You all know that President Bush just had passed the partial birth abortion ban, which to me is a giant step to just banning the though procedure.

Questions for debate:

Are you for or against abortion? (i want some moderate views)

and

If you as a republican are for abortion, why?

I'm a registered Republican and since I do support "Choice" suppose that makes me a moderate.

Banning late-term abortion was, to me, the humane thing to do. If a group of cells and tissue have working arms legs eyes brain internal organs and can survive outside the mother then that to me is a human baby. I do not consider a mass of cells just having been newly fertilized and on it's way to becoming a future human baby to be a "baby." This is simply my stance. I support 1st trimester abortions. I don't necessarily like it but I don't necessarily like women being told what to do with their bodies and lives.

To be honest and quite controversial, the best birth control, best way to curtail abortions would be to render every baby sterile until it comes time that this person is mature enough to actually want offspring and be able to provide the basics for it.

woah! I dunno, drastic times = drastic measures. It comes from sheer frustration with the abortion debate itself, and just the overall disgust with the proliferation of child murders and abuse and abandonments.

I am "Pro-Choice. I think a woman should have the right to decide what she wants to do with her unborn child. Banning late-term abortiopn, though to me, was a good thing to do because at that stage of development, that can be considered murder because the fetus basically can be called a life.

I hadn't noticed. sorry.

it's been officially declared.

I am avid Pro-Life, as before I was Anti-Life I never really cared what women did with their bodies until I saw an abortion and it was the most horrible, vile, evil, thing I ever saw. A baby was dislodged from the womb, pulled out piece by piece and when the head was finally removed the child had a gasping, terrified face that seemed to be in horror and pain. After that day I could never support such cruelty, in fact I would do what ever possible to see abortion illegalized again and I support other attempts as well to stop abortions.

Abortion, for me, is fairly far down on the voting criteria. I am against abortions in principal, as to me it is all about failing to own up to the consequences of your actions. Partial birth abortions, to me, were particularly inhumane, and had no place in our society. However, I also see the arguments that making abortions illegal will just force people to get unsafe abortions. This certainly won't help the situation.

I consider myself a conservative on every issue except abortion. To me a fetus is not a person until the third trimester where the baby really begins to form and grow. That is why I am pro-choice except in the third trimester.

Im a republican and Im "pro choice". To be honest, I've been through that experience with my ex girlfriend while we were in high school.. if it wasn't for abortion, I dont believe I would be where Im at today, getting a college education. However, Im in agreement with Bush on his signing - there should be limitations on abortion. Abortion is a serious thing, and you should not have to wait months before you decided to abort the pregnancy. However, I hope abortion will never get banned, and I doubt it will EVER be banned.

Abortion is down the list as far as political issues go for me, as well.

I personally would never choose the abortion route. As a matter of fact, when faced with that exact decision when my girlfriend (now wife) and I were 21, we chose to have the baby.

Mugwump on this one - neither side is going to be too thrilled with me:

On the Federal level I'm for no government involvement with abortion, pro or con. No role is authorized for the U.S. governemtn in the Constitution regarding common crimes, which is what abortion is if it is murder. Conversely no role is authorized for it regarding health care in general, if that's what it is.

On the state level I'm for it being legal with restrictions, i.e. first trimester only barring medical necessity, which of course would depend on the political consensus in the particular state.

Excellent reasoning, Izdaari. I pretty much agree with your views.

I also agree with Izdaari, however I also feel that there needs to be a place for 1st trimester abortions when the pregnancy is a result of rape, as well as medical necessity.

I disagree on that. If a democrat was pro-life, i would have to take a good look at him. Think about it, If a dem is pro-life, he would many other good ideas, that may fit us.

Personally, I am glad that I never had to make that decision and unless the pregnancy was a result of extraordinary circumstances, I probably would not choose to abort. Regardless of my personal views, I uphold "The Right To Choose" for others.

IMO...abortion shouldn't be a political issue.

I consider abortion a non-issue; I don't think it should have so much bearing at the national political level. Recent court cases have extended substantive due process to include a woman's right to abort a fetus, but I think this is an issue better left for the states to handle. I'm weary of "finding" broad-reaching fundamental rights in the Constitution (that the framers obviously never could have considered).

Partial-birth abortion, however, is particularly heinous and wanton. The method of a partial-birth abortion is very violent and disturbing. Considering the woman had the opportunity for an abortion in her earlier trimesters, I see no need for a violent and excessive act, so I support the banning of partial birth abortions. Decisions of abortions earlier in the pregnancy I would leave up as an issue to the states.

IMO, abortion is murder. And women who use it as a form of birth control should be charged in a court of law with premeditated first degree murder. I am very anti-abortion as you can see.

I am more concerned with the economic direction the country is taking and the dangerous issues with face like terrorism and our still wide open borders. However, Abortion is a real issue and one that can only be addressed through the court. Supporting the GOP and is the best chance of getting a court that will see whats wrong with roe v wade and fix it.

Call me what you will but I think the real question when it comes to abortion is personal responsiblity.

Taking the very small percentage of rape and incest cases out of the mix for a second lets look at the bulk of abortions.

The reason? unprotected sex and chosen risky behavior.

When you CHOOSE to have sex you are choosing an action that risks pregnancy. Abortion to me is just another example of people looking for ways to avoid taking responsibility for their actions and the consequences of those actions.

I am pro-life, I believe that the unborn are children with souls from conception.

I also believe strongly that people need to take responsibility for what they choose to do and think about others and not just themselves.

Think about the unborn child being destroyed, their chance at life stolen. But also think of all the childless couples out there that want children and would love to adopt a new born.

very well said, overlandsailor. I couldn't have said it better myself. Unborn children have the right to life; they are completely innocent. I also believe life begins at conception. It's a gift from God or whatever you believe concerning that. Life is precious and taking it away is a crime. Stopping a beating heart is a crime. I don't see how it can be viewed any other way. But this is why the debate continues. But for me, I could not support any candidate who believed abortion was ok. To me this issue says so much about a person's character.

Abortion should only be used when it endangers the life of the mother. As for late term abortions... no way, if you waited that long to decide whether to keep it or not, you need to work on your critical thinking. Abortion has been turned into a form of birth control and I think that all Americans should take some personal responsibility when it comes to sex. Abortion is a last resort, not the cure for being pregnant.

What makes it a violent act during the last trimester, and non-violent during the first two trimesters?

Abortion is murder, plain and simple.

The only thought provoking scenario for me would be my wife lying on the table dying, or the child dying.

I don't know if I could just let my wife die.

Well that brings up my points, would you allow your wife to die in that scenario and, althogh I do not condone abortion at all, when would you rather it be done. Are you familiar with the process of late term abortions? It's petty grotesque.

I am pro- choice, but also pro- life, so I believe that the choice should be the baby's choice. My personal view is that life occurs at conception, so this reply will be based on that assumption. Someone can be charged for murder for killing and unborn baby by abusing or killing the mother, so this should mean that the baby is alive. With this being said, I believe that doctors performing the abortions should also be tried for murder. I also believe that if a baby is not wanted, then the couple should abstain from sexual intercourse ( This should make sense to anyone, regardless of whether they agree with the rest of what I have to say). Even in the case of rape, as terrible as it is, the baby did not choose to come into existence.
Because a baby would not be capable of choosing life or death, and even if the baby could and did choose death it would be assisted suicide (also illegal),..........
If the partial birth abortion ban does lead to the whole nasty procedure of abortion being banned, then I believe a major victory for morality will have occurred.

So far, those who called themselves "pro-choice" and specified what that meant, all have been what I would call "anti-abortion," in that they oppose elective abortion in later months. Let's be careful about using the terms the media gives us! Relative to current law, you're "anti-abortion" like me, although "pro-abortion" compared to some. However, those "some" are unlikely to succeed.

I oppose abortion after the baby has a brain to register suffering with. The best info I have says this is true at 6 weeks. Some on another board have been telling me it's well after 5 months (birth?) that brain activity starts. I am getting the sense that many who call themselves pro-choice oppose killing babies that can feel the pain, but think that abortion is usually done to an undifferentiated tissue blob -- that is, like some we've heard from so far, and like me except for the understanding of what happens when in gestation. This would imply that a common understanding can be reached if we can just get the facts; a wonderful and unexpected turn!

I must say that abortion is perfectly acceptable. We, as humans, are reproducing quickly and the population is expected to grow rapidly. This must be controlled and abortion is the best option.

Limitations must be placed on abortion, though, like George W. Bush had said. I truly believe that abortion should be an option only when the pregnancy is in the first few months. Otherwise, we might as well just allow anyone to kill newborn infants.

As of now, abortion is greatly needed. There is no other option.

Well... I suppose someone has to be the "heartless anti-choice radical" here, so I guess I'll volunteer.

I don't think abortion should be legal under any circumstances except a serious risk of death to the mother (do we want two people dying or one?). It has nothing to do with not wanting women to be able to make choices. I just don't buy into the concept of a "woman's right to choose." There's a lot more at stake than choice.

I know some people will be asking me, "What about rape?" This is a difficult one, I admit; in almost every other case, the woman (and her partner) already made the choice to have sex (and thus accept the consequences; it is no secret that having sex can lead to pregnancy). On the other hand, if that developing embryo is a human life (and I think it is), then why should we be ending a human's life just because its father behaved badly?

Also, I'm no expert on this, but would abortion really take the pain of rape away?

One last thing. Issues of population control have come up in this thread. However, Western nations are the only ones with access to abortion or, for that matter, any form of contraception, and not surprisingly, we are the civilization whose population is not keeping up with the rest of the world's. The danger in this is that our civilization will not survive long enough to help properly spread constitutional democratic republican values to other parts of the world.

I consider abortion as murder. This babies are more then unborn fetuses. They are living, breathing beings that are killed so that their mother doesn't have to work with them. There are many, many unbarren women out in the world who are unable to have children who would be more than happy to have a baby to adopt. So why is it that it continues to be legal to have children killed before they get a chance at life? This is wrong. If you just put the baby up for adoption, everyone wins. They baby lives, the mother still doesn't have to take care of the baby and doesn't have to live with the guilt of killing a child, and the family who adopts the baby gets a beautiful new child. Who is it that gains from abortion then? The abortionist. So the abortionist is gaining from killing a baby? This is wrong and should be declared illegal.

Ban abortion. That would be my choice.

Pro-life people,

I'll stipulate for purposes of discussion that abortion is murder. But if so, we still have no constitutional authority to ban it since murder is a common crime, and they do not fall under federal jurisdiction. Murder is not a federal crime, but is enforced by the states.

If you're with me on that, and if you're a strict construction constitutionalist, as I believe all good Republicans should be, your position would have to be the same as mine: that the federal government should neither fund abortion nor encourage it in any way, nor ban it, but should leave it entirely to the states. Or if you insist on banning it nationally, that would have to be by constitutional amendment.

Then let's make it a constitutional ammendment. Yes, murder trial is overseen by the states, but by the same token, no matter where you are in the US, murder is a crime. Shouldn't it be the same with abortion?

Alrighty, Vanilla. I won't support the amendment, and unless you can change a lot of minds it has no chance of passing, but your position is logical and consistent, and I respect that.

Abortion is the best option? You mean, as opposed to:

1. Abstinence?
2. Birth Control?
3. Adoption?

I would have to say, I find it very difficult to believe you can make a case for that. That, in a nutshell, is what irritates me about the entire abortion issue--it focuses on the wrong time frame. Getting pregnant is not a choice, it's a consequence. The choices were made leading up to that point.

There are a couple of problems with this argument, though.

First, it does not address the claim that a fetus is a human being and therefore that abortion amounts morally to the same thing as murder. If that claim is correct (which I believe it is, but I'll save that for another day), then one could justify any type of murder--euthanasia in particular--based on the argument that we need to control our population.

Second, there are other means of population control. Condoms, the pill, ABSTINENCE... all very effective when used properly. Thus, the argument that abortion is necessary to control the population doesn't hold up.

Third, who says we need to control the population? As it happens, abortion (along with birth control) is not widely available in those countries with high birth rates (read: most non-Western parts of the world). This actually does pose a danger to the industrial, democratic world: we may be overrun by our declining numbers before we have a chance to spread industry and democracy to the rest of the world.

Izdari: I can go with your states' rights position, and in fact I keep voting GOP in Presidential election in the hopes that we'll get a constructionist Supreme Court, not in hopes of an amendment. Although abortion is a powerful reason for this, I think until we get such a SC, the rule of law and democracy are too vulnerable.

But I understand those who want amendments to get the courts out of legislative decisions. I just think it's ill-advised. The court can consider the amendment to mean anything it wants, just like it's done with 14 throughout its history.

I agree fully with this above.
The fact that a fetus having half of its DNA from its mother and the other half from its father should have some wieght on ones desision.

Women will decide to have abortions no matter what. It is illegal in some middle eastern countries and it is done on the streets in unsanitary conditions. If it is going to happen anyway we should have it done in our doctor's offices. I personally am against abortion but I don't think the government has the right to tell someone else if they can have one.

I do believe however that there should be limitations on the time allowed to elapse before an abortion is performed.

i am all for abortion in my opinion if a woman wants to stop herself from having a baby she can have it done. this is the same thing as cloning. its all about destroying a human life or defiling the dead.



"if i am to die i will die my way on my terms. if i want to kill i will kill my way and on my terms."