Story here...

What does everyone think of this? Should illegal aliens be allowed to collect Social Security benefits?

Not at all. If they are here illegally then they definitely have no right to benefit from it. I am not sure how I would view like in the link that you provided about the legal immigrants being able to go back to mexico and still collect social security and vice versa for Americans. But when they are here illegally I definitely say no.

For several reasons, our social security system is already hurting, why promote people to break the law which in fact we are doing when we are not enforcing our immigration laws, and their are already several benefits that the illegal immigrants are abusing that we are paying for.

This is a tricky question, one that needs a little more context behind it. If we follow the rules of supply and demand, we would find that the "demand" of immigrants coming into this country would be small if the "supply"(i.e.-employers who take advantage of immigrants by paying them less, with no benefits, and threaten to deport them if they come back on the boss) did not exist. Solve this, and the whole language, social security, and drivers license concerns disappears. We have a love-hate relationship with these people. We love it when they clean our hotel rooms, work our 7-11s, work the kill floor of a meat packing plant(that us lazy white people won't do )But we hate it when they have a piece of the American dream that the rest of us have. It smells of class resentment if you ask me. Joe and Jane "keeping up with the Jones's) feels a sense of shame that Jose & Marta might pass them in middle-class hood. The real issue is why our immigration policy is so horrible and needs to be revamped. We can modify immigration and help these people become citizens, or we can bury our heads in the sand and refuse to consider that without them-we would have negative population growth and be dependent upon foreigners for jobs(like Germany, etc.)

Shouldn't the whole premise of them being ILLEAGAL immigrants make it impossible for them to receive the benefits that only LEAGAL Americans receive? These people break laws to get into the country, and they should not be allowed to take advantage of our programs.

CP

I am confused by the focus on illegals in regards to this issue. I don't understand why the question is linked to this article. Appears to me to be a tactic to stir up racial feelings and xenophobic beliefs in order to gather opposition to an issue that has nothing to do with illegal immigrants. From the article itself...



This already happens.



So why are we asking if we think they should? Please explain why this becomes an issue of illegal immigration.

Denying drivers licenses and stuff like that will not stem the tide of illegals. Fighting immigration is like the old idea of prohibition-it doesn't work, and worse often occurs because of it. With prohibition, you had the mafia obtaining funds to build up even more resources. By denying illegals licenses and the like, you create a whole under world of trade in forged documents and other items. By accomodating them and making sure that are accorded a decent wage and benefits, you do the right thing without spawning another business that only criminals enjoy.

bucket,



Perhaps this will shed some light on your confusion (as well as reveal the true agenda, IMHO).

I am curious--does any other government in the world ever give retirement benefits (or other such bennies) to illegal immigrants?

I already stated what the I felt the true agenda of this article is. Any rate I don't believe it..simple as that. I don't believe that illegal immigrants will be allowed SS and I don't believe that the current laws allow this..because if that was true then it is already happening because we have this totalization thing going on with a bunch of other countries already and illegal immigrants are not only Mexican. I would like to see proof that " a provision in the Social Security Act allows undocumented immigrants to get Social Security benefits if the United States and another country have a totalization agreement." I looked but all I kept finding was this same article reprinted in various "news" sources. Yet funny enough the one legit news source I found this reported in did not include the little scare tactic, inciting comments about illegals.

No 1

What is this term 'ilegal aliens' where are they from Mars?

No 2

America was founded by a bunch evil rapist, murdering imperialists from Europe. There's only one group of people with a true claim of being American. That's the Indigeonous Americans. Or natives of Turtle Island as it was called then.

No 3

How does anyone have the right to call anyone Ilegal? If the people in this world were allowed to travel and live wherever they wanted, evil regimes like the one in residency in the whitehouse would soon fall.

Break down the borders!!!!!

I see the payment of SS to illegal aliens as a further erosion in the immigration system. Why would you reward criminals with a payment from the government. We know that many and perhaps the majority of illegal aliens send a large part of their earnings out of the country as it is.


As for the idea that the US was founded by “evil racists” – I say bunk to that idea. Care to post some proof of that claim?

And as far as our “right” to call anyone “illegal” – it is a nice feature of our political system. We get to make laws and to break them is “illegal” and therefore people who come into the US illegally are “illegal aliens”

But then I am sure you know that.

Topic/Question: What does everyone think of this? Should illegal aliens be allowed to collect Social Security benefits?

America is a nation of laws. Crashing our borders shows a lack of respect for our country and our laws. The very notion of "illegal" means one is committing a crime.

So the answer is no. Rewarding criminals is absurd. America welcomes the immigrant, but come here properly.

I totally agree with you TeacherSays. Sort of on the same topic I wonder how you feel about Bush policy on Immigration reform? Do you agree that this is a wrong policy for the illegals or should the government crack down?

I do believe that this is the wrong policy and that the government needs to crack down.

Here's a link with the story

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106761,00.html
Immigration Reform Considered After Ridge Hints at Amnesty

The only benefit illegal aliens should receive is a one-way ticket back to their country of origin. No one should be rewarded for breaking our laws. Awarding illegals the same benefits that citizens and legal residents receive is also unfair to the thousands who enter this country every year legally, and work for their citizenship or visa.

Cadman: Thank you for the link. I was stunned when I heard Ridge say this. It almost shows us how out-of-touch our leaders can be with mainstream America regardless of party affiliation.

Your question: I wonder how you feel about Bush policy on Immigration reform? Do you agree that this is a wrong policy for the illegals or should the government crack down?

Ill answer it like this. The idea of giving "legal status" in my opinion is insane. Make criminals legal? Yes indeed, bad policy. And yes again. Our leaders need to seriously crack down, now. The borders need to be closed, now. I also agree with Palidin. Deport them, now. One can only imagine the serious consequences on the horizon if we don't. In my opinion, the Bush administration is really playing with fire here. GWB would do well to take a lesson from the "terminator" on this one.

Oh yes exactly TeacherSays and Paladin. What is even scarier is like Davis in California is Bush is hoping to get the support from the Hispanic's more which are actually against it if they have come to this county legally.

There seems to be a notion that illegal immigrants are taking something without paying for it. Well, a lot of them have social security taken out of their paychecks just like everyone else. Not all of them work under the table. So quit accusing them of stealing your tax money because they pay taxes too.

How are illegal immigrants on proper payrolls anyway?

There seems to be the problem in the first place.

If they are getting taxes and social security taken out of their checks, it's because they are using a STOLEN SS number. They cannot be here illegally and have a SS number. So, that would be two crimes they've committed to work here.

That is incorrect. You can legally pay taxes in the US without the need of a SS#. The tax ID number has been employed by the US govt. for well over 5 yrs now and is said to have over 5 million participants. So we legally take taxes from people that we know are here living and working illegally. And everyone here is complaining about one particular groups hypocrisy....oh yeah all sounds fair and balanced to me.

Yes, Bucket, you can get a tax ID number from the IRS, but what it was originally intended for, and still used for in the majority of instances, are for temporary employees in the US. Visiting professors, H1-B visa holders and the like.

There may be individual offices where illegal immigrants go to obtain these tax IDs, but I can assure you that most of those 5 million ID's issued so far, are for legitimate visitors to this country, not illegals.

And if we are legally taking taxes from those that are here illegally, it's by their own doing. They voluntarily went and got this tax ID number. That doesn't make them legal, however, except as far as the IRS is concerned.

I don't see any hypocrisy from most of the members here at all. I don't think the IRS should be issuing documents to collect taxes from illegal immigrants that should not be here in the first place. The IRS needs to turn over the records of everyone they know to be here illegally to the INS. And I'd vote every congressman who allowed this insanity out of office, if I could. If you're here illegally, you need to be arrested, deported, and forced to come back though legal means, if possible. If you're not eligible, too bad.

Well I was behaving myself actually with that comment and it was not in any way meant to be taken as a personal attack on anyone here...it was directed to the other group of the debate..the American Govt. I think the American govt is extremely hypocritical in regards to this issue.




Incorrect...again. isn't it amazing the amount of misinformation that circulates as fact on this issue?

To quote our friends at the IRS themselves...

source

Sorry but the IRS knows full well what these ITINs are being used for and they essentially created them for that reason. It is a policy decision that was quietly made. Illegals were encouraged to apply and use them. They figured the least they could do was to get these people to follow US tax laws.


Well it is illegal for them to do so. I mean if we are going to be all up in arms about following the law might as well follow the laws ourselves...right?

Reading for your pleasure...
IRS Keeps Tabs on Illegal Immigrant Filers


To quote something interesting from the above article..

How is what I said incorrect, Bucket? From your own cited source:



The requirements for who needs an ITIN covers every example I listed in my previous post, and then some. Illegals may be using it, and that may be what the IRS intended, but that's not who they have listed as needing an ITIN. There are a whole lot more legal visitors here, making money legally, through visiting scholarships, relatives of H1-B visa holders, etc., who cannot get a SSN, but who need to report income for tax purposes. That's why I say a majority of those obtaining the ITIN's are most likely legitimate usage, and not illegal immigrants.



Yes, I am quite aware that it is currently illegal for the IRS to turn over information to another agency. What I am saying is, it shouldn't be, at least as far as illegals are concerned. Why give them the benefit of our economy and our laws when they are not here legally?

What part of "illegal" do you not understand? These people are criminals, and should be treated as such, not treated with deference and more compassion by the government than they are willing to show their own citizens.

I have a better idea, make everyone working in a U S A Corp. owned factory regardless of where it is located pay Social Security taxes, That would end the funding crisis in Social Security and cure one reason the factories are leaving.

The current age for Retirement benifts, I believe is 72 in the not to far distant future, hell who lives that long in 3rd World Countries.

Interesting isn't it , how these Benifit Programs work, you qualify at the age of Normal life Spans End.

Again your first post had incorrect information. Those who come to work in our country on a work visa much like a H1B do in fact receive a SS#.

I understand that many people use the ITIN legally...yet the point you are missing is that illegal immigrants who use this number to file and pay taxes are using it legally too. The ITIN makes no judgement on your immigration status..it is a way to make those who are living in our country illegally or not pay taxes. Illegal immigrants using this is a legitimate use.... and whether you want to admit it is or not..it is the main purpose of this policy.



That is really a very separate debate because I think it has a lot more to do with privacy rights.
I completely disagree with you on that tho. I understand that some Americans are more than willing to relinquish their rights in order to feel more secure...but many others are not.



I understand what illegal means and I understand that these people are living and working illegally in the US but I also understand that they are in fact legally paying taxes. I find it a bit odd that you feel the requirement to pay taxes is a show of compassion by the gov. I just find it to be the govt.'s acceptance of the reality of this situation...and the hypocritical stance our govt often takes on this issue.

The IRS issues a tax number to peopl ewho can't get a social security number. Many of these tax numbers are issued to people who are here illegally.

According to this article:

The government doesn't track how many undocumented immigrants have been issued the nine-digit numbers, and officials note that not everyone who seeks one is undocumented. Some are foreign students or researchers who are in the country under temporary, legal visas. By law, the agency is barred from routinely sharing data on taxpayers with federal immigration officials.

That's put the IRS numbers in the middle of a debate over what to do about the estimated 9 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States. Advocates say allowing them to get financial services and drive legally makes communities safer for everyone. But critics argue the tax number just makes it easier for illegal immigrants, who shouldn't be in the United States in the first place, to meld into society.

Illegal immigrants should not be granted these 9 digit numbers. They should instead be reported to immigration and deported.

All business and Corporations use a Tax I D Number, anyone can get one.

There is even a little Credit Repair scheme going on, on how to get New credit by using a Tax I D number instead of a SS number. It does not work.