There was a very long thread (closed) about this a while back. I think it would be interesting to see where posters stand on this issue.

Thoughts?

Definately so. It is nobody's business what consenting adults do behind closed doors. The government has no business legislating and enforcing morality. The reason two people chose to have sex affects nobody. If something can be called a "victimless crime" it should not be a crime.

Most of those aspects of prostitution which are harmful (disease, violence, exploitation) would be reduced by legal, carefully regulated prostitution. It should be a high-paying, safe profession. Certainly brothels and escorts are to be preferred over streetwalkers.

Absolutely legal, and perhaps even added as a sport LOL

It is another one of those areas that the church and the goverment need to get thier noses out of stuff that is none of thier business.

Sex is legal between consenting adults. But if one of them gets paid for it, then it becomes illegal. Does that make any sense? I don't think so.

Prostitution has been called the oldest profession.
It's pretty safe to say that the demand will not be
diminshing any time soon.

Yes, it should be legalized. Women should be able
to "walk the streets" with dignity, and have better
protection, in more ways than one.

Let's see, if we legalize it, we ought to make it "safer", so we'll also need to create a whole new "Department of Prostitution Excellence" (DOPE) under the HHS, charged with making sure both the prostitute and the "john" are clean. And we'll need a way to tax them as well. In fact, this could even be the revenue generator that would help close the monster-sized hole in our federal budget! No prostitute left behind!!

I vote YES!!!

I vote for decriminalization but not legalization.

hmmm, torn here.

not to long ago on some cable station there was a documentry on prostitutes. it basically showed the physical pedestrian sex of prostitution as an occupation. never really went into the mental or emotional side of choosing such a profession. and at the end I found myself thinking if I would choose that as a profession, what would be my motivation...

I suppose until it is explained to me what pushes or motivates a young girl or woman into prostitution I just can't have a definite position on whether or not it should be illegal or legal. that to me is secondary in the line of considerations.

as always in these areas of debate I tend to localize the question rather than globalize it. were one of these girls my daughter or neice I would wonder why she chose this line of work as opposed to everything or anything else. is it a healthy choice? unhealthy choice? Or should we not even care? My bet is that I'll be told that I shouldn't care, they're adults and...yaddayadda all the rest of that. that's fine. however, I just can't help caring, I just do.

so legalizing or not legalizing is just not quite as pressing a question to this poster.

Interesting, OlympiaManet, but what does that mean? Aren't the two mutually exclusive terms? IOW...Decriminalization = legalization? Laws must be enforced, or they serve no purpose.

Did you mean mutually inclusive? The two terms are definitly exclusive of one another.

Legalization: To make legal or lawful; authorize or sanction by law.

Decriminalization: To reduce or abolish criminal penalties for: decriminalize the use of marijuana.
(Thank-you to dictionary.com)

Oly.

Yes.

Something is either legal or it isn't, right? Why do you favor reduced sentences over legalization?

No. There are things which are kinna nebulus territory... not illegal and no laws exist to regulate them. I am trying to think of an example but it's kinna hard since there are laws about just about everything... Little help?

I can tell you, most women choose prostitution because of the money. And I can say that is a pretty good motivator. Some women just like men and others just like to use men... same thing happens in real life. There are as many reasons for doing this as there are women and most of the ladies come and go quickly. Does that help?

Oly.

Yes, it should be, if someone decides to become a protstitute that is his/her own business, why not?

CP

I believe prostitution should be legal...but i dont think we should just up and say have at it folks. It should be regulated, like any industry, to keep local and large scale monopolies from forming.

As for the health and safety concerns, I believe that healthy business competitions regulate themselves. A reputably safe and clean establishment will attract more customers, so on and so forth. Government intervention is not needed there.

I can't think of any other concerns right now.


---------------------
Side note:

I believe that prostitution is morally wrong by the way, also I question the psychological effects on participants and others associated. I have no factual basis right now, but this hunch tells me early abuse is one of the factors that would lead one to choose such a profession. If true, this is sad, and I think we need to reach out to these individuals with care and understanding, not judgement.

I support the legalization of prostitution, and Oly I want to ask you, why do you support decriminalization as opposed to legalization?

Mr. Rural your side note has basis in reality! But is not always true. You are correct in assuming that prostitution businesses will regulate themselves. Especially since the invention of the internet where people feel anonymous and post to review message boards much like this one. Each profession has it's own quirks. I am sure that prostitution (from reading others descriptions) is rewarding and enlightening as well as entertaining and... sometimes hard to deal with.

Legalization means regulation. I would choose decriminalization over legalization for a number of reasons:

1.) You will never be able to regulate all of the women who shift in and out of the industry and it would be horrible to think that one could be put into jail for noncompliance. I thought they were trying to avoid the police already?

2.) If I were a prostitute, which, I am not, I would not want any type of record of my job status... most government regualted industries require paperwork which can then be traced to XYZ and then ABC... Does anyone but myself and those whom I am seeing need to know my business? No. If, as a prostitute, I told people that I was a prostitute that's one thing but I wouldn't want it to be a matter of public record. Currently, a prostitution bust means you cannot ever become a licenced massage therapist (in Texas at least) you will also have problems finding "real" work... which is why many ladies return to prostitution after being busted, etc.

3.) Clients will never submit to regulation! Ever! LOL So why should you treat a lady any differently than you would a client?

4.) By regulating the people involved you are again, sticking your nose into someone elses business. I promise, those with "bad business practices" are generally reported.

(Hope I don't come across like a ton of bricks...)

Oly.

I agree with Olympia that I do not want regulation. The form of legalization that I support is simply repealing the laws against it, not adding taxes and regulations.

I'd rather not see young girls aspiring to become prostitutes due to 1) its glamorization on television and in the movies ("Pretty Woman") and 2) because the government has legitimized it.

Whether it is made legal and health safeguards are built in or not, the idea that a young woman might consider on Career Day being penetrated by strangers to make a living is repugnant.

But it's repugnant based on your own personal morals. That is hardly a reason for something to not be legal. That is exactly why something like this should not be illegal. I personally think that the covert prostitutes (i.e. golddiggers) are about a million times worse. According to your morals, prostitution is a repugnant career choice. According to mine it is not. Do we have to agree? No. But the bottom line is it still hurts no one, and as such should not be punishable by law.

When I have a young, impressionable daughter to consider, it's reason enough for me!

Not to sound rude, but your daughter is your PERSONAL responsibility and your PERSONAL problem. Some people wouldn't care if their daughter chose to be a legal prostitute. If you want to make sure your daughter doesn't become one, raise her in a way that would make her less likely to. Either way it goes, they choice would be left to her. Once again, the laws do not need to reflect what morals you want your children to have.

Yes, my daughter is my personal responsibility. And I would appreciate it if my government is not perceived as encouraging an "anything goes" attitude in this society.

Why should an attitude of "I want what I want when I want it, and to hell with what anybody else thinks" prevail over a desire to keep the concept of right and wrong as clear and unsullied as possible?

Selfishness and greed are destroying this society. The more we feel that it is perfectly okay to destroy social mores in the quest for affluence and pleasure, the less personal responsibility for trying to make the world a better place will be evident. We will reap what we sow.

In this society, we are destroying innocence, and I don't mean the "believing in Santa Claus" type. Goodness needs to be encouraged, not ridiculed and suppressed!

How about just keeping government out of it, period, rather than making it complicit in the general degradation of our society? Prostitution has obviously flourished in spite of government interference over the centuries, so why legitimize it? Let the madams and pimps provide health insurance coverage for their girls and boys.

If hookers want some dignity, let them choose another profession that does not require them to accept anything on the street that wants to satisfy an urge.

Not when you considor that it takes AIDS/HIV a few weeks if not months to show up on tests. If you look further down the line most of these prostitute don't have any benefits like 401k or retirement plan. What happens when she goes from a top dollar whore to a $2 trick? Then there is their safety to worry about. Whats stopping these women who have just been dropped off on a corner with a bra full of money from being mugged? What about marriage? Do you think that any man would settle down with a lady that blushes at every man at the grocery store?

I voted no. Unfortunately I've seen the seedy, unhealthy and dangerous side to prostitution. Not that I was one, but in my younger and wilder days used to hang out at certain bars and associated myself with not the best of people. I've seen the darkness of desperation, violence, addiction, manipulation and control that comes with the territory of that path and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Not to change the subject but, whats the difference between a whore on the street or the whores on Joe Millionaire?

cusbilla

I understand what you're saying, P Elspeth. I don't want my children exposed to seedy influences at a young age either. Society does have an obligation to protect the innocent. Actually, it's on such a premise that societies are formed, and they wouldn't last long otherwise.

My position on prostitution comes a bit from living in Vegas. Here, prostitution within the city is illegal, but it is legal in most of Nevada. There are not 'red light districts' in every corner of town. I live in a safe neighborhood with a pleasant atmosphere for raising children. If a person chooses, they can call a brothel and make an appointment. I think this eliminates (or certainly ameliorates) the 'bad' and 'seedy' element. Women don't walk the streets in underwear trying to solicite tricks. I find the pornography peddlers who throw graphic images at my face and litter the streets with disgusting leaflets under the guise of 'free speech' much more intrusive and destructive to society. Those prostitutes don't adversely effect my life, or endanger the raising of my children in any way.

I am starting to agree with the decriminalize-but-don't-regulate idea. It's one I hadn't considered before. I would, however, insist on regulation for containment of areas where prostitution would be legal. I don't want a person operating a 'home business' brothel next to my house, or a woman soliciting tricks on the corner, for obvious reasons. I believe that would be covered until some sort of local zoning ordinance, however.

No offence, but I just don't know how any woman could condone prostitution. It's mentally, physically and emotionally damaging. It's "the oldest profession" and I thought women wanted to improve their conditions in the world? And it seems to me that whoring your self out is a step back. As long as women condone it, we'll never be considered anything more than what we limit ourselves too.

I wouldn't want to be a prostitute, but I don't think a woman should be arrested for offering the service for money. I really don't see much (if any) of a difference between the strip club industry and the prostitution industry.

Oh, I agree, there really isn't much of a difference. But unfortunately there is a thing called AIDS and violence towards women in those professions. I honestly think they should crack down on the Johns more and have harsher punishments on them, such as exposing them to the public. If you scare away the clientele, you're out of work. I know that won't happen, but that's what I would do if I was in charge.

Anyway, talk about morally detrimental to our society and our families. Prostitution and strip clubs are the epitome of it.

What consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom is nobody business. If you want morality go to a church and get out of the bedrooms of American citizens.

Why do women turn to prostitution? For many because it pays better than being a waitress or running a cash register. From the street level hooker turning tricks in the back seat of Daddy's SUV to the high price hotties of exclusive escort agencies servicing professional athletes and white collar CEO's there has always been a market for a woman who is willing to trade a view of the ceiling to make it to the top.

For all the talk of the disease, degradation and other drawbacks of sexwork, there are many who go into this with their eyes open and their perspective clear. There are a few I've interviewed for whom prostitution hasn't been an entirely bad way to make a living:

In fifteen years I've met Presidents (both U.S. and otherwise), Senators, Congressmen, Jurists of the highest courts in the land, Fortune 500 CEOs, religious leaders, and members of just about every level of law enforcement. I've had Playmates, Penthouse Pets, actresses, models, lawyers, accountants, and housewives work for me.

My net worth today is in the low- to-mid seven figures, according to my financial statement. I own property in three states and one foreign country. My taxes are now, and always have been, paid in full. I buy a new Lexus every two years, without encumbrance of any kind. My home is free and clear.

I have no debt whatsoever, and my profession was the means to this end.

Now maybe you think that's all b.s. or even if it's true having sex with strangers is an awful way to achieve that kind of success. Perhaps, but there is no one-size-fits-all path to happiness. Many people have succeeded through less than conventional means and the same applies for those who do it horizontially.

What is coming through most clearly to me in this thread is how little is known about sexworkers and what most people think they know is largely wrong.

Why is that every time morality is brought up, the church is brought up?
Isn't there a moral standard, I would presume, called SELF RESPECT AND DIGNITY?

From J.S. Mill's "On Liberty"



Yes, prostitutes may be justly punished by public opinion, but not by law.

I agree--prostitutes should not be punished as long as their customers are allowed to sneak away. Without patrons, there would be no prostitutes.

I don't want to see prostitutes punished (they get a lot of abuse as it is in their allegedly chosen profession); I just don't want my government legitimizing the behavior. It is the height of hypocrisy to punish the hooker and not the Johns.

Moral standards? What do moral standards have to do with consensual sex acts between two adults?

Because prostitution offends your standards of "self respect and dignity" Billy Jean, hardly means it offends mine. I'm not asking you to accept my moral views and I'm not saying you are wrong to hold yours.

However, I have interviewed too many women who are escorts or prostitutes or courtesans or what have you that have no issues with their dignity and self-respect. That isn't to say there aren't prostitutes who DO have problems of that sort, but there are a lot of cops, doctors, lawyers, accountants and politicians who likewise find it hard to look into the mirror.

It's just that there is such a social stigma attached to prostitution that adds to the negative imagery and stereotyping.

I would think that a woman that is out and proud as you Billy Jean who champions same-sex marriage, the adoption of children by gay couples and defending Michael Jackson from charges of being a pedophile, might understand that trying to impose morality upon for what many women decide to do with their own bodies is a form of repression and would avoid such comparisons. There are those whom are opposed to lesbians marrying, adopting children (and defending Michael Jackson) on purely moral reasons. For them "self-respect and dignity" are threatened by your advocacy of those issues I mentioned.

Yes, they do have problems that aren't being addressed, but rather fester in abusive activity that's harmful to their self esteem. I'm sorry, it angers me to see these women abuse and neglect themselves and cut themselves short of their potential. And even furthermore, it's disheartening that people would endorse it. Sure, YOU pimp yourself out for a year, if you even lived that long and see where your life ends up and see if your dreams and aspirations don't just fall to way side.

Ah, but wait, your a man, so a different set of rules apply to you. You wouldn't be considered a slut and a whore, but a stud or a gigolo.



First off, prostitution is a form of slavery and YOUNG GIRLS are sucked into it. So, actually, if an adult woman wants to throw her life away, I can't stop her. But I'm more concerned with the safety of the GIRLS going onto the street and risking their lives.
I'm not going to even give your other comments the courtesy of being responded to because the people here that know me, know my stance on those and many other issues and would disagree with you, I hope.

Furthermore, if you fail to respond to the reasons I've stated why prostitution is dangerous and just call me a hypocrite, then there's no debate, in my opinion.

Hold up there Billy Jean. Don't sing that, "Oh, you're a man so you don't know what it's like" song for me. That's would be like me saying, "Well, you're not black and you can't speak intelligently on issues that affect black people."

FULL DISCLOSURE: I wrote an article in 2001 about escorts. It was a very popular article and what helped make it so was the way I wrote it was to present the women speaking about escorting in their own words. I didn't try to spin it or edit it or sensationalize or sex it up. It was honest and candid and to this day I still receive compliments about it. What is most gratifying to me is that these compliments come from other escorts.

LILY: The article was very enlightening and the stories were very real. I do believe each one of us has a different perspective or outlook on our reasons why we are doing this.

You covered every angle in grave detail - good work and very well written to portray the industry and secret world of the oldest profession.

-----
KAREN: I read your article a couple of times. While I don't agree with everything
the ladies' said (we all have our own take on ourselves), I do appreciate
the very straight-forward and pro-woman stance you took in your article.

Additionally, I have written a non-fiction book proposal on this subject and am shopping for a literary agent.

And just as you don't have to black to be a "nigger" you can be a man and be a "whore." The problem is that calling someone a nigger or a whore isn't just a insulting slur, but a value judgement as well.

I reject the word "whore" and the casual way it is applied toward women.

So, are you not going to respond to the dangers of prostitution or just toot your own horn on a paper you haven't even provided a link too?

There are women that are sluts and men that are studs. They do it for free. Then there are women who are whores and men that are gigolos and they get paid.

I'm not talking about the casual way the terms are being applied, but the long term emotional damage prostitution can do to a woman.

I totally and completely agree with you that if you say morality, you are deemed as a religious Rightist extremist. However, in this case, it is a woman's choice to become a prostitute, and if that is the choice she wants to make, so be it.

CP

It's a free country, let her be a prostitute then. At that, hell, pimp out the teenage girls. While we're at it, there should be nothing wrong with parents pimping out they're children to eccentric pop stars.

ADDENDUM: Prostitution IS slavery especially when women are coerced into it and forced to stay in it. Any prostitution where men (or women) are profiting from the the unwilling labors of others is reprehensible and should be vigorously fought by law enforcement and society at large. Any kind of child prostitution is horrendous and should be eradicated throughout the world.

But that's not the kind of prostitution I'm defending. I didn't call you a hypocrite either Billy Jean. For the sake of clarification, what I WAS saying is personal morality (yours, mine or John Ashcroft's) have NO place in the consensual sexual activities of two adults. I am defending those women who willingly choose to become sexworkers, not those whom have a pimp threatening them into it.

That's what I'm debating and I'm sorry if you missed the point. As far as the "dangers" of prostitution, what dangers are you talking about? STD's and AIDS? A sexworker is morely likely to get tested regularly for diseases and I've yet to talk with one that engaged in sexual contact without condoms or other safe-sex practices. Between the cute next door neighbor that flirts with you and the professional sexworker who doesn't want any STD's and is soon out of business if she passes them on to others, I think the greater risk is with the "safe" neighbor.

Violence and dangerous clients? Yeah, there's a risk to every encounter for a prostititue, especially for a street-level prostitute. Most escorts have a verification process and some required very detailed background information. There are always clients who will beat, rob and assault escorts. I can't minimize that risk. However, there are women who as mothers, wives and girlfriends who are involved with violent and abusive men and are just as likely to victims of such men.

I'm not painting this rosy dreamworld where every sexworker is happy-go-lucky and living a glamourous life. But I disagree with your view Billy Jean that this is "slavery." If it is, it's a volunteered slavery for many women.

“Seems to me that most working girls make pretty good money in comparison to lower class wage slaves, but they don’t even come close to making as much as upper class professionals. Let’s face it: There are a limited number of hours in the day, a limited number of clients a woman can see and the supply and demand curves dictates prices. So unless she is savvy enough and in a position to become a madam, the average working girl will make around $100K a year. But I suspect, if the truth were known, that most actually make around half that much because so much time off is required for illness, cyclical changes and burn out. No, not everyone is cut out to do sex work. It takes a special kind of person to do it, and a really special kind of person to do it well and enjoy it. Most women that try it don’t last a week. Some don’t even last a day.”

Finally, if I were to provide a link to the article I wrote wouldn't that REALLY justify the charge that I was "tooting my own horn?"

No it wouldn't, it'd give you're argument more credibility. But I understand what you're talking about now.

And even though I don't condone it, they have a right to do it.

Maybe that because they are more likely to contract diseases, and with HIV not showing up immediately, whats keeping them from spreading it to the johns and his family. It only takes one broken condom to spread a disease. And then there is the substance abuse. The majority of all strippers that I have known have used drugs, most of them not just weed either. How can a doped up women be sure that her lover is wearing a condom.

Are you defending the ones who have better options then being a whore or the ones that have no education or experience to do anything else?

Gosh Rev_DelFuego I guess you're right.

I can't defend the actions of the disease-ridden, drug-addled, careless, uneducated, homewrecking prostitutes who infect poor johns with the ticking time bomb of HIV/AIDS so they can carry it back to their unsuspecting spouses asyou describe in your post.

I don't know any disease-ridden, drug-addled, careless, uneducated, homewrecking prostitutes. Then again, this thread IS entitled "Should prostitution be legal?" and NOT "Should it be legal to pay for prostitution?"

That would be putting the burden of responsibility on the men--the johns who enable prostitution to exist and flourish. But that would be blaming the man and why would we want to do that when it's so much easier to slam these women of questionable character who flaunt their wares and lure these innocent guys to their doom?

Sheesh.

Hehe, I have to agree with nighttimer on that one. If these men had more scruples about themselves they wouldn't have to worry about alot of the messes that come along with engaging with a prostitute.

Why do you insist that everyone thinks the way you do? How do you know that prostitutes have problems or are engaged in activities that are harmful to their self-esteem?

Heck, according to a lot of churches, SO ARE YOU!

This is MY OPINION and I'm intittled to it, THANKYOU very much. And for your piece of information, I've had friends that were prostitutes and I've seen their lives FIRST HAND.

Again, why is the CHURCH being brought into this?!! I've NEVER brought it up, YOU DID! It seems to me that YOU'RE the one with the hangup over churches and religion, it's not involved in this debate.

I know plenty of them. Telephone rd. and Scott st. in Houston to name a few places.

I at no time tried to defend the johns. There just as responible as whores in creating the problem. I'm just saying that legalizing prostitution just give women an easy self destructive way out. Some of these women are intelligent enough to make it out if they try but stay in due to the money that usually runs out. Then there is the issue of them one day finding a family. What person would want to share their partner with their neighbrhood? And what type of example would they be providing for their children?

Neither a man or woman need be a prostitute to have been the neighborhood door knob. And for those door knobs who go on to raise families, there is no obligation on their part to disclose their every sexcapade to their children. This position appears to be no more an argument against legalized prostitution than an argument for legally prohibiting free promiscuity. And I believe that would be in violation of our constitutional rights.

I found some statistics regarding the number of streetwalkers there are compared to the number of escorts, because as I understand it these are two very different kinds of prostitution and they should be treated differently in a discussion like this.



PENet: Prostitution Statistics Just as an FYI, the link I provided actually downloads the html file to your temporary internet file folder. I'm assuming that this has something to do with the subject matter, so open it at your own discretion. I would have liked to have provided a different link, but this information isn't easy to come by.