Full Version: Bush's Immigration Proposal for illegal workers.
However Artemise- to live with criminal behavior nearly another 12 YEARS after becoming an adult- that is inexcusable and she should be deported immediately, and barred from returning permanently.
This is precisely the kind of abuse that makes me so upset- because it harms those that attempt to come in legally, both in public perception of what an immigrant is and the attempts to "tighten up" security on LEGAL immigration when Illegal immigration is clearly the issue.
This is why I am so furious at the GW administration over this issue- because, those that play by the rules have it FAR HARDER AND MORE EXPENSIVE than those that do not! We should be punishing and removing the illegals so we can focus in a more enlightened way the LEGAL aliens.
This is precisely the kind of abuse that makes me so upset- because it harms those that attempt to come in legally, both in public perception of what an immigrant is and the attempts to "tighten up" security on LEGAL immigration when Illegal immigration is clearly the issue.
This is why I am so furious at the GW administration over this issue- because, those that play by the rules have it FAR HARDER AND MORE EXPENSIVE than those that do not! We should be punishing and removing the illegals so we can focus in a more enlightened way the LEGAL aliens.
QUOTE(Argonaut @ Jan 31 2004, 11:13 AM)
Go back to your home country and apply legally unless you want your former countrymen to think that you are a whiney, ungrateful, lawbreaker who slipped through the cracks of an overburdened generous society that allows for a certain amount of illegal immigration to perform tasks that the people in your home country are just now getting the hang of !!! It sets a bad precedent by encouraging your former countrymen to break federal law and instills in them the notion that "cheating works...just whine about the question later"... 
We are becoming overburdened with the massive influx of illegals.
They may do the work for very cheap, but how are they helping our
economy (esp. in the long-term) when they are sending much of
the money they make back to Mexico. And, while they are here,
procreating at a very rapid rate. The harmful effects of such actions
will be most prevalent years down the line, as we continue to care
for the children that were born here, to illegal immigrants, yet they
are legal citizens.
Already, Los Angeles is over-burdened with over-crowded schools,
latino gang-violence, etc. These problems are all related to the
illegal immigrants, that have come over in years past, and continue
to emerge presently.
It reminds me of an Eagles song. The lyrics go something like this:
"call something paradise, kiss it good-bye.: Right now, to the
outside world, America is paradise, but it will not continue to be
so if we are so loose with our borders.
QUOTE
However Artemise- to live with criminal behavior nearly another 12 YEARS after becoming an adult- that is inexcusable and she should be deported immediately, and barred from returning permanently.
I would have chosen a nicer way of saying it, but I am forced to agree here. Illegaly living in a country does in fact make you a criminal.
I still feel strongly that we need to help the unemployed and poor citizens of America before we start inviting the poverty-stricken citizens of other nations. I understand they may be hard working and family-oriented people, but our responsibility is to our citizens first. You don't put out a fire down the street while your family burns to death in your own home!
I laugh and am amazed at the ignorance of "humans". I never came to this country illegally. I came in the legal way. I am not a criminal. Criminal is someone going into someones country and killing young woman then hiding behind diplomacy.Having a deadly disease (AIDS) and infecting young people while vacationing in their country and I can go on with a long list of criminal atrocities committed by americans visiting other countries. In no way or form am I against americans because in reality that is just a title.
We are above and beyond, humans first each entitled to live in this world created by someone or something bigger than any of us. I am not a whiner. I actually came here at 8 yrs old, left at 10 and came back at 13 yrs. I had no choice, I was a child. My parents like yours were in charge. I survived because I lived in a state where most of my fellow humans were former immigrants or were descendents of immigrants.
Fortunately for me, my mother was able to get a job cleaning american familys homes. How many americans do you know would clean house for meager wages?
I was then lucky to find a legal immigrant who had a business and who gave me a job at 17 after graduation from highschool. I was underpaid, overworked with no health ins or benefits , but was very happy because I could buy my own things and hang with my american friends who thought I was a great person.
I had my child and paid for her birth in the hospital, paid for her milk ,diapers and care with no aid from your government. I never utilized welfare and I never will. If I can't work and buy it I will do without it. I am not a criminal, please look up the meaning of the word? I crossed these borders legally. I am an educated woman. I show compassion for others. I realise everything is not black and white, their is shades of gray.
Show less judgement and more compassion and this place you call your own will be a better place.
We are above and beyond, humans first each entitled to live in this world created by someone or something bigger than any of us. I am not a whiner. I actually came here at 8 yrs old, left at 10 and came back at 13 yrs. I had no choice, I was a child. My parents like yours were in charge. I survived because I lived in a state where most of my fellow humans were former immigrants or were descendents of immigrants.
Fortunately for me, my mother was able to get a job cleaning american familys homes. How many americans do you know would clean house for meager wages?
I was then lucky to find a legal immigrant who had a business and who gave me a job at 17 after graduation from highschool. I was underpaid, overworked with no health ins or benefits , but was very happy because I could buy my own things and hang with my american friends who thought I was a great person.
I had my child and paid for her birth in the hospital, paid for her milk ,diapers and care with no aid from your government. I never utilized welfare and I never will. If I can't work and buy it I will do without it. I am not a criminal, please look up the meaning of the word? I crossed these borders legally. I am an educated woman. I show compassion for others. I realise everything is not black and white, their is shades of gray.
Show less judgement and more compassion and this place you call your own will be a better place.
american in yrs, your original post stated :
Compassion is a great attribute. I don't think by inviting millions of illegal aliens to America to work while we have millions of unemployed citizens is showing compassion to our own people. Why are we to be expected to save the world at the cost of our own people?
QUOTE
I am illegal.
If that is true, then you are, in fact, a criminal. By breaking the law (which you stated you are doing by remaining here illegally) you are a criminal.QUOTE
How many americans do you know would clean house for meager wages?
My mother and I both did this for a number of years when I was a teenager. The argument that 'Americans will not do these jobs' has been discussed here, and in my opinion they hold no weight. I have seen far too many Americans do the very jobs that come up for me to believe that sort of argument.QUOTE
Show less judgement and more compassion and this place you call your own will be a better place.
Compassion is a great attribute. I don't think by inviting millions of illegal aliens to America to work while we have millions of unemployed citizens is showing compassion to our own people. Why are we to be expected to save the world at the cost of our own people?
I never disclosed what my status is at this time. I now have a "paper" that says it is okay for me to live here and had it for some yrs. My purpose in posting my opinion was that their are many reasons why people come here. If this government can make it a little easier for someone to prove that they are upstanding persons, and can be an asset to the community why not implement a law for it .
I realise that most of the disparaging comments are from males in this forum. I also notice an underlying thread of racism directed to the hispanic community and I am disgusted by it. I see some don't feel the need to hide behind white sheets anymore. The only true descendents of America is the American Indians. I learned that in school, here in the USA.
To all of you who make the comments that they are taking jobs away. I would like you to prove to me that you are descended from an American Indian and have the right to act like we are stealing your country . I look at some of the most prominent and sometimes influential people in this country and can count on my hands ,my child hands, my friends hands how many of them are immigrants or descendents of immigrants.
Colin Powell for instance is descended from Jamaican parentage and he is secretary of state. I can list entertainers, athletes, business owners who are from different countries or are descendents of immigrants. To make statements about who are criminals and should not ever be allowed here is a bunch of b-------.Pardon my french. If you just don't like hispanic people then be adult enough and say it. To make ignorant statements about things you know nothing about is ridiculous.
To the person who said that Americans want the jobs that immigrants do, is a goddamn lie. I know plenty Americans who would not clean toilets for a living, they are to good to that job and would let you know that to . I know Americans who would not work at Mc Donalds. Immigrants don't abuse the system. Without a social security number you can't get government aid. The people who abuse the government programs are Americans. They spend their financial aid money to buy clothes and shoes. I have known both white and black american friends who do this. When you ask them why , they say why not . They are entitled to it.
Like I said laws are here to protect and if the law makes sense and it keeps order why not be partial ( leave the racism behind). This world was meant for all of us, not just one or two races. I just thank god for all the Americans I have come to know and love. If their thinking was like some of you on this panel , I can imagine what type of place the great USA would be like. A scary place to be.
I realise that most of the disparaging comments are from males in this forum. I also notice an underlying thread of racism directed to the hispanic community and I am disgusted by it. I see some don't feel the need to hide behind white sheets anymore. The only true descendents of America is the American Indians. I learned that in school, here in the USA.
To all of you who make the comments that they are taking jobs away. I would like you to prove to me that you are descended from an American Indian and have the right to act like we are stealing your country . I look at some of the most prominent and sometimes influential people in this country and can count on my hands ,my child hands, my friends hands how many of them are immigrants or descendents of immigrants.
Colin Powell for instance is descended from Jamaican parentage and he is secretary of state. I can list entertainers, athletes, business owners who are from different countries or are descendents of immigrants. To make statements about who are criminals and should not ever be allowed here is a bunch of b-------.Pardon my french. If you just don't like hispanic people then be adult enough and say it. To make ignorant statements about things you know nothing about is ridiculous.
To the person who said that Americans want the jobs that immigrants do, is a goddamn lie. I know plenty Americans who would not clean toilets for a living, they are to good to that job and would let you know that to . I know Americans who would not work at Mc Donalds. Immigrants don't abuse the system. Without a social security number you can't get government aid. The people who abuse the government programs are Americans. They spend their financial aid money to buy clothes and shoes. I have known both white and black american friends who do this. When you ask them why , they say why not . They are entitled to it.
Like I said laws are here to protect and if the law makes sense and it keeps order why not be partial ( leave the racism behind). This world was meant for all of us, not just one or two races. I just thank god for all the Americans I have come to know and love. If their thinking was like some of you on this panel , I can imagine what type of place the great USA would be like. A scary place to be.
You, by your own admission, are here illegally, or at least were at one point. Then you are a criminal, period, by definition, by substance, by action. NO gray area here. You consciously broke our laws and disrespected our country by continueing to break our laws as an adult when you knew better, period.
VEry typical of the criminal to blame the victim (every legal citizen of the US in this case) for your behavior. Call them racist.
In fact, the easy way a HISPANIC gets into the country vs a Eastern European does indeed show racism- to the Eastern European.
You are in fact, a racist, because you use your race as a club when you are caught breaking the law.
I have no problem with LEGAL immigration of any race at any time.
It is the lawbreaker- i.e.- YOU- that gives ALL other LEGAL immigrants a bad name, and in fact, makes it much harder for ALL poeple that play by the rules to get legitimate status in the US.
VEry typical of the criminal to blame the victim (every legal citizen of the US in this case) for your behavior. Call them racist.
In fact, the easy way a HISPANIC gets into the country vs a Eastern European does indeed show racism- to the Eastern European.
You are in fact, a racist, because you use your race as a club when you are caught breaking the law.
I have no problem with LEGAL immigration of any race at any time.
It is the lawbreaker- i.e.- YOU- that gives ALL other LEGAL immigrants a bad name, and in fact, makes it much harder for ALL poeple that play by the rules to get legitimate status in the US.
FINAL REMINDER BEFORE CLOSURE:
STAY ON TOPIC.
Do you agree with Bush's immigration proposal?
Do you think this will be good or bad for our country?
STAY ON TOPIC.
Do you agree with Bush's immigration proposal?
Do you think this will be good or bad for our country?
Do you agree with Bush's immigration proposal?
Absolutely not- it is a hidieous pandering for votes.
Do you think this will be good or bad for our country?
Absoluetly horrendous, and worse, he should be TIGHTENING the stem of illegals, NOT encouraging it- then, if we have a handle on criminal behavior- enlarge the legal quotas to deal with the drop in influx of illegals.
Absolutely not- it is a hidieous pandering for votes.
Do you think this will be good or bad for our country?
Absoluetly horrendous, and worse, he should be TIGHTENING the stem of illegals, NOT encouraging it- then, if we have a handle on criminal behavior- enlarge the legal quotas to deal with the drop in influx of illegals.
I have no problem with anyone coming here legally and trying to better their life. I have a huge problem with people coming here illegaly, breaking the law.
I have pointed out a number of times that I have personally done some of the jobs being described as work that Americans won't do. I also have pointed out that I know many American citizens of all race that do these very jobs every day. You may not know any yourself (which I seriously doubt, but if that's what you say...) but that doesn't mean that is the way it is across the board.
Really?
Sounds like abuse by illegal immigrants to me! The article points out some very interesting things, and so does this one:
That's right, the laws of the United States are here to protect. To protect American citizens, not the citizens of other nations. I am not against any race, I don't even look at this as a race issue. I look at it as an issue of nationality and citizenship. This country has a responsibility to it's own citizens first. America needs to take care of American citizens first and foremost.
Something needs to be done about illegal immigration, and inviting more immigrants here is not the answer. Giving amnesty is not the answer. This proposal does not benefit America or it's citizens, and will only lead to more problems down the road.
I have pointed out a number of times that I have personally done some of the jobs being described as work that Americans won't do. I also have pointed out that I know many American citizens of all race that do these very jobs every day. You may not know any yourself (which I seriously doubt, but if that's what you say...) but that doesn't mean that is the way it is across the board.
QUOTE
Immigrants don't abuse the system. Without a social security number you can't get government aid.
Really?
QUOTE
Communities along the nation's Southwest border are spending more than $200 million a year to provide health care for illegal immigrants, a report released Thursday said.
The report, based on a survey of hospitals, provides the most detailed estimates yet for an expense that officials say is straining hospitals and forcing some to shut down emergency and trauma services. The study was conducted by the Border Counties Coalition, which includes the 24 U.S. counties that touch Mexico.
- linkThe report, based on a survey of hospitals, provides the most detailed estimates yet for an expense that officials say is straining hospitals and forcing some to shut down emergency and trauma services. The study was conducted by the Border Counties Coalition, which includes the 24 U.S. counties that touch Mexico.
Sounds like abuse by illegal immigrants to me! The article points out some very interesting things, and so does this one:
QUOTE
Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant. California has estimated that the net cost to the state of providing government services to illegal immigrants approached $3 billion during a single fiscal year. The fact that states must bear the cost of federal failure turns illegal immigration, in effect, into one of the largest unfunded federal mandates.
- linkQUOTE
Like I said laws are here to protect and if the law makes sense and it keeps order why not be partial ( leave the racism behind). This world was meant for all of us, not just one or two races.
That's right, the laws of the United States are here to protect. To protect American citizens, not the citizens of other nations. I am not against any race, I don't even look at this as a race issue. I look at it as an issue of nationality and citizenship. This country has a responsibility to it's own citizens first. America needs to take care of American citizens first and foremost.
Something needs to be done about illegal immigration, and inviting more immigrants here is not the answer. Giving amnesty is not the answer. This proposal does not benefit America or it's citizens, and will only lead to more problems down the road.
Slim ..please do not use CIS for sources in this debate. It is offensive and I can't imagine anyone who wants to have a honest and open discussion about this issue can seriously say this is a valid source. They attack just the general idea of immigration..legal or illegal..and they distort the information to best suit their agenda.
CIS is but one of many organizations headed, founded and funded by one man...John Tanton. Several of his anti-immigration groups are already designated as hate groups and much of their beliefs on this issue and their motivations are very questionable. Not only do these organizations openly and willingly accept funding from groups like the Pioneer Fund... which in itself places their argument in a very questionable stance but one of their more vocal groups (FAIR) has been been quoted by the Washington Times as..""hate-filled extremists" and said that true conservatives "should be horrified" to be identified with them."
I could not agree more...as I am very familiar with their funding connections, their many other reincarnations and a lot of the literature and beliefs they put out. You should always investigate who you are going to slap up here as a representation of your views.
It is also a very common tactic to criminalize these people..to ignore the issue at hand and just demand the law to be enforced. Even tho. the law is unenforceable..even tho. you and everyone in this country is benefiting and living off this crime. Not one person in here has addressed the issues I brought up..not one. All we get is condemnations..well enjoy that orange juice this morning that was brought to you by the illegal citizens of the United States...and enjoy your eggs again brought to you by the outlaws of America..and enjoy that salad for lunch and those tomatoes and all the other fruits of these criminal's labor. Obviously no one wants to even bother discussing let alone accepting the idea that America not only needs this labor but enjoys it and that in our one industry that has the most benefit to your daily lives...food...illegal labor is the main engine.
At least the president is talking about this issue...at least the president realizes that we need to have some kind of realistic approach, and at least the president admits that we not only want this labor..we need it.
Also just so you know...a lot of those numbers they quote on illegals is just a guess. I have never been to a hospital that demanded I present proof of my citizenship. Also when a child is born here in the US..they are in fact a citizen and have every entitlement to an education..and they are no different in the eyes of our laws of citizenship from any other child. We are not suppose to harp on heritage because in this country that is not suppose to determine your value, your abilities, your future and certainly not your rights.
CIS is but one of many organizations headed, founded and funded by one man...John Tanton. Several of his anti-immigration groups are already designated as hate groups and much of their beliefs on this issue and their motivations are very questionable. Not only do these organizations openly and willingly accept funding from groups like the Pioneer Fund... which in itself places their argument in a very questionable stance but one of their more vocal groups (FAIR) has been been quoted by the Washington Times as..""hate-filled extremists" and said that true conservatives "should be horrified" to be identified with them."
I could not agree more...as I am very familiar with their funding connections, their many other reincarnations and a lot of the literature and beliefs they put out. You should always investigate who you are going to slap up here as a representation of your views.
It is also a very common tactic to criminalize these people..to ignore the issue at hand and just demand the law to be enforced. Even tho. the law is unenforceable..even tho. you and everyone in this country is benefiting and living off this crime. Not one person in here has addressed the issues I brought up..not one. All we get is condemnations..well enjoy that orange juice this morning that was brought to you by the illegal citizens of the United States...and enjoy your eggs again brought to you by the outlaws of America..and enjoy that salad for lunch and those tomatoes and all the other fruits of these criminal's labor. Obviously no one wants to even bother discussing let alone accepting the idea that America not only needs this labor but enjoys it and that in our one industry that has the most benefit to your daily lives...food...illegal labor is the main engine.
At least the president is talking about this issue...at least the president realizes that we need to have some kind of realistic approach, and at least the president admits that we not only want this labor..we need it.
Also just so you know...a lot of those numbers they quote on illegals is just a guess. I have never been to a hospital that demanded I present proof of my citizenship. Also when a child is born here in the US..they are in fact a citizen and have every entitlement to an education..and they are no different in the eyes of our laws of citizenship from any other child. We are not suppose to harp on heritage because in this country that is not suppose to determine your value, your abilities, your future and certainly not your rights.
I don't really think amnesty to illegal immigrants is exactly the main point of this bill. It seems to me that the companies that hire illegal immigrants will be recieving amnesty as well and to me that really is a travesty.
Perhaps we should look at the unemployment rate and realize that perhaps, if these companies paid a better wage they might have americans that would want to work for them.
Think of it in that respect.
Monty
Perhaps we should look at the unemployment rate and realize that perhaps, if these companies paid a better wage they might have americans that would want to work for them.
Think of it in that respect.
Monty
Excuse me "mr" Cruisin Ram, like I said show me where your family live on the reservation compound. You can then talk to me about illegals vs american citizens. Let me remind you that Europeans came here illegally (they sailed on boats and docked in ports. I doubt they had green cards) and stole America away from the Indians. Like I said, stop the ignorance and use common sense. This place is big enough.
If you do a geneology search and trace your ancestors. I am sure you will find that some came into this country Illegally . Hey they might of even come here legally , overstayed and then eventually obtain residency leading to citizenship. The point is most American citizens are descendents of foreigners (excluding the american indians, who by the way are dying on reservation land) and lucky for you, your fam came way before mines. Maybe then I might of been the one calling you criminal.
Yes there might be some people that do menial jobs ,but there are plenty that think they are above that career choice. Lets be honest, go out there in casual conversation and see how many people you know, if offered a job to clean toilets at Union station will. I came here legally, I paid a plane ticket and I arrived. If you are complaining about people crossing the border as being unsafe then fine. Maybe Bush needs to find away to control that. I am aware of 9/11. I know hundreds of immigrants ( legal) were killed as well as American citizens including many from my country.
If you think Bush is pandering to get votes from the Hispanic community , you might be right. It is not the first time a politician, has done that to win votes. The question is do you believe the law will be effective in stemming the Illegal practices of big companies hiring illegal aliens, who they subject to low wages ,no benefits and basically slave treatment. The law says if no Americans apply or want the jobs then it is okay for the company to hire these illegal citizens.
For those of you on this panel, I suggest you tell your unemployed friends ,family ,neighbors, panhandlers on the streets that they need to go to these companies to find jobs. If they don't it will be given away to an illegal immigrant who just wants to work to put a little bread on the table for his family. Educate people so that they can find these jobs that they only just found out existed, thanks to Bush.
I forgot you don't care about his family, you would rather they starve like the dogs they are. I enjoy conversations like these.The 9/11 tragedy for instance . Looking at the images of black ,white ,hispanic, chinese, japanese,russian etc etc human beings pulling together to help each other. Clearly knowing that these people were all different by race ,but the same in humanity. I guess I got caught up and forgot that this world is still blanketed by hate and prejudice.
Thank You for replying to my comments. At least the right to free speech is still in effect. I am just thankful to all the great American citizens I have had the pleasure to meet ( yes I do really know American people) and thank god that they are who they are. " Land of the free and the home of the brave" words to live by.
goodbye from american in yrs the illegal criminal ( god bless you all)
If you do a geneology search and trace your ancestors. I am sure you will find that some came into this country Illegally . Hey they might of even come here legally , overstayed and then eventually obtain residency leading to citizenship. The point is most American citizens are descendents of foreigners (excluding the american indians, who by the way are dying on reservation land) and lucky for you, your fam came way before mines. Maybe then I might of been the one calling you criminal.
Yes there might be some people that do menial jobs ,but there are plenty that think they are above that career choice. Lets be honest, go out there in casual conversation and see how many people you know, if offered a job to clean toilets at Union station will. I came here legally, I paid a plane ticket and I arrived. If you are complaining about people crossing the border as being unsafe then fine. Maybe Bush needs to find away to control that. I am aware of 9/11. I know hundreds of immigrants ( legal) were killed as well as American citizens including many from my country.
If you think Bush is pandering to get votes from the Hispanic community , you might be right. It is not the first time a politician, has done that to win votes. The question is do you believe the law will be effective in stemming the Illegal practices of big companies hiring illegal aliens, who they subject to low wages ,no benefits and basically slave treatment. The law says if no Americans apply or want the jobs then it is okay for the company to hire these illegal citizens.
For those of you on this panel, I suggest you tell your unemployed friends ,family ,neighbors, panhandlers on the streets that they need to go to these companies to find jobs. If they don't it will be given away to an illegal immigrant who just wants to work to put a little bread on the table for his family. Educate people so that they can find these jobs that they only just found out existed, thanks to Bush.
I forgot you don't care about his family, you would rather they starve like the dogs they are. I enjoy conversations like these.The 9/11 tragedy for instance . Looking at the images of black ,white ,hispanic, chinese, japanese,russian etc etc human beings pulling together to help each other. Clearly knowing that these people were all different by race ,but the same in humanity. I guess I got caught up and forgot that this world is still blanketed by hate and prejudice.
Thank You for replying to my comments. At least the right to free speech is still in effect. I am just thankful to all the great American citizens I have had the pleasure to meet ( yes I do really know American people) and thank god that they are who they are. " Land of the free and the home of the brave" words to live by.
goodbye from american in yrs the illegal criminal ( god bless you all)
QUOTE
It is also a very common tactic to criminalize these people..to ignore the issue at hand and just demand the law to be enforced. Even tho. the law is unenforceable..even tho. you and everyone in this country is benefiting and living off this crime. Not one person in here has addressed the issues I brought up..not one. All we get is condemnations..well enjoy that orange juice this morning that was brought to you by the illegal citizens of the United States...and enjoy your eggs again brought to you by the outlaws of America..and enjoy that salad for lunch and those tomatoes and all the other fruits of these criminal's labor. Obviously no one wants to even bother discussing let alone accepting the idea that America not only needs this labor but enjoys it and that in our one industry that has the most benefit to your daily lives...food...illegal labor is the main engine.
If you read this thread, you will see that I have addressed the issues you bring up. American citizens don't want to do the jobs illegals have at the rate of pay and under the conditions illegals do them. If illegals were removed from these jobs and sent back to their countries and the businesses that hire them penalized for breaking the law, the businesses would be forced to improve both wages and conditions if they want to stay in business. How is that bad?
We have become dependent on illegal aliens. It does not mean we have to stay dependent on them, nor does it mean we should invite more here and become even more dependent on them.
QUOTE
Slim ..please do not use CIS for sources in this debate. It is offensive and I can't imagine anyone who wants to have a honest and open discussion about this issue can seriously say this is a valid source. They attack just the general idea of immigration..legal or illegal..and they distort the information to best suit their agenda. . . . You should always investigate who you are going to slap up here as a representation of your views.
Point taken and lesson learned. I apologize for the oversight on my part, and thanks for pointing that one out! I was sifting through a bunch of information (and misinformation), and tried to make sure I didn't use anything contributed by racist organizations that would be skewed for their own goals, I don't condone their attitudes and don't wish to have the appearance that I support them. I do not support them.
The post before was to be my last post, even though I was certain someone was going to call me a criminal and then I would have to reply. Something I just read by the two "independent males" made me post this comment.
What is a legal immigrant? Do you know that most legal Immigrants at some point become Illegal in their transition to residency. The ways to become legal is as follows 1. Marry a US citizen
2. Win the green card Lottery
3. Have a job sponsor you (but only if their is a shortage of workers for this job) for ex nurses.
4. Have a family member sponsor you ( they were at some point illegal and did one of the above)
5.Have a war drag on, thousands of thousands US citizens dying on the war front. This government then goes to other countries ,telling their young men if they come and fight for them and live to tell the tale. They will make them citizens.
6. Last but not least. Be old as dirt and living in the US for umpteens years and be near death and some senator take an interest in you due to a human rights story done on you. You just might get your green card before you kick the bucket.
Please feel free to tell me the criteria on how a person is defined as a legal immigrant?
Good night y'all
What is a legal immigrant? Do you know that most legal Immigrants at some point become Illegal in their transition to residency. The ways to become legal is as follows 1. Marry a US citizen
2. Win the green card Lottery
3. Have a job sponsor you (but only if their is a shortage of workers for this job) for ex nurses.
4. Have a family member sponsor you ( they were at some point illegal and did one of the above)
5.Have a war drag on, thousands of thousands US citizens dying on the war front. This government then goes to other countries ,telling their young men if they come and fight for them and live to tell the tale. They will make them citizens.
6. Last but not least. Be old as dirt and living in the US for umpteens years and be near death and some senator take an interest in you due to a human rights story done on you. You just might get your green card before you kick the bucket.
Please feel free to tell me the criteria on how a person is defined as a legal immigrant?
Good night y'all
QUOTE
If that is true, then you are, in fact, a criminal. By breaking the law (which you stated you are doing by remaining here illegally) you are a criminal.
This is quite an exageration. What is someone supposed to do after being imported here by their parents, buy a plane ticket out suddenly realizing they are 'criminal', what impetus when they are employed,? Go back to what, with what?
Those poseing these things in theory have little idea about reality in this situation. High and mighty ideals often dont match up with what is feasible.
Bush's plan is not well thought out, as usual. I do think illegal immigration has to be adressed. I think some amnesty should be included in a plan before tougher policy is put into place.
Im not sure why so many are so vehement about this issue...how many of you have been negatively affected by it?
One clue into 'reality' is that half the restaurants and hotels in the US would have to shut their doors if we ever got really serious about illegal workers, and the upper class ladies, of our elite in Palm Springs, Orange County, Texas, and rich communities all over the US, would certainely be having caniptions about paying a decent wage for a decent days work for their overstaffed mansions. Maybe that is why nothing is ever really done about it.
Maybe the Bush plan is all about keeping on all the gardners and housemaids of his corporate friends, without losing a step or hiking the wages, with the excuse that : No americans wanted the jobs. That seems the most feasible to me.
Where does fault lie, with those who work, or those who employ? Who is more criminal, employee or employer? Food for thought. If I were starving, Id go where the work is. If theres no work for me as an illegal, Id go somewhere else.
Maybe we need a new, different thread.
Yes. I have been negatively affected by it, several times. In trying to "play by the rules" and actually obeying the law, instead of sneaking my in-laws over here from Russia, I had the morality and decency to try and bring them over legally. They are all highly educated, hard working poeple that could and would bring a great deal of assets to this country. For instance, they would not let my wife's cousin in the country because "he didn't have enough ties to his country, and might refuse to go back and become an illegal alien"- so, illegal aliens, and the large influx of ILLEGAL aliens, have caused it harder for honest poeple to immigrate, or in this case, go to school here in America so he could help me start a cross-border business, using his Russian contacts and American education for the betterment of all poeple involved (you know- capitalism LOL).
And- legal immigration doesn't need a lawyer to define- it is someone that came to America within the laws of the land, like the lottery, marriage, work or student visa, and then obeyed the parameters of that visa or work status. America in yrs clearly did not do that, by her own admission. So therefore, she is illegal. Why is that so hard to get around.
And America in yrs- Europeans were largely here LEGALLY- through Ellis island. Try studying some AMERICAN history.
My family is direct descendents of John Adams and John Quincy Adams- who, coinciedently- defended the slaves of Amistade from being hanged. So- once again, my particular family was indeed immgrants, however, we legally, within the confines of US law, immigrants. My great grandmother on my Mom's side is a member of the Souix nation- so I guess she is legal too
But YOU came here, even as an adult, in DIRECT violation of our law, whether with a visa and you did not change your status, or without a visa at all, (there is no in between). So that indeed makes you, by definition, a criminal. Does it make you equal to a pedophile as a criminal? NO- you are a foriegn invader however, with no regard for American law.
And this goes back to the original question, and why I don't like the proposal- it rewards those who conciously flaunt our laws.
And- legal immigration doesn't need a lawyer to define- it is someone that came to America within the laws of the land, like the lottery, marriage, work or student visa, and then obeyed the parameters of that visa or work status. America in yrs clearly did not do that, by her own admission. So therefore, she is illegal. Why is that so hard to get around.
And America in yrs- Europeans were largely here LEGALLY- through Ellis island. Try studying some AMERICAN history.
My family is direct descendents of John Adams and John Quincy Adams- who, coinciedently- defended the slaves of Amistade from being hanged. So- once again, my particular family was indeed immgrants, however, we legally, within the confines of US law, immigrants. My great grandmother on my Mom's side is a member of the Souix nation- so I guess she is legal too
But YOU came here, even as an adult, in DIRECT violation of our law, whether with a visa and you did not change your status, or without a visa at all, (there is no in between). So that indeed makes you, by definition, a criminal. Does it make you equal to a pedophile as a criminal? NO- you are a foriegn invader however, with no regard for American law.
And this goes back to the original question, and why I don't like the proposal- it rewards those who conciously flaunt our laws.
QUOTE(Artemise @ Feb 4 2004, 06:10 AM)
Im not sure why so many are so vehement about this issue...how many of you have been negatively affected by it?
I'm negatively affected by it. I'm a resident of the greater
Los Angeles area, where millions of illegals work and live
(and where they are procreating at a very rapid rate). To give you
some examples of how I am negatively affected by it:
1. I have opted to put my children in private schools because
the LA Unified School System is over-crowded, and heavily burdened
by large numbers of children of illegal immigrants. It's just not feasible
to expect a decent education in the public schools here.
2. When I had both of my children I did so on my own dime.
The illegal residents that have children here, are doing so on the
tax-payer's dime. The salaries of bus-boys and produce workers
do not match the cost of having a baby, and caring for it.
Whose responsibility is it when illegals are having children when
they are in no position (financially or emotionally) to handle it? Is it the
America citizens' responsibility? Illegals working for low wages, and so,
the least we can do is let them multiply like rabbits. We will shoulder
the responsibility for their kids for the next umpteen years. All for what?
So, we can pay $1 for an apple, instead of $1.50.
How about the negative repercussions of children who are raised
in such an environment (not enough money, parents who do not speak
the native language, no real guidance). Los Angeles is burdened with much
Latino gang violence.
George Bush lives in an elite, isolated world. He will never have
to personally deal with these types of issues, nor will be forced to endure
any other fallout that will be a direct result of one of his lousy plans.
I really take offense from you american in yrs when you make a blanket statement that says since we are against illegal aliens entering the US we are racist, when all we want is the laws to be enforced and not tossed aside. I have quite abit of information for you so hold on here it comes.
CLINTON DEMANDS MASSIVE NEW AMNESTY
And I liked and voted for Clinton but disagree with this.
The amnesty mistake
Promise Unfulfilled Why Didn’t Collective Bargaining Transform California’s Farm Labor Market?
Bush plan for illegals out of touch with reality
Immigration, Saudi Style
Border Patrol's union opposes amnesty
Costs
Guestworkers
Jobs Americans Won't Do Voodoo Economics from the White House
I have shown many reasons why supporting illegal immigration is in fact not helping us but will only hurt us. If you want I can give even more reasons.
CLINTON DEMANDS MASSIVE NEW AMNESTY
QUOTE
Everybody knows that rewarding illegal aliens in this way would be unlikely to pass if exposed to public hearings and public floor debates. But these amnesties always are slipped through in the dead of night in a cowardly fashion. No committees consider the consequences of constantly rewarding illegal aliens. No hearings explore how many millions more illegal aliens are enticed by these constant rewards.
And I liked and voted for Clinton but disagree with this.
The amnesty mistake
QUOTE
Every guest-worker program in history has failed,” says Mark Krikorian of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Immigration Studies. “It always results in permanent immigration.” This one would be no different.
QUOTE
An amnesty will inevitably present a security problem. The U.S. immigration system is already overwhelmed. Putting aside the reliability of Mexican documentation, who is going to do the background checks on hundreds of thousands of new immigrants coming here? During the last amnesty in 1986, there were thousands upon thousands of cases of fraud. One plotter in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing gained amnesty under the 1986 law as a farm worker. “There is no way that a new amnesty program won’t give green cards to terrorists,” says Krikorian. “I can guarantee it.”
Promise Unfulfilled Why Didn’t Collective Bargaining Transform California’s Farm Labor Market?
QUOTE
California has the most pro-worker and pro-union labor relations law in the United States, and Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers (UFW) were expected to use it to transform farm work from a job to a career. Instead, unauthorized immigration increased the supply of workers, and farm labor contractors organized them into crews that unions found hard to organize. Instead of giving unions a second wind, legalization in 1986 accelerated the vicious spiral of more workers, more labor contractors, and declining farm wages and benefits, encouraging workers with other U.S. job options to find nonfarm jobs. The revolving door that introduces rural Mexicans to the U.S. labor market turned ever faster in the 1980s and 1990s, and the unionized share of the workforce fell while the unauthorized share rose.
Bush plan for illegals out of touch with reality
QUOTE
Administrative capacity: The White House does not appear to realize that the federal government simply doesn't have the ability to manage such a program. In the past, when immigration authorities lacked needed personnel and other resources, the result of such overload was massive fraud.
One consequence was the issuance of a green card to Mahmud Abouhalima in the 1986 illegal-alien amnesty; once he had legal status, he was able to travel to Afghanistan to get terrorist training, which he used to lead the first World Trade Center bombing.
snipet
No provision for enforcing the new rules: The reason we're in this mess is that immigration laws have not been enforced in the past, and any effort to fix things has to address how new rules are going to be enforced.
snipet
And only 13 - thirteen - companies were fined for hiring illegals in 2002.
snipet
No limits on numbers or wages: The small guest worker programs in current law have various controls to try to ensure they don't do more harm than good. The new White House plan, on the other hand, would permit any employer in any industry to import any number of workers and pay them any wage above the legal minimum. This is so radical, and so potentially devastating to the middle class, that it is clear no one even thought through the implications.
snipet
Workers won't go home: It's been said "there's nothing as permanent as a temporary worker." Every guest worker program in human history has created large-scale permanent immigration, but the White House seems unaware of this fact.
One consequence was the issuance of a green card to Mahmud Abouhalima in the 1986 illegal-alien amnesty; once he had legal status, he was able to travel to Afghanistan to get terrorist training, which he used to lead the first World Trade Center bombing.
snipet
No provision for enforcing the new rules: The reason we're in this mess is that immigration laws have not been enforced in the past, and any effort to fix things has to address how new rules are going to be enforced.
snipet
And only 13 - thirteen - companies were fined for hiring illegals in 2002.
snipet
No limits on numbers or wages: The small guest worker programs in current law have various controls to try to ensure they don't do more harm than good. The new White House plan, on the other hand, would permit any employer in any industry to import any number of workers and pay them any wage above the legal minimum. This is so radical, and so potentially devastating to the middle class, that it is clear no one even thought through the implications.
snipet
Workers won't go home: It's been said "there's nothing as permanent as a temporary worker." Every guest worker program in human history has created large-scale permanent immigration, but the White House seems unaware of this fact.
Immigration, Saudi Style
QUOTE
What's more, labor-market tests that serve to limit current guestworker categories would be discarded, in favor of a "clear and efficient" system, in the president's words, that would enable employers "to find workers quickly and simply." I specifically asked a senior White House official whether the current job protections would be used — such as a labor-market test or a requirement that the employer offer the "prevailing wage" for that occupation — and was told that such mechanisms were too bureaucratic and would not be used. What would likely result would be an Internet job registry, permitting employers to offer jobs at any wage above the legal minimum, and when no Americans or legal immigrants applied after a specified number of days, they would be permitted to import foreigners. Without any statutory or administrative limits, this flow of new workers would quickly number in the millions.
Border Patrol's union opposes amnesty
QUOTE
The U.S. Border Patrol's union has spoken out against President Bush's immigration proposal, calling it a "slap in the face" to federal agents who risk their lives to keep illegal border crossers out of the country and rewarding those the agency fails to catch.
snipet
T.J. Bonner, the union leader, said that, if passed, the new law would jeopardize border security by ushering a massive onslaught of illegal crossers attracted by the prospect of easy access to jobs.
"It's demoralizing to be out there every day risking your life and then they come out with this thing," Bonner said. "All the times you've been assaulted, shot at - it doesn't mean anything."
snipet
T.J. Bonner, the union leader, said that, if passed, the new law would jeopardize border security by ushering a massive onslaught of illegal crossers attracted by the prospect of easy access to jobs.
"It's demoralizing to be out there every day risking your life and then they come out with this thing," Bonner said. "All the times you've been assaulted, shot at - it doesn't mean anything."
Costs
QUOTE
Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant. California has estimated that the net cost to the state of providing government services to illegal immigrants approached $3 billion during a single fiscal year. The fact that states must bear the cost of federal failure turns illegal immigration, in effect, into one of the largest unfunded federal mandates.
Guestworkers
QUOTE
The H-1B visa program was invented in 1990 because of congressional panic over a forecasted labor shortage which never materialized. The program allowed for 65,000 temporary visas, good for up to six years, for people in "specialty occupations" tied to a specific employer. The main payoff of an H-1B visa is sponsorship by one's employer for a green card, and indeed the program, which government audits have identified as rife with abuse, has become a backdoor toward permanent immigration.
Jobs Americans Won't Do Voodoo Economics from the White House
QUOTE
Even many opponents of the proposed Bush Amnesty assume this to be true, leading them to propose new and improved guestworker programs, with provisions for stricter controls against permanent settlement, greater incentives to return, tighter enforcement against unscrupulous employers, etc.
As well-meaning as such efforts may be, the basic assumption is false — there is simply no economic reason to import foreign workers.
snipet
If the supply of foreign workers were to dry up (say, through actually enforcing the immigration law, for starters), employers would respond to this new, tighter, labor market in two ways. One, they would offer higher wages, increased benefits, and improved working conditions, so as to recruit and retain people from the remaining pool of workers. At the same time, the same employers would look for ways to eliminate some of the jobs they now are having trouble filling. The result would be a new equilibrium, with blue-collar workers making somewhat better money, but each one of those workers being more productive.
Many people fear the first part of such a response, claiming that prices for fruits and vegetables would skyrocket, fueling inflation. But since all unskilled labor — from Americans and foreigners, in all industries — accounts for such a small part of our economy, perhaps four percent of GDP, we can tighten the labor market without any fear of sparking meaningful inflation. Agricultural economist Philip Martin has pointed out that labor accounts for only about ten percent of the retail price of a head of lettuce, for instance, so even doubling the wages of pickers would have little noticeable effect on consumers.
But it's the second part of the response to a tighter labor market that people just don't get. By holding down natural wage growth in labor-intensive industries, immigration serves as a subsidy for low-wage, low-productivity ways of doing business, retarding technological progress and productivity growth.
snipet
As it is for copper or oil, this fact is true also for labor; as wages have risen over time, innovators have devised ways of substituting capital for labor, increasing productivity to the benefit of all. The converse, of course, is also true; the artificial superabundance of a resource will tend to remove much of the incentive for innovation.
Stagnating innovation caused by excessive immigration is perhaps most apparent in the most immigrant-dependent activity — the harvest of fresh fruit and vegetables. The period from 1960 to 1975 (roughly from the end of the "Bracero" program, which imported Mexican farmworkers, to the beginning of the mass illegal immigration we are still experiencing today) was a period of considerable agricultural mechanization. But a continuing increase in the acreage and number of crops harvested mechanically did not materialize as expected, in large part because the supply of workers remained artificially large due to the growing illegal immigration we were politically unwilling to stop.
As well-meaning as such efforts may be, the basic assumption is false — there is simply no economic reason to import foreign workers.
snipet
If the supply of foreign workers were to dry up (say, through actually enforcing the immigration law, for starters), employers would respond to this new, tighter, labor market in two ways. One, they would offer higher wages, increased benefits, and improved working conditions, so as to recruit and retain people from the remaining pool of workers. At the same time, the same employers would look for ways to eliminate some of the jobs they now are having trouble filling. The result would be a new equilibrium, with blue-collar workers making somewhat better money, but each one of those workers being more productive.
Many people fear the first part of such a response, claiming that prices for fruits and vegetables would skyrocket, fueling inflation. But since all unskilled labor — from Americans and foreigners, in all industries — accounts for such a small part of our economy, perhaps four percent of GDP, we can tighten the labor market without any fear of sparking meaningful inflation. Agricultural economist Philip Martin has pointed out that labor accounts for only about ten percent of the retail price of a head of lettuce, for instance, so even doubling the wages of pickers would have little noticeable effect on consumers.
But it's the second part of the response to a tighter labor market that people just don't get. By holding down natural wage growth in labor-intensive industries, immigration serves as a subsidy for low-wage, low-productivity ways of doing business, retarding technological progress and productivity growth.
snipet
As it is for copper or oil, this fact is true also for labor; as wages have risen over time, innovators have devised ways of substituting capital for labor, increasing productivity to the benefit of all. The converse, of course, is also true; the artificial superabundance of a resource will tend to remove much of the incentive for innovation.
Stagnating innovation caused by excessive immigration is perhaps most apparent in the most immigrant-dependent activity — the harvest of fresh fruit and vegetables. The period from 1960 to 1975 (roughly from the end of the "Bracero" program, which imported Mexican farmworkers, to the beginning of the mass illegal immigration we are still experiencing today) was a period of considerable agricultural mechanization. But a continuing increase in the acreage and number of crops harvested mechanically did not materialize as expected, in large part because the supply of workers remained artificially large due to the growing illegal immigration we were politically unwilling to stop.
I have shown many reasons why supporting illegal immigration is in fact not helping us but will only hurt us. If you want I can give even more reasons.
Cadman...Well I really take offense at your means of debate.
Did you not see me politely ask slim not to slap CIS up in here? If you did and you continued to do so what does that say about your stance? Are you a supporter of the Pioneer Fund?...exactly why do you oppose immigration?
The very least you can do is have respect for the opposing side in this argument..you don't have to respect our opinions but at least respect our rights as humans and not question our value because our birth place differs from yours.
Slim your apology was very much welcomed..thank you. You are becoming one of my favorite people to engage in debate with.
Slim I do not know how much higher our rates for farm labor must go to attract a large number of native workers into the fields. Most of Americans don't live in rural areas anymore, most are educated, most can speak english perfectly, most are not accepting of the migrant lifestyle and to a good many 8-11 USD is not enough. Yet to the Farmer how much more can he afford? We have an open market ..we are not a closed market..if our native farmers can't sell lettuce, potatoes or tomatoes at the acceptable asking price..farmers in Mexico, South America, Canada etc. will. So either you have an import of labor into the Ag ind or we will have an import of Ag into our country. I suppose it depends what you feel is of more importance..our country's farming ind or the idea of strict immigration control. I personally can't see how we can push forward the idea of free trade and not have labor included and not have more fluid borders.
There have been several well quoted experiments where they gov did go into an area and remove the illegal immigrant workers and attempt to replace them with legal workers with great failure. I will have to see if I can locate an article on this. I think the problem is so ingrained in our society and has been such a relied upon source for both sides of the issue for so long..that the idea we can just seal up and be done with is naive at best. Even in the UK they have thousands of people entering illegally every year and it is an island. What country in this world does not have illegal immigration? None..this just happens to be a phenomena of the human race..we once called it migration...some of us still do.
Did you not see me politely ask slim not to slap CIS up in here? If you did and you continued to do so what does that say about your stance? Are you a supporter of the Pioneer Fund?...exactly why do you oppose immigration?
The very least you can do is have respect for the opposing side in this argument..you don't have to respect our opinions but at least respect our rights as humans and not question our value because our birth place differs from yours.
Slim your apology was very much welcomed..thank you. You are becoming one of my favorite people to engage in debate with.
Slim I do not know how much higher our rates for farm labor must go to attract a large number of native workers into the fields. Most of Americans don't live in rural areas anymore, most are educated, most can speak english perfectly, most are not accepting of the migrant lifestyle and to a good many 8-11 USD is not enough. Yet to the Farmer how much more can he afford? We have an open market ..we are not a closed market..if our native farmers can't sell lettuce, potatoes or tomatoes at the acceptable asking price..farmers in Mexico, South America, Canada etc. will. So either you have an import of labor into the Ag ind or we will have an import of Ag into our country. I suppose it depends what you feel is of more importance..our country's farming ind or the idea of strict immigration control. I personally can't see how we can push forward the idea of free trade and not have labor included and not have more fluid borders.
There have been several well quoted experiments where they gov did go into an area and remove the illegal immigrant workers and attempt to replace them with legal workers with great failure. I will have to see if I can locate an article on this. I think the problem is so ingrained in our society and has been such a relied upon source for both sides of the issue for so long..that the idea we can just seal up and be done with is naive at best. Even in the UK they have thousands of people entering illegally every year and it is an island. What country in this world does not have illegal immigration? None..this just happens to be a phenomena of the human race..we once called it migration...some of us still do.
I just had to respond. Poor cruisin ram , I am so happy to hear of your multi ethnicity. But yes ignorance is still there. I don't need to look up American history sweetie. Like I said I went to elementary and highschool and some college (aiming to go back) so I do know some American history. Unlike you I don't believe everything that is written and most of what I know is based on experience and knowledge by investigation.
America is very hesitant on admitting Russians into their country because of there long history of anti american /USA. Just because the wall came down , doesn't mean that they don't feel the same about Russia. I believe Americans feel I will smile at you (Russian) but I definitely will not sleep on you. Do you know what I mean.
The fact that your cousin in law could not even get a student visa has nothing to do with legal immigration. It has to do with years of ingrained hate and fear. Unfortunately for your cousin, If an american citizen does not go to Russia to marry him, he will never see the good ole USA. He will never win the lottery . I believe Russia was one of the countries that could not participate ( I don't know if that has changed in the last few yrs). Unless his mother gets her green card then you as a cousin can not sponsor him.
One more thing , there are many educated people who come here with a visa and end up becoming illegal in their transition to become green card holders. I know many persons with bachelors or masters degree who come here in search of a better life. They take jobs that are below their knowledge and are happy doing it, because they realise that they have to start at the bottom .They realise they are going to have to work to establish a life and they never complain about it. Why are you?
I appreciate the women and some of the men on this panel. You can tell they took a realistic approach to the question and idea proposed by Bush and this forum. I have been to few places in the US but I have never been to California. I don't know how the influx of hispanics is affecting all of you. Truly though I feel like some of the negativity about the hispanics has to do with racism. A definite fear of the people because of the lack of knowledge about them. Their aren't only Latino gangs, their are African american gangs, their are Caucasian gangs. They are all destructive.
The hispanics don't cause education to stumble in a school. The factors to schools failing is the lack of funds allotted to education, poor teaching, uncaring teachers and parents. Less money for war, more money for schools. It was no hispanic person shooting up schools ,killing teachers and peers. It does not matter what race you are. Their are schools all around the usa failing because of the factors I listed. We, and I say we (including myself) as parents need to get together and demand that money spent on frivolous things be spent on educating our children.
I agree with Bucket and Artemise. I agree that laws should be enforced for people who sneak in on the back of a padlocked truck or in a crate on a boat etc etc. I agree that two many of these people lose their lives in the track for a better life. The laws should be there to protect them from greedy smugglers. I think that more informed Immigration agents need to be hired. I think that persons coming into the country in that mode needs to be interviewed. They may be fleeing persecution and if that is the case ,then the agents can investigate their case and if proven true, refuge should be provided.
No one ans my question though. What about the people who come in with a visa and then eventually become illegal. This law will affect them. Some of the males on this forum seem stuck on the hispanics only. What about the other minorities and Europeans who are in the same predicament? Immigration will affect all nationalities. This law can be effective if handled correctly. I agree with Bucket. Amnesty should be awarded and then from x yr , new and improved immigration laws should be implemented as to protect us from terrorist. Yes I do believe that legal or not legal ,we will all perish if the US was to be targeted. I would pick up arms to defend this country and my countrymen if it were to happen.
american in yrs (criminal) LOL
America is very hesitant on admitting Russians into their country because of there long history of anti american /USA. Just because the wall came down , doesn't mean that they don't feel the same about Russia. I believe Americans feel I will smile at you (Russian) but I definitely will not sleep on you. Do you know what I mean.
The fact that your cousin in law could not even get a student visa has nothing to do with legal immigration. It has to do with years of ingrained hate and fear. Unfortunately for your cousin, If an american citizen does not go to Russia to marry him, he will never see the good ole USA. He will never win the lottery . I believe Russia was one of the countries that could not participate ( I don't know if that has changed in the last few yrs). Unless his mother gets her green card then you as a cousin can not sponsor him.
One more thing , there are many educated people who come here with a visa and end up becoming illegal in their transition to become green card holders. I know many persons with bachelors or masters degree who come here in search of a better life. They take jobs that are below their knowledge and are happy doing it, because they realise that they have to start at the bottom .They realise they are going to have to work to establish a life and they never complain about it. Why are you?
I appreciate the women and some of the men on this panel. You can tell they took a realistic approach to the question and idea proposed by Bush and this forum. I have been to few places in the US but I have never been to California. I don't know how the influx of hispanics is affecting all of you. Truly though I feel like some of the negativity about the hispanics has to do with racism. A definite fear of the people because of the lack of knowledge about them. Their aren't only Latino gangs, their are African american gangs, their are Caucasian gangs. They are all destructive.
The hispanics don't cause education to stumble in a school. The factors to schools failing is the lack of funds allotted to education, poor teaching, uncaring teachers and parents. Less money for war, more money for schools. It was no hispanic person shooting up schools ,killing teachers and peers. It does not matter what race you are. Their are schools all around the usa failing because of the factors I listed. We, and I say we (including myself) as parents need to get together and demand that money spent on frivolous things be spent on educating our children.
I agree with Bucket and Artemise. I agree that laws should be enforced for people who sneak in on the back of a padlocked truck or in a crate on a boat etc etc. I agree that two many of these people lose their lives in the track for a better life. The laws should be there to protect them from greedy smugglers. I think that more informed Immigration agents need to be hired. I think that persons coming into the country in that mode needs to be interviewed. They may be fleeing persecution and if that is the case ,then the agents can investigate their case and if proven true, refuge should be provided.
No one ans my question though. What about the people who come in with a visa and then eventually become illegal. This law will affect them. Some of the males on this forum seem stuck on the hispanics only. What about the other minorities and Europeans who are in the same predicament? Immigration will affect all nationalities. This law can be effective if handled correctly. I agree with Bucket. Amnesty should be awarded and then from x yr , new and improved immigration laws should be implemented as to protect us from terrorist. Yes I do believe that legal or not legal ,we will all perish if the US was to be targeted. I would pick up arms to defend this country and my countrymen if it were to happen.
american in yrs (criminal) LOL
QUOTE
No one ans my question though. What about the people who come in with a visa and then eventually become illegal. This law will affect them. Some of the males on this forum seem stuck on the hispanics only. What about the other minorities and Europeans who are in the same predicament? Immigration will affect all nationalities. This law can be effective if handled correctly. I agree with Bucket. Amnesty should be awarded and then from x yr , new and improved immigration laws should be implemented as to protect us from terrorist. Yes I do believe that legal or not legal ,we will all perish if the US was to be targeted. I would pick up arms to defend this country and my countrymen if it were to happen.
The majority of illegal aliens in America are Hispanic, specifically from Mexico. That would be why they are brought up the most in this thread.
QUOTE
Mexico is the largest source country for unauthorized immigration to the United States.
The estimated unauthorized resident population from Mexico increased from about 2.0 million in
1990 to 4.8 million in January 2000. Mexico’s share of the total unauthorized resident
population increased from 58 percent in 1990 to 69 percent in 2000.
The estimated unauthorized resident population from Mexico increased from about 2.0 million in
1990 to 4.8 million in January 2000. Mexico’s share of the total unauthorized resident
population increased from 58 percent in 1990 to 69 percent in 2000.
- link
If you get a visa to enter America, and it is taken away or expires, you are expected to return to your country of origin. If you remain here, you are doing so illegaly and are breaking the law. What is so hard to understand about that?
CLOSED.
This debate was supposed to focus on Bush's proposal. We've gone off-topic too many times now.
Perhaps we can start this again when we can stop making things personal and focus on the debate questions.
This debate was supposed to focus on Bush's proposal. We've gone off-topic too many times now.
Perhaps we can start this again when we can stop making things personal and focus on the debate questions.
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