Quoted from C.R. in the "what ad are you tired of" thread:

After reading this I began to notice more and more male roles appear to be one of a bumbling idiot. To name a few the male cast of Friends, Homer, and far too many advertisements. Do you think that boys have few intellectual role models on TV?

I would hope that one would not look to the television for an intellectual role model.

Thats true but, it gives or kids a low bar to shoot for. Prior to the internet it was one of the most wide spread form of entertainment with kids averaging hours a week, which can difinately shape your veiws on life. Look at Fox and Friends, ED sits in the middle calm and collected while the other two make make themselves look like the average "TV male," especially when Green chimes in and cracks on Brian. They have even portrayed the President in the same light by exploiting his "Bushisms."

Do you think that boys have few intellectual role models on TV?

It's television. Anyway what about Dr Who, Spock, And exscuse me but Homer Simpson is a very wise man, who just happens to catch himself on fire once in a while. There are plenty of positive role models on TV. The reason so few become all that popular among males is that we are too exitable to identify with any until around thirtyand we begin to calm down. Until then testosterone rules.

Most comedies aren't intended to be cerebral. Stupidity is funny, and easier to script for than deeply insightful, artful sarcasm..and writers must consider the average audience. It isn't a strictly male phenomenon...Look at Phoebe on Friends. She's a dolt, too. On the other hand, CSI has some pretty sharp characters.

Not really. I think you have cause and effect reversed.
The fact that some men choose to celebrate idiocy is why we see those portrayals on television. Women aren't the ones watching things like The Man Show and Spike TV, they aren't the ones beer ads are targeting with their portrayal of sub-neanderthal behavior from men.
There are plenty of intelligent male characters on TV. I'll admit to not watching many sit-coms, but there are actually far more men than women on Discovery and Learning channels, Frasier is certainly an educated character even if the sit-com format has him, like all leading characters in sit-coms, acting like an idiot.

In a commercial like KFC they are taking a stereotype
and exaggerating it. I don't know how it is for the rest
of the world, but in my house if there is cooking to be done,
it's done by me. My husband can't boil water without burning
it (that's obvious hyperbole, but you get the idea).

So, a commercial like KFC will strike a chord with all the
women viewers. They'll laugh because it is somewhat true,
and then when they can't make dinner one night they'll send
dad and the kids to KFC. It's simple marketing.

As for the shows that portray men as buffoons. Well,
it's all in the name of fun. When you come home from
a long day at the office, sometimes it's nice to watch
mindless television.

Well take the ad with for a Dodge Durango. A couple are having another couple over for a BBQ. The two women are having a conversation about how they decided to get their new suv. The woman says "it spacious for the kids" or something like that. They then pan out to the two males. The womans husband says "It's got a hemi" and then proceeds to set fire to his oven mitt. What does that have to do with the SUV. I still haven't seen a connection.

Maybe you see men portrayed as the buffoons moreso than
women because it is an obvious exaggeration. We all
know that men are smarter and more sophisticated ,
so we can let them be the butt of the joke because it is clearly
not the case in real life.

If women were constantly made to look stupid in these
commercials you can bet there would be public outrage
over it. Feminists would start crawling out of the woodwork.

In other words, it's politically correct to characterize men in
such a way. After all, it's still men who are "running the show"
in our society. So, these commercials can be witty and cute
at the expense of the male population. Nobody gets offended,
and they sell whatever it is they're trying to sell.

But in the majority of these shows these men have no "control" over anything. They are just common men like the most of us. And since when has that ever been an excuse for poking fun a population. If it ain't good enough good enough for the goose why should it be good enough for the gander? (get it? goose female, gander male )

Naw- I get the feeling, on the side of "political correctness"- the only target left is the male, whereas, as someone pointed out, if we made women to look like such idiots, the wailing and gnashing of teeth would begin. However, I see a much larger overall problem with the loss of respect of the role of the male, in the house and as a father, and I think it is being REFLECTED on TV. I think that the loss of the prestige of the father of the house is one of the reasons for the failure of the family and the failures of our society, self-indulgence and lack of self control-wise.


I guess I resent that particular stereotype on TV, because I don't know too many dad's that clueless and total lacking in ability to take care of his family, and resent the general whining of our culture (mostly propagated by the feminist movement) that men somehow don't contribute to the household as much as the woman.

DP said she does most or all of the housework. Well, in my house I do all the housework, because it is just what our schedule allows, and my wife helps when she can, but I do 99% of it. All households are different, and it just gets stale hearing this crap over and over I suppose LOL

CR, I think its not loss of prestige of the father, but actual loss of the father in the house being one of the reasons for failure of the family and the failures of our society, self indulgence and lack of self control wise, especially.

I cannot see why in what is basically a patriarchal society still, why fathers are so absent, or maybe its the cause of it. A sense of breeding without responsability, spreading seed as male biology, havent we all heard the arguements, that its just a 'man thang'. We are expected to accept that men are basically T&A oriented, visual creatures, prone to go off and 'do' anything that presents itself, with no control over this inherant need.

Everyday life translation; sports, sex, food and silence are important to men, women are a whole different breed; overly emotional and concerned with 'other issues', not interesting to males. I believe it has been males who have told us this, to shut us up

If as a result men are portrayed as neanderthals in regards to relationships and life, its not feminists to blame. Feminists have been desiring that men take a greater part in child rearing , household responsability and emotional viability since the beginning. Is this whining or hoping for male expansion?
In fact, it is the Neanderthal types that resist the concept and create shows where MANLY MAN resists becoming a real human being and therefore is depicted as an overall beer drinking, football watching slob and an idiot. This seems to be the image men have of themselves and want to hold onto, certainley not the image or reality women desire from men.

I was repulsed by the 'waaas up' connecting beer commercials (BUD?) When women see this stuff they really wonder what males are coming to and what kind of pickings there are out there. Its very sad for us.

There are intellectual role models for boys though. Almost all Disney is boy related, finds friends, has adventures and discovers self, which kinda irked me at one time because all the girls were just sleeping and waiting around for a kiss from a prince to save her, ICK! Same old stereotypes.

Women are portrayed badly on TV also. You cant imagine how many times I have cringed at toilet bowl commercials or something of the like which portrays that all we care about is clean porcelain or laundry stains. OR MEN, that all we care about is men and romance, its sickening too.

KFC is simply marketing to their target audience. It might not be Rev, or CR, but that's the intention of their strategy. Perhaps research has shown more women than men buy their chicken, and they're usually single with children. Who knows? Whatever. Do you think Brooke Shields looked intelligent wiggling around in her Jordace? Have you seen the ads for phone sex? Do those women come across as intellectual giants? They're advertisements.

You live a sheltered life, then, doomed_planet, because I do all the cooking in my house. My wife can't boil water without burning it, and it's not hype, she admits it. As for all these ad's that play on a guy not being able to cook, why is it the most famous chefs are all men?

Yes - golly, this society is SO stacked against men! Poor men, no opportunities! Women get all the awards, money, power and recognition!

The bumbling male stereotype is getting really, really old. There are a few exceptions in sit-com land, but the sad reality is that in almost all sitcoms, the women are portrayed as more intelligent, sensitive, and wise than the men. Whether ANY sitcom characters are portrayed as intelligent, sensitive, and wise in an absolute sense is another matter entirely, although, as noted, there are definitely flashes of brilliance amongst the airwaves.

The argument that these slow-witted horndogs are acceptable because they are "exagerrations" or "caricatures" doesn't really fly. Simply consider the brouhaha that would erupt if such "exagerrations" or "caricatures" were nearly as widespread and negative with regards to blacks, gays, women, browns, Asians, etc.

It is not basically a patriarchal society, at least not by any rational or objective standard. Perchance you should go read some of the fringe Men's Movement stuff. It'll be almost like you're in an echo chamber that drops an octave, talking to yourself.

So why does it make it acceptable if the target audience is single mothers? Would it be acceptable to make a new Sambo Show if the target audience was neo-Nazis and KKK members? It may be rational to try tickling your markets fancy, but that is separate question from morally acceptable.

As annoying as they are, the women don't come across as intellectual giants because that's not what they're selling, and, if anything, such a presentation would possibly be LESS effective. I, however, am at a loss as to how portraying men as idiots makes chicken more attractive? Is there some underlying vicousness in most women out there that makes chicken taste better when its eaten while standing over a man who's been kicked in the balls? 'Cause that's where this line goes, metaphorically speaking.

I'd recommend that anybody with some interest in this subject start by reading Arrogance, by Bernard Goldberg, followed by With Goodwill Toward Men (author unrecalled at the moment).

Yes, men get all the opportunities to die sooner, work longer hours, have their health concerns overlooked (when was the last time you was a Walk for Testicular Cancer???), work more dangerous jobs, suffer more crime, lose their children, have poorer educations, etc. And be insulted continually in the popular culture for the privilege of the above opportunities.

The problem isn't that men are being portrayed as idiots, that's been a staple of comedy since before the Three Stooges. The problem is, there's little countervailing portrayal.... i.e., no balance.

I couldn't agree with BikerDad more- and he brought up a really good point we used to discuss in comedy writing symposiums- why is it so funny to maul and abuse a male? Consider the re-occuring punchline of a man getting kicked in the crotch, even if it is the good guy? We used the example of a Tom Selleck movie, can't remember it's name, where he actually lost a testicle, and this was a punchline, not a moment of drama. Can you imagine the joke of a woman losing a breast? Yes, there is a definate nastiness to this entire umm, movement?

Notice in these comedies that the male "buffoon" often has the lead role, and makes the most money. I am sure comedic actresses wish there were more Lucy type roles out there. White males have the ability to laugh at themselves, that is a good thing.

I personally do not think this is a problem. There is nothing wrong with the joke of losing a testicle, breast, frontal lobe, etc. The key word here is joke. The only problem I see is that there would be an outrage if the joke had indeed been about a woman losing her breast. Same way as it's perfectly acceptable for a black comedian to crack on whites, but if the situation was reversed there would be an outrage. I personally think that people that get angry over jokes (be they racist, sexist, tasteless, whatever) need to get a life and a sense of humor. A joke is a joke. I envy the people whose life is so perfect that the biggest thing on their agenda is a joke someone made.

But aside from that, I think another reason for such a portrayal of men in the media is our own attitude toward the subject. There are far more men who would say that Al Bundy is the greatest thing since sliced bread (myself included, got my NO MA'AM shirt to prove it), than there are women with the same attitude towards Peggy. Is this bad? I personally have no problem with it. Funny is funny, and if I enjoy a show, I don't care who is portrayed how. I just think it would be better if everyone could make fun of everyone else with little to no outrage.

Huh? Now its just white males who have the ability to laugh at themselves? Please clarify.

Since the advent of television, sitcoms have thrived on the stupidity of characters, male and female. Okay, for the first several decades, there may have been a bit of an imbalance toward women - from Gracie Allen and Lucille Ball (how often did her hare-brained schemes work out?) through Jean Stapleton on All in the Family and Betty White on The Golden Girls - right up to Friends's Lisa Kudrow. Is there currently a slight imbalance toward stupid men? Ach - maybe. So what? It's an element of that type of domestic comedy - always has been - and if the marginal shifts in gender are indicative of anything, it's of what sells.

CR,

Please reread my post. I did not say that I do most or all of
the housework. I said that my husband does not know how to
cook. I wasn't even trying to say it in a derogatory way.
After all, I happen to be married to a man who is not only the
breadwinner, but a wonderful father who contributes more than
his share in almost every aspect of our family. It just so
happens that he doesn't cook. So what. I do not know how
to change the oil in the car, or set the VCR. We all have our
abilities.

The commercials that portray fathers as being inept
when it comes to housework are playing on the stereotype
that exists. It's not (as far as I can see) meant to be a huge
putdown on the male population. It's humor coupled with
product endorsement.

This is a reason why I am against Political Correctness.
We cannot make off-color jokes, use stereotypes in advertisements, etc.
without ruffling someone's feathers.

Since I neither watch television, nor have seen the commercial, I can only deduce the point of the commercial from what I read here. KFC is (apparently) marketing toward an audience who wants to feel they are giving their children a healthy meal, but aren't very educated and don't have a lot of time to prepare one. That might be the single mothers who watch the commercial and buy on the way home from work. Who knows?

I think almost everyone in every commercial looks stupid. "Mom, I don't always feel fresh, what do I do?", "That's dishwashing liquid you've rested your hand in accidentally for some reason (but it's okay...it's palmolive)", the list goes on. The women on the man's show jump on trampolines and never talk. Al Bundy's daughter couldn't read and had a third grade vocabulary. Phoebe on friends is just as stupid as Joey...in fact, the only people with highly educated career fields on that show are men.

Yes, minorities are sometimes poked fun of in comedies also. The Pride family (an excellent cartoon) is an example. The Chicano on that 70s show is another. These are examples the I can come up with, and I have watched a total of around 10 hours of television in the past 3 years. I would expect there are more or that would be some coincidence.

Yes, white males are the only people in the world able to laugh at themselves. Everyone else in the whole world will start screaming that you are perpetuating gender or racial stereotypes at the slightest attempt at humor. Glad I'm a white guy. No, of course, I don't believe that. Something tells me had I been a female and stated "Females have the ability to laugh at themselves" no clarification would have been asked for.

Well, I'd recommend having a good sit-down discussion with that "something'' which is telling you such things! I'm a female, and would have been just as fast to point out the silliness of any generalization, whether its flattering to my sex or not. And most of the women I respect would do the same.

Mrs P, the reach to compare the KFC commercial with the late night phone sex, or Girls Gone Wild commercials simply illustrates that some folks are incapable of critical thinking. The late night phone sex commercials use "dumb girls" because, duh, they're selling dumb girls. (usually, it should be added, to dumb guys). That's a whole different kettle of fish fromusing "dumb guy" to sell CHICKEN.


About as often as Barney Fife's, which I only point out to illustrate that the "Golden Age of Television" wasn't nearly as imbalanced as you might like.

Gilligan and Maxwell Smart, but are you seriously suggesting that some how Archie Bunker is a more flattering portrayal than Edith? . Never watched much of Golden Girls, so I can't speak to it, and as for Friends, very rarely watch that either.

Suggested reading: http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/a-b/a-b-m...rowne011704.htm

Ok Bikerdad, I read your link throughout. I was moved to tears by the commentary, I just never knew men had it so bad. Society has been absolutely ruthless and horrible to men and never considered their feelings, ( as they run off with younger women, time and time again, to blow off their wife and kids) even though they have been upstanding and ethical throughout history( in their mind but...oops kinda not really) have payed child support, ( when it suits them if not screw it) have owned up to their responsibilities (running for cover and hide the assets), and have done the right thing ( thats why we have organizations looking for deadbeat dads), society is just coming down on them SO, SO unfairly. I suppose its a goddam conspiracy.

( I say this only because WHINING has been already deemed unacceptable, and so it should be by both sexes and all races according to this poster, and at this point in time. If a black movement is pathetic and a womens movement is pathetic, Bikerdad, then a mens movement is Pa-the-tic. If the Shoe Fits?)

I would like to ask you then how YOU would portray MEN in todays day and age?
How then would you portray Women?

Do you think that boys have few intellectual role models on TV?



It did lead my wife to repeatedly ask me, “What is a hemi?” Apparently we weren’t the only ones who didn’t know, because the Detroit Free Press eventually ran a story to explain what a “Hemi” is.


We undoubtedly have some good male role models on TV, but posters have shown us the above examples of three “comic characters” that routinely set themselves on fire. Then again, we have the parenting skills demonstrated by Michael Jackson and Steve Irwin, so maybe all is lost after all…

Those of you who claim their spouses "Can't boil water without burning it." might consider cooking lessons, even if they are only taught at home on the weekends.
1) Boiling water expands. Don't fill the pan to the top. Leave some room for the bubbles.
2) Put the pan with water on the burner.
3) Turn the burner on.
4) Until you are more confident of how long it takes, understand that a watched pot does boil.
Now that you understand how to boil water, here's how to cook pasta... The sauce can be cooked in a microwave in a pinch. (They've had lessons at work, but all microwaves are different.) Mixes have simple directions, as do TV dinners. Cook Books are written for all levels, including children. There will come a day when you are ill, or when a proud spouse serves you breakfast in bed, or a surprise candlelight dinner. Believe me, you will appreciate it!

And a hearty hello to you too, Artemise.

Must be why men have 4 times the suicide rate, 'cause society cares so much about their feelings.

Most divorces are sought by the wife, and not because he has 'run off with younger women'. Of course, why abandon an old distorted stereotype when it still feeds your paradigm, eh? Facts, we don't need no stinkin' facts.

The rest of your screed isn't worth the electrons.

Your closing questions, are, however, worthwhile. Alas, today is not the day, but do be a dear and remind me in a few weeks and I'll take a stab at it.

Yes, men are portrayed as idiots on television. At least they're getting paid for it. (Remember Joe Namath in pantyhose?)

The real idiots are the people who talk themselves into buying the products of the advertisers who are sponsoring the stupid shows and running the stupid commercials.

This stuff is totally mind-numbing. But if it makes you laugh sometimes, I suppose it's not all wasted time.

Let's not even pretend to base our perceptions of either sex by what we see on TV. It's just not real.

I wonder if we men, as a gender, stopped buying some stuff due to these ads recently. I have seen a couple lately that were funny, a little stereo-typical in a manner that cracked me up, and none of them were idiots that couldn't even change thier own kids diapers.

First one was the guy on the computer with a crying baby, trys to log on to some lullabye sites, some cartoon sites, some pretty pictures, then types in "super model swimsuits" and loads up this beauty on the screen, they both are staring, and the boy stops crying, at the elle mcpherson pic. At first you think, the kid is already a dog, but then walks in Mommy- which is elle mcpherson.

I LOVED that one. Totally caught me by suprise.

Then the disney one where the dad sleeps the whole time, in every setting. Totally dream of that vacation, every day LOL

Interestingly CR, that the man is at home with the baby, something you would not have seen in earlier times. I didnt think this was a stereotype at all but somewhat advanced. He cant quiet a crying baby ( nothing personal in that) and tries everything, finally a picture of mom quiets him, quite intelligent really. ( it leaves YOU to jump to the conclusion that the Supermodel entry is dogging, this tells all)

Women do not like stupid men, unless they are stupid themselves, so I am wondering who is writing these commercials that portray men as neanderthals?

Could we perhaps clarify what commercials and tv shows show a particular bias against males?

Homer, ok. The Simpsons are very popular so it seems few object.
Friends, does not qualify, they are all stupid in their own ways.
Bud: Waaas up? Well who wrote that one, a think tank of females?

Give examples please so we can clearly see this bias and debate it.

In the past, in commercials I got very tired of women being portrayed as the ultimate housekeepers,so concerned about their toilet bowls, but I didnt take to whining. I just felt the media would eventually stop seeing it this way, far after I and many others did. And sad to say its still prevalent.

Whos to blame? Its TV, Im not going to cry over it.

I thought this was pretty interesting discussion.

If a woman complains that women in the media are portrayed as sexual objects, they're shouted down as an ugly, angry, hairy feminist.

But if men are occasionally portrayed as a bit bumbling you may just have other men to blame:

from http://www.mediawatch.com/tvstats.html



More men are more involved in the creation of the media,

And they appear more as well, so that leaves a larger margin for a few of those portrayed males to be portrayed:

from http://www.mediareporttowomen.com/statistics.htm

There was also a recent article in the GuardianUK about the female screenplay writer nominated for an academy award, Sofia Coppola, for "Lost in Translation", which had this little blurb:

http://film.guardian.co.uk/oscars2004/stor...1141209,00.html

This is really a fun topic I think. I love some of the commercials that portray men as idiots because they are really funny. And, like all good comedy, they have an element of truth to them. Men ARE idiots at times, that's what being a guy is all about. What women don't understand is that's part of the fun of being a man, you get to act like an idiot and everyone thinks you're normal! Think about that, how cool is that?

I'm 51 years old but I can still get away with going into the backyard and trying to treach my idiotic golden retriever (who is also a guy) how to chase a squirrel by running after the squirrel and barking at it myself. How much fun is that? Think a woman could get away with that? Would she want to?

A couple of my favorite TV shows have been Home Improvement and Everyone Loves Raymond and I think my family and I enjoy those kinds of shows because there is some reality to them. We even have sayings in this house for me as in "Dad, you are having a Tim Taylor moment", or "Honey, stop acting like Ray Romano".

So, the answer to the question is "Yes" and why? Because we are. And we love it!

Do we need intellectual rolemodels? I think an idiot has a much better chances of survival i today's America, because anyone who shows signs of intelligence will immediately be hounded by the raging Vestals.

Sure, sometimes men act like idiots but I must disagree that is what a man is supposed to be about. Women too have there idiotic moments so I think it's just human nature to error. That leads to the topic of why are the majority of advertising for men potray us as simple idiots when we are not the on fools on this planet. Even if men are fools who is more foolish, the fool on the fool that loves him.

It's true that it's mostly men who make the commercials, but who makes up a larger portion of the consumers they are targeted towards? Most commercials (beer commercials are an obvious exception) are geared toward women. So they are designed to portay men as women would like them best: cute and a little flawed. I don't think they're portrayed as bumbling idiots in a manner that should offend anyone.

And to comment on that Dodge Commercial: The guy gets burned to take the air out of his "I told her what to do and she did it" tone of voice. I don't take offense to that at all because I wouldn't presume to speak that way about my wife, so he gets what he deserves. It doesn't really have to do with him being a man, it has to do with him acting like a pig. (And ne'er the two shall meet...)

If these commercials offend you, then you're basically owning up to another stereotypical shortcoming men are accused of having: a fragile ego.

Is it? I've worked for two advertising agencies, and my mom is a senior executive at one; and by her and my accounts advertising is one of the few professional industries where the majority are women.

First of all, I find it interesting that so many women want to debate men's issues. Let's explore this a little bit:

I am not so much troubled by a comedic exploitation of men as how this is used by adamant feminists as a lever for power or a divisive issue (this coming from a guy who's favorite show used to be Jackass). Let's face it, we as men are being exploited in this way, precisely because the male psychology is out there: it cannot be hidden. Ever had a witchy female finish your sentence for you? Or how about the constant exploitation of the male emotions, specifically guilt trips? I can't say as I blame them for looking to boost their position or social status, but it is unbelievably misdirected. If you don't have power, get it from those who do have it. There can only be a finite amount of power in the world at any given time. Currently, women do not understand power. There will never be a successful female leader until they do.

Stop looking to us poor schmucks who don't have any power. The statement: "Oh you poor men" or "men get all the breaks" or "it is politically correct" is offensive, divisive and devoid of any real meaning.

Also a word of warning to feminists: The more power you gain, the more your own psychology is manifested in society as a whole, so be careful how you treat your counterparts. Your exposed psychology can be exploited in much the same way as I see done to the male population these days. Look at it as having a younger sibling that you pick on. One day they grow up and get revenge. Hear about the story of a female air marshall who left her gun in a bathroom inside of the security check points? I could either find this funny, use it to exploit women as a whole, or take the high road and just let it go, right?

Finally, feminists, show a little courage yourselves and go after power where there is power. Hint: there are also women with power. Another hint: there is no real power in arguing in an anonymous forum. Yet another hint: try and relate and form lasting bonds with others who are in your own power bracket (i.e. look at your own bracket truthfully and objectively - without passion or prejudice that ultimate clouder of the truth - then proceed)

You should see how many men debate in the women's issues forum, especially on abortion. There is no gender restriction unless the specific thread asks for it.



What does this have to do with the topic? Maybe you could start another thread about what's wrong with feminism if that's what you are looking to debate.

The fact that so many men debate in the women's forum is usually pointed out (as I have done regarding feminists) to shame those same men. BTW abortion, in addition to also being irrelevant to this thread, is not generally considered to be an entirely exclusive topic (unless, as you pointed out, it is specified in the thread) since it involves a question of life/nonlife of another.

In this case, an observation was made.



Apparently, it was not clear from my post what was meant by the feminist issue. So here is futher clarification:

I think we can all agree that a little comedy is a good thing. I think we can also agree that usually comedy involves poking fun at someone or putting 'someone' or 'something' down. I believe that the issue at hand (men-as-bumbling-idiots) is offensive for the reason that most feminists take it too far. Otherwise it is a non-issue, and merely comedy. But it is an issue, hence this thread. I apologize if that was not clear from my post. (I think it was, but that is also another issue).

I don't know of any feminists who like shows such as Jackass or the Man Show (men behaving stupidly). I definitely don't know any who appreciate the characters of Homer Simpson or Al Bundy. It seems that men often prefer to watch shows with stupid men, and feminists don't. Do women spend their time watching the three stooges? Have they ever?

You have a point here, I don't see even feminists actually enjoying such shows, but they can be used in other ways. Let me use the pornography argument. Most feminists regard pornography as women degrading themselves for entertainment. Likewise, Jackass is men degrading themselves for entertainment. Contemplative men tend to go after this issue probably because so many feminists go after the pornography issue. What comes around goes around.

There are two solutions to this in my view:1) Either we legislate away anyone degrading themselves for entertainment (you can run into endless constitutional issues here) or 2) To be truly fair and balanced, there needs to be a 'truce' on the moral equivalency of these issues of men vs. women. The essence of 'liberalism' in my view would be to allow both. Likewise, 'conservatism' would be to disallow both.

Intellectual role models on TV? We usually watch TV for entertainment, and intellect isn't often funny.
When I finally got cable TV back in the late 80's, it was so I could watch things like PBS, DSC, History, A&E, TLC, etc. The format for most of those channels has changed to become 99% mindless garbage, and it must be because that is what the public wants. The only thing I like today on the major networks are the crime related shows, especially Law and Order and its variants. Good thing the internet came along to fulfill my occasional need for intellectual stimulation.
As far as male, or female, role models go, seeing idiots do thier things can be learning experiences for those smart enough to learn from other's mistakes, but there will always be a percentage of us who have to learn from our own mistakes, and some not even then. That describes half of my own relatives, but only one from my wife's side of the family, which is much larger. Parental leadership is where role modeling is most effective. My parents were passive, leave me alone type. My wife's parents were involved in the lives of their children and grandchildren. That is more important than actual intellect, knowing someone cares about you and is willing to help you all they can to be whatever you can be has to be more important than smart parents who don't want to talk to you, or hear from you.

LOL that is the funniest statement I've ever heard... not only are women underpayed for jobs that men do and are payed highly for, but we have to fit the needs of a boss when we are his secretary..

Guys you need to relax and review, who is the president? George Bush
Who is the richest person in the United States with a lot of power? Bill Gates
Who was our first president? George Washington

Men have lots of power, if not more power then they need. Just let's say this okay.

Women and men have equal power whether you admit it or not. You wanna rule the world become God.

Please think about things before you say them. I'm not offended because I'm a woman. I'm offended because whoever wrote this didn't think before he or she did.

Not to mention the fact women complain too much about the fact that they are controlled by men... Incase you didn't notice "WOMAN" there is a key word there. Women are trying to hide from the fact that they are part of man. "Man" is that very key word I was talking about

But, that doesn't give men the power to think that they aren't getting enough and they should rule over us.

I think it's fantastic that you men are finally speaking up against those foul women.. Well, some of us are foul others are just strange and me, I'm-well I'm me.

Realize some of us women are nice to you men and without women you'd all become homosexual and couldn't continue the human race. I know that women aren't the only people needed to make children, men are needed too.. But, who would be pregnant for those 9 months, carrying the child? A man??????????????

Do you think that boys have few intellectual role models on TV?

I've been on TV, and I think I'm a good role model.

What happened to Bill Nye the Science Guy? He was pretty cool. And this is going back in the day...Mr. Wizard, he rocked my face off. I still hate physical sciences, but I gotta admit that stuff would leave me in awe.

I think really what needs to be narrowed down is what kind of age group of boys need these TV role models. I'm sure there are plenty of people who might loathe the Disney channel, but I must admit when watching some of the programming on the Disney channel with my nephew (okay, I admit it, I'll watch it by myself, too) that some shows don't have the bubbling moron male father figure. I admit that I find the dolt for a father rather humorous if played well. Homer Simpson being one example, Hal from Malcolm in the Middle being another. Kramer from Seinfeld, I could go on.

I think it's already been said that boys probably shouldn't be looking to the idiot box for a role model, and I have to agree. I like to think I haven't been a bad role model to the boys I've been around; no telling if I'll ever know the answer to that or not.

I've watched much anime and I can't say they are. I've seen men on anime shows to be bright, responsible, and mature people.

In today's justice system, in the work force and home life, it has become increasingly more popular to make the male the inferior of the two species. This is NOT because it is the case, but because that has become the new trend of today's society. It is just a cycle. If you look at ancient times, such as during the stone age, women were probably much more revered than men for one simple reason: women were the bearers of the future generation. Now, while we no longer have the need to make sure no women die so we can carry on as a species, it is just a cycle that has been going on for thousands of years. In traditional First Nations traditions, the society was matriarchal. Basically, if a women from the Wolf tribe married a man from the Crow tribe, then the Crow would join his wife's tribe, and reside with them. The children of the couple would be of the Wolf tribe.

There are many more such cases that show that in certain societies, at certain periods of time, society viewed females as superior to males. The way society views men today is just a psychological inclining towards a certain trend.

This to shall pass.