Full Version: National Health/ID card proposed...
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The European Union took its first step yesterday towards the creation of an EU-wide health identity card able to store a range of biometric and personal data on a microchip by 2008. Approved by Union ministers in Luxembourg, the plastic disk will slide into the credit-card pouch of a wallet or purse.
Liberty groups attack plan for EU health ID card
Civil liberty groups are opposing the card:
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Tony Bunyan, the head of Statewatch, said it was part of a disturbing Union-wide erosion of privacy since September 11 2001. "We all know where they're heading with this," he said. "They want a single card with all our data on one chip. It'll be a passport and driver's licence rolled into one with everything from our national insurance numbers, bank accounts, to health records."
Question for debate: Is an identification card like this more useful or more harmful to everyday folks?
Here's my take: how many possible cases of "we need this person's medical data" can there possibly be in a year? How much freedom can possibly be lost with the introduction of such a card (as an identification card)?
My answer : not enough to justify the possibility of harm.
QUOTE(Amlord @ Oct 22 2003, 02:39 PM)
Here's my take: how many possible cases of "we need this person's medical data" can there possibly be in a year? How much freedom can possibly be lost with the introduction of such a card (as an identification card)?
It's also a matter of severity of the instances when you need that information. Perhaps you will only encounter one instance of 'we need this person's medical data' in your life, but what if that instance is life or death.
This is only deprecation of civil liberties if it is mandatory to obtain a card and carry that card with you.
Besides, what is the real harm from having a card like this?
Is an identification card like this more useful or more harmful to everyday folks?
I think it is more harmful. It opens the door to a mandatory ID card with all of this information PLUS credit history and other financial information. This can open a whole can of worms including fraud and identity theft. Also, the opportunity for abuse by the government by tracking our activities and possible restrictions due to those observations.
I think it is more harmful. It opens the door to a mandatory ID card with all of this information PLUS credit history and other financial information. This can open a whole can of worms including fraud and identity theft. Also, the opportunity for abuse by the government by tracking our activities and possible restrictions due to those observations.
QUOTE(Billy Jean @ Oct 22 2003, 03:03 PM)
I think it is more harmful. It opens the door to a mandatory ID card with all of this information PLUS credit history and other financial information. This can open a whole can of worms including fraud and identity theft. Also, the opportunity for abuse by the government by tracking our activities and possible restrictions due to those observations.
I don't understand how this is more of a lead in to 'mandatory ID cards with credit history and other financial information' than a drivers licence. I think ya'll are being a little alarmist here. Further, what does "possible restriction due to those observations" mean?
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I think ya'll are being a little alarmist here. Further, what does "possible restriction due to those observations" mean?
Well, if you have all of your personal, medical and financial information on one database and easily accessible there are various avenues in which the information can be exploited: Any activity that they consider suspicious, including purchases, travel activity. If they deem you a risk and your a citizen, your freedoms could be restricted. If you owed money and they used the card and see this strike on your record, you could be restricted from health care. There are various abuses that could occur.
This is what we have laws for. For instance the Congress just passed a bill that made it illegal for health insurance providers to discriminate using genetic makeup.
I don't think the government would be able to really 'limit freedoms' because of 'travel activity'. Can you imagine the outrage if citizens were held within the U.S. because their travels matched a certain pattern?
Now, I can see a situation where the department of homeland security flags certain people because of travel patterns, but if you’re not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about. In fact, if they do detain you (or whatever) then the ACLU will provide you with free legal counsel in your million dollar civil suit against the government. You will be famous for a few months and win a large law suit against the government. You can then make a few more bucks by writing a book about your experiences.
I just think worry about 'big brother' in the U.S. is a little paranoid because everyone is watching everyone else in the political area. If the opposition party had any reason to believe something really bad was happening they would punch all over the power party.
If we ever enter an authoritarian, single-party system, then these concerns would be warranted. Until then it is my opinion that we have nothing to worry about.
I don't think the government would be able to really 'limit freedoms' because of 'travel activity'. Can you imagine the outrage if citizens were held within the U.S. because their travels matched a certain pattern?
Now, I can see a situation where the department of homeland security flags certain people because of travel patterns, but if you’re not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about. In fact, if they do detain you (or whatever) then the ACLU will provide you with free legal counsel in your million dollar civil suit against the government. You will be famous for a few months and win a large law suit against the government. You can then make a few more bucks by writing a book about your experiences.
I just think worry about 'big brother' in the U.S. is a little paranoid because everyone is watching everyone else in the political area. If the opposition party had any reason to believe something really bad was happening they would punch all over the power party.
If we ever enter an authoritarian, single-party system, then these concerns would be warranted. Until then it is my opinion that we have nothing to worry about.
In Denmark, the state already runs a personal identity number system, where by every citizen has a number.
When I go to the bank, or the council, or the hospital, they ask for this number (depending on the service I require)
There is no problem with this.
However, in the course of my life, I have had recourse to a psychologist, and the council who paid for the services of the psychologist have her report, and a lot of very personal information on me, in their files.
IF that information became available to the bank then I would be very worried that it might be used against me the next time I negotiate a loan.
If my identity card, also carried my medical statistics, then I would also wish for some garantee's that this information is not readily available to the many services which might require to see or scan my ID card.
When I go to the bank, or the council, or the hospital, they ask for this number (depending on the service I require)
There is no problem with this.
However, in the course of my life, I have had recourse to a psychologist, and the council who paid for the services of the psychologist have her report, and a lot of very personal information on me, in their files.
IF that information became available to the bank then I would be very worried that it might be used against me the next time I negotiate a loan.
If my identity card, also carried my medical statistics, then I would also wish for some garantee's that this information is not readily available to the many services which might require to see or scan my ID card.
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