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EugLev
Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?
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BecomingHuman
Call them something that doesn't offend them. The "black" label is so regular now that it isn't used with hate but with labeling. Eccentric titles like "red," or "yellow," are not commonly used words and have not been commonly acknowledged and accepted. Therefore, they might be offensive to someone.
doomed_planet
QUOTE(EugLev @ Oct 7 2003, 06:02 AM)
Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

We cannot call Asians "yellow" because we have already saved
that description for the French (following WW2)..... tongue.gif
Victoria Silverwolf
QUOTE(EugLev @ Oct 7 2003, 02:02 AM)
Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

The problem with all racial terms (which should, of course, only be used when appropriate and necessary) is that they carry "baggage" beyond the literal meaning of the words. This baggage changes with time, and it may seem utterly arbitrary. Unfortunately, this is inevitable, and one must simply try to be as considerate about language as possible.

Decades ago "colored" would have been a perfectly polite term; now it carries the notion of Jim Crow laws and segregation with it. (The NAACP would not have the same name if it were created today.) The term "Negro" is getting to be about the same. Both "Black" and "African-American" seem to be acceptable nowadays; the latter perhaps a little more formal.

The term "Yellow" not only suggests things like "the Yellow Menace" and other racist concepts, but it's very inaccurate. (Even more so, I think, than "White" and "Black" are inaccurate.) The same might be said for "Red." which also suggests the racist term "redskin." "Indian" still seems to be more or less acceptable, but I personally think "Native American" is better.

"Brown" seems kind of iffy. There are certainly groups like the Brown Panthers who accept it. Since there are so many more-or-less "brown" people (including all the groups we've talked about above, from "White" to "Black") it seems not the best possible term to me. "Hispanic" seems better to me.

Much ado about nothing? Perhaps; but words are very powerful, and should be used with great care and with an effort to be civil to all.
Robin_Scotland
Personally, I don't care what people call me (Im caucasian). White will do, it doesnt offend, but I can see that it could. In fact I'd rather not to refer to people by their race, as it isn't generally something I think about. When I meet someone I don't think 'My god! your skin is yellower than mine, I shall now refer to you as Bob the Yellow'. I don't refer to the race of my white friends. In fact, hardly anyone every calls someone 'white', unless of course its required for a description on Crimewatch or something.

But that doesn't really respond to the question. In my opinion it can be too difficult to describe race, especially as it is son intermingled. If I was hispanic and was described as being an Arab or Asian or Jewish or whatever, simply because I looked like I could be, yeah I'd be offended. I don't see anything wrong with the term 'black' or 'white', despite their connotaions, but agree with Victoria on why other terms can be deemed unacceptable.
Monty
I think the best thing to call people is by there name and not by there race. You see a man or a woman go up to them and ask there name. Get to know them.

Don't separate yourself with any label. Labeling I find is the biggest excuse to not go up and talk to people. Instead of labeling a group of people meet some of them. And leave any other preconceived notions at home.

Monty
campbejm
QUOTE(Monty @ Oct 7 2003, 11:57 AM)
I think the best thing to call people is by there name and not by there race.  You see a man or a woman go up to them and ask there name.  Get to know them. 

Don't separate yourself with any label.  Labeling I find is the biggest excuse to not go up and talk to people.  Instead of labeling a group of people meet some of them.  And leave any other preconceived notions at home.

Monty

Yes, but there are people who are black, and people who are white. That's just a fact. As I understand it, this thread isn’t about preconceived notions, it's about nomenclature. I call white people 'white' and black people 'black', because I personally feel like the terms European American and African American are liberal P.C. vomit. There is nothing European about my white friends and nothing African about my black friends. It is what it is. Color is a feature like height, weight, or eye color, or hair color. Could you imagine calling blonds: "Scandinavian Americans"? Not only is it just beating around the bush, but it’s also inaccurate.

The reason 'red' and 'yellow' are not exceptable terms is the racial baggage like VIctoria said.
Monty
QUOTE(campbejm @ Oct 7 2003, 08:49 AM)
QUOTE(Monty @ Oct 7 2003, 11:57 AM)
I think the best thing to call people is by there name and not by there race.  You see a man or a woman go up to them and ask there name.  Get to know them.  

Don't separate yourself with any label.  Labeling I find is the biggest excuse to not go up and talk to people.  Instead of labeling a group of people meet some of them.  And leave any other preconceived notions at home.

Monty

Yes, but there are people who are black, and people who are white. That's just a fact. As I understand it, this thread isn’t about preconceived notions, it's about nomenclature. I call white people 'white' and black people 'black', because I personally feel like the terms European American and African American are liberal P.C. vomit. There is nothing European about my white friends and nothing African about my black friends. It is what it is. Color is a feature like height, weight, or eye color, or hair color. Could you imagine calling blonds: "Scandinavian Americans"? Not only is it just beating around the bush, but it’s also inaccurate.

The reason 'red' and 'yellow' are not exceptable terms is the racial baggage like VIctoria said.

Nomenclature is being replaced with preconceived notions. Everytime a minorities name is changed the previous name is given racial baggage because of people addressing there preconceived notions through nomenclature. Perhaps, instead of worrying about nomenclature we could worry about the real issue the person.

Monty
kmsouthern
African American is the more "formal" term, usually used in the professional world. Black is the everyday term usually used among blacks when relating to one another. My husband used black, as do I. I don't often use African American (and don't know many who do, in daily speech), but on occasion will use it in writing (like, here).

I'm pretty certain that if you interviewed 100 black men/women, they'd overwhelmingly chose black over African American...it's more personal. I don't know a single black person, woman or man, who refers to him or herself as African American (except for paperwork when there is no other option).

And while black hasn't always been a "term of endearment" for African Americans (used so as not to be repetitive with black in this sentence biggrin.gif), the Civil Rights movement sought to recreate the term as a positive one, hence it's presence and use today. Yellow, Red, etc. aren't used because of the "histories" (as others have already mentioned). I know a LOT of people who use brown, but these are usually people with children of multicultural backgrounds (mostly with one black parent). But my step-father is Hispanic (his parents were born in Mexico) and I don't know of anyone in his family who calls themselves or other Mexicans/Hispanics brown (though I have certainly heard "brown pride" before). I also know that "Oriental" is a much-hated word among the Asians I know ("Oriental is a kind of food/rug, not a kind of people"), though I've heard many unaware white folks refer to Asians as Orientals. That one really irritates me for whatever reason.

As far as Native Americans, I think we should really try to find out what THEY would like to be called, since I'm sure they didn't call themselves "Native Americans" prior to European colonization whistling.gif - I have heard Indigenous Americans used on occasion, which, though a mouthful, is probably the most accurate of the terms I have heard. Native, to me, still implies "savage" and is somewhat derogatory, as that's how it's typically used throughout history throughout the world (the "restless natives", etc.).
campbejm
I would imagine Native Americans or Indigenous Americans or whatever you want to call them, called themselves things like Cherokee and Iroquois and Apache before the Europeans landed here.
Google
Cephus
QUOTE(EugLev @ Oct 7 2003, 06:02 AM)
Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

Personally, I don't refer to anyone as anything, except if it is necessary to identify them specifically by characteristic. "African-American" has no descriptive quality, it is an invented, absolutely nonsensical term. By all rights, a white person from South Africa is African-American. An asian, born in Egypt, is African-American. The same is true of calling a hispanic born in Beijing an Asian-American.
quarkhead
Having lived on Reservations for over three years now, I can tell you pretty definitively that "Native Americans" refer to themselves and each other as "Indian" generally, and often by tribe specifically. On the Navajo rez, I would be introduced to people who were identified as Oglala, Cherokee, etc. When talking about the whole group, the term Indian was by far the most common.

When it comes to labels like black and white, I agree with Cephus' last post. They are invented terms, mostly.

One thing I have always found telling, something which perhaps speaks to an underlying remnant of racist institutions, is that in our society, a person with even the smallest discernable negroid characteristics is thought of as black, while a black person with caucasian characteristics is never thought of as white. Weird.
Hobbes
Quark and Cephus,

Very good points. Personally, I think the various labels all smack of political correctness, which I have never been a big fan of. People can be black, white, Asian, or Hispanic just as much as they are tall, short, fat, skinny, old, young, etc, etc., etc. They are just descriptive terms. If my daughter is trying to tell me about something she sees, and she refers to someone as Black, I have a difficult time explaining to her why that term shouldn't be used--after all, she's just trying to distinguish something she sees, and that is the most obvious characteristic to use. As long as they are used in that context, and not derogatorily, I don't think there should be a problem using them.
FargoUT
Oh my, one time I was in a chat room, and I used the word Indian to describe a friend of mine. I was virtually torn apart. I tried Native American, but that didn't go over well at all.

The problem here is not the denotative meaning, but the connotative. We should be primary concerned with how the person is using the word, not the actual word itself. Hell, even "nigger" is acceptable to certain people. The movie "Cabin Fever" has a very funny joke about this word, although you have to wait an hour or so to get the punchline. It did prove a point though--words themselves do not create the problem. It is the emotion behind the word we should be concerned about.

I hear myself called fag, faggot, fudgepacker, pillow-biter, and all the other gay slang terms. And yet none of them offend me since the people saying them are almost always friends. The only time I am offended is when I can tell by inflection in a person's voice that they mean it in a mean-spirited fashion. So we really should be more concerned with the tone and spirit in which the words are used. Most people, especially nowadays, do not intend to be hateful or derogatory. It is the hearer who decides whether or not it is hateful. It doesn't simply come down to whether it is better to call blacks "black" or "African-American". Sure, it'd be great if we lived in a perfect world where labels didn't define us, but when describing characteristics, it's just going to occur. It's a result of the limitations of the English language (I do not know if this occurs in other cultures, but since this is America's Debate, I'll argue with regards to the English language).

When people call me a redhead, I doubt they are inferring that my head is red. Merely that my hair is red. Should I be offended then? I say, only if the person saying it intends it to be offensive.
EugLev
The difference is that when one looks at the definitions of the words BLACK and WHITE in the dictionary, black is closely related to evil, not knowledgeable, having lack of light, death and in general negative but contrary to this white has nothing but good meanings to it. So when a person is generalized by such words a subconscious mean could be placed into the words.
xgeographyx
I think that's grasping at threads, EugLev. Black, in the dictionary, is related to darkness because of it's relation to the night, which is dark and until the invention of electricity has been mysterious. Light, or white, takes it's word relation from the opposite, the day light when everything is illuminated.

Black and white, as defined by the dictionary or used in artistic themes seem, to me, unrelated to their racial counterparts.

On to the core of the question... if anything, unless the person has immigrated from Africa in their life time I find the term African-American as unacceptable as calling me a Russian-American, as I have no link to that culture other than distant lineage. If you are a citizen of this country you are a citizen. You are an American.

I find the differentiation between Americans and "African-Americans" as some sort of linguistic segregationism. However, when describing your appearance or the appearance of another, skin color is just another feature.

As stated above, redheads don't really have red heads as much as me being white doesn't mean I'm paper. wink2.gif

Though I would love to hear some non-white opinions in this thread! flowers.gif
UGA Boy
I;m just posting all over the place today, so if you see my name in another place, please don't think something like "I wish he would just leave" but getting back on subject...

Black and African American are two different things. I prefer to be called black because AA sounds uncomfortable to me. But in America if you are dark colored pretty much you are labeled black. I think AA has more to do with heritage whereas black has more to do with what American society is labeling you as. I think this is the reason that on race they ask you if you are "Black - Non Hispanic". Because it doesn't matter if you are mixed like Tiger Woods, or a dark-colored Hispanic or a Jamaican from the Islands: in America you are still black. Although none of these people would actually be African American (except maybe Tiger, but don't count on him saying it). thumbsup.gif
spedietbs
I have no problem being called white. If it were up to political correctness I would be considered Europian American as I am a decendant of a German mother and Italian father. So to me I still to this day say Black. I have a client who is Black, we breed race horses and when we talk about race I say black not African American and you know what he says Black too along with other blacks I know they also say the N word to each other but for them I guess that is OK. Now I would never say colored or the N word. But feel most blacks I know are not from Africa so why call them that.
I think political correctness and the media and goverment causes more racism through seperatism then does anyone else I know.
oneofshibumi
The term colored has been used since the 1700s and is now considered offensive. In the late 1950s the term Black replaced colored and is now the most frequently used term. By the close of the 1980’s African-American became widely used by leaders of the American Black community and social science scholars. The term African-American includes the concept of group-collectivism, a cultural studies concept describing certain behavioral patterns.


spedietbs wrote, “I have no problem being called white. If it were up to political correctness I would be considered Europian American as I am a decendant of a German mother and Italian father. So to me I still to this day say Black. I have a client who is Black, we breed race horses and when we talk about race I say black not African American and you know what he says Black too along with other blacks I know they also say the N word to each other but for them I guess that is OK. Now I would never say colored or the N word. But feel most blacks I know are not from Africa so why call them that.

I think political correctness and the media and goverment causes more racism through seperatism then does anyone else I know.”

RESPONSE: The term African American refers to a cultural concept, rather than color. European culture is strongly influenced by religious background. You mentioned your cultural background as German and Italian. Germans have always been a heterogeneous group, not unlike the Balkan cultures. In Europe, they were defined by region rather than by political boundaries. African from Africa, very infrequently refer to themselves as Africans. They use the term Nigerian, Ethiopian, Senegalian, etc. In the same way Europeans rarely call themselves Europeans, they call themselves English, Spanish, German, etc.

We are in disagreement about African Americans not being from Africa. African Americans still maintain many cultural behaviors from Africa, in the same way you still maintain many cultural behaviors from your German and Italian parents. I wonder which cultural tools did you maintain from your mother and what cultural tools did you maintain from your dad? For example, do you find it hard to express affection, anger, and emotion (German) or do you have a facility with emotions and are very expressive with your body (Italian)? Germans rarely blur the boundaries between nuclear and extended family that occurs in Italian families.


xgeographyx wrote, “I find the term African-American as unacceptable as calling me a Russian-American, as I have no link to that culture other than distant lineage.”

RESPONSE: We are in disagreement about culture and how it can be passed own over many generations. If your family line immigrated in-between 1918-to-1991 most likely you have Russian-Jewish influence. The new Russians are usually from the intellectual class. I wonder if you view suffering is not only a natural part of life, but it also has a certain redemptive value? Russians usually do. In the Russian lexicon of psychological pain, arguably the most important word is “toska” which connotes melancholy, depression, yearning, anguish, pangs of love, ennui, weariness, tedium, boredom, and nostalgia all rolled into one. Are you reluctant to discuss emotional suffering with outsiders? or Do you feel great deal of shame involved in divulging the family’s private matters?
Jaime
QUOTE(oneofshibumi @ Nov 10 2003, 03:31 AM)
I wonder if you view suffering is not only a natural part of life, but it also has a certain redemptive value? Russians usually do. In the Russian lexicon of psychological pain, arguably the most important word is “toska” which connotes melancholy, depression, yearning, anguish, pangs of love, ennui, weariness, tedium, boredom, and nostalgia all rolled into one. Are you reluctant to discuss emotional suffering with outsiders? or Do you feel great deal of shame involved in divulging the family’s private matters?

xgeographyx - please don't feel obligated to address these off-topic, blanket generalizations.

TOPIC REMINDER:
Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

P.S. oneofshibumi - if you would like to start a separate thread regarding your ideas, go ahead, as long as there is a clear question to debate. DO NOT take this one further off topic
Sleeper
My nextdoor neighbors are black or African American or whatever label the PC group has come up with lately.

My 3 year old son(almost 4) is best friends with their 4 year old son, and you know how he identifies him? Friend.

He has never asked me why his friend's color is darker than his. Because of my son and their son's friendship, I have become friends with the parents as well, because one or the other is always at each others house playing.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all continually keep looking at life through the eyes of a child.

My nextdoor neighbor is not black or African American. He is my friend.
180proof
Most of you maynever get a opportunity like this in your life, and it's to bad!

In close quarters' combat, everything becomes so clear, Brother,Sister,Freind! No color, no ethnic stereotypes and the way you look. Before I served ,I saw everyone as their color or ethnic background. Now I see Americans!




Black, African American,.....................................I prefer American,Freind, Brother or even sister!






mrsparkle.gif
Hugo
Did anybody else just watch Nightline? An "African-American" sent off for a DNA test that showed he was 0% African. He was mostly Indo-European and Native American.
Paul Doran
QUOTE(180proof @ Nov 22 2003, 05:44 AM)
Most of you maynever get a opportunity like this in your life, and it's to bad!

In close quarters' combat, everything becomes so clear, Brother,Sister,Freind! No color, no ethnic stereotypes and the way you look. Before I served ,I saw everyone as their color or ethnic background. Now I see Americans!




Black, African American,.....................................I prefer American,Freind, Brother or even sister!






mrsparkle.gif

smile.gif I agree, I have always wanted to attain the position of color blindness.

We must forget that what terms are acceptable change with vogues and with time.

I would however urge you 180proof, not to see Amercians, but to see merely fellow human beings smile.gif

Good ones, bad ones, rich ones, poor ones. all in Monochrome
clyde
I'm black. And I prefer being called black or just American.
TragicClown
African Americans/Blacks should call themselves whatever they find to be most politically empowering.

Black is probably better since it has civil rights roots, but not being black I wouldn't know which is better to identify with emotionally.
garymac
Why would anyone care what blacks want to be called? Refer to them as you wish. I really doubt a group of blacks have ever sat around debating what they should call normal people. The whole dash-American thing is silly. Either you are an American or you are not.
DreamPipEr
I believe that you should either call them Black or their country of origin. I, a white woman of European decent would not refer to myself as European-American. When in doubt, ask.... I don't think people would be offended.

An anecdotal story:
I used to work for a record label and when I first started working their I was surprised the head of the R&B department had SVP, Black Music as his title. I asked my co-worker, a black woman, about it, because I was surprised that the head of the R&B department had such a title. 1. it didn't reflect the name of the department and 2. wasn't it somewhat racist to have that as a title. Her response, when black music started it was R&B, the label just hadn't changed the name of the department, and this executive represented all "black" music. Other titles in the department did reflect the style of the music they represented, for example Director, Urban Music.
I then asked her if she preferred to be referred to as Black or African-American. Her response, Black or Jamaican. She said I'm not African, don't identify myself with Africa and I'm not American. I believe this label (after I left) changed the name of the department to Black Music.

edited for typo.
wanderer
Well, what defines an African-American?

Skin color?
Heritage?
Origin?

Why do I ask? This article I read from the Omaha World-Herald and this thread had me wondering;

Students disciplined for posters on King Day

Without further information though, I will withhold judgement though it seems the punishment they recieved might have been abit much from the information in the article.
Padraig_Pearse
The notion of WHTE is everybit as weird.

I'm a Celt - my skin is very smooth and very pale BUT I have never considered myself "White"

The Anglos only decided that wee bestial aborigenies would be white when it suited them to fight the dark-skinned people (Italians and Africans being near equal( to Mexicans)

WHAT?????

I remember a few years ago reading at he NYoRicans Poetry Slam on E 3rd Street in NYC - I stripped down to my underwear and kept throwing baby powder all over myself -

"Baby, Baby, I'm so white
Don't you see
I glow at night"


There are not many blacks or hispanics in this group to respond.................
kharizahur
brightest blessings to all!
hi, in my personal opinion, garnered from years of education in the social sciences, using color-coded racial signifiers (e.g. white, black, red, et.) maintains the hierarchical social order of our day because it relies so much on investing cosmetic appearance with total mythological, social, judical, psychological, and cultural meaning (and we all know who predominately does the investment). in the english language these colors come to us with centuries of cultural meaning, and as people of african descent we need to avoid anything that represents us as inferior, evil, sinful (like the color black signifies in english). if we want to get away from race, we have to STOP reinforcing it with racial categories - and begin moving towards cultural signifiers (like european american, african american, asian american) that point to ones predominant historical and contemporary geographic ancestry. i know, i know - its not the most perfect system but its a step in the right direction..... ph34r.gif
Billy Jean
Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?


I think it's ok to refer to African American's as Blacks. In fact, living in Georgia half my life, I've never come across a Black person who was insulted by that it or that insisted that they be referred to an African American.

Being a Native American myself and having relatives that live on reservations in Oklahoma, I can say that they wouldn't be partial to being called "Reds" or "Red Skins". In fact many tribes are offended by professional sports teams use of Native American icons.

http://aistm.org/1996mascot.articles.htm

http://stutzfamily.com/mrstutz/prejudice/logowebquest1.html
archer1958
Ok im 3/4 german and 1/4 cherokee indian. Should I refer to myself as a Geman Native Cherokee American Indian? My skin is white where the sun isnt regularly on it, other wise it is a classic Cherokee reddish brown. So on the other hand should I be refered to as a white and reddish brown American? My hair is also getting gray so maybe a salt and pepper American? Not much to look at either so maybe just a appearance challenged American? Or a combination of all the above?
For gosh sakes folks, Im just an American. Im mostly white so I put white for race when asked. Let the cops deal with the physical descriptions and just stick to we are all Americans. wacko.gif
Argonaut
QUOTE(archer1958 @ Feb 27 2004, 10:51 PM)
Ok im 3/4 german and 1/4 cherokee indian. Should I refer to myself as a Geman Native Cherokee American Indian? My skin is white where the sun isnt regularly on it, other wise it is a classic Cherokee reddish brown. So on the other hand should I be refered to as a white and reddish brown American? My hair is also getting gray so maybe a salt and pepper American? Not much to look at either so maybe just a appearance challenged American? Or a combination of all the above?
For gosh sakes folks, Im just an American. Im mostly white so I put white for race when asked. Let the cops deal with the physical descriptions and just stick to we are all Americans. wacko.gif

laugh.gif I'm quite a "mongrel" myself but I'm certainly not an albino and my skin color is not the same as that house the President lives in. An earlier poster suggested that using "(fill in the blank)- American" is a useful method of describing one's current characteristics based on the stereotyped "cultural" and "emotional" characteristics of one's ancestors. If, to what degree, and how far back that could possibly apply could be a topic for another thread and I'm not sure I would ever want to open up that "can" of conflicting "worms". laugh.gif

As to the question "Is it correct to refer to African Americans as Blacks?:

I would say that only if the human being in question had been born on the continent of Africa and was currently a citizen of the country commonly refered to as "America" (or "The United States of America" to be more precise), could you even begin to ask whether or not use of the word "black" is correct. Even then I would need to ask the question: "Correct according to whom?" hmmm.gif

What I find to be hypocritical is when anyone (regardless of their "race") insists on using the term "African-American" (presumably because they are offended by the term "Black" for whatever reasons), and then goes on to use the term "White" in the same breath. If you want to see and hear examples of what I'm talking about, just watch and listen to MTV, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, BET, PBS, LINKTV, Comedy Central, and just about any other network on television. Or anywhere else for that matter. laugh.gif
turnea
I've been known to engage in a bit of sematical argumention myself but... shifty.gif

The overwhelming unimportance of this issue is staggering. w00t.gif

Calling a caucasian white doesn't mean they are the color of eggshells, unless you're an interior decorator such levels of color precision are not needed. rolleyes.gif

It's a relative term, just like black, nothing to see here.

As for complaining that african-americans don't come from Africa. sleeping.gif

Come now, do you really expect even the most reasonable african-american to say:

"Oh gee, you know I'm not from Africa, I been misleading by friends all this time!

I never thought of it that way, thank you thought-police for reminding me I'm American first!" zipped.gif

Although it would make for a great Lifetime movie, in the real world it adds up to precisely, zilch.

Playing dumb, as though one does not know it refers to an american of African ancestry is a waste of time. The horrors of abbreviation... ph34r.gif

Don't call people what they don't like to be called unless actually necessary to acheive a laudable goal.

Most african-americn don't mind being called "black" so have at it.
Argonaut
QUOTE(turnea @ Feb 29 2004, 12:13 PM)
The overwhelming unimportance of this issue is staggering. w00t.gif

As for complaining that african-americans don't come from Africa. sleeping.gif

Come now, do you really expect even the most reasonable african-american to say:

"Oh gee, you know I'm not from Africa, I been misleading by friends all this time!

I never thought of it that way, thank you thought-police for reminding me I'm American first!"  zipped.gif




hmmm.gif Well turnea, please allow me to point out that I didn't bring up the question in the first place. But the question was asked and I can't see how anyone could discuss the correct words to use in any given situation without a little exercise in semantics ("the study of meanings"-Merriam-Webster Online). hmmm.gif

But I have never in my life "complained" that "african-americans don't come from africa." On the contrary, I have pointed out that people born in Africa who later move to America and become citizens are "African-Americans" and that they do indeed "come from Africa". thumbsup.gif

I can't speak to who you have been misleading since I don't presume to know what's in your thoughts, but I can assure you that I don't expect African-Americans to say anything! What should I expect people born in Africa who become American citizens to say? That might be construed as being predjudiced and stereotyping. Personally, I believe they are free to say whatever they wish! Just like any other human beings! Even those Americans who are born here.smile.gif

And while I can't know what's in your thoughts, I might ask what you mean by "thought-police"? Are those the people who determine "hate-crimes"? hmmm.gif

If some people do not like semantic exercises, then perhaps they should complain to the people who create the Orwellian "newspeak" in the first place and read the great book "1984" by George Orwell himself. thumbsup.gif
thegdin
QUOTE(EugLev @ Oct 7 2003, 06:02 AM)
Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

the term african american is in fact a false statement when used to describe black americans. to be an african american you need to first be born in africa. then made a citizen of america. i am of european descent, but i wasnt born there so i am not a european american.



with blacks whites or anyone else. i think its more important to focus on how you use a word rather than what word you use. no one word is inherently evil, but thoughts and intentions can be. that is why i am totally against any form of politcal correctness. the concept of political correctness, i believe, is just a way of controlling language, and since we think in language, it controls our minds.
JDCrabbyton
The last place I worked before I retired, there were two black guys there. We called one of them Jim, and the other one Jamie. It worked because that was their names.

The only time I referred to their race was if the subject of race came up and in those instances, I always referred to blacks as "colored."

It didn't seem to bother them any.

I think this whole rase issue is seriously overblown and I also think that Jesse Jackson and this Al Sharpton have about as much to do with that as anybody else.
UGA Boy
I dont think there will ever be a consensus. After 8 pages, it seems like people are saying the same thing over and over.

If there are 100 white people and me in a room, and someone says "the black guy" or "the African-American", I will respond.

I don't think it is all that important. What I DO think is important is that people don't get angry, because some people refer to us as African-American. What is there to be angry about? It is a description. Get over it.
american outlaw
I'll have to remember these white/black connotations next time I'm choosing a side in chess. I believe the terms are merely descriptive. If someone's talking about me they may call me blonde. The term is merely a description not a negative reference to my intellect (as is stereotypically associated with blondes). I only wish the nation could get over the fact that when we say white and black, nothing derogatory is meant.
Ms. Windrunner
QUOTE(EugLev @ Oct 7 2003, 01:53 PM)
The difference is that when one looks at the definitions of the words BLACK and WHITE in the dictionary, black is closely related to evil, not knowledgeable, having lack of light, death and in general negative but contrary to this white has nothing but good meanings to it.  So when a person is generalized by such words a subconscious mean could be placed into the words.

Ok so why is it nowadays the "blacks" call eachother "niggah" I believe that's a derrogitory term for "nigger". Isn't that a bad thing? Black people over time and time again have tried explaining why they call eachother this and they always tell me the same thing, "you wouldn't understand you're white." "It's a blacks only thing it's not hateful it's friendly," or something along the lines of that.

I think they're insane....
loreng59
Ms. Windrunner I concur.

The term African-American to me is a person the moved here from Africa, so I always as "which part?" I get some funny looks.

My father's best friend was from Haiti, had a very dark complexion. One of his grandfathers was French, so he was considered to be white in Haiti. When he came to Chicago he was told that he was black. I found it a very interesting turn of events.

Guess I will never be PC. Just one Israeli-American opinion.
Vermillion
QUOTE(Ms. Windrunner @ May 14 2004, 04:44 PM)

Ok so why is it nowadays the "blacks" call eachother "niggah" I believe that's a derrogitory term for "nigger". Isn't that a bad thing? Black people over time and time again have tried explaining why they call eachother this and they always tell me the same thing, "you wouldn't understand you're white." "It's a blacks only thing it's not hateful it's friendly," or something along the lines of that.

It's called appropriation of voice, and it happens all the time. A disenfranchised group starts takinjg over a derogatory name and legitimising it for themselves. By bringing it into their colloquia, and robbing it of its original meaning, they have taken over the term. For 'Nigger' the process is still underway.

Its commonplace. the Homosexual community took over the derogatory term Queer and now use it amongst themselves. A hundred years ago, the religious group known as the 'Society of friends' took over the derogatory term 'Quakers' for themselves and now nobody knows them by any other name.


English (as well as most languages) is a living language, changing constantly. Do NOT try and 'equalise' the language. Yes, Whites ace called Whites. Blacks are called Blacks or African-Americans. They are called this because it if the development of habit and the evolution of language. It is not 'Unfair' to call blacks African-American, and NOT call whites European-American.

I`m only 31, but even I remember when people from East Asia were called 'Orientals', now they are referred to as 'Asians'. Why? Who knows, but as long as nobody takes offence or minda, it is silly to go about trying to 'equalise' linguistic terms that are in practice no way unequal.
Inner City Blues
QUOTE(Vermillion @ May 14 2004, 01:53 PM)
QUOTE(Ms. Windrunner @ May 14 2004, 04:44 PM)

Ok so why is it nowadays the "blacks" call eachother "niggah" I believe that's a derrogitory term for "nigger". Isn't that a bad thing? Black people over time and time again have tried explaining why they call eachother this and they always tell me the same thing, "you wouldn't understand you're white." "It's a blacks only thing it's not hateful it's friendly," or something along the lines of that.

It's called appropriation of voice, and it happens all the time. A disenfranchised group starts takinjg over a derogatory name and legitimising it for themselves. By bringing it into their colloquia, and robbing it of its original meaning, they have taken over the term. For 'Nigger' the process is still underway.

Its commonplace. the Homosexual community took over the derogatory term Queer and now use it amongst themselves. A hundred years ago, the religious group known as the 'Society of friends' took over the derogatory term 'Quakers' for themselves and now nobody knows them by any other name.


English (as well as most languages) is a living language, changing constantly. Do NOT try and 'equalise' the language. Yes, Whites ace called Whites. Blacks are called Blacks or African-Americans. They are called this because it if the development of habit and the evolution of language. It is not 'Unfair' to call blacks African-American, and NOT call whites European-American.

I`m only 31, but even I remember when people from East Asia were called 'Orientals', now they are referred to as 'Asians'. Why? Who knows, but as long as nobody takes offence or minda, it is silly to go about trying to 'equalise' linguistic terms that are in practice no way unequal.

Vermillion, this is a breath of fresh air, if people cannot understand what you just wrote and put it into its social context, I don't think there's any chance of convincing them of anything but what they already believe. I personnaly don't use the term nigga, but I do understand why it is used. I probably don't use such a term because my parents aren't from this country.

As for African-American, I believe that it is different from a present day African coming to America. The descendants of African slaves do not have an established or well known origin, thus the continent Africa is takee to describe African-Americans or black people (it doesn't really matter what term you use). With current day Africans, they usually don't call themselves African-Americans, they say they family's from a particular African country and that's it. Now the other question that may come up, is a white African more African than an African-American? I would say no, because these terms are more for racial and ethnic origin. Plus many whites in Africa would refer to themselves as Afrikaans. But that's off-topic.
RancidAngel15
QUOTE(EugLev @ Oct 7 2003, 06:02 AM)
Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

Yes, I think it's okay to call African American people Black, unless that bothers them. It usually doesn't but if one individual happens to have a problem with it then I wouldn't in respect for them. Besides, they call anyone who isn't Hispanic, African American, and Asian "White". It's just another word that for them that isn't meant to have any kind of hateful meaning. And as for calling Asians Yellow, Hispanics brown, and Native Americans red, it all depends on who you talk to. I know a couple people who call Asians yellow and Native Americans red and Hispanics brown. So there you have it, the Black and White thing is just more popular.
Changes
QUOTE(EugLev @ Oct 7 2003, 12:02 AM)
If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

Since they (African Americans/Blacks), themselves, have affiliated the term to refer to themselves in critical events, it's is perfectly fine. There is Black History month, Black Music Awards, etc. I've never been informed by anyone that being called Black is offensive nor degrading. Native Americans, however, find it offensive if they're referred to as Red, or anything of that sort. I am Asian and personally find it offensive being referred to as 'Yellow'. I was shocked when someone called me that for the first time in my life at a store. More surprising, it was someone working at the store.
cgorham
QUOTE(Ms. Windrunner @ May 14 2004, 04:44 PM)
Ok so why is it nowadays the "blacks" call eachother "niggah" I believe that's a derrogitory term for "nigger". Isn't that a bad thing? Black people over time and time again have tried explaining why they call eachother this and they always tell me the same thing, "you wouldn't understand you're white." "It's a blacks only thing it's not hateful it's friendly," or something along the lines of that.

I think they're insane....

Not all blacks refer themselves as niggers. That is one of many misperception some non-blacks seem to think about us. I am a black man. The term black does not offend me in anyway. For the most part, it doesn't bother a lot of other black people either. I would say you 've been talking to some ignorant black people because nobody I know uses that term.

Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

I personally see nothing wrong referring African Americans as "black". The problem however with most labels such as "colored" & "niggers" for example came at a time where all black people were being treated less than equal in this country. A lot of blacks cannot stand to hear white people in this country talk about America's so-called great history and heroes such as Abe Lincoln and George Washington, Christopher Columbus etc.

Looking back on America's history for us is like looking back at the dark days. There is nothing to glorify but hypocrisy. That is why sometimes hearing the terms niggers and colored today from non-blacks especially a white person seems offensive to us because of the treatment we received in Americas past time and even today.

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

I can't say it is my right to call Native Americans Red or Hispanic's Brown because I'm not them. Let them tell us what to call them. Who is America to call certain ethic groups names when their record on racism in this country is pathetic.

One last thing. It is true what most blacks say: YOU HAVE TO BE BLACK TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEMS WE DEAL WITH. SOME PROBLEMS WE DO SHARE.
BUT FOR THE MOST PART ONLY BLACK PEOPLE CAN RELATE .
Inner City Blues
I don't think the term really matters, though I would prefer black because African American is very specific in that you're usually referring to descendats of slaves and not blacks from the Caribbean, Latin America, and interestingly enough Africa.

But I still don't care, it's what the group accepts. They don't mind being called black.

The one thing I find stupid is that people get angry because black people can say nigga and white people can't. However, you're not paying attention to the context of the word when comparing how blacks use it and whites used it. Two very different things and that's why blacks get offended if a white person uses the term, because when whites used it, it was to demean people.

I think another problem is that white people see black comedians making racial jokes and want to do the same, but they don't see the social commentary that is really the underlying theme. It's not just about making racial jokes. However, I think it's evident when a black comedian is just making racial jokes for the sake of making racial jokes and they're not funny at all. BET Comic View racial jokes are not funny, especially when compared to the racial jokes of people like Chris Rock.
Lethalletha
QUOTE(cgorham @ Jul 11 2004, 07:31 AM)
QUOTE(Ms. Windrunner @ May 14 2004, 04:44 PM)
Ok so why is it nowadays the "blacks" call eachother "niggah" I believe that's a derrogitory term for "nigger". Isn't that a bad thing? Black people over time and time again have tried explaining why they call eachother this and they always tell me the same thing, "you wouldn't understand you're white." "It's a blacks only thing it's not hateful it's friendly," or something along the lines of that.

I think they're insane....

Not all blacks refer themselves as niggers. That is one of many misperception some non-blacks seem to think about us. I am a black man. The term black does not offend me in anyway. For the most part, it doesn't bother a lot of other black people either. I would say you 've been talking to some ignorant black people because nobody I know uses that term.

Is it correct to refer to African American’s as Blacks?

I personally see nothing wrong referring African Americans as "black". The problem however with most labels such as "colored" & "niggers" for example came at a time where all black people were being treated less than equal in this country. A lot of blacks cannot stand to hear white people in this country talk about America's so-called great history and heroes such as Abe Lincoln and George Washington, Christopher Columbus etc.

Looking back on America's history for us is like looking back at the dark days. There is nothing to glorify but hypocrisy. That is why sometimes hearing the terms niggers and colored today from non-blacks especially a white person seems offensive to us because of the treatment we received in Americas past time and even today.

If so why not call Native American’s Red, Hispanic American’s Brown and Asian American Yellow?

I can't say it is my right to call Native Americans Red or Hispanic's Brown because I'm not them. Let them tell us what to call them. Who is America to call certain ethic groups names when their record on racism in this country is pathetic.

One last thing. It is true what most blacks say: YOU HAVE TO BE BLACK TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEMS WE DEAL WITH. SOME PROBLEMS WE DO SHARE.
BUT FOR THE MOST PART ONLY BLACK PEOPLE CAN RELATE .

QUOTE
A lot of blacks cannot stand to hear white people in this country talk about America's so-called great history and heroes such as Abe Lincoln and George Washington, Christopher Columbus etc.



Just curious, why would the black community not like Abe Lincoln?

Also curious if most of black America knows that the original declaration outlawed slavery?(Something that I probably heard, but didn't pay much atttention when I was in school, many, many, years ago) It was kept in, so that ALL 13 colonies would support the declaration. In hindsight, that was a bad idea, but just maybe, it could be looked upon as blacks doing more than any other race to make this a county??
cgorham
QUOTE(Lethalletha @ Jul 11 2004, 08:04 PM)
Just curious, why would the black community not like Abe Lincoln?

Also curious if most of black America knows that the original declaration outlawed slavery?(Something that I probably heard, but didn't pay much atttention when I was in school, many, many, years ago) It was kept in, so that ALL 13 colonies would support the declaration. In hindsight, that was a bad idea, but just maybe, it could be looked upon as blacks doing more than any other race to make this a county??

I think the question is, why would the black community accept any white American from that pastime. No one (not all) seemed to care we were treated less than equal.

Its funny, we talk all time about how terrorists want to take our freedoms away and Americans have a history of doing exactly the same thing.

Blacks have done more than their share to help this country because of the pain and sacrifice my ancestors have made to give us our freedoms and civil rights. The Constitution states that "all men are created equal". Yet it took America years and years to understand that and even today it is a struggle. The problem
wasn't slavery or the fight to end slavery, it is the evil mindset of men back in those days who look upon blacks as animals instead of human beings.

Simply because the color of our skin we were hated. Animals have more compassion and common sense than those people. And yet, most men back in those days acted just like vicious animals all because blacks wanted to be treated equal. That is why you have to be BLACK to understand.
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