Full Version: Democracy in Saudia Arabia?
QUOTE
Saudi Arabia, an absolute monarchy, has announced it will hold its first council elections in a move seen as the kingdom's first real political reform.
The government decided to "widen the participation of citizens in running local affairs through elections", the state news agency SPA reported.
Half the members of future councils will be elected under the reform.
The kingdom has never had any elections at any level since its creation under the Saud dynasty in 1932.
The council elections are to be held within a year, SPA added.
The announcement comes as Saudi Arabia opens its first ever conference on human rights on Monday, in the capital, Riyadh.
Academics and human rights activists from around the world are attending the two-day event.
The BBC's Middle East analyst, Roger Hardy, reports from Riyadh that the conference, entitled "Human rights in peace and war", is being prominently reported in the country.
The government decided to "widen the participation of citizens in running local affairs through elections", the state news agency SPA reported.
Half the members of future councils will be elected under the reform.
The kingdom has never had any elections at any level since its creation under the Saud dynasty in 1932.
The council elections are to be held within a year, SPA added.
The announcement comes as Saudi Arabia opens its first ever conference on human rights on Monday, in the capital, Riyadh.
Academics and human rights activists from around the world are attending the two-day event.
The BBC's Middle East analyst, Roger Hardy, reports from Riyadh that the conference, entitled "Human rights in peace and war", is being prominently reported in the country.
Saudis announce first elections
Is it time to start counting human rights chickens?
That is to say (without the silly metaphor) is this the first step towards seeing significant democracy in Saudi Arabia?
If not, what is it?
Might this have anything to do with behind-the-scenes US pressure?
I'll believe it when i see it with my own 2 eyes. I don't expect them to be fair. More like rigged. The royals wouldn't want to lose what huge power they have. Women won't be able to vote i bet. So much for fair elections right their
What great news!!
is this the first step towards seeing significant democracy in Saudi Arabia?
I believe so. After the events of 9/11 and the bombing in Saudi, I think the monarchs realize they have a HUGE problem on their hands and the only way to stop this spiraling is to include the Saudi people in their future. The days of monarchs is over.
Might this have anything to do with behind-the-scenes US pressure?
I am sure of it. I am just as sure that it has to do with what happened in Iraq. This political change in the ME was predicted by many. Forecasters said removing Saddam would start a ripple effect.
Iran is not far behind. Hurray for the people of Saudi and other ME countries who are coming into their own, finally!
is this the first step towards seeing significant democracy in Saudi Arabia?
I believe so. After the events of 9/11 and the bombing in Saudi, I think the monarchs realize they have a HUGE problem on their hands and the only way to stop this spiraling is to include the Saudi people in their future. The days of monarchs is over.
Might this have anything to do with behind-the-scenes US pressure?
I am sure of it. I am just as sure that it has to do with what happened in Iraq. This political change in the ME was predicted by many. Forecasters said removing Saddam would start a ripple effect.
Iran is not far behind. Hurray for the people of Saudi and other ME countries who are coming into their own, finally!
if they're headed towards democratizing, then it was GOOD pressure. bravo. As a region goes, democracy, rather than authoritarianism's less than stellar human rights philosophy gets high praises from me.
QUOTE(Beladonna @ Oct 13 2003, 11:23 AM)
Might this have anything to do with behind-the-scenes US pressure?
I am sure of it. I am just as sure that it has to do with what happened in Iraq. This political change in the ME was predicted by many. Forecasters said removing Saddam would start a ripple effect.
Iran is not far behind. Hurray for the people of Saudi and other ME countries who are coming into their own, finally!
I am sure of it. I am just as sure that it has to do with what happened in Iraq. This political change in the ME was predicted by many. Forecasters said removing Saddam would start a ripple effect.
Iran is not far behind. Hurray for the people of Saudi and other ME countries who are coming into their own, finally!
I doubt it does. The Royals are trying to win a PR campaign after the beating they took from the 9/11 report's aftermath.
Iran, i can believe because of the massive protests and demands of reforms
QUOTE(goamerica @ Oct 13 2003, 11:43 AM)
I doubt it does. The Royals are trying to win a PR campaign after the beating they took from the 9/11 report's aftermath.
That in and of itself can be called US pressure, can't it?
This is a fascinating turn of events.
The local councils already exist, of course, but all of the participants have been appointed by monarchy. Moving to have half of all the seats elected now, is a big step for the Saudis.
There may well have been some pressure put on by the US, but I think more than a fair share of this pressure has come from their own people. The government has been supporting true private sector growth and the privatization of electricity, water, and telecom for about 15 years now, to help reduce the need for oil to be their only income. Sounds like the the people are beginning to demand that they have a say in how it happens, at least in their local areas.
The other part of this is that, as the article points out, there are a lot of liberal and moderate islamists who are extremely disturbed over the way the hard liners have been doing things. Particularly in light of the fact that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. I believe, while the hard-liners may not like us being there, the moderates are able to see the value of our bases being a moderating influence in the region.
As to the human rights conference, that one is even more interesting, as they will be discussing the rights of women and children in society. It's going to be interesting to see what comes out of this, if anything. At least discussing it is a step in the right direction.
The local councils already exist, of course, but all of the participants have been appointed by monarchy. Moving to have half of all the seats elected now, is a big step for the Saudis.
There may well have been some pressure put on by the US, but I think more than a fair share of this pressure has come from their own people. The government has been supporting true private sector growth and the privatization of electricity, water, and telecom for about 15 years now, to help reduce the need for oil to be their only income. Sounds like the the people are beginning to demand that they have a say in how it happens, at least in their local areas.
The other part of this is that, as the article points out, there are a lot of liberal and moderate islamists who are extremely disturbed over the way the hard liners have been doing things. Particularly in light of the fact that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. I believe, while the hard-liners may not like us being there, the moderates are able to see the value of our bases being a moderating influence in the region.
As to the human rights conference, that one is even more interesting, as they will be discussing the rights of women and children in society. It's going to be interesting to see what comes out of this, if anything. At least discussing it is a step in the right direction.
QUOTE(turnea @ Oct 13 2003, 11:46 AM)
QUOTE(goamerica @ Oct 13 2003, 11:43 AM)
I doubt it does. The Royals are trying to win a PR campaign after the beating they took from the 9/11 report's aftermath.
That in and of itself can be called US pressure, can't it?
No. U.S. pressure would be something like: "Start free elections, Saudi Arabia"
The PR campaign is just them trying to suck up
QUOTE(goamerica @ Oct 13 2003, 03:52 PM)
No. U.S. pressure would be something like: "Start free elections, Saudi Arabia"
The PR campaign is just them trying to suck up
The PR campaign is just them trying to suck up
Do you have any support for this? You should know by now that no one wants to debate one-liners. PLEASE STOP.
It is speculative to conclude this is happening due to the United States. It is much more logical to conclude this is a response to the environment within the country.
It is a step on a long trip which is a good one.
It is a step on a long trip which is a good one.
Well, if anything of true substance becomes of it, then it is great news. I will hold my horses until then, but I can't say that I'm not hopeful. Hopefully this will work out well, because a ripple effect seems likely if Saudi Arabia (a VERY big fish in a relatively small pond) can lead the way. Democracy is just too appealing to be ignored by people, they just have to see it in action first...
Perhaps. But since it was our tax dollars that went towards the U.S. effort, and because we'll never really know for sure, let's just assume that the U.S. effort had a good effect on this so we get a sense that our money wasn't wasted.
QUOTE
It is speculative to conclude this is happening due to the United States. It is much more logical to conclude this is a response to the environment within the country.
It is a step on a long trip which is a good one.
It is a step on a long trip which is a good one.
Perhaps. But since it was our tax dollars that went towards the U.S. effort, and because we'll never really know for sure, let's just assume that the U.S. effort had a good effect on this so we get a sense that our money wasn't wasted.
I'm going to wait and see what happens. If the elections happen its a move in the right direction.
QUOTE(American Citizen @ Oct 14 2003, 05:13 PM)
I'm going to wait and see what happens. If the elections happen its a move in the right direction.
But it depends on who participates in the election. Will women get a chance? They can't even drive a car. So what makes you think that they will be able to vote. To fairness there. It's like they are trying to make a foward step, but in doing so, they are standing still.
Hmm. I wondering just how the candidates will be selected. If it's a choice betwen Prince Ibn Saud and Prince Abu bin Saud, then I don't see that it will be worth much, whether women get to vote or not.
On the other hand, if the candidates are freely selected, the electorate includes all citizens (or even all male citizens - were America and Europe not democratic until women got the vote?), and ballots are secret, then I think it will be the first tentative steps towards genuine democracy, and I will applaud it.
Let's not let the best be the enemy of the good, eh goamerica?
On the other hand, if the candidates are freely selected, the electorate includes all citizens (or even all male citizens - were America and Europe not democratic until women got the vote?), and ballots are secret, then I think it will be the first tentative steps towards genuine democracy, and I will applaud it.
Let's not let the best be the enemy of the good, eh goamerica?
This is a simplified version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.