Full Version: Backyard terrorism
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"If any government sponsors the outlaws and killers of innocents," George Bush announced on the day he began bombing Afghanistan, "they have become outlaws and murderers themselves. And they will take that lonely path at their own peril." I'm glad he said "any government", as there's one which, though it has yet to be identified as a sponsor of terrorism, requires his urgent attention.
For the past 55 years it has been running a terrorist training camp, whose victims massively outnumber the people killed by the attack on New York, the embassy bombings and the other atrocities laid, rightly or wrongly, at al-Qaida's door. The camp is called the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, or Whisc. It is based in Fort Benning, Georgia, and it is funded by Mr Bush's government.
For the past 55 years it has been running a terrorist training camp, whose victims massively outnumber the people killed by the attack on New York, the embassy bombings and the other atrocities laid, rightly or wrongly, at al-Qaida's door. The camp is called the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, or Whisc. It is based in Fort Benning, Georgia, and it is funded by Mr Bush's government.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/stor...,583254,00.html
Everyone knows that the US is about the biggest supporter of terrorists in the world. Why is this so fair? Why can the "terrorist" the US government train try to overthrow democratic governments like Colombia?
Should the US government be training terrorists?
I would simply say the guardian is not the best news source. I also question the way you even ask the question. 55 years? Mr Bush's Government? I would say the US Government. Methinks you need to rethink your question find a better source and re-pharse it so that it doesn't sound so anti-Bush and more about the US policy for 55 years.
I didn't even vote for the guy but lets make some rational arguments about GWB please...I haven't seen one yet here on AD.
cusbilla
I didn't even vote for the guy but lets make some rational arguments about GWB please...I haven't seen one yet here on AD.
cusbilla
I happen to know a little something about the School of the America's.
Do you have any supporting evidence, such as cirriculum, syllabus or any course materials that are taught by what is now known as WHINSEC?
Do you have any supporting evidence, such as cirriculum, syllabus or any course materials that are taught by what is now known as WHINSEC?
"I happen to know..." is not a successful refutation. It's funny that this is coming up now because I just had a class where we watched a documentary on Father Roy Bourgois and his campaign to have the school closed. It raised some interesting points. At the time the video was made in 1997 the U.S. Army Undersecretary proudly declared that "10 heads of state are graduates of the School." What he fails to mention is that not one of them was elected into their positions.
It also made reference to a Panamanian Human Rights activist who unearthed manuals from the school (when it was located in Panama) that exist solely to demonstrate efficient means of torture.
The men who organized the assassination of Reverend Oscar Romero in El Salvador trained at the school; as did the men who later slaughtered six Jesuits and their housekeep in the same country.
Let me ask you this: the primary focus of the school is to teach "Counter-Insurgency" for foreign soldiers. Who are the insurgents in South and Central America? For countries like El Salvador they're the poor, unionists, peace-activists and those who advocate democratic reform.
It also made reference to a Panamanian Human Rights activist who unearthed manuals from the school (when it was located in Panama) that exist solely to demonstrate efficient means of torture.
The men who organized the assassination of Reverend Oscar Romero in El Salvador trained at the school; as did the men who later slaughtered six Jesuits and their housekeep in the same country.
Let me ask you this: the primary focus of the school is to teach "Counter-Insurgency" for foreign soldiers. Who are the insurgents in South and Central America? For countries like El Salvador they're the poor, unionists, peace-activists and those who advocate democratic reform.
UJ, 'I happen to know' was not a refutation, I was trying, unsuccessfully it appears to draw some more out of wm009 besides one Guardian article.
The School of the America's has had it's share of problems, mostly during the late 1970's and early 80's. But are we to believe from the Guardian, that those problems are still ongoing?
I've seen no recent evidence of any wrongdoing from WHINSEC. I do give the Guardian kudo's for spin, though. 'Terrorist training camp.........funded by Mr Bush's government...'
But then again, Mr. Monbiot doesn't strike me as being a particularly fair and balanced journalist after perusing his website.
If you look at the course catalog, it doesn't appear to be any courses offering thumbscrewing, raping and pillaging. Those that I know that teach there don't instruct 'Zippo Raids 101'.
So, my question is, where is the proof that the previous 'alleged' crimes were the fault of SOA. Graduates of WHINSEC are also, in many cases graduates of Army Ranger School and SERE school, where you learn combat, leadership, and interrogation techniques, as well as much more. Should these schools be looked into as well?
The mission of WHINSEC is:
Provide professional education and training to military, law enforcement, and civilians to support the democratic principles of the Western Hemisphere.
Build strong relationships among the participating nations, helping to ensure peace and stability throughout the hemisphere.
Promote democratic values, respect for human rights and knowledge and understanding of U.S. customs and traditions.
How does the economic status of insurgents factor into this debate?
By the way, you left out communists, marxists, and corrupt unions, oh you did get those.
But again, what does that matter?
The School of the America's has had it's share of problems, mostly during the late 1970's and early 80's. But are we to believe from the Guardian, that those problems are still ongoing?
I've seen no recent evidence of any wrongdoing from WHINSEC. I do give the Guardian kudo's for spin, though. 'Terrorist training camp.........funded by Mr Bush's government...'
But then again, Mr. Monbiot doesn't strike me as being a particularly fair and balanced journalist after perusing his website.
If you look at the course catalog, it doesn't appear to be any courses offering thumbscrewing, raping and pillaging. Those that I know that teach there don't instruct 'Zippo Raids 101'.
So, my question is, where is the proof that the previous 'alleged' crimes were the fault of SOA. Graduates of WHINSEC are also, in many cases graduates of Army Ranger School and SERE school, where you learn combat, leadership, and interrogation techniques, as well as much more. Should these schools be looked into as well?
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Let me ask you this: the primary focus of the school is to teach "Counter-Insurgency" for foreign soldiers. Who are the insurgents in South and Central America? For countries like El Salvador they're the poor, unionists, peace-activists and those who advocate democratic reform.
The mission of WHINSEC is:
Provide professional education and training to military, law enforcement, and civilians to support the democratic principles of the Western Hemisphere.
Build strong relationships among the participating nations, helping to ensure peace and stability throughout the hemisphere.
Promote democratic values, respect for human rights and knowledge and understanding of U.S. customs and traditions.
How does the economic status of insurgents factor into this debate?
By the way, you left out communists, marxists, and corrupt unions, oh you did get those.
But again, what does that matter?
Check out School of the Americas Watch...
Here is a nice excerpt from the "Graduates" section:
In fact, according to the film I mentioned earlier graduate lists from the school itself confirm that 49 of the 60 people identified by the United Nations Truth Commission on the El Mozote massacre were graduates of the school.
If you want some sort of "proof" from a non-biased source perhaps you should look at the Intelligence Oversight Board. On June 28th, 1996 they released a report which was highly critical of the SOA, and had this to say about it:
Here is a nice excerpt from the "Graduates" section:
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MAJ Armando Azmitia Melara, 1967, Cadet Orientation Course
El Mozote massacre, 1981: Was operations chief of the battalion
(Atlacatl) which massacred hundreds of unarmed men, women and children
at El Mozote. (United Nations Truth Commission Report on El Salvador,
1993)
Lake Suchitlan massacre, 1983: Commanded the Atlacatl battalion in the
massacre of 117 people. (U.S. Arms Control and Foreign Policy Caucus
(House of Representatives) memo, April 25, 1990)
Los Llanitos massacre, 1984: Commanded the Atlacatl battalion in the
massacre of 68 people, most of whom were under age 14. (U.S. Arms
Control and Foreign Policy Caucus (House of Representatives) memo, April
25, 1990)
El Mozote massacre, 1981: Was operations chief of the battalion
(Atlacatl) which massacred hundreds of unarmed men, women and children
at El Mozote. (United Nations Truth Commission Report on El Salvador,
1993)
Lake Suchitlan massacre, 1983: Commanded the Atlacatl battalion in the
massacre of 117 people. (U.S. Arms Control and Foreign Policy Caucus
(House of Representatives) memo, April 25, 1990)
Los Llanitos massacre, 1984: Commanded the Atlacatl battalion in the
massacre of 68 people, most of whom were under age 14. (U.S. Arms
Control and Foreign Policy Caucus (House of Representatives) memo, April
25, 1990)
In fact, according to the film I mentioned earlier graduate lists from the school itself confirm that 49 of the 60 people identified by the United Nations Truth Commission on the El Mozote massacre were graduates of the school.
If you want some sort of "proof" from a non-biased source perhaps you should look at the Intelligence Oversight Board. On June 28th, 1996 they released a report which was highly critical of the SOA, and had this to say about it:
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School of the Americas ... used improper instruction materials in training Latin American officers from 1982 to 1991. ... certain passages appeared to condone practices such as execution of guerillas, extortion, physical abuse, coercion, and false imprisonment.
A small point, from the SOAW website:
So out of 60,000 graduates, some turn out to be bad apples. That's like saying the University of Washington should be shut down because Ted Bundy graduated from there...
The SoA trains militants in military tactics. Blaming the school for the deeds of the graduates doesn't seem to be a valid argument, unless you can demonstrate that they would have been unsuccessful without the knowledge the school gave them.
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Background: The US Army School of Americas (SOA), based in Fort Benning, Georgia, trains Latin American soldiers in combat, counter-insurgency, and counter-narcotics. Graduates of the SOA are responsible for some of the worst human rights abuses in Latin America. Among the SOA's nearly 60,000 graduates are...
So out of 60,000 graduates, some turn out to be bad apples. That's like saying the University of Washington should be shut down because Ted Bundy graduated from there...
The SoA trains militants in military tactics. Blaming the school for the deeds of the graduates doesn't seem to be a valid argument, unless you can demonstrate that they would have been unsuccessful without the knowledge the school gave them.
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