I have a love/hate relationship with debate. I'd be interested in hearing what others think, if this happens to spark your interest.

I love debate because I love testing my views and learning new perspectives. But I think there are limits to conventional debate that make it inevitably frustrating. By "conventional", I mean all debate forms, written or spoken, that are based on back-and-forth dialogue.

The worst forms of conventional debate (example: Hannity and Colmes) do very little to advance the audience's understanding of a dispute. There are many words exchanged, but very little meaningful engagement or logical argument.

But even the best forms with the best participants (example: America's Debate), are limited in their ability to convey a full understanding of multiple sides of an issue.

Inevitably, it seems like debates always end up with some degree of redundancy, incompleteness, superficiality, failure to engage, and/or lack of focus. Not all debates have all these problems, but I have yet to see a debate, in any forum, that has NONE of these problems.

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:

Since there are many people here that obviously love debate:

1) What is the primary thing that really draws you to debate?

2) What do you find most frustrating about debate?

3) In addition to AD, what do you consider the most effective forums of debate, on the net, in print, or elsewhere? Why?

4) What's the best single debate you've ever read, watched, or participated in?

1. I am argumentative. I have a primordial need to prove myself right.
2. That the other side is untenable in their position, in the face of facts.
3. There is no comparison to this site.
4. Hmm...

EDIT: I do get frustrated at times (the hate part). When I do, I stay casual (or stay away completely, depending on the situation) for awhile.

That I or someone else might learn something. I love learning, preferably in a less confrontational way, but I often find that people don't get motivated to bring out their best sources or arguments unless you push them a little. I also - increasingly as I get older - find that I enjoy helping others learn, and feel that by participating in debates such as those that occur here I get to do that once in a while.



The generally low level of respect not only for one's opponents but for the truth and processes of finding it. Anyone who's serious about the truth should be willing to do some research, familiar with basic logic, and eager to address reasonable questions or objections. Too often, I find that most people's goal is not to discover the truth but to suppress it through intimidation, and that they'll only use facts or logic when it suits them.



I have to agree with Amlord on this one. Apres AD, le deluge.



I'll have to think about that one some more.

1. Content mostly, I like topics that are rooted in general principles that have broad applications. In other words, the 'political science' of a Conservative world view as opposed to, what Rush thinks about Clinton's foreign policy. Rush and Clinton are good spring boards but political thought should be more then petty details, it has to be rooted in principle.

2. Arguments that dwell on semantics and questionable source material. I hate it when people want to snipe over a website or a quote and never really deal with the question at hand. Source material and semantics are vital to a good debate but its all too easy to miss the main point obsessing over minor points.

3. Open forum discussion is always effective especially some of the more involved email volleys you can get into. It seems like the process of writting things down, doing expositions of source material, and addressing specific questions at lenght is an excellent way to deal with debatable issues.

4. A debate on IRC between a Biola Philosophy Major and a retired Physicist on Epistomology(theory of knowledge). I participated along with a number of others but they were way out of our depth. I never have seen a more powerfull contest of ideals. It went on for hours and continued via email for mounths. We were kicked off of a number of chat lines before resorting to email and newsgroups. I was not the main contender but I've been hooked on formal debate ever since.

1) What is the primary thing that really draws you to debate?

The will to share my feelings and appreciation of the situation, to give insight and information to people who are interested.

2) What do you find most frustrating about debate?

People who don't care about my opinions, especially after I take the time to explain and justify them.

3) In addition to AD, what do you consider the most effective forums of debate, on the net, in print, or elsewhere? Why?

The net is the best at this point. It's fast, versatile, ever-changing, flexible and your opinions are not biased when you can't see whio you debate with.

4) What's the best single debate you've ever read, watched, or participated in?

Do we really have a soul or not? and is there something after death?

1) What is the primary thing that really draws you to debate?
I enjoy the debate because it can be mind expanding if one chooses to do the research.

2) What do you find most frustrating about debate?
One of the things I find most frustrating about debate is when a single person clearly posts links to and gains all the information they post from a slanted site. I have had occasion to in the past on another board I frequent, to bring non biased information to the board to offer as refuting that presented and it was ignored. I find that extremely frustrating.

3) In addition to AD, what do you consider the most effective forums of debate, on the net, in print, or elsewhere? Why?
I belong to two other debate forums which I won't name. One of which I have been a member of for close to two years. That particular forum I enjoy as there are many varying points of view. It is a rather laid back forum as it does not have regular monitors and things can get heated at times but all in all people stay withing certain boundaries most of the time.

4) What's the best single debate you've ever read, watched, or participated in?
Still looking for the best debate.

1) What is the primary thing that really draws you to debate?

By voicing my opinions, I clarify to myself what I really think. Debate is a testing ground for opinions, where they stand or fall and are rejected or accepted. I use other people as a sounding board, pondering upon their response (or lack there of) to my opinions, and revise my thinking accordingly.

To this end, I often go back and read what I wrote previously in order to better understand what I thought and how it changed.

Also. Through debate, I learn new idea's and new perspectives. I do not care if other people think differently than I do, because I can use their differences to adapt my own world view. I can learn and discover new information. By this, I grow.


2) What do you find most frustrating about debate?

Sometimes I fall into the trap of thinking I know better than others.

Sometimes people simply rant on and do not see that their opinions are of no consequence. Nothing debated in a forum or in a conversation will change the world.
Understanding can only be born through mutual dialogue.

I despise preachers.


3) In addition to AD, what do you consider the most effective forums of debate, on the net, in print, or elsewhere? Why?

Conversation, because it is easier to convey meaning, even with silence than with the written word.


4) What's the best single debate you've ever read, watched, or participated in?

An debate or an arguement with my GF. In this manner we become closer, for I refuse to sleep on a bad mood.

On the net, my favourite types of debate are those that touch dangerous (taboo) subjects.
I believe that we can only improve the world if we are honest, and put aside judgement in a candid attempt to improve ourselves.

1) What is the primary thing that really draws you to debate?

The stimulation of it all, i love to think. To debate seems to me an enjoyable activity. I can say i have learned things from people on here.

Overall it would be that and the difference of mind. I love to learn about people, so the broad range of ideas or opinions is always neat to study.

I also like to practice profiling, so i hope you all don’t mind as i do such in a stealthy manner

2) What do you find most frustrating about debate?

-People with closed minds.
-Religious fanatics.
-Fanatics of any type really.
-People that cut and paste parts of your argument to defend and carry theirs, while the parts the left out were important to the debate and that current moment.
-When i become interested in a dead thread or debate.

3) In addition to AD, what do you consider the most effective forums of debate, on the net, in print, or elsewhere? Why?

I have found that AD is basically what i am looking for. Though i do use other net based forums, i find that many are either way to bias, selective in topics or just plain out suck.

My other favorite alternative is actually group-based discussion, in real life. I always like a college class based on such.

4) What's the best single debate you've ever read, watched, or participated in?

Me and my good pal were drinking beer, i decided to debate why King Kong is a racist movie, he declined to accept my position and we started yelling at each other over it, i really wish that i had videotaped it.

1) What is the primary thing that really draws you to debate? I get some inexplicable thrill from opposing intelligent discourse- both observing and participating, and I like to learn.

2) What do you find most frustrating about debate? Condescension...direct and indirect.

3) In addition to AD, what do you consider the most effective forums of debate, on the net, in print, or elsewhere? Why? This is the only one I've stuck with. Other forums are too antagonistic, and in the real world I only know conservatives, so there isn't much to argue about.

4) What's the best single debate you've ever read, watched, or participated in? The best debates I ever had were with my husband when we were dating. We don't debate much anymore, because we know each other so well...but the occasional intellectual altercation still keeps things spicy.

1) What is the primary thing that really draws you to debate?
Exchanging ideas. Learning about "the opposition" and their rationale. Honing my arguments. Informing and being informed. Changing the world a little.

2) What do you find most frustrating about debate?
People who "cite statistics" without any sources or foundation. Making errors of judgement. People who have their arguments soundly refuted but who persist in clinging to them, ignoring all evidence to the contrary. Being proved wrong (theoretically ).

3) In addition to AD, what do you consider the most effective forums of debate, on the net, in print, or elsewhere? Why?
The internet is the best forum since the dialogues of Plato. I've participated regularly in about seven different discussion boards over the years and have pretty much abandoned all of them for America's Debate. I also enjoy "heated conversation" r/t - unless my partner is involved: he feels more strongly than I do on most issues, tends to be better informed, and has a louder voice.

4) What's the best single debate you've ever read, watched, or participated in?
"Best single" is a bit tough. I would've loved to have been in on the Constitutional Congress. More recently, I suppose the 1960 presidential debates between Kennedy and Nixon were pretty good - and there are almost always extremely stimulating exchanges in the Letters section of The New York Review of Books on a very wide range of subjects, usually by experts in their various fields. There are some terrific exchanges in literature, as well - G.B. Shaw, for example, leaps to mind (especially Man and Superman and - well, almost all of his plays). Online, I tend to appreciate debaters rather than specific debates. Here, there are too many to mention - and I'd definitely leave a few out if I started naming names...

I think it's the opportunity to match wits with other intellectuals. It comes down to the fact that if I can defend my viewpoints in a convincing manner, then it's worth all the time I invest into it.



Anyone who refuses to admit they are wrong, and drags a debate into a stalemate rather than concede. Any sort of extremist, because they are generally closed minded. When I have to admit I'm wrong!



I've been to other debate sites and they pale in comparison to AD, by far. AD has the most diverse and stimulating debates (until the good ones die ).



I'm still really looking for that one great debate which will put all the others to shame.

Edited to remove a tag I didn't use.

As Wertz said, the exchange of ideas is stimulating. This is a place where there is a garden variety of opinions on virtually every topic. If you hear the same opinions all of the time, you tend to stagnate. There are many posters here whose reasoning is top notch, and I benefit from reading their posts.

Those rare circumstances when a meeting of the minds takes place are also rewarding.



I get frustrated with the periodic name calling, and with assumptions that are made about someone whose ideologies are different. There are posters whose attitudes are colored by these assumptions to the point where the merits of others' arguments are lost.



As with other posters, I don't see an "in addition to AD" when it comes to effectiveness of debate.



I used to mix it up with my dad when I was a teenager. Dad repeatedly talked about the importance of girls being virgins. Well aware of the gender disparity, I would ask him why men shouldn't be virgins as well. He used to hem and haw and then would say, "because women like men to be experienced." Now, if the girls were saving themselves for marriage, with whom would the men gain experience?

One Father's Day, Dad lifted his water glass and proposed a toast, "To fathers everywhere!" In response I lifted my glass, saying "and to the children who don't know who their fathers are!"

Dad first turned pale, then his face got really red. Mom looked down at her food; she almost betrayed herself with a smile. I am sure my little brother wasn't even breathing. Dad said nothing.

It wasn't often that I was mouthy as a teenager, but it was memorable when it happened.

Now I'm not saying that it was the best single debate, but I think the best debates are the ones where the juices are flowing, and you invest part of yourself in it.
(That's why I have trouble posting to topics like "Defending the Indefensible." )