Full Version: Is Dean pro-war?
I receive e-mail updates from the various campaigns, some are more annoying than others, but I guess that I asked for it. I received an e-mail from the Kerry campaign stating that Howard Dean supported a bill that although different from the passed war resolution, is similar in nature in that after a last ditch effort to get the UN on board, that the president would have to make the final determination on the matter.
"The Massachusetts senator said Dean backed the resolution by Sens. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and Joe Biden, D-Del., that would have urged Bush to get a new U.N. resolution to enforce weapons inspections in Iraq. If the United Nations had declined, the president would have had to make a formal determination that the Iraqi threat was so serious that the use of military force would be necessary."
Questions
1.)Is this a desparate effort by Kerry to hurt Dean?
2.)Is there any truth to the accusation that Mr. Dean has not been consistently anti-war as he states that he is?
"The Massachusetts senator said Dean backed the resolution by Sens. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and Joe Biden, D-Del., that would have urged Bush to get a new U.N. resolution to enforce weapons inspections in Iraq. If the United Nations had declined, the president would have had to make a formal determination that the Iraqi threat was so serious that the use of military force would be necessary."
Questions
1.)Is this a desparate effort by Kerry to hurt Dean?
2.)Is there any truth to the accusation that Mr. Dean has not been consistently anti-war as he states that he is?
What Kerry is saying is also my understanding of Dean's position. Basically, Dean was appauled that Congress was so quick to give a "blank check" to the Administration to pursue a war without getting a UN vote or providing further information about the so-called "intelligence" that always seemed to be hidden behind a veil of secrecy.
Now, since the Administration didn't do that, we'll never know if Dean would have had any other qualifications before going to war.
Dean has been clear as well: he supported Gulf I, he supported going into Afghanistan. He's not "anti-war". He -- like many others at the time -- wanted more than what the Administration was doing when it concerned Iraq.
Now, since the Administration didn't do that, we'll never know if Dean would have had any other qualifications before going to war.
Dean has been clear as well: he supported Gulf I, he supported going into Afghanistan. He's not "anti-war". He -- like many others at the time -- wanted more than what the Administration was doing when it concerned Iraq.
As well as to finish what we started in Afghanistan and the search for Bin Ladin.
Amf is correct Dean has never said he is Anti-War.
Amf is correct Dean has never said he is Anti-War.
QUOTE(amf @ Dec 11 2003, 01:37 PM)
What Kerry is saying is also my understanding of Dean's position. Basically, Dean was appauled that Congress was so quick to give a "blank check" to the Administration to pursue a war without getting a UN vote or providing further information about the so-called "intelligence" that always seemed to be hidden behind a veil of secrecy.
AMF,
I think what DesertResident is asking is: Did Dean support this Iraqi War ever?
I wondered the same thing because this morning I heard Senator Kerry saying that Dean has flip-flopped on this subject (as well as others).
Dean and Gore both claimed that Dean "never supported the war". However it is becoming clear that at some point or another he may have. I don't know. That's what we're trying to get to the bottom of.
Dean didn't want to start the war, but he doesn't want to lose it either. So, he's pro war now isn't he?
Dean has never supported the Iraq war the way Bush has put us into it but has said if we had the UN or NATO involved from the start he would have. Here's a direct from his website and since he has come on the spot light for running for President this view has never changed one bit.
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageSer...atement_foreign
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageSer...atement_foreign
QUOTE
Under George W. Bush, this nation has lost its way. Not only are we less secure at home and abroad, we have squandered our role as the inspiration and guiding light for other peoples. I seek to restore America’s rightful place in the world and its moral leadership in world affairs.
We remain the sole superpower in the world. As Madeleine Albright once put it, we are the "indispensable power" for addressing so many of the challenges around the world. But we cannot lead the world by force, and we cannot go it alone. We must lead toward clearly articulated and shared goals and with the cooperation and respect of friends and allies.
I seek to restore the best traditions of American leadership. Leadership in which our power is multiplied by the appeal of democratic ideals and by the knowledge that our country is a force for law around the world, not a law unto itself.
I will not divide the world into us versus them. Rather, I will rally the world around fundamental principles of decency, responsibility, freedom, and mutual respect. Our foreign and military policy must be about the notion of America leading the world, not America against the world.
I opposed President Bush’s war in Iraq from the beginning. While Saddam Hussein’s regime was clearly evil and needed to be disarmed, it did not present an immediate threat to U.S. security that would justify going to war, particularly going to war alone. From the beginning, I felt that winning the war would not be the hard part; winning the peace would be. This Administration failed to plan for the postwar period as it did for the battle, and today we are paying the price.
We remain the sole superpower in the world. As Madeleine Albright once put it, we are the "indispensable power" for addressing so many of the challenges around the world. But we cannot lead the world by force, and we cannot go it alone. We must lead toward clearly articulated and shared goals and with the cooperation and respect of friends and allies.
I seek to restore the best traditions of American leadership. Leadership in which our power is multiplied by the appeal of democratic ideals and by the knowledge that our country is a force for law around the world, not a law unto itself.
I will not divide the world into us versus them. Rather, I will rally the world around fundamental principles of decency, responsibility, freedom, and mutual respect. Our foreign and military policy must be about the notion of America leading the world, not America against the world.
I opposed President Bush’s war in Iraq from the beginning. While Saddam Hussein’s regime was clearly evil and needed to be disarmed, it did not present an immediate threat to U.S. security that would justify going to war, particularly going to war alone. From the beginning, I felt that winning the war would not be the hard part; winning the peace would be. This Administration failed to plan for the postwar period as it did for the battle, and today we are paying the price.
Oh, I didn't realize that.
I guess he is a lot more pro-war than my comment suggested.
I guess he is a lot more pro-war than my comment suggested.
Dean's not pro-war. He's not 'pro' anything. He's anti-Bush. That is the sum and substance of his campaign to date. A supposedly angry man who wants to oust Bush.
That plays well right now. But if he gets the nomination we'll see how far out-of-touch he is with what Americans want.
That plays well right now. But if he gets the nomination we'll see how far out-of-touch he is with what Americans want.
That is simply an uninformed comment. Dean has waffled some on his statements about Hussein, but that does not mean that he is not pro anything. He has been transparent areas of policy and about what he is for.
I simple visit to his website will show you some positions that he has marked out and they have been there for at least six months. Of course he is anti-Bush in terms of wanting him out of office.
But that does not mean that your comment was close to be correct. It was simply a quick dismissal and a statement of the way you hope to see the situation.
I simple visit to his website will show you some positions that he has marked out and they have been there for at least six months. Of course he is anti-Bush in terms of wanting him out of office.
But that does not mean that your comment was close to be correct. It was simply a quick dismissal and a statement of the way you hope to see the situation.
QUOTE
I simple visit to his website will show you some positions that he has marked out and they have been there for at least six months. Of course he is anti-Bush in terms of wanting him out of office.
But that does not mean that your comment was close to be correct. It was simply a quick dismissal and a statement of the way you hope to see the situation.
But that does not mean that your comment was close to be correct. It was simply a quick dismissal and a statement of the way you hope to see the situation.
Sure thats all well and good for those of us that are really interested and will do the research. However, Joe American doesn't surf the internet to find out where all the candidates stand on the issues. Joe American gets his information from the evening news (also some CNN), and the occasional debate inbetween commercial breaks of the newest episode of "Survivor" (fill in your favorite reality show). What that amounts to is a bunch of finger pointing and name calling of Bush and the other candidates. Who is gonna vote for Howard Dean based on that? (other than some very Anti-Bush liberals)
Not only that Venom but just going into the Dean website is is nothing but anti-Bush. You actually have to dig to find where this guy stands on something...if any Democrat actually does without taking a poll first.
cusbilla
cusbilla
Cusbilla I guess that is true if you call pointing an clicking digging around.
From the deanforamerica page in the first column there is a menu that includes on the issues. Click on that and the following options are available to look at.
While it is true that Dean starts with what is wrong with present policy in his opinion, I don't see a good reason to run for president if you think the present administration is doing everything just fine. Each section has Dead's position on what should be done.
On the Issues
Agriculture
Campaign Financing
Civil Rights & Justice
Economy
Education
Environment
Health
Labor
Native Americans
Security/Foreign Policy
Women
One example is in the Economy link where this series of policies is posted.
I personally wouldn't call that having to dig around for Dean's position on the issues.
From the deanforamerica page in the first column there is a menu that includes on the issues. Click on that and the following options are available to look at.
While it is true that Dean starts with what is wrong with present policy in his opinion, I don't see a good reason to run for president if you think the present administration is doing everything just fine. Each section has Dead's position on what should be done.
On the Issues
Agriculture
Campaign Financing
Civil Rights & Justice
Economy
Education
Environment
Health
Labor
Native Americans
Security/Foreign Policy
Women
One example is in the Economy link where this series of policies is posted.
QUOTE
Repeal the Bush tax cuts, and use those funds to pay for universal health care, homeland security, and investments in job creation that benefit all Americans.
Set the nation on the path to a balanced budget, recognizing that we cannot have social or economic justice without a sound fiscal foundation.
Create a fairer and simpler system of taxation.
Assure that Social Security and Medicare are adequately funded to meet the needs of the next generation of retirees.
Set the nation on the path to a balanced budget, recognizing that we cannot have social or economic justice without a sound fiscal foundation.
Create a fairer and simpler system of taxation.
Assure that Social Security and Medicare are adequately funded to meet the needs of the next generation of retirees.
I personally wouldn't call that having to dig around for Dean's position on the issues.
QUOTE(Eeyore @ Dec 13 2003, 05:47 PM)
One example is in the Economy link where this series of policies is posted.
QUOTE
Repeal the Bush tax cuts, and use those funds to pay for universal health care, homeland security, and investments in job creation that benefit all Americans.
Set the nation on the path to a balanced budget, recognizing that we cannot have social or economic justice without a sound fiscal foundation.
Create a fairer and simpler system of taxation.
Assure that Social Security and Medicare are adequately funded to meet the needs of the next generation of retirees.
Set the nation on the path to a balanced budget, recognizing that we cannot have social or economic justice without a sound fiscal foundation.
Create a fairer and simpler system of taxation.
Assure that Social Security and Medicare are adequately funded to meet the needs of the next generation of retirees.
I personally wouldn't call that having to dig around for Dean's position on the issues.
Ok, you convinced me that he does have a position. He wants to raise taxes. And he doesnt have the guts to say that, instead its 'repeal Bush's tax cuts'.
No guts, no glory, kick him to the curb!
Repeal tax cut is the best way he could go about saying he wants to raise taxes while having it mean something else?Come on! He is saying that if you are going to try to get credit for a spending measure that provides services to some, you must pay for it somehow or you are taxing the next generation unfairly.
It is also BTW a way of saying that Bush's tax cuts were wrong for our country. We live in a time of increasing disparity between the rich and the poor. That trend landed us in the Great Depression the last time it was encouraged during the trend.
Not only does he say he is going to raise taxes, he has the guts to say specifically how he is going to do it.
Eeyore,
You make my point for me. The first page should be something thats positive and not negative. Someone needs to teach internet boy's staff something about marketing 101. The fact I have to dig through the muck is self evident and kinda ignorant.
cusbilla
You make my point for me. The first page should be something thats positive and not negative. Someone needs to teach internet boy's staff something about marketing 101. The fact I have to dig through the muck is self evident and kinda ignorant.
cusbilla
QUOTE(Passion51 @ Dec 13 2003, 06:16 PM)
QUOTE
Repeal the Bush tax cuts, and use those funds to pay for universal health care, homeland security, and investments in job creation that benefit all Americans.
Set the nation on the path to a balanced budget, recognizing that we cannot have social or economic justice without a sound fiscal foundation.
Create a fairer and simpler system of taxation.
Assure that Social Security and Medicare are adequately funded to meet the needs of the next generation of retirees.
Set the nation on the path to a balanced budget, recognizing that we cannot have social or economic justice without a sound fiscal foundation.
Create a fairer and simpler system of taxation.
Assure that Social Security and Medicare are adequately funded to meet the needs of the next generation of retirees.
Ok, you convinced me that he does have a position. He wants to raise taxes. And he doesnt have the guts to say that, instead its 'repeal Bush's tax cuts'.
No guts, no glory, kick him to the curb!
Wow, you took that whole position on fiscal sanity, adding universal health care, fully funding homeland security, simplifying the tax code, and assuring the continued health of SS and Medicare and simplified it all the way down to "he wants to raise taxes." Just amazing.
But I think what's interesting -- to me anyway -- is that you won't be alone in your position. There are a LOT of folks out there who have been convinced that they can have more government services AND have lower taxes. They just have to not care about where that money is coming from.
Anyway, we got waaaaay off topic here. It's about Dean being pro-war, remember?
Dean was shocked, as were a whole lot of Jane and Joe Americans, that President Bush acted unilaterally with Iraq, gaining only a symbolic coalition and alienating the rest of the world.
Including much of the world's peoples--in coalition countries too.
This issue will not die before November 2004. Our betrayal will still hurt. The questions will still be asked, and the answers will still be lame.
Meanwhile, the present administration and its supporters reach for straws. It's getting to be a little pathetic.
Dean is as pro-war as any doctor can be. Use it only when all other alternatives are exhausted. Don't trust shaky intelligence. Think about the ulterior motives of advisors, especially Iraqis looking for spots in the new government.
Well, that's me talking and not Dean. I think he'd agree.
Including much of the world's peoples--in coalition countries too.
This issue will not die before November 2004. Our betrayal will still hurt. The questions will still be asked, and the answers will still be lame.
Meanwhile, the present administration and its supporters reach for straws. It's getting to be a little pathetic.
Dean is as pro-war as any doctor can be. Use it only when all other alternatives are exhausted. Don't trust shaky intelligence. Think about the ulterior motives of advisors, especially Iraqis looking for spots in the new government.
Well, that's me talking and not Dean. I think he'd agree.
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