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America's Debate > Archive > Everything Else Archive > [A] History Debate
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CruisingRam
We went over this once before, but due to the cancellation of the CBS mini-series on Reagan, I am hearing once again from the right this old tired stuff about how Reagan single handedly brought down the Soviet "empire" (in itself a mis-nomer). I have asked this question of political hobbyists from the right and they also have no supporting argument of how Reagans lavish defense spending somehow upset the Soviet union's power structure with no bloodshed or revolution. hmmm.gif

The question is: How did Reagan effect, if at all, the power structure in Russia that would lead to the "fall of the soviet empire"?
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Shinwa
My opinion.... is that the Soviet Union did not fall, and Reagan, hence, could not have caused it to fall.
From what I've seen of Russian politics, there was a token shift in government form. The initial "democratic" Russian leadership, was the same as the "socialist" Soviet leadership. Except, they no longer had to pay for guaranteed housing and food.... so they had more money and more tax-money to spend on everything ELSE. Just my opinion. Anyone here from said place, who can verify/crush my theory?
CruisingRam
Old Amazon link with reviews and New Amazon link which describes how the KGB orchestrated the events during the eighties. It perfectly fits with my theory of the motives of the Soviet oligarchy and claims that Yeltsin and the radical Democrats were unwitting accomplomises of the growth of the KGB.

"During the perestroika years, people who were closely connected with the KGB advanced to the highest offices in the country and the KGB increased its power in the Army. By 1985, the KGB had successfully grafted itself on to the party-state apparat. So when the KGB, the communist party and the military industrial complex cooked up the plan for perestroika, the KGB was in a prime position to run the show and man the engine for reform. Albats shows how Gorbachev suited the group within the oligarchy who were capable of seeing how close the Soviet Union was to economic collapse. That meant he suited the KGB as well. This was how perestroika opened the way for the KGB to advance toward the heart of power"

"In the spring of 1991, when Yeltsin was running for president, KGB directors sent their officers a coded telegram ordering them to vote against Yeltsin. The KGB also had a source close to Gorbachev. Indeed the tragic paradox of perestroika was that the democrats removed the communist party from the political arena before they were ready to step in and take over. Unwittingly, they had disrupted the balance of power in favour of the KGB, thereby allowing it in December 1990 to declare publicly through its chairman Kryuchkov that the real power in the country was vested in the political police."

The growth of the oligarchs based around the Yeltsin Family didn't have anything to do with the "old" KGB but with Putin bringing back the FSB into the heart of power, the plan is returning. These folks aren't Commies, but strong Russian authotarians.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Nov 5 2003, 07:56 PM)

The question is: How did Reagan effect, if at all, the power structure in Russia that would lead to the "fall of the soviet empire"?

The following speech by Mikhail Gorbachev to the Politburo in November 1987 was reported by Sir William Stephenson (the man known as Intrepid), who was head of the Combined Allied Intelligence Operations during WWII:
"Gentlemen, comrades, do not be concerned about all you hear about glasnost and perestroika and democracy in the coming years. These are primarily for outward consumption. There will be no significant internal change within the Soviet Union, other than for cosmetic purposes.Our purpose is to disarm the Americans and let them fall asleep. We want to accomplish three things:
1. We want the Americans to withdraw conventional forces from Europe.
2. We want the Americans to withdraw nuclear forces from Europe.
3. We want America to stop proceeding with the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)."

I think Reagan had some effect.
CruisingRam
The plan of the KSB has worked very well as described in my prior post if you are following Russian going's on right now- the oligarchs are being arrested right and left, and they have solidified thier control. Many poeple in power in Russia believe that Gorbachevs speech you quoted above was to placate the order minded politburo, and when the actual standard of living dropped (as it has dramatically for Russians, plus the lack of pride they feel now in thier country) they would be poised for popular support. The first thing Putin did when he was in office is cancel a great deal of Yeltsin's "reforms" including local autonomy of goverments, which was an EXTREMELY popular move for most Russians, because it took power out of the hands of some VERY corrupt local governers.

America has nothing to do with the internal power struggles or power structure in Russia, nor really does any other culture or country either, they are very insular. This is tradition for this country. Peter the great was the first Czar ever to even leave his country, unless the Czar was conquering another teritory!
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