Ok, so Christmas is coming. (That's how I justified placing this in the current events forum if anyone is wondering...)

All around the world people are plugging in millions of little tiny lights that say "I like christmas." When are we as a society going to recognize that wasting millions of watts of electricity (especially when YOUR use effects the price that other peoplepay) is harmful? While those lights are burning plants are churning out CO2 and someone is skimping on groceries to pay the heating bill.

When are we as a society going to recognize that christmas lights are an inexcusable waste?

Even as a child I asked my parents why people put lights all over their homes and yard. I don't mind lights on a tree inside, but I agree with UJ on the lights outside as a complete waste of electricity.

Not only are they an inexcusable waste, they are unutterably tacky. Further, I have long detested the secularization of Christmas - and the crass commercialism that accompanies it. I'm sure someone somewhere could come up with some sacred link between the birth of Christ and hundreds of yards of multi-colored lightbulbs, but I'll bet you that not one in a hundred of those stringing such seasonal eyesores together could tell you what it is. What it appears to be to me is a wanton display of affluence - like who in the housing estate can afford the biggest, cheesiest lawn ornaments.

To the extent that there is a religious component at all, it is the religion of the Pharisees. It's like screaming "Look at me! I'm the best Christian on the block - I've wasted more electricity and created a more atrocious bit of visual pollution than anyone else!" I say if people want to wear their religion on their eaves, they should be taxed for it - by the bulb - and those taxes should specifically go into researching energy conservation.

Yes, they're tacky, yes, they're a secularization/commercialization of Xmas... or worse, a pathetic attempt to have as much fun as the Pagan's have during their winter party....

But, geez, lighten up! It's supposed to be fun for the kids! Don't get your underwear all bunched up over a few watts.

I love all the lights. I particularly enjoy the reactions from the passersby as they stop to gaze at mine. Sometimes I feel as if I was meant to share my creativity with them. I can't count the number of times my doorbell has been rung and I'm greeted by carolers who tell me they make it a point to come our house each and every year.

It's the only time of year I feel truly at one with the universe.

I agree with amf. They are a tacky waste, but the kids love them, and they can really brighten up a neighborhood and town center. The waste is really minimal compared to all of the other fluff in this world.

Christmas lights, while seeming to be a wasteful tradition, actually play a a much more important role:

Christmas lights give the appearance that you are home.

Here's an article from one of my local news stations (don't laugh, we're a pretty small city ):

Holiday Crime Hits Whitemarsh Island

The article details the mugging of a woman at Wal-mart, and the burglary several homes in the vicinity.

The article states:



Why do people put flood lights on their home? Because they add security and give the appearance you are home, even when you are not. Why do people put motion lights on their home? Because they add security and give the appearance you are home, even when you are not. Why do people put up Christmas lights? To celebrate the season.

But that doesn't negate the fact that a well-lit house is a criminal deterrent.

So, Joe, got any evidence that these Christmas lights are an "inexcusable waste?

Mike

Well the best way to quantify if it is a waste is if there is a more efficient way to achieve the same result, no? As you said, a motion sensor-equppied light or indoor lights on a timer achieve the same result of illuminating the home and deterring criminals with far less consumption.

But, motion lights clearly don't stand to celebrate the season. They are exclusively to provide security.

Should we only allow electrical consumption for necessary reasons?

If so, I think we should all turn off our computers and go outside. And shut that music off, would you? Whistling or humming in the dark is much more energy efficient

There are a thousand reasons why I think we should conserve energy, but Christmas lights aren't anywhere near the top of the list. I'd actually be willing to bet that those who live in cold climates and don't hang Christmas lights use more energy than those who live in milder climates and do hang Christmas lights. Just a hunch, though.

On a side note, I've really missed debating you, Joe. Nice heavy topic to get back at it...


Mike

Are they "fun for the kids"? What kids? Does anyone have a source for this?

Okay, this is anecdotal, but as I child, I hated being dragged away from a book or the tube to be bundled into the car to drive around "looking at the lights". My siblings, as far as I could tell, felt the same. It struck us as an excuse to get the parents out of the house for an evening. Thinking that such displays are a trashy waste of time is not something I grew into.

Even then, "the lights" went up maybe two weeks before Christmas. Wasteful, yeah, but just about manageable. This year, my neighborhood had several houses lit up like, well, Christmas trees within a week of Hallowe'en! And the rest were in place immediately following Thanksgiving. Not only is this a waste, it is becoming progressively more wasteful.

Every year for the past five years or so, Disney-MGM Studios has hosted "The Osborne Family Lights" (no, not those Osbournes - and not those Osbornes, either). This is some family whose Christmas display got so over-the-top that their extensive property could no longer support it and it had to be moved to a theme park. I have twice been dragged along to this abomination - "Over a Million Lights!!" - and on each occasion have noted dozens, perhaps hundreds, of cranky, screaming, crying children who wanted nothing more than to go home. The people who seemed to be having all the "fun" were the deranged adults taking thousands of flash pictures of enough electricity being wasted to light several dozen homes for a year.

This year, because the area of the park where the Osborne Lights are usually displayed is undergoing renovation, this celebration of the luridly vulgar has been cancelled. All I can say is "Thank Christ!" - a sentiment expressed to the sound of a collective sigh of relief from the children of central Florida - and the Reedy Creek Improvement District, which is charge of coming up with enough kilowatts to keep the damned thing running for six weeks.

I think that blaming children for the indulgences of their parents is a bit unfair. There are lots of ways to enjoy quality time with one's children without hundreds of homes wasting tons of energy - especially at this time of year. Take them to see municipal displays. Go to a tree farm and select a Christmas tree. Build a snowman. Address Christmas cards together. Go sledding. Read them some Christmas stories. Let them help with interior decoration. Take them to see relatively tasteful - and energy efficient - live nativity scenes (hey - that's even got something to do with Christmas!). But why allow so much waste for something which - in my experience, at least - the kids don't actually like.

I'm not even going to get in to the loftier reaches of this debate as scaled by Joe and Mike.



Oh - and it never occurred to me that these things might also contribute to noise pollution in the form of carollers. Carollers! Another reason I'll never indulge in this grotesque and wasteful display - and another very good argument for the individual right to bear arms.

Humbug!

This thread is in desperate need of evidence and sources. Twenty minutes on google and I was able to come up with some home energy usage numbers for us to debate.

Here is a December 2002 press release from the DOE/Oak Ridge National Lab: LINK

Here are the cost averages the DOE calculated for a a thirty day/7hours per day outdoor "light display of 10 strings of 100 miniature lights and one 100-watt lighted Santa (510 watts total) in various parts of the country":



Here are energy use estimates from EPCOR, an Edmonton, CA energy company regarding outdoor Christmas lights (note, it's in Canadian dollars):

Here is a third source I discovered - Lamar Energy, in Barnesville, GA, LINK. Here is their evaluation of the cost of Christmas lights on one’s overall monthly energy bill:


You’ll see the range of cost estimates are pretty broad depending on the source you chose.

I chose to use home energy usage numbers because it represents a portion of overall energy consumption and we really needed SOMETHING to work with here. I also chose it because it represents one's PERSONAL choice to determine if s/he will spend the money on lights. This is especially important in light of such statements like Joe's from his original post here:
This statement skews the issue and is really a non sequitur. Citizen A's choice to use lights and possibly emit extra CO2 into the environment does not directly effect Citizen B's choice to starve or use Christmas lights as Joe seems to indicate. I don't see the sequence here or how one relates to the other. Perhaps you could clarify?

I also attempted to find numbers that support or dismiss the idea that Christmas light usage is taxing our overall power grids and increasing the amount of CO2 in the air as Joe alleges. I found no examples of major power outages or brownouts that have been caused by the burden of Christmas lights alone. Such black/brown outs are MUCH more likely to happen during summer seasons when many turn on the air conditioning.

My personal conclusion is that the energy costs created by Christmas lights are negligible in relation to other energy costs. So when are:

I think the answer is - not anytime soon because Christmas lights can't be demonstrated to be an inexcusable waste. It’s pretty common knowledge by now that Energy Star rated appliances and properly insulated homes are much better sources of conserving home energy usage. So, unless you’re Clark Griswold, hang your lights and enjoy the season if that’s what you like to do. Don’t let the Scrooges guilt you into darkness.

In alaska we are encouraged to put up lights and leave them up all winter, this is to add brightness in what otherwise would a period of very long darkness.

Since december for the rest of the country is also the darkest month of the year, decorating with little lights makes sense to brighten up the place. Winter in many parts is bleak. The lights are a way to cheer spirits and bring color to a period of colorlessness, except for those that hate them of course.

The price that people pay for their energy is determined not by their use, but by the use of everyone on the grid. By failing to conserve we each contribute a small amount to the price; a price which can be and is prohibitive to some people.

Show me some evidence that the extra demand caused by the use of Christmas lights drives up the price of electricity by any significant number. I am sure that summertime is the peak period for electricitity use in most of the US.

As Mike inferred, "waste" is pretty subjective. When my son is listing to rap music he is wasting energy. When I am listening to George Jones I am getting a great value for a small price. When people watch "Friends" they are wasting energy. When I watch "The Red Green Show" I am getting a great bang for the buck.

I love christmas lights and I worry about energy consumption - so when starting my large christmas display a few years back I researched these problems. Overall, I came to the conclusion that the christmas lights - if using the mini-lights or the new LED lights - are fairly energy efficient and use a negligible amount of energy.
The following article gives a good assessment of the costs of various lights:
http://www.flintenergies.com/content/newsd....asp?newsID=100

Plus, in my house, we tend not to use as many indoor lights when all of the christmas lights go up - so we probably save a little money - but I would have to wait till I get my december bill. Plus, I strictly believe in energy conservation for heating and AC units. I bet people forgetting to change the filter on their AC causes more increased energy consumption that christmas lights going up

http://www.energy.iastate.edu/news/pr/pr-acmaintenance.html

There should be some public information campaign to inform people changin their filters is not just good for their health, but good for the energy economy and therefore good for the country

And the biggest offenders would have to be southern malls - why do they have to run the AC so much people have to take a sweater with them to go the mall in the middle of 110 degree summer weather?? This seems like much more of a public menace as far as energy wasting than my few hundred christmas lights (and yes, there is a connection to the spirit of christmas for me - I can always explain it in a personal message).

Another major menace would be computer usage...
http://www.eere.energy.gov/femp/procurement/computer.html

How many of you have disabled or greatly delayed your computer's sleep mode because it is a pain to deal with? You have just increased the energy cost by $7 per year - so I guess if I wanted to rationalize putting up the christmas lights, I could put up almost 1800 mini lights (using the $2.4 estimate for 600 lights burning 150 hours - or 4-6 hrs for 31 days) and not use any more energy so long as I use proper energy saving methods with my computer like turning off my monitor, etc.

Never.

In my city (i'm sure this is done in many others), we have a competition EVERY year on who's exterior decorations is better. The newspaper sponsors it.

There are 2 families who live next door to each other who are ALWAYS on the ballot. It's like an annual feud. These 2 add more and more every year.

The prize is $500....enough to pay their power bill

Who says it's just for the parents, Wertz? Or is that Scrooge?

When we lived where you do, one of our favorite things was to go each year to the College Park area, where there was a whole neighborhood (about 3 blocks long) that got into the exterior lighting spirit. Each and every house, both sides of the street in this area participated, with everything from lit nativity scenes to Santa on the Roof, complete with reindeer. It was one of my daughter's favorite things to do each year.

Now that we are back up north, we do a lot of the other things now, because we can (hard to build a snowman in Florida, and Florida scrub pine makes for lousy trees). But one of the things we've still done is light up our house, and take a trip though some of the other neighborhoods to see what others have done.

Ok, so it's a bit of a waste of electricity. But for us, anyway, it's a lot of fun too, since we all join in.