, I think.
On the smallpox vaccination issue, I agree with otseng. The possible infection from it sounds to risky to make it mandatory to me.
"Shouldn't we think things through a little more clearly, or was biological warfare unheard of in the 1970's? I am too young to know, but i am sure someone does. Fill me in."
Biological warfare has been in practice for a long time, iwcbdepriest. In fact, a crude form of it was used during the Crusades. We gave it to them to fight another one of our old enemies, Iran, I think.
On the smallpox vaccination issue, I agree with otseng. The possible infection from it sounds to risky to make it mandatory to me.
[quote=iwcmpech,Nov 6 2002, 01:56 PM][QUOTE] iwcbdepriest @ Nov 3 2002, 08:48 PM
"Shouldn't we think things through a little more clearly, or was biological warfare unheard of in the 1970's? I am too young to know, but i am sure someone does. Fill me in."
Biological warfare has been in practice for a long time, iwcbdepriest. In fact, a crude form of it was used during the Crusades. We gave it to them to fight another one of our old enemies, Iran, I think.
On the smallpox vaccination issue, I agree with otseng. The possible infection from it sounds to risky to make it mandatory to me.[/quote]
DePriest..
You're right, we gave all kinds of biological and conventional weapons (or sold them) to Iraq when Iran was our big enemy upon the coup toppling the Shaw's regime...interestingly, we gave (or sold) plenty of arms to Iran before the Shaw's fall as well. The United States has continually armed countries without thought of where or when weapons or technology will show up again to bite us in the rears! Again, lack of foresight based on lack of historical knowledge. Does anyone remember during the Gulf War the news covering the Iraqi use of TOW missiles and launchers....courtesy of the U.S. Government, made by Emerson Electric in St. Louis, Missouri. Same weapons are in Iran...I know an engineer who left Iran when the Shaw fell to Khomeni with 5 firing pins for TOW launchers in his briefcase.
Personally, because I'm an old person, I had a small pox vaccine. Yes, they were required to get into school at the time. I don't recall anyone my family ever knew that had a reaction to one. Many observers of this site probably had "oral polio" vaccines as well, which can actually give the recipient polio. Oral Polio has become less desirable in the last 5 years because of the active virus it contains. I am sure our government (in kahootz with the pharmaceutical companies) will be able to come up with a semi-live or inactive virus.
Also, just for general information, many children may be excused from certain vaccinations if they have a family history of reactions, or the parent petitions the school system to exempt them. A good instance is certain religious beliefs that do not allow medical interventions. Personally, I'd vaccinate my kids, especially since there's no "natural" immunity to small pox left in our country...look at what it did to the Native Americans.
"Shouldn't we think things through a little more clearly, or was biological warfare unheard of in the 1970's? I am too young to know, but i am sure someone does. Fill me in."
Biological warfare has been in practice for a long time, iwcbdepriest. In fact, a crude form of it was used during the Crusades. We gave it to them to fight another one of our old enemies, Iran, I think.
On the smallpox vaccination issue, I agree with otseng. The possible infection from it sounds to risky to make it mandatory to me.[/quote]
DePriest..
You're right, we gave all kinds of biological and conventional weapons (or sold them) to Iraq when Iran was our big enemy upon the coup toppling the Shaw's regime...interestingly, we gave (or sold) plenty of arms to Iran before the Shaw's fall as well. The United States has continually armed countries without thought of where or when weapons or technology will show up again to bite us in the rears! Again, lack of foresight based on lack of historical knowledge. Does anyone remember during the Gulf War the news covering the Iraqi use of TOW missiles and launchers....courtesy of the U.S. Government, made by Emerson Electric in St. Louis, Missouri. Same weapons are in Iran...I know an engineer who left Iran when the Shaw fell to Khomeni with 5 firing pins for TOW launchers in his briefcase.
Personally, because I'm an old person, I had a small pox vaccine. Yes, they were required to get into school at the time. I don't recall anyone my family ever knew that had a reaction to one. Many observers of this site probably had "oral polio" vaccines as well, which can actually give the recipient polio. Oral Polio has become less desirable in the last 5 years because of the active virus it contains. I am sure our government (in kahootz with the pharmaceutical companies) will be able to come up with a semi-live or inactive virus.
Also, just for general information, many children may be excused from certain vaccinations if they have a family history of reactions, or the parent petitions the school system to exempt them. A good instance is certain religious beliefs that do not allow medical interventions. Personally, I'd vaccinate my kids, especially since there's no "natural" immunity to small pox left in our country...look at what it did to the Native Americans.
From today's Wa. Post.
I think I'll pass.
QUOTE
As physical specimens, the Baylor University students were fit and healthy, the "crème de la crème," in the words of researcher Kathy Edwards. Yet when she inoculated them with smallpox vaccine, arms swelled, temperatures spiked and panic spread.
It was the same at clinics in Iowa, Tennessee and California. Of 200 young adults who received the vaccine as part of a recent government study, one-third missed at least one day of work or school, 75 had high fevers, and several were put on antibiotics because physicians worried that their blisters signaled a bacterial infection.
postIt was the same at clinics in Iowa, Tennessee and California. Of 200 young adults who received the vaccine as part of a recent government study, one-third missed at least one day of work or school, 75 had high fevers, and several were put on antibiotics because physicians worried that their blisters signaled a bacterial infection.
I think I'll pass.
The government telling you that you have NO choice but give your kids the shot just doesn't seem right. Should the government be able to tell you that you HAVE TO take something into your body?
I was in Korea when the Army first made the anthrax vaccination mandatory. If you refused you were chaptered out with a Dishonorable Discharge. I didn't think that was fair either but governement service sucks like that so you do what you're told.
The problem I had was that it was twice the normal dose and there were twice as many. The plant that produced the vaccine was shut down becuase of poor production techniques and it only protects against the 3 or 4 natural strands. It's not likely that they would be used in weapons.
um... so it's off the subject.
I was in Korea when the Army first made the anthrax vaccination mandatory. If you refused you were chaptered out with a Dishonorable Discharge. I didn't think that was fair either but governement service sucks like that so you do what you're told.
The problem I had was that it was twice the normal dose and there were twice as many. The plant that produced the vaccine was shut down becuase of poor production techniques and it only protects against the 3 or 4 natural strands. It's not likely that they would be used in weapons.
um... so it's off the subject.
Now that Eli Lily is protected from any lawsuits related to it we're all set. 
I don't think you're off subject at all, Roy. I think your experience brings valuable insight to this discussion.
By the way, Danya, you're link doesn't work
By the way, Danya, you're link doesn't work
Interesting. The link came from the website at work....which went directly to the Post...and now I'm having a hard time finding the story. 
try another link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...2-2002Dec4.html
try another link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...2-2002Dec4.html
Anyone else suspicious that this could be related to the small pox vaccinations?
CNN
QUOTE
Marines probe recruit's death
From Barbara Starr
CNN
SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) --The Marine Corps is investigating whether an 18-year-old recruit who died while being treated for an acute rash may have had Strep A, a rare but very serious bacterial infection, officials at the recruit training center in San Diego said Monday.
Officials were awaiting autopsy results for Pvt. Miguel Zavala, who went to the medical clinic Sunday morning with a rash on his left ankle.
Hours later, the rash had spread to the rest of his body, and Zavala died at 1 p.m. (4 p.m. ET) while being treated at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego....
As of Monday, some 50 people were being treated for bacterial infections and most were improving with antibiotics, Malone said....
From Barbara Starr
CNN
SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) --The Marine Corps is investigating whether an 18-year-old recruit who died while being treated for an acute rash may have had Strep A, a rare but very serious bacterial infection, officials at the recruit training center in San Diego said Monday.
Officials were awaiting autopsy results for Pvt. Miguel Zavala, who went to the medical clinic Sunday morning with a rash on his left ankle.
Hours later, the rash had spread to the rest of his body, and Zavala died at 1 p.m. (4 p.m. ET) while being treated at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego....
As of Monday, some 50 people were being treated for bacterial infections and most were improving with antibiotics, Malone said....
CNN
If this were being transferred via poor sterile protecols during vaccination, I would expect a gram positive bacterial infection to occure first at this vaccination skin site as opposed to an ankle. There should be essentially zero incubation time with a bacterial skin infection.
What I thought was very weird was this:
An investigation revealed a "higher-than-normal incidence" of Strep A at the depot, so doctors inoculated all 5,000 of the recruits and their supervisory personnel, Huly said.
It was unclear, however, what vaccine was given to the recruits, because there is no vaccine for Strep A. A spokesman for the depot was unable to clarify what inoculation they received.
As of Monday, some 50 people were being treated for bacterial infections and most were improving with antibiotics, Malone said.
From the same story. The first part sounds weird. The second part sounds like that story I posted earlier with all of the people who tested the smallpox vaccine needing antibiotics for infections.
An investigation revealed a "higher-than-normal incidence" of Strep A at the depot, so doctors inoculated all 5,000 of the recruits and their supervisory personnel, Huly said.
It was unclear, however, what vaccine was given to the recruits, because there is no vaccine for Strep A. A spokesman for the depot was unable to clarify what inoculation they received.
As of Monday, some 50 people were being treated for bacterial infections and most were improving with antibiotics, Malone said.
From the same story. The first part sounds weird. The second part sounds like that story I posted earlier with all of the people who tested the smallpox vaccine needing antibiotics for infections.
That information does look like smoke. Though strept is commonly a skin infection it also is the type of bacterial associated with disease such as rheumatic fever which is a heart valve and systemic type of infection.
You may be correct that there is a coverup as there is a fear people will associate the Strep infection with the smallpox vaccine itself if such a story were released. I do not think it is good policy to hide information on the basis of the public being deemed unable to understand the information.
You may be correct that there is a coverup as there is a fear people will associate the Strep infection with the smallpox vaccine itself if such a story were released. I do not think it is good policy to hide information on the basis of the public being deemed unable to understand the information.
Is smallpox a bacterial infection...is it viral?
Smallpox is a virus. There are many pox viruses. Chickenpox is another well known one. Pox viruses infect many different species. Those of you with small dogs are probably familiar with bumps on their skin when they are older. Those are usually caused by a pox virus and they are very benign. Cattle warts are a pox virus. Some pox viruses are zoonotic but most are not.
According to the NY Times yesterday two hospitals (Grady Memorial in Atlanta & Virginia Commonwealth Univ in Richmond) both say the risks of the vaccine are too significant to allow them to inoculate their employees under the new federal guidelines.
They also say that for every million recipients, 15 will have life-threatening reactions, including one or two deaths, and hundreds will have severe rashes or other illnesses.
They say the vaccine is made from a live virus that's a relative of smallpox. It's administered with a needle that creates an open sore. For three weeks the virus is highly contagious and can cause infection, either in the person who received the vaccine or other people in close contact.
Doesn't this mean that simply vaccinating everyone could very well introduce it back into our environment? Isn't the possiblity of that higher than the possiblity of it being introduced by a terrorist attack, which I read would be extremely difficult to carry out?
They also say that for every million recipients, 15 will have life-threatening reactions, including one or two deaths, and hundreds will have severe rashes or other illnesses.
They say the vaccine is made from a live virus that's a relative of smallpox. It's administered with a needle that creates an open sore. For three weeks the virus is highly contagious and can cause infection, either in the person who received the vaccine or other people in close contact.
Doesn't this mean that simply vaccinating everyone could very well introduce it back into our environment? Isn't the possiblity of that higher than the possiblity of it being introduced by a terrorist attack, which I read would be extremely difficult to carry out?
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