We were drifting too much in the topic related to "Gratitude to America", therefore I decided to start this one to continue the debate.

First, I explained this :



I'd like to know if you think this is shocking and why. Personally, as a Catholic, I'm not shocked at all by that and I don't think this is oppression.

To answer Bucket's comments quickly about Christian holidays, here is my opinion. These holidays remain because it would be very unpopular to remove them all. They're become more of a historical tradition than any religious tradition, really. And when you see the figures of Christians actually practising in the country, this is quite explanatory.


Second, Bucket said :



I happen to agree with her, but still I'd like to know how you feel about that and what explanations you can find to explain the situation.

I would also add (in response to GoAmerica) that maybe my interpretation of the judgement of Israel was perhaps incomplete. Maybe the people sentenced the actual perilous situation between Palestine and Israel, not just Israel itself.

Firstly, w.r.t. religious expression, we tend not to have outright rules governing it. But, for a great many years now, overt expressions of religiosity have been considered somehow gauche, socially embarrassing, and even in poor taste. While this extends to all religions, for some reason it seems to be especially true for Christianity, where the behaviour descriptors above are applied to the person.

So overt Christians have become characterised as, at best, faintly eccentric losers, and, at worst, social pariahs.

Being British, we don't generally up on these people, we laugh at them instead. I should add that most of the humour and almost all the vitriol is aimed at the worshippers, not at the worshipped. But it's an indication of how deeply secular we are as a society, despite having an established church that is intimately linked to our public institutions and government.

Personally I have no particular problem with any of this, and indeed would like to see it extended to include other faiths - particularly Islam. This is beginning to happen - there are at least three Muslim stand-up comics I've seen live whose act is mostly centred on making non-Muslims laugh at aspects of Muslim culture, as well as taking easy jabs at Western culture and politics. In another generation I think most British Muslims will be as secular as the rest of us, and not a moment too soon.

Edited to add:

On reporting of the Israeli-Palestine conflict, I can only talk about the British media, and what I've seen of the American media. I would say that the BBC in particular is broadly even-handed. They report suicide bomb attacks as terrorist incidents and do not try to downplay the chaos and suffering they cause. But they also report IDF reprisals in terms of the chaos and suffering they cause, rather than the military effectiveness. Rather than being pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian, which I would say was an accusation that could be levelled at the US and Arab media respectively, I would say that the British media tries not to take sides. In Israel, at least, I would say that the BBC is only biased towards the Palestinians when compared to pro-Israeli sources.
From what I've read about the French media, rather than anything I've seen on or in it (my French is too rusty to folow anything much past childrens' TV there), their media is somewhat more pro-Pal and anti-Israel, but no more than US news is broadly pro-Israel and anti-Arab.

I think I've said before that on visits to the US, I have been shocked at how overt the bias to the right on TV news is, and how much it is expressed by journalists themselves. Newsreaders have opinions, there. British TV news bias tends to be much more editorial than journalistic. The stories that do get covered at least try to show both sides.

Good point Julian..

I believe it is true that Blair is a very religious man...yet he just isn't always blabbering about it in public making a fool of himself. Unlike our own presdient here in America because to Americans that sort of spouting of faith is endearing and shows character. To Europeans it is distasteful and shows arrogance.

It is a MAJOR cultural difference between the two that many do not understand. And we have many of them. Americans are very open and like to talk about their religion, their employment, the worth of their house, their car and their yearly salary. We have to do this tho because unlike Europeans... rich people or people of importance and affluence come in all shapes, colors and sizes and you can not size them up by simply saying hello how are you.
Where as in Europe they can gather all of this info by simply seeing how you dress, how you say hello how are you and you basic mannerisms.

It is not that Europeans do not care about this...they just have a much easier time caring about it





I do not really understand your question ? You want to know how I feel about European news coverage and explanations to what situation? I do want to answer your question just want to make sure I am answering the question you want answered

I do find it somewhat shocking. While I can appreciate the separation of church and state, I don't believe that it's necessary to hinder religious expression to achieve equality and freedom. If a Muslim woman believes that wearing the chador is a necessary part of her religion, what kind of inner turmoil must it cause to not be allowed to wear it in public, which is one of the major purposes of the chador to begin with? Additionally, how does disallowing a person to show their faith create a tolerant society that can accept the differences among people?