Full Version: Malaysia Urges Muslims to Unite Vs. Jews
Well the Israelis have been waging a war against the Muslims for years, but when a Muslim steps up and trys to rally each other to from a different POV then the Jewish christian one he gets blasted, while you ignore all this misdeeds we and our allies do. Like RAFAH! for the past week Israelis have been leveling the town and killing its citizens but there are no AMERICAN news reports, except two lines at the end of an article about something else! Yet one Muslim just says something bad and the entire country is already trying to justify another war by linking him to Bin Laden and Hitler!
QUOTE(Rev_DelFuego @ Oct 18 2003, 01:52 PM)
Well the Israelis have been waging a war against the Muslims for years, but when a Muslim steps up and trys to rally each other to from a different POV then the Jewish christian one he gets blasted, while you ignore all this misdeeds we and our allies do. Like RAFAH! for the past week Israelis have been leveling the town and killing its citizens but there are no AMERICAN news reports, except two lines at the end of an article about something else! Yet one Muslim just says something bad and the entire country is already trying to justify another war by linking him to Bin Laden and Hitler!
Last time I checked Israel Was surrounded by Muslim countries(except for water on the west). Spin all you like Rev, no matter how you try and sugar coat it these were hostile words to make Muslims rise up against Jews and Israel.
If you agree with his words, hey no big deal. But don't try to spin it as to say it was no big deal.
The PM did not backtrack on his statements yesterday, he defined them even further, (I am paraphrasing, I have not been able to find yesterdays news clippings on this one)- that violence, terroristic violence especially, is bad, but that it is also a double standard that he can not critisize the jews in the same tone/comments as muslims are critisized without setting off a storm, and then made sure and say that this was not an apology in any way.
QUOTE
Well the Israelis have been waging a war against the Muslims for years, but when a Muslim steps up and trys to rally each other to from a different POV then the Jewish christian one he gets blasted
blag.
First off I thought Jews and Christians did NOT share the same views ?
Second thing...have you ever heard of the diaspora? This conflict has been going on for centuries..not years.... centuries.
I do not think the Israelis get a free ride from the western world at all. There is much criticism against their policy even within Israel themselves.
I myself do not even agree with Israels current approach with the Palestinians.
I see no point in continuing this debate because how can I argue that Jews or even Israelis for that matter have the same varying reactions, feelings and perceptions to this topic as any other human when you will not even allow the human condition of free will and thought to apply to an entire group of people.
An interesting interview.......
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:07 am Post subject:
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EDITED TO REMOVE ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT. Do not post fully copyrited materials - see the rules for futher info (plus, we're all perfectly capable of clicking links
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:07 am Post subject:
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QUOTE
http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/politi...rticle_1426.asp
Interview: Syed Hamid Albar
October 19, 2003
Reporter :Jana Wendt
There was widespread outrage this week at remarks made by retiring Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohamad. The often controversial leader accused the Jews of ruling the world by proxy, and urged Muslims to rise up against them at the Organisation of the Islamic Conference in Malaysia. While John Howard described the comment as repugnant, Dr Mahathir's Foreign Minister, Syed Hamid Albar, says his leader was quoted out of context. Syed Hamid Albar spoke to Jana Wendt from Kuala Lumpur ...
Transcript
JANA WENDT: There was widespread outrage this week at remarks made by retiring Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammed. The often-controversial leader accused Jews of ruling the world by proxy, and urged Moslems to rise up against them.
DR MAHATHIR MOHAMMED: [Excerpt.] The Europeans killed six million Jews, out of twelve million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them. [Excerpt ends.]
JANA WENDT: While John Howard described the comment as repugnant, Dr Mahathir’s Foreign Minister says his leader was quoted out of context. Syed Hamid Albar joined us from Kuala Lumpur.
Syed Hamid Albar, thank you very much for joining us. Your Prime Minister’s remarks have created a storm around the world. Do you feel you should apologise for them?
MALAYSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER SYED HAMID ALBAR: I don’t think so. I think a lot of problems that arise in the world is brought about because of misunderstanding, and because of failure to look deeply into what he really said. So I think it is unfortunate that there is so much misunderstanding, and I think when one look at issues from the perspective of history, you must give the person the freedom to exercise his thoughts. And I think this is very important, and don’t get emotional or over-reacting to something and try to create a storm when there is no storm at all.
Interview: Syed Hamid Albar
October 19, 2003
Reporter :Jana Wendt
There was widespread outrage this week at remarks made by retiring Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohamad. The often controversial leader accused the Jews of ruling the world by proxy, and urged Muslims to rise up against them at the Organisation of the Islamic Conference in Malaysia. While John Howard described the comment as repugnant, Dr Mahathir's Foreign Minister, Syed Hamid Albar, says his leader was quoted out of context. Syed Hamid Albar spoke to Jana Wendt from Kuala Lumpur ...
Transcript
JANA WENDT: There was widespread outrage this week at remarks made by retiring Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammed. The often-controversial leader accused Jews of ruling the world by proxy, and urged Moslems to rise up against them.
DR MAHATHIR MOHAMMED: [Excerpt.] The Europeans killed six million Jews, out of twelve million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them. [Excerpt ends.]
JANA WENDT: While John Howard described the comment as repugnant, Dr Mahathir’s Foreign Minister says his leader was quoted out of context. Syed Hamid Albar joined us from Kuala Lumpur.
Syed Hamid Albar, thank you very much for joining us. Your Prime Minister’s remarks have created a storm around the world. Do you feel you should apologise for them?
MALAYSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER SYED HAMID ALBAR: I don’t think so. I think a lot of problems that arise in the world is brought about because of misunderstanding, and because of failure to look deeply into what he really said. So I think it is unfortunate that there is so much misunderstanding, and I think when one look at issues from the perspective of history, you must give the person the freedom to exercise his thoughts. And I think this is very important, and don’t get emotional or over-reacting to something and try to create a storm when there is no storm at all.
EDITED TO REMOVE ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT. Do not post fully copyrited materials - see the rules for futher info (plus, we're all perfectly capable of clicking links
). If you care to discuss the moderation of this forum, please do it by PM or in Comments & Suggestions. No need to take this thread off topic.
I appreciate the full transcript but in the future you should only post an excerpt and provide a link for other users to follow. This was you have room to weigh in with your own opinions instead of merely transcribing someone else's.
QUOTE(Rev_DelFuego @ Oct 16 2003, 10:04 AM)
Look at it this way. 1.6 BILLION without a voice in international affairs and some without a voice in their own country. (Iraq 
) The have no voice in the UN due to the fact that the three permanent seats belong to Judea - Christian societies, and they Veto anything pro Muslim. (for instance Israel) Or they totally ignore the UN opinion and wage a war by forming a "coalition" by bribing (Turkey), Guilting (Saudi Arabia), or threatening (Pakistan) muslim nations to join in. If you think Iraqis have any say in Iraq now than before read here too find out what one Iraqi thinks about the governing council.
Then look at how we cater to the Jewish population. Just because of the Holocaust we give Israel 16 million dollars a day when the US had no direct responsibility, while we don't give anything to the black for using them as slaves, which in my opinion is far worse than death. I had no part in it so why should I and the everyday hurting taxpayer pay for restitution.
Now are media is geared to show muslims killing us and our allies and label them as heathens. They don't ever show the American, Israeli, or allied troops breaking into houses pull out the women without their headdress, looting, and pointing guns. Or just bulldozing entire blocks in the case of Israelis. When the strike back using unconventional warfare you label them terrorists. Tell me if Muslims are so violent tell me when was the last time you saw one on TV standing on trial for murder. These people are so oppressed that they are trying to fight back with any means necessary, and when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
) The have no voice in the UN due to the fact that the three permanent seats belong to Judea - Christian societies, and they Veto anything pro Muslim. (for instance Israel) Or they totally ignore the UN opinion and wage a war by forming a "coalition" by bribing (Turkey), Guilting (Saudi Arabia), or threatening (Pakistan) muslim nations to join in. If you think Iraqis have any say in Iraq now than before read here too find out what one Iraqi thinks about the governing council. Then look at how we cater to the Jewish population. Just because of the Holocaust we give Israel 16 million dollars a day when the US had no direct responsibility, while we don't give anything to the black for using them as slaves, which in my opinion is far worse than death. I had no part in it so why should I and the everyday hurting taxpayer pay for restitution.
Now are media is geared to show muslims killing us and our allies and label them as heathens. They don't ever show the American, Israeli, or allied troops breaking into houses pull out the women without their headdress, looting, and pointing guns. Or just bulldozing entire blocks in the case of Israelis. When the strike back using unconventional warfare you label them terrorists. Tell me if Muslims are so violent tell me when was the last time you saw one on TV standing on trial for murder. These people are so oppressed that they are trying to fight back with any means necessary, and when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
Those are excellent points
, and I couldn’t voice my opinion better. Though I would like to say that the Prime Ministers comments could have been more tactful. It does not help Muslims when comments like that are made, especially post 9/11. Though I sense a lot of frustration in his words, and can very much understand that.
QUOTE
1.6 BILLION without a voice in international affairs and some without a voice in their own country. (Iraq ) The have no voice in the UN due to the fact that the three permanent seats belong to Judea - Christian societies, and they Veto anything pro Muslim.
the 1.6 billion live for the most part under Islamic rule, if they are not heard it is by the hand of their own Muslim leaders and Mullahs, no one else's. the 5 permanent members vote pro-Muslim? did you mean pro-Israel? what DO you mean?
QUOTE
(for instance Israel) Or they totally ignore the UN opinion and wage a war by forming a "coalition" by bribing (Turkey), Guilting (Saudi Arabia), or threatening (Pakistan) muslim nations to join in. If you think Iraqis have any say in Iraq now than before read here too find out what one Iraqi thinks about the governing council.
"Bribing" "Guilting" "threatening" are these how you see the processes of negotiation?
QUOTE
Then look at how we cater to the Jewish population. Just because of the Holocaust we give Israel 16 million dollars a day when the US had no direct responsibility, while we don't give anything to the black for using them as slaves, which in my opinion is far worse than death. I had no part in it so why should I and the everyday hurting taxpayer pay for restitution.
not sure what this all has to do with the debate.QUOTE
Now are media is geared to show muslims killing us and our allies
But aren't they? the christians, hindus, buddhists, aren't doing the killing are they? Isn't the media supposed to report? QUOTE
They don't ever show the American, Israeli, or allied troops breaking into houses pull out the women without their headdress, looting, and pointing guns. Or just bulldozing entire blocks in the case of Israelis
So then we are the heathens and murders? QUOTE
When the strike back using unconventional warfare you label them terrorists. Tell me if Muslims are so violent tell me when was the last time you saw one on TV standing on trial for murder.
They usually are very good at blowing themselves up first which leaves no one to bring to trial. QUOTE
These people are so oppressed
which people? Saudi Arabian Muslims? Iranian Muslims, Syrian Muslims, who were the Iraqi Muslims oppressed by, pre-war? Afghanis, pre-war? And whose to blame for their oppression?
QUOTE
when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
No, I believe he was labeled as taking a very divisive, anti-semitic stance. Similar, unfortunately, in rhetoric to OBL. This stance hardly promotes a chance for peace.
QUOTE(Awer9 @ Oct 22 2003, 09:27 PM)
QUOTE(Rev_DelFuego @ Oct 16 2003, 10:04 AM)
Look at it this way. 1.6 BILLION without a voice in international affairs and some without a voice in their own country. (Iraq ) The have no voice in the UN due to the fact that the three permanent seats belong to Judea - Christian societies, and they Veto anything pro Muslim. (for instance Israel) Or they totally ignore the UN opinion and wage a war by forming a "coalition" by bribing (Turkey), Guilting (Saudi Arabia), or threatening (Pakistan) muslim nations to join in. If you think Iraqis have any say in Iraq now than before read here too find out what one Iraqi thinks about the governing council.
Then look at how we cater to the Jewish population. Just because of the Holocaust we give Israel 16 million dollars a day when the US had no direct responsibility, while we don't give anything to the black for using them as slaves, which in my opinion is far worse than death. I had no part in it so why should I and the everyday hurting taxpayer pay for restitution.
Now are media is geared to show muslims killing us and our allies and label them as heathens. They don't ever show the American, Israeli, or allied troops breaking into houses pull out the women without their headdress, looting, and pointing guns. Or just bulldozing entire blocks in the case of Israelis. When the strike back using unconventional warfare you label them terrorists. Tell me if Muslims are so violent tell me when was the last time you saw one on TV standing on trial for murder. These people are so oppressed that they are trying to fight back with any means necessary, and when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
) The have no voice in the UN due to the fact that the three permanent seats belong to Judea - Christian societies, and they Veto anything pro Muslim. (for instance Israel) Or they totally ignore the UN opinion and wage a war by forming a "coalition" by bribing (Turkey), Guilting (Saudi Arabia), or threatening (Pakistan) muslim nations to join in. If you think Iraqis have any say in Iraq now than before read here too find out what one Iraqi thinks about the governing council. Then look at how we cater to the Jewish population. Just because of the Holocaust we give Israel 16 million dollars a day when the US had no direct responsibility, while we don't give anything to the black for using them as slaves, which in my opinion is far worse than death. I had no part in it so why should I and the everyday hurting taxpayer pay for restitution.
Now are media is geared to show muslims killing us and our allies and label them as heathens. They don't ever show the American, Israeli, or allied troops breaking into houses pull out the women without their headdress, looting, and pointing guns. Or just bulldozing entire blocks in the case of Israelis. When the strike back using unconventional warfare you label them terrorists. Tell me if Muslims are so violent tell me when was the last time you saw one on TV standing on trial for murder. These people are so oppressed that they are trying to fight back with any means necessary, and when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
Those are excellent points
, and I couldn’t voice my opinion better. Though I would like to say that the Prime Ministers comments could have been more tactful. It does not help Muslims when comments like that are made, especially post 9/11. Though I sense a lot of frustration in his words, and can very much understand that. But does he care about how he makes people see muslims now? He thinks that all Muslims will rise up against the Great Satan/Infidels/Jews now that he has said that Jews control the world, though i don't think many muslims will listen to him and declare him another babbling idiot who speaks Osama's language, which is irrelavent to some in it's self.
QUOTE
These people are so oppressed that they are trying to fight back with any means necessary, and and when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
That's because he probably is a terrorist. The man is rallying muslims by saying something that isn't true. That statement sounds like We are oppressing them when we are not. Did we oppress Pre-war Afghanis? Did we tell the Taliban to beat women who laughed or smiled? Nope. These people are fighting back because they were told that we were evil and it was burned into their brains.
QUOTE(goamerica @ Oct 22 2003, 08:22 PM)
QUOTE(Awer9 @ Oct 22 2003, 09:27 PM)
QUOTE(Rev_DelFuego @ Oct 16 2003, 10:04 AM)
Look at it this way. 1.6 BILLION without a voice in international affairs and some without a voice in their own country. (Iraq ) The have no voice in the UN due to the fact that the three permanent seats belong to Judea - Christian societies, and they Veto anything pro Muslim. (for instance Israel) Or they totally ignore the UN opinion and wage a war by forming a "coalition" by bribing (Turkey), Guilting (Saudi Arabia), or threatening (Pakistan) muslim nations to join in. If you think Iraqis have any say in Iraq now than before read here too find out what one Iraqi thinks about the governing council.
Then look at how we cater to the Jewish population. Just because of the Holocaust we give Israel 16 million dollars a day when the US had no direct responsibility, while we don't give anything to the black for using them as slaves, which in my opinion is far worse than death. I had no part in it so why should I and the everyday hurting taxpayer pay for restitution.
Now are media is geared to show muslims killing us and our allies and label them as heathens. They don't ever show the American, Israeli, or allied troops breaking into houses pull out the women without their headdress, looting, and pointing guns. Or just bulldozing entire blocks in the case of Israelis. When the strike back using unconventional warfare you label them terrorists. Tell me if Muslims are so violent tell me when was the last time you saw one on TV standing on trial for murder. These people are so oppressed that they are trying to fight back with any means necessary, and when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
) The have no voice in the UN due to the fact that the three permanent seats belong to Judea - Christian societies, and they Veto anything pro Muslim. (for instance Israel) Or they totally ignore the UN opinion and wage a war by forming a "coalition" by bribing (Turkey), Guilting (Saudi Arabia), or threatening (Pakistan) muslim nations to join in. If you think Iraqis have any say in Iraq now than before read here too find out what one Iraqi thinks about the governing council. Then look at how we cater to the Jewish population. Just because of the Holocaust we give Israel 16 million dollars a day when the US had no direct responsibility, while we don't give anything to the black for using them as slaves, which in my opinion is far worse than death. I had no part in it so why should I and the everyday hurting taxpayer pay for restitution.
Now are media is geared to show muslims killing us and our allies and label them as heathens. They don't ever show the American, Israeli, or allied troops breaking into houses pull out the women without their headdress, looting, and pointing guns. Or just bulldozing entire blocks in the case of Israelis. When the strike back using unconventional warfare you label them terrorists. Tell me if Muslims are so violent tell me when was the last time you saw one on TV standing on trial for murder. These people are so oppressed that they are trying to fight back with any means necessary, and when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
Those are excellent points
, and I couldn’t voice my opinion better. Though I would like to say that the Prime Ministers comments could have been more tactful. It does not help Muslims when comments like that are made, especially post 9/11. Though I sense a lot of frustration in his words, and can very much understand that. But does he care about how he makes people see muslims now? He thinks that all Muslims will rise up against the Great Satan/Infidels/Jews now that he has said that Jews control the world, though i don't think many muslims will listen to him and declare him another babbling idiot who speaks Osama's language, which is irrelavent to some in it's self.
QUOTE
These people are so oppressed that they are trying to fight back with any means necessary, and and when one stands up to encourage the Muslims to get together and provide a voice and force that different from the American Judea - Christian views you label him a Terrorist.
That's because he probably is a terrorist. The man is rallying muslims by saying something that isn't true. That statement sounds like We are oppressing them when we are not. Did we oppress Pre-war Afghanis? Did we tell the Taliban to beat women who laughed or smiled? Nope. These people are fighting back because they were told that we were evil and it was burned into their brains.
The Prime Ministers Comments were tasteful, and were rife with anti-Semitic comments. Though I still do not think his message was “to go out and kill Jews,” or that America is the ‘Great Satan.’ Not all Muslims hate America and that is why I wish he would have been careful with his words (But yes I know that Prime Minister has a history of out spoken comments). He is giving Muslims a bad name, however I think it goes to far to call him a terrorist.
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