http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world...ofthefallen.htm

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/

As the White House postures and the media manipulates and the politicians pontificate, it seems to me that we're forgetting our troops are still dying in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There are a few websites that are trying to remind us that it's not just two or three or four American soldiers getting killed in Iraq. These were real human beings who liked football on weekends, had wives, children and loved ones at home and lived and breathed.

They aren't just numbers in a newspaper. They were REAL HUMAN BEINGS.

Now they're gone and we've forgotten them.

Don't forget our soldiers. Honor them.

And the question for debate is: Have we forgotten our soldiers in Iraq?

Have we forgotten our soldiers in Iraq?

In Iraq? No. In Afghanistan? Yes. The war there has been pushed so far to the side that I'm sure the average person doesn't even think we're still engaged there.

I went through the whole list, and noticed a few things:

• Many of the people on the list died from non-combat causes, such as vehicle accidents and "non-combat weapons discharges". Helicopters seem particularly deadly. At least two or three of the non-combat deaths seem to have resulted in charges against other US military personnel.
• The only person above the rank of captain who's in the list is one Air Force major. I don't know what the proportions of various ranks are, but I would have expected to see at least a few more lieutenants and such instead of private, specialist, corporal all the way along a row.
• There seem to be a lot of artillery crews manning checkpoints. That's not what they're trained or equipped for, and it's a sign of just how thin our forces have been stretched.

Have 'we' the nation forgotten the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines?
I would agree with Billy Jean and say yes in Afghanistan, certainly. There are American GI's conducting operations on a daily basis in A-stan, hunting for OBL and Al-Qeada.
In Iraq, no, that is still very much in the news, mainly for the political bickering over policy and money.
I'm sure these men and women are on the minds of most here at AD since we have a pretty smart and compassionate group of people here, Americans and other nationalities.
And I know some like Paladin, Nileriver and myself (sorry if I've left someone out) who are in the military, know that it could be us over there, and in some cases has been us over there, greatly appreciate support from fellow Americans.

Thank you Nighttimer for starting this topic.

For Platy
Artillery manning checkpoints isn't all that unusual, most combat arms units are trained in not only providing their own security, but manning traffic control points as well.
The nature of small urban patrolling is such that the patrols are usually led by a Staff Sergeant or below.

Platypus



You missed Major Kevin G Nave of the 3rd Batt 5th Marine Reg.
He was run over by a military vehicle as he slept.

I also noted how many of the names listed were killed in non combat situations. It is truly shocking at how may crashes and accidents there are.

Yep, you're right. I did see that one, but some part of my mind didn't count it because it wasn't in combat. You're also right that the number of non-combat deaths was quite shocking. The phrase "non-hostile bullet" in one description was both amusing and shocking at the same time.

I have not looked at all of them, only made it about half way through before I had to stop... it is just too depressing to see so many young and vital people cut down by sheer brutal stupidity and to know that it continues even today.

It is inevitable that we lose sight of those individuals who fall before us. There are just so many of them.
But we can and should always remember them as a group. Together with the many thousands and millions who died before them, from the trenches and fields of Europe, or in the far flung islands of the pacific, to the frozen plains of the Ukraine and the burning deserts of Africa. We should never lose sight of how many couragous men, and women, have dies that we might enjoy the freedom and liberty we take for granted today.

We should think about them when our politicians talk of 'defence' and ponder long and hard on the consequences of our decisions. We should always bear in mind that our freedom was paid for.

I believe intervention against Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do. It is a shame that America had such a poor leader at this time, but I have every confidence in the heart and courage of the US forces (and people) serving in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the coalition allied forces serving along side them and I am profoundly grateful to them all, and honour them for their sacrifice on our behalf.

Do we have anyone on this board who is or whose spouse is serving?
Just curious

what a wonderful thread Moif.

I think about them every day and am overwhelmed by their sacrifice for country...for us. Not a morning goes by where before cnn or fox or msnbc is turned on that I don't hope and pray that another soldier hasn't lost his or her life.

such an enormous debt of gratitude is owed these men and women, their parents, wives, children, all those who suffer the loss.

However long this massive undertaking to change the brutality which infects the ME takes, it will have been due solely to the hearts of lions that these, who give their lives, possessed.

In Afghanistan and Iraq, when all is said and done, when the last bullet from the last soldier is fired and stability gives way to chaos these men and women should be awarded a special monument or place in these new nations. Nations that will have been RE-built on the principal of freedom which will be given to their inhabitants from the lives of these brave human beings. We need never to forget them.

Older men declare war. But it is the youth that must fight and die.
--- Herbert Hoover

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--- Jose Narosky

In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason.
--- Ernest Hemingway


I too could not go through the entire gallery of the dead. It's just too depressing to think of all the shattered families and spent lives.

Whether the reasons for the war were good or bad doesn't change the fact that it's a horrible expenditure of the rarest resources in the world; the value of a single human life.

It becomes too easy when we see another blairing headline Four GI's Killed In Iraq that there are names and faces that become merely details in the rush of recriminations against the war or the lofty pronouncements justifying it.

I feel as well for the Iraqi citizens that have died in the war. I even have some sympathy for the enemy soldiers that were following the commands of evil and unworthy leaders.

But I just want this to be over before the list of The Fallen gets much longer.