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Anyone-but-bush
us.gif My opinion on the 2004 State of the Union Address

First off you can read the speech at
(please moderators don't strike me for including this)zipped.gif

Whitehouse.gov

I'm going to try not to rant to much I just want to point out some things i disliked!

Taxes

QUOTE
The American economy is growing stronger. The tax relief you passed is working.


I don't know about you but the 400 bucks I got didn't help me out at all , my federal income tax might have went down but my state went up an so did my property taxes so to me the bush taxs were a wash , my overall tax burden went up!
and i don't belive the economy has gotten any better , wall street might be doing better but that hasn't corelated to a better economy for working class Americans!
jobs,jobs,jobs!

Check these sites out for info:Bushtaxcut.com

Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Patriot Act

QUOTE
Key provisions of the Patriot Act are set to expire next year. (Applause.)


I thought that was funny that the democrats applauded the expiration of this act I think the whole act should be trashed its just unconstitutional! us.gif

War

QUOTE
We're working with Iraqis and the United Nations to prepare for a transition to full Iraqi sovereignty by the end of June.


some how I don't see this happening aren't we still trying to do that in Afganastan.
I don't see Iraqi sovereignty happening any time in the next 5 years, maybe civil war.

QUOTE
Some critics have said our duties in Iraq must be internationalized. This particular criticism is hard to explain to our partners in Britain, Australia, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, Italy, Spain, Poland, Denmark, Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Romania, the Netherlands -- (applause) -- Norway, El Salvador, and the 17 other countries that have committed troops to Iraq. (Applause.) As we debate at home, we must never ignore the vital contributions of our international partners, or dismiss their sacrifices.


I don't have the info but I'd like to know what exactly these other nations are doing , how much of the costs are they paying?, how many frontline troops have they committed(not some guy in kuwait in a support roll)? I don't belive the people of these nations were not behind this war , I think these leaders fell to the pressure from the Bush war machine " your with us or aginst us " mentality!

QUOTE
For diplomacy to be effective, words must be credible, and no one can now doubt the word of America.


Is that funny or what w00t.gif more people around the world doubt us now after all the lies told about the war , Are credibility is in the can!

QUOTE
Already, the Kay Report identified dozens of weapons of mass destruction-related program activities


Can you say, back peddling blush.gif

QUOTE
I will send you a proposal to double the budget of the National Endowment for Democracy


I don't know About you but I don't like my Tax dollars funding a private group that I have no say in! No taxation with out representation!

QUOTE
We have come through recession


Not in the Country I live in , we a still very much in a recession if not depression

recession
The state of the economy declines; a widespread decline in the GDP and a decline in employment and trade lasting from six months to a year

depression
A long-term economic state characterized by unemployment and low prices and low levels of trade and investment

Sounds like were in a depression don't it ermm.gif I didn't make this up it was in the dictionary!

I could go on an on but I'm getting to mad to continue




devil.gif
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Julian
It's been mentioned before, but the "permission slip" comment that has drawn so many plaudits, here and elsewhere, rests on Iraq being a clear and present danger to the security of America and Americans.

Someone mentioned that they support the right of America to respond with force, if attacked. What is missing from this is that France, Germany, and Russia (the most prominent of the "few nations" who tried to hold America back from attacking Iraq through the UN) also supported this right, because none of them batted an eyelid when America responded against al-Quaeda and their Taliban hosts in the immediate aftermath of 9-11.

What they DID object to was the conflation of Iraq into that response, which Bush (and Blair) have continually tried to imply is part of the War on Terror.

Before the invasion, I (and many others) tentatively supported it on the grounds that the Baathist regime still had dangerous quantities of WMD, which if they did not use them directly, could have fallen into the hands of AQ and similar organisations.

That no such weapons have been found almost a year later - and remember, the UN inspectors found that Iraq suddenly became cooperative when the US/UK military presence in the Gulf was enlarged prior to invasion; and the objections of France and the rest were limited to "give the inspectors more time" - indicates to me that either the intelligence was incompetently obtained or dishonestly presented, or both, and that the US and UK governments (at the very least) knew this perfectly well, but ignored it because they had predecided that invasion would go ahead anyway. Possibly in line with the long-standing Neo-Conservative aim of doing so to secure US hegemony (rather than US security - the two are entirely different).

What Dubya should have said was "This administration does not need a permission slip to do whatever the hell it likes, right or wrong". Doubtless some of the people whose hearts leapt at his actual comments would not feel any different had he been more honest.
Curmudgeon
I would like to note first, that at home, I applauded the expiration of The Patriot Act, and I found NOTHING inappropriate with the response of Congressmen, Democrat or Republican, who also applauded its expiration. It is a law which many of us find frightening, and which the President said, "allows federal law enforcement to better share information, to track terrorists, to disrupt their cells, and to seize their assets. For years, we have used similar provisions to catch embezzlers and drug traffickers. If these methods are good for hunting criminals, they are even more important for hunting terrorists." If I understood him correctly, the provisions they are actually using reflect pre-existing techniques which were already legal.

Second, I want to compare and contrast where the President wants to lead, with his goals of four years ago. The Republican Platform 2000 is quite long, so I will only be excerpting a little at a time.

QUOTE(Republican Platform 2000)
Medicare, at age 35, needs a new lease on life. It's time to bring this program, so critical for 39 million seniors and individuals with disabilities, into the Twenty-First Century. It's time to modernize the benefit package to match current medical science, improve the program's financial stability, and cut back the bureaucratic jungle that is smothering it. It's time to give older Americans access to the same health insurance plan the Congress has created for itself, so that seniors will have the same choices and security as Members of Congress, including elimination of all current limitations and restrictions that prevent the establishment of medical savings accounts. To do that, we need to build on the strengths of the free market system, offer seniors real choices in coverage, give participants flexibility, and make sure there are incentives for the private sector to develop new and inexpensive drugs.

QUOTE(State of the Union address @ January 20, 2004)
Our nation's health care system, like our economy, is also in a time of change. Amazing medical technologies are improving and saving lives. This dramatic progress has brought its own challenge, in the rising costs of medical care and health insurance. Members of Congress, we must work together to help control those costs and extend the benefits of modern medicine throughout our country.

In most doctor's offices, I have noticed that the drug companies offer inexpensive programs that allow low income and elderly patients to purchase drugs at a discount if they have no insurance available. Four years after his platform said, "It's time to give older Americans access to the same health insurance plan the Congress has created for itself," he has "pushed" through a Republican Congress, a plan which will allow me as a Medicare recipient to subscribe to a discount card so that I can purchase drugs at a discount. In all likelihood, my formal employer will now say that because I am eligible for Medicare drug benefits, they will drop all medical coverage that I am eligible for through them. That insurance currently picks up about $3,000 of my annual prescription costs.
primitivegoonie
QUOTE
Do you agree/disagree with the President's agenda as set forth in the speech?


I disagree with the majority of the President's agenda set forth in his speech. The points I am adamantly against are as follows:

QUOTE
Our greatest responsibility is the active defense of the American people. Twenty-eight months have passed since September 11th, 2001 -- over two years without an attack on American soil. And it is tempting to believe that the danger is behind us. That hope is understandable, comforting -- and false. The killing has continued in Bali, Jakarta, Casablanca, Riyadh, Mombasa, Jerusalem, Istanbul, and Baghdad. The terrorists continue to plot against America and the civilized world. And by our will and courage, this danger will be defeated.


I think this is the biggest concern I have with the current administration. The events of September 11, 2001 will never be vindicated, nor will the ongoing threat of terrorism toward our country be defeated by the means in which President Bush is pursuing.

The war on terrorism is reactionary and ill-fated. We will lose the fight against our security at home if we continue to use our military resources in the present manner. Perhaps one of the most disturbing aspect of this 'war on terror' is that Bush has never given the people of the United States a clear plan, budget, or target date for 'winning' this war. The answer is because this is a war we'll never win, but rather a liability that will be passed on for generations to come. Being "on the offensive" as the President has proudly proclaimed will continue to drain money, lives, and hope for true peace in this world.

In regard to his statements about Iraq: LIES, Lies, and more lies.

I am overwhelmed by the lack of integrity this President has shown when it comes to declaring war against other nations. The war in Iraq was a mistake. The President needed to come clean and admit that this war was an enormous error on the part of his advisors, Congress, and himself.

But he didn't...

QUOTE
Some in this chamber, and in our country, did not support the liberation of Iraq."


First of all, those who were opposed to this war were not opposed to the liberation of Iraq? Wasn't this about weapons of mass destruction last year?

QUOTE
Already, the Kay Report identified dozens of weapons of mass destruction-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations."


Okay..."dozens of weapons of mass destruction-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment..."

Using general terms to inflate the lack of substance that actually exists makes the President's case for war after the fact pretty weak. No wonder the administration misled the public last year to get support. If they had used this "bombshell" of information last year, it wouldn't have held any water at all.

QUOTE
Had we failed to act, the dictatator's weapons of mass destruction programs would continue to this day. Had we failed to act, Security Council resolutions on Iraq would have been revealed as empty threats, weakening the United Nations and encouraging defiance by dictators around the world. Iraq's torture chambers would still be filled with victims, terrified and innocent. The killing fields of Iraq -- where hundreds of thousands of men and women and children vanished into the sands -- would still be known only to the killers."


I am still dumbfounded that President Bush acts as though the UN was just going to turn their backs and ignore Iraq if the US hadn't made a case for war. Weapons inspectors were peacefully allowed back into Iraq, the inspections were working, and Saddam was cooperating for the first time in over a decade. This idea that if the US had failed to act, that Iraq would have had any leverage to mount a viable threat against anyone is ridicules.

QUOTE
From the beginning, America has sought international support for our operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we have gained much support. There is a difference, however, between leading a coalition of many nations, and submitting to the objections of a few. America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country.


I am in agony over this part of the speech. I have difficulty putting into words the vile falseness of this statement.

First of all, support from other countries came at a price. We only garnered support through bribery and coercion. In fact, the majority of the civilian populations in the "coalition of many nations" were vocally critical of the United States and their leadership's alignment with Bush's agenda.

Secondly, the "security of our country" was never in danger when it came to Iraq. That's why they didn't call it "Operation American Security". It is patriotic and heartwarming to think that the United States acted honorably by liberating the people of Iraq. However, it is the ignorance of this country's citizens that allowed our President to abuse his power and the influence of the United States.

The ignorance of our country's citizens has also allowed the President and Congress to pass the intrusive Patriot Act...

QUOTE
Key provisions of the Patriot Act are set to expire next year.  The terrorist threat will not expire on that schedule.  Our law enforcement needs this vital legislation to protect our citizens. You need to renew the Patriot Act.


The fact that President Bush mentions this so early in his speech is a concern of mine. I don't understand the need to erode our freedom for the purpose of defending against terrorist attacks. Especially because the only terrorist attacks Americans have seen on US soil did not take place as a result of unexecuted warrants, the inability to arrest citizens without charges, or the illegal seizure of property. The Patriot Act seems as deceitful in name as it is in purpose.

The Patriot Act is just one aspect of the President's agenda that seems to offer no real solution to the world's problems.

QUOTE
Drugs:

"So tonight I proposed an additional $23 million for schools that want to use drug testing as a tool to save children's lives. The aim here is not to punish children, but to send them this message: We love you, and we don't want to lose you."

Sex:
"We will double federal funding for abstinence programs, so schools can teach this fact of life: Abstinence for young people is the only certain way to avoid sexually-transmitted diseases. "

Marriage:
"Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage."


These statements exude the ignorance the President has in regard to the reality of these issues. The President also seems to think that the majority of the United States agrees with his religious ideology. Drug testing in schools does not send the message of love to our children. Love is based in trust and communication, not invasion and condemnation. The belief that children should be taught to abstain from drugs and sex and ignore their natural desires to experiment will lead children to make uniformed decisions based on curiosity instead of common sense. Finally, when did it become the duty of our nation's government to protect the church's sanctity of marriage?

QUOTE
What were the strong and weak points of the speech?


I believe the President's lack of integrity permeated throughout the entirety of his speech. I would like to believe that health care and education is a priority to the President. I would like to believe that economic recovery for the working class is a concern. However, I believe the President has marred his credibility so much in the last three years of his presidency that anything he says I cannot take to heart. In short, I don't believe much of what he says...even if I agree with it. I really tried to be objective when reading the President's address. Unfortunately, I cannot see past the monumental mistakes he has made leading this country to accept any of his small successes.
larry
How strong of a "point" was made when the cameras showed invited guest QB Tom Brady?

I wonder how many people are effected (or just encouraged) to vote when they see a figure like a top NFL quarterback on Bush's side.


In any case, his voting record (like many) is potentially circumspect. Though registered, he's never voted. And he may have political aspirations.

This topic also in someway applies to Wes Clark and others with less than ideal voting records. And perhaps should be discussed on another thread. In any case, I'm curious.

QUOTE
From the Smoking Gun -

JANUARY 26--State of the Union guest and Super Bowl quarterback Tom Brady has declined to discuss his political persuasion since scoring that plum invite from President George W. Bush last week. But California election records show that the New England Patriots quarterback has pledged allegiance to neither major party, registering as "undecided" when he joined the voter rolls in July 2000 (shortly before reporting for his first NFL training camp). However, Brady has never bothered to actually vote, according to San Mateo County election records. The 26-year-old athlete punted on the November 2000 general election, missing the Gore-Bush showdown and the reelection bids of Senator Dianne Feinstein and Representative Tom Lantos. He later missed the 2002 gubernatorial race, last year's contentious recall campaign, and other assorted local races and propositions. Now here's the fun part: Brady is also currently registered to vote in Ann Arbor, Michigan, where he played for the University of Michigan. He registered there in September 1996, with the sophomore giving his address as a dormitory where football players resided (Michigan voters do not register in a particular party). Brady, whose Ann Arbor registration remains "active," never made it to the polls during his college years, missing the Clinton-Dole presidential race and assorted local, state, and federal contests, according to a records review conducted by city election officials. Thankfully, the athlete is not registered from a third address, his waterfront Massachusetts compound, according to an election official with the Quincy Town Clerk. In a recent ESPN Magazine interview, Brady reported that his "craziest ambition" was to become a U.S. Senator. Presumably, the QB would scramble to the polls for that election. (2 pages)
HRiot
Okay. I haven't had time to read all the posts yet, so if I repeat what anyone else has said I apologize.
The smirks and bobble heads I saw from Hillary, Ted, and Charlie were not just disrespectful to the President but to the American people also. There's a big difference between disagreeing and criticizing, and being downright childish. Democrats should be offended by this behavior.
Jaime
QUOTE(HRiot @ Jan 27 2004, 10:53 PM)
Okay. I haven't had time to read all the posts yet, so if I repeat what anyone else has said I apologize.

I understand you've not read all the posts, but it seems you've missed the most important one - the first one - with the questions to debate:
*Do you agree/disagree with the President's agenda as set forth in the speech?
*What were the strong and weak points of the speech?
Trouble
Truthfully Jaime Bush's speech was offensive it what it didn't say.

No mention was made of confirmation was made of repeated wmd accusations. The use of the word terrorist was overused to the point where it became a catch-all category for disisdent behaviour.

No mention was made that violence is heating up in Afgahnistan. The situation was grossly smeared on Afghan cleanup efforts.

No mention on how to sustain the various tax cuts were made. No mention was made of the twin deficits that now threaten the american populace in a way that Bin Laden could not. No mention of the new and more impulsive defense strategies of the patriot act II were made. Only a mere mention of the sunset clauses which have absolutely no business becoming permanent

Frankly so much was omitted that everything just appears hunky-dory. The intent of his speech is purposely misleading and is troubling. I feel for anyone who must now assume the presidential position because they will inheret these problems.

[T.]
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