Full Version: Drug War....do we still need it?
The question is obvious: Do we still need the war on drugs?
I started this thread because the other one got closed because of age
Here is why i think we still need it: To fight terrorism
Now that we know Al-Queda is using the selling of drugs as a way to finance itself (proof: US Destroyer seizes boat with drugs on board with Al-Queda ties), we must continue the war on drugs and fight to keep Al-Queda dead.
If Al-Queda is now using selling drugs to finance itself, then we need to continue taking down drug dealers, use a few Daisycutters to destroy the poppy fields in Afghanistan and take down Drug Lords in Columbia and Mexico.
I started this thread because the other one got closed because of age
Here is why i think we still need it: To fight terrorism
Now that we know Al-Queda is using the selling of drugs as a way to finance itself (proof: US Destroyer seizes boat with drugs on board with Al-Queda ties), we must continue the war on drugs and fight to keep Al-Queda dead.
If Al-Queda is now using selling drugs to finance itself, then we need to continue taking down drug dealers, use a few Daisycutters to destroy the poppy fields in Afghanistan and take down Drug Lords in Columbia and Mexico.
For all we know that could be a lie in that the boat is tied to AQ. Maybe the government made that up as propaganda to get people to believe we need to continue the War on Drugs. I say end it and release all the people convicted of nonviolent drug offenses from prison.
It's not really a "war". Just like the "war on terror" is not really a war.
It's misguided. It focuses entirely on destroying the supply and doing nothing to help users kick their habits.
Do we need it? We need something, but calling it a "war" is only going to get the chest-thumping law-and-order types riled up to pass more laws to throw more people -- primarily minorities -- in jail for longer periods of time.
It's time to rethink how we want to engage this problem.
It's misguided. It focuses entirely on destroying the supply and doing nothing to help users kick their habits.
Do we need it? We need something, but calling it a "war" is only going to get the chest-thumping law-and-order types riled up to pass more laws to throw more people -- primarily minorities -- in jail for longer periods of time.
It's time to rethink how we want to engage this problem.
QUOTE(amf @ Jan 23 2004, 01:48 AM)
It's not really a "war". Just like the "war on terror" is not really a war.
It's misguided. It focuses entirely on destroying the supply and doing nothing to help users kick their habits.
Do we need it? We need something, but calling it a "war" is only going to get the chest-thumping law-and-order types riled up to pass more laws to throw more people -- primarily minorities -- in jail for longer periods of time.
It's time to rethink how we want to engage this problem.
It's misguided. It focuses entirely on destroying the supply and doing nothing to help users kick their habits.
Do we need it? We need something, but calling it a "war" is only going to get the chest-thumping law-and-order types riled up to pass more laws to throw more people -- primarily minorities -- in jail for longer periods of time.
It's time to rethink how we want to engage this problem.
Heh, I agree somewhat with AMF.
Where to begin...
Those who create, transport, and sell the drugs should be hunted down and brought to justice.
But, on the other side, I think the law should allow for amount found. People caught with small amounts are by and large the users, to incarcerate them for this I believe is flawed. Addiction is a disease, not a crime, these people should be treated and educated to the dangers their addiction poses to them and those around them.
The wars on drugs or terrorism aren't going to cut the funding to groups like al-Quaeda. Read your commercial history books - if you want to do that, the best way is to legalise them. How long would it be before hard-pressed US or European farmers in suitable areas (say, New Mexico, Texas, Spain, etc) started growing opium poppies, or Caribbean plantations struggling with banana quotas would plant lots of coca?
These places are closer to their source markets, with existing supply chains that are far more efficient than anything the drug lords can come up with. They would not be able to compete, so the funding of groups like AQ from drugs would almost disappear, shifting instead to ordinary farmers, legal distributors, and existing retail operations.
Even if they could compete, how much less money would they be able to make if they had to undercut local prices yet still ship their produce halfway around the world?
Fighting the war on drugs by using guns on their home ground seems a little silly to me, when we know from history that if we just unleash the forces of global capitalism against them, a war which the West has never managed to lose, we'd put them out of the global terror business within a year.
Quite apart from the fact the Western governments could then start to tax the huge revenues of the drug trade, since it would then be part of the legitimate economy. Of course, it would create some health problems, but the commercial standardisation that would come with legality would also remove those caused by diluting cocaine with Drain-o.
It all just boils down to how badly do we want to win, and do we want to fight on our terms, or theirs?
These places are closer to their source markets, with existing supply chains that are far more efficient than anything the drug lords can come up with. They would not be able to compete, so the funding of groups like AQ from drugs would almost disappear, shifting instead to ordinary farmers, legal distributors, and existing retail operations.
Even if they could compete, how much less money would they be able to make if they had to undercut local prices yet still ship their produce halfway around the world?
Fighting the war on drugs by using guns on their home ground seems a little silly to me, when we know from history that if we just unleash the forces of global capitalism against them, a war which the West has never managed to lose, we'd put them out of the global terror business within a year.
Quite apart from the fact the Western governments could then start to tax the huge revenues of the drug trade, since it would then be part of the legitimate economy. Of course, it would create some health problems, but the commercial standardisation that would come with legality would also remove those caused by diluting cocaine with Drain-o.
It all just boils down to how badly do we want to win, and do we want to fight on our terms, or theirs?
QUOTE(GoAmerica @ Jan 22 2004, 04:40 PM)
The question is obvious: Do we still need the war on drugs?
I started this thread because the other one got closed because of age
Here is why i think we still need it: To fight terrorism
Now that we know Al-Queda is using the selling of drugs as a way to finance itself (proof: US Destroyer seizes boat with drugs on board with Al-Queda ties), we must continue the war on drugs and fight to keep Al-Queda dead.
If Al-Queda is now using selling drugs to finance itself, then we need to continue taking down drug dealers, use a few Daisycutters to destroy the poppy fields in Afghanistan and take down Drug Lords in Columbia and Mexico.
I started this thread because the other one got closed because of age
Here is why i think we still need it: To fight terrorism
Now that we know Al-Queda is using the selling of drugs as a way to finance itself (proof: US Destroyer seizes boat with drugs on board with Al-Queda ties), we must continue the war on drugs and fight to keep Al-Queda dead.
If Al-Queda is now using selling drugs to finance itself, then we need to continue taking down drug dealers, use a few Daisycutters to destroy the poppy fields in Afghanistan and take down Drug Lords in Columbia and Mexico.
No.
Basic economics tells us that where there is a demand, someone will become a supplier. People have demanded drugs for all of our recorded history (and almost certainly long before that), and I don't see it changing. We have a basic desire to change our perception. We do this by ingesting toxins, spinning in circles, meditating, going to church, etc.
So killing a bunch of farmers who grow poppies because they represent the greatest profit won't solve the problem - more farmers will always be there to take the risk.
It should also perhaps be noted that under the Taliban, poppy production in Afghanistan came to a virtual standstill - it has only risen again since the Taliban was deposed.
QUOTE
Do we still need the war on drugs?
No.
The 'ol drug and terrorism connection. I think the logic behind this one is that the war on drugs has and apparently will always be a failure so in order to keep the American public's support on wasting it's money on it we have bundled the terrorists and drugs together...as one. Amazing how easily appliable and versatile those terrorists are...terrorism is this season's red
I think we should start a war on diamonds....they too have been financing wars and terrorists the world over. Maybe we should bomb Antwerp next?
The joke that is referred to as the war on drugs is unwinnable and always will be.
There will be points where there is decline but the demand will always remain.
The desire of many people for substances to alter their reality is almost as old as humanity itself.
There are far too many people who do not see drugs as evil nor immoral. Generally this is put forth by those who desire to force others to see the world their way.
The War creates far more casualties than it does any good. It used as the rational for allowing the government to take even more freedoms from us.
We are filling up prisons to very dangerous levels. Creation and institutional hatred of our police. The justice system is unjust in exactlt who serves time and who doesn't.
Most important is that those who propagate the need for this War on Drugs themselves prop up some of the most evil and vile members of humanity. They allow the inflated prices of these drugs to create Empires of Terror and the Self proclaimed Lords of these Cartels increase their influence through the use of terrorist activities. Murder, kidnappings, rape, assasinations, corruption of government and military institutions.
This money is used to finance Terrorists worldwide.
The war on drugs is an abyssmal failure that needs to be ended soon for the good of humanity.
There will be points where there is decline but the demand will always remain.
The desire of many people for substances to alter their reality is almost as old as humanity itself.
There are far too many people who do not see drugs as evil nor immoral. Generally this is put forth by those who desire to force others to see the world their way.
The War creates far more casualties than it does any good. It used as the rational for allowing the government to take even more freedoms from us.
We are filling up prisons to very dangerous levels. Creation and institutional hatred of our police. The justice system is unjust in exactlt who serves time and who doesn't.
Most important is that those who propagate the need for this War on Drugs themselves prop up some of the most evil and vile members of humanity. They allow the inflated prices of these drugs to create Empires of Terror and the Self proclaimed Lords of these Cartels increase their influence through the use of terrorist activities. Murder, kidnappings, rape, assasinations, corruption of government and military institutions.
This money is used to finance Terrorists worldwide.
The war on drugs is an abyssmal failure that needs to be ended soon for the good of humanity.
I honestly believe the only way you could stop terrorists using drugs to make money is by to fully legalize and tax them here in the US. As long as they stay illegal, there is no way we could ever possibly monitor who is actually making money off them. The fact that terrorists are using them as way to fund their war makes absolutely perfect sense, it's one of the few big-money markets in which the US holds almost no domain over.
Now even if every American stopped using drugs, there is absolutely no way you could stop every European, Asian, South American and African from using drugs. I mean that's absolutely impossible. And the terrorists or whoever will continue to make money.
I think anyone with a head on their shoulders can see this is and always has been a losing war. The solution certainly isn't to combat it, but to embrace and understand it.
Now even if every American stopped using drugs, there is absolutely no way you could stop every European, Asian, South American and African from using drugs. I mean that's absolutely impossible. And the terrorists or whoever will continue to make money.
I think anyone with a head on their shoulders can see this is and always has been a losing war. The solution certainly isn't to combat it, but to embrace and understand it.
Perhaps I have my facts wrong(I'm not a "fact-checker" as the president would say) but didn't we give the Taliban-Afghan government millions because of their efforts in reducing the opium trade?? With the rise of the Karzai government, haven't those numbers(of opium that are hitting the world market) actually increased?
QUOTE(GoAmerica @ Jan 22 2004, 06:40 PM)
Now that we know Al-Queda is using the selling of drugs as a way to finance itself (proof: US Destroyer seizes boat with drugs on board with Al-Queda ties), we must continue the war on drugs and fight to keep Al-Queda dead.
If we legalized drugs, and only accepted drugs from approved suppliers, terrorists would lose this source of income immediately. When you prohibit a product in demand you create a highly profitable market for those who do not mind taking the risks of engaging in crime. Terrorists do not mind taking the risks involved with selling drugs. The war on drugs is fulling terrorist's pockets. Let's fight terrorism, legalize drugs!
I have to agree with all the liberals and libertarians on this one- I think it is rather obvious if drugs were legal but taxed that terrorism would logically lose an entire source of funding.
What I don't understand is- why is this such a hard concept for poeple to get thier brains around? Even in the near victorian 1920s morals of the common man, they understood that even though Alcohol is probably the most dangerous and addicting substance known to man, they were just creating a "hidden economy" and black market for the "bad guys".
What I don't understand is- why is this such a hard concept for poeple to get thier brains around? Even in the near victorian 1920s morals of the common man, they understood that even though Alcohol is probably the most dangerous and addicting substance known to man, they were just creating a "hidden economy" and black market for the "bad guys".
The only good thing about the drug war is it prevented Al Gore from being elected President. 
Not only is the war on drugs ridiculous and asinine, it is also completely unconstitutional. What basis is there in the Constitution for allowing the federal government to outlaw intoxicants? Let's look at the Prohibition. Not only does it show the miserable failure of outlawing substances, but it shows something else as well. When alcohol was outlawed, it took nothing less than a Constitutional Amendment to make it illegal. Why? If that's a power the federal government already has, they could have just passed a law, right? But there is NOTHING in the Constitution that would allow the government to do this. Not to mention the idiocy of protecting people from themselves.
QUOTE(Hugo @ Jan 25 2004, 06:31 PM)
The only good thing about the drug war is it prevented Al Gore from being elected President.
I'm not a dentist; I don't pull teeth for a living. Please don't force me to try and extract anything meaningful from this one-liner either. Try being constructive please. 
The point is that the drug war leads to a disproportionate amount of felony convictions among African-Americans. Most of these felons are deprived of the right to vote. African-Americans gave Gore 90% of their vote. No reason to believe the African-Americans convicted of drug felonies would not have voted likewise.Considering the closeness of the 2000 election it is almost a certainty that Gore would have won Florida and the White House if it was not for the war on drugs.
You can declare war on a person.
You can declare war on a place.
You cannot declare war on a thing.
Thus:
There is no "War on Drugs"
There is no "War on Poverty"
and There is no "War on Terrorism"
You can declare war on a place.
You cannot declare war on a thing.
Thus:
There is no "War on Drugs"
There is no "War on Poverty"
and There is no "War on Terrorism"
QUOTE(cultureofgreed @ Jan 26 2004, 07:49 AM)
You can declare war on a person.
You can declare war on a place.
You cannot declare war on a thing.
Thus:
There is no "War on Drugs"
There is no "War on Poverty"
and There is no "War on Terrorism"
You can declare war on a place.
You cannot declare war on a thing.
Thus:
There is no "War on Drugs"
There is no "War on Poverty"
and There is no "War on Terrorism"
I agree 110% I would just add that crusades against "things"-or is it ideas?, springs from some collectivist moralistic thought that reaching to the heavens(surreality rather than reality) is the way to solve social problems. The activists of the drug war appear so much like their earlier 20th century prohibitionist counterparts. Good moral goals, no practical sense.
How would legalizing marijuana help the economy of the United States of America? I think it would help in several ways. Just as much money as America gets on Tobacco and Alcohol from taxes it could make from marijuana. Instead of farmers getting 139 an acre for corn they would make 319 an acre for hemp. It takes 20-100 years to grow a tree to make several pieces of wood while it would take 8 months to a year to grow a stronger more durable plant. This would save the rainforests which could be substantial to the medical world. Many new medicines are being found in the rainforest as we speak.
Another way is lowering the death rate. Millions die from alcohol, millions die from tobacco. No one has ever died from marijuana. And no one means ZERO. Directly or indirectly. Marijuana helps you faces problems and concentrate more and also think outside the box, as alcohol turns you into a raging alcoholic and turns you away from your problems. Tobacco is addictive, physically and mentally, as marijuana is not. I have smoked pot for years and have been off and on (sometimes its difficult to get pot) and have never gone through withdrawal. As is tobacco, I see people go 2 hours without a cigarette and they start going through ashtrays looking for shorts. Lowering the death rate would give the government more taxes also. It would be the recreational drug of choice versus alcohol. The facts are all there, but the government continues to cover it up with bogus studies and lies. Why? Because the Tobacco lobby and Alcohol lobby BOTH pay them to keep marijuana illegal.
My question to everyone is this: If my smoking marijuana hurts only myself... why should it be illegal? Why should I be thrown in prison for something I did to myself that is no worse than smoking a cigarette? I could smoke a pack of cigarettes a day or just 2 joints a day. Why should a stoner be thrown into a cell with a rapist? Why do rapists get shorter sentences than that of a marijuana user? Its my choice what I do with my body, right? Should hairspray be illegal because it kills my brain cells? Or walking outside into polluted atmosphere be illegal because its harming my lungs? The whole drug war is money money money. But that money thats being spent on it could go towards food for the hungry, or medical packages for those who can't afford their hospital bills. Marijuana is also a great plant for medicines. Our
is going towards fighting it and their losing this war on drugs. Put the taxes back into the hands of the American people.
Which would you prefer? Your kids/spouse drinking and driving or at home stoned and raiding the fridge or falling asleep. This law isn't up to us, it's up the how much money the government gets for it.
Truthful Liberty
Another way is lowering the death rate. Millions die from alcohol, millions die from tobacco. No one has ever died from marijuana. And no one means ZERO. Directly or indirectly. Marijuana helps you faces problems and concentrate more and also think outside the box, as alcohol turns you into a raging alcoholic and turns you away from your problems. Tobacco is addictive, physically and mentally, as marijuana is not. I have smoked pot for years and have been off and on (sometimes its difficult to get pot) and have never gone through withdrawal. As is tobacco, I see people go 2 hours without a cigarette and they start going through ashtrays looking for shorts. Lowering the death rate would give the government more taxes also. It would be the recreational drug of choice versus alcohol. The facts are all there, but the government continues to cover it up with bogus studies and lies. Why? Because the Tobacco lobby and Alcohol lobby BOTH pay them to keep marijuana illegal.
My question to everyone is this: If my smoking marijuana hurts only myself... why should it be illegal? Why should I be thrown in prison for something I did to myself that is no worse than smoking a cigarette? I could smoke a pack of cigarettes a day or just 2 joints a day. Why should a stoner be thrown into a cell with a rapist? Why do rapists get shorter sentences than that of a marijuana user? Its my choice what I do with my body, right? Should hairspray be illegal because it kills my brain cells? Or walking outside into polluted atmosphere be illegal because its harming my lungs? The whole drug war is money money money. But that money thats being spent on it could go towards food for the hungry, or medical packages for those who can't afford their hospital bills. Marijuana is also a great plant for medicines. Our
is going towards fighting it and their losing this war on drugs. Put the taxes back into the hands of the American people. Which would you prefer? Your kids/spouse drinking and driving or at home stoned and raiding the fridge or falling asleep. This law isn't up to us, it's up the how much money the government gets for it.
Truthful Liberty
Edited to make text black
The war on drugs is a farce. It's a wag-the-dog game where the fix is in and only the poor saps who are the lowest on the food chain get busted and go to jail.
Until the demand for drugs is curtailed trying to stop the problem by cutting off the supply is like trying to empty the ocean with a spoon. Millions of dollars are thrown at the symptoms and little put into prevention and treatment.
More money needs to put in education and recovery programs and less into interdiction programs that don't work. A classic example of the law of unintended consequences is since the U.SA. punted the Taliban out of power in Afghanistan, the poppy production has returned in full swing.
I'm guessing that Hugo thinks the drug war is good because it disenfranchises a disproportionate amount of African-Americans and every disenfranchised African-American is one less vote for Democratic candidates. That tends to lend credence to black conspiracy theorists that the drug war is a racist plot to keep blacks subordinated.
Until the demand for drugs is curtailed trying to stop the problem by cutting off the supply is like trying to empty the ocean with a spoon. Millions of dollars are thrown at the symptoms and little put into prevention and treatment.
More money needs to put in education and recovery programs and less into interdiction programs that don't work. A classic example of the law of unintended consequences is since the U.SA. punted the Taliban out of power in Afghanistan, the poppy production has returned in full swing.
I'm guessing that Hugo thinks the drug war is good because it disenfranchises a disproportionate amount of African-Americans and every disenfranchised African-American is one less vote for Democratic candidates. That tends to lend credence to black conspiracy theorists that the drug war is a racist plot to keep blacks subordinated.
Everything, in excess, can be bad for you. Alcohol, cig's, marijuana, carbohydrates, heroin, cocain, and even air. Just to prove my point to a friend i inhaled extreme amounts of air for a few minutes and eventually collapsed. Every human has a responsibility they must live with known as life. If an individual is irresponsible with almost any given thing they can throw their life away. Weather you drink and drive, OD on heroin, or ride a bike off a two story building (thrill), its your fault. People blame drugs when a person dies on X. Does anyone ever stop and ask themselves maybe its the persons fault for abusing X or perhaps the illegal provider for not really giving them X but a substitute? Yes, but they would rather have something substantial and easy to attack to put the blame on so they choose the drugs themselves. Drugs should be like sex, promote safe use of them.
I don't need to say all thats been said about weakening terrorist funds and strengthening our economy, many have already covered these areas. I'm simply throwing in a moral view to the mix. Some say drugs are wrong, some don't care, and some think they should be allowed for various critical reasons. I believe it is wrong not to let us have drugs, they are a natural resource. marijuana is a plant, we should use this plant to alter our minds if we wish to. Our government has even outlawed mushrooms, can they cause harm? If used in huge excess they can fry you, but again, the excess issue. People have the right to use natures resources. We always have, from corn to oil we have used them, why not outlaw all gas use, we've used it in excess and its apparently killing our planet. People of all religion's love nature in one form or another, drugs are just one part of nature that can change perception, is it not our right to use these tools to make our life happier.
Its our right, even if you wouldn't ever use drugs, you need to choose to let others do as they wish, freedom.
I don't need to say all thats been said about weakening terrorist funds and strengthening our economy, many have already covered these areas. I'm simply throwing in a moral view to the mix. Some say drugs are wrong, some don't care, and some think they should be allowed for various critical reasons. I believe it is wrong not to let us have drugs, they are a natural resource. marijuana is a plant, we should use this plant to alter our minds if we wish to. Our government has even outlawed mushrooms, can they cause harm? If used in huge excess they can fry you, but again, the excess issue. People have the right to use natures resources. We always have, from corn to oil we have used them, why not outlaw all gas use, we've used it in excess and its apparently killing our planet. People of all religion's love nature in one form or another, drugs are just one part of nature that can change perception, is it not our right to use these tools to make our life happier.
Its our right, even if you wouldn't ever use drugs, you need to choose to let others do as they wish, freedom.
If it is truly a war on drugs, we have lost it. If it had been labeled the Anti-Drug Initiative, it wouldn't sound quite as catchy, but it wouldn't sound as ridiculous as it does now.
I also have a hard time understanding why it is okay in this society to use alcohol and cigarettes, which have well-documented effects on health and safety, but to outlaw the use of marijuana. Alcohol certainly alters the brain as much as marijuana would, and excessive use damages the liver. Drivers reaching down for a lighted cigarette dropped while driving have caused many, many accidents; so have drunk drivers.
As far as the harder drugs go, I can't in good conscience say that they should ever be allowed. But it is clear that the war on drugs will never have a decisive end.
I also have a hard time understanding why it is okay in this society to use alcohol and cigarettes, which have well-documented effects on health and safety, but to outlaw the use of marijuana. Alcohol certainly alters the brain as much as marijuana would, and excessive use damages the liver. Drivers reaching down for a lighted cigarette dropped while driving have caused many, many accidents; so have drunk drivers.
As far as the harder drugs go, I can't in good conscience say that they should ever be allowed. But it is clear that the war on drugs will never have a decisive end.
QUOTE
I also have a hard time understanding why it is okay in this society to use alcohol and cigarettes
Let me help you out, it is a persons own choice weather it is okay or isn't okay to do something, the only time you have the right to make that decision for them is when that person abuses the rights they are given and takes away from your rights. This is why we have laws, no drinking and driving, separate areas in restaurants for smokers. If the war on drugs was ended there would be restrictions to stop others from invading your rights through use of drugs, under the current laws you are allowed to be stoned and drive, as long as you don't possess the marijuana.
QUOTE
under the current laws you are allowed to be stoned and drive, as long as you don't possess the marijuana.
I have to disagree with you. DUI means "driving under the influence" and it can mean under the influence of prescription drugs, alcohol or marijuana. If a person's driving is erratic and a police officer stops the person, the person can be brought into an emergency room to have a blood test. Where I live, it is called "implied consent," meaning that if you refuse to have the blood test, it is the same as pleading nolo contendre and you are going to be treated as guilty.
I see you did not include the entire sentence I had written when you quoted me. It makes a lot more sense as a complete sentence. The fact is that alcohol and cigarettes are taxed by the government, marijuana isn't. It's called a "sin tax," and it allows for a measure of hypocrisy as long as the government profits from the purchase.
I believe the government does make money off marijuana, but than uses it to fight the "drug war". It looks as if they are only keeping it illegal to throw more people into prison and take away americans rights. It's funny that bush used to be a coke addict and now he believes people should be thrown in jail for hard drugs and lesser than hard drugs. What if he got thrown into jail? With people that go in there for rape, robbery, murders and etc. Does someone that had a pot seed in their car deserve that? Does someone who had a joint in their house have their cars, house, and children taken away from them for something that nature grew themselves? Nature made marijuana, man made alcohol, who would you trust? Frankly I don't trust the government as far as I could throw them. If pot were legalized I wouldn't have a doubt that being pulled over with a bag would still get you into trouble. I don't think law enforcement could handle it. While dealing with some stoned teenagers there could be a robbery happening right behind him and hes to busy to look at the bigger problems in society. You could walk up to a officer and tell them your high as a kite, but as long as you don't have it on you theres nothing they could do. I, for one, believe all cops should take a random drug test to see whats really going on. I had a cop bust one of my friends with a pound and they only turned in 2 grams of it. What happened to the rest? He'll never know, but hypocrisy starts at an early age and doesn't grow out of that person. I also think cops should be required to take a psychology exam, because getting paid 24-30 thousand a year to put your life on the line you've got to have something wrong with you.
I have had many experiences with the law enforcement, none pleasant. One time they could have sworn I was high and thought I was stashing marijuana on me somewhere. They took me down to my skivvies in a cold december morning (1 am) and found nothing. Thank God for the stash pockets on jeans. He cursed at me, he threatened me and told me he'd have me down at the ER to take a blood test in 30 minutes if I didnt admit the truth. Now... how long does marijuana stay in your system? Just about 30 days. What good would that have done him? "Oh yeah officer, I quit smoking 29 days ago" Who would have been stuck with that nifty little bill from the ER? And what would it have proved? Not a damn thing.
Bill Clinton used marijuana, he had to lie about it so he could be a President but hell I would have done the same thing. I'm sure almost all the Presidents have used it as youngsters. Most people grow out of it or get sick of getting in trouble with it all the time so they quit. I have not been in trouble for marijuana in the 6 years that I have been smoking. My dad was a cop, so I'm pretty good with handling police. I think its time for America to be a little bit honest with themselves and see who they are really hurting with this drug war. Marijuana has not killed anyone since its existence. Alcohol affects families, destroys families, and kills people directly and indirectly. When people run out of cigarettes they fiend for them like heroin. Lets get together and make America American!
*Note to ADMIN: Thanks
Truthful
Great Site for Marijuana Legalization!!
I have had many experiences with the law enforcement, none pleasant. One time they could have sworn I was high and thought I was stashing marijuana on me somewhere. They took me down to my skivvies in a cold december morning (1 am) and found nothing. Thank God for the stash pockets on jeans. He cursed at me, he threatened me and told me he'd have me down at the ER to take a blood test in 30 minutes if I didnt admit the truth. Now... how long does marijuana stay in your system? Just about 30 days. What good would that have done him? "Oh yeah officer, I quit smoking 29 days ago" Who would have been stuck with that nifty little bill from the ER? And what would it have proved? Not a damn thing.
Bill Clinton used marijuana, he had to lie about it so he could be a President but hell I would have done the same thing. I'm sure almost all the Presidents have used it as youngsters. Most people grow out of it or get sick of getting in trouble with it all the time so they quit. I have not been in trouble for marijuana in the 6 years that I have been smoking. My dad was a cop, so I'm pretty good with handling police. I think its time for America to be a little bit honest with themselves and see who they are really hurting with this drug war. Marijuana has not killed anyone since its existence. Alcohol affects families, destroys families, and kills people directly and indirectly. When people run out of cigarettes they fiend for them like heroin. Lets get together and make America American!
*Note to ADMIN: Thanks
Truthful
Great Site for Marijuana Legalization!!
Well while it seems to be a consensus here that making drugs legal is a good idea, I dont think some of you realize the suffering that they can cause. Now if someone who is grown and responsible for themselves wants to place themselves in a perpetual stupor that is their buisness. However the ingnorance about pot not being addictive is just simply so much nonsense. While it may not be as physically addicting as say herion it IS physically and psycologiacally addicting. My wife works in drug addiction housing for teenage boys. My oldest son is in another addiction housing facility. He started with pot then pills then huffing gas then pain killers. Pot is his drug of choice. However he and thousands just like him DO get addicted to the feeling of being high, not caring much what they take to get that way. We caught him tried to help him ourselves, failed, caught him again turned him in to the police, they tried to scare him, failed. Finally his mother and I and his younger brother were sitting up in 24 hour shifts to keep him from sneaking out to the back yard and huffing gas from one of our four wheelers, I caught him twice doing that to the point of having to be hospitalized. We dont live in the inner city or even in the suburbs of a city. We are in the open country, there are no gangs here, just plain old county kids that hit a joint for kicks a few times and wind up stealing, even from their own families, selling drugs to get money to buy drugs, overdoseing, getting killed while driving a car while high on pot. Dont tell me that no one has ever died from pot, that is a lie! I and my wife have known many children to die from pot. Getting killed while driving under the influence of it. Overdosing on other drugs while too high on pot to know what they were doing. Geting killed by other people who are trying to steal their pot for themselves. Or just plain suffering from drug induced depression and killing themselves. Not to mention the two parents local to us who were killed by their own son who hid their bodies and used their credit cards for cash advances to do what? Buy pot! So smoke another joint and type some opinions here while you are stoned. As one poster said it makes you focus so much better. The war on drugs? Call it what you will, but keep it up, increase it, get the dope out of our schools and school parking lots. If we dont all we are going to have for the future is a bunch of burnt out stoners to lead us into the future. 
I don't know where you got the information saying that a child killed his parents for their credit cards to buy marijuana, I'm sure he killed them for another reason and took their credit cards for more than just that reason. And addicting, anything is addicting in this world but pot is the least of addictiveness. You do not get a headache like you would from lack of coffee. If you want true information I suggest you go to websites that talk about these issues. www.changetheclimate.org is a good one. Those who use other drugs besides pot had the physical want to do those things, and that comes from a poor child hood rather than from "pot". What I put in my body and what I do to my body in the privacy in my very own home is my forte , and frankly thats none of your business.
Ya. Well, if you check the right sources, you will see this. Zero deaths from marijuana. Zero means zero. What they do while they are high is their own problem, and people die from those very same problems even when their not high off of marijuana. Good source for this is HERE
And does marijuana cause violence and crimes such as fighting or stealing... NO! Good source for this is the same website. The only thing hurting people that smoke marijuana are the laws themselves!
You know that movie reefer madness is now a comedy?
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Dont tell me that no one has ever died from pot, that is a lie! I and my wife have known many children to die from pot. Getting killed while driving under the influence of it. Overdosing on other drugs while too high on pot to know what they were doing.
Ya. Well, if you check the right sources, you will see this. Zero deaths from marijuana. Zero means zero. What they do while they are high is their own problem, and people die from those very same problems even when their not high off of marijuana. Good source for this is HERE
And does marijuana cause violence and crimes such as fighting or stealing... NO! Good source for this is the same website. The only thing hurting people that smoke marijuana are the laws themselves!
You know that movie reefer madness is now a comedy?
Frankly FHB420 assuming that you are of adult age, I dont give a hoot what you put in your body, in your own home or elsewhere for that matter as long as you dont injure someone else in a drug induced stupor.
And where I get that the son killed his parents? About five miles away from my home. His admitted reason for doing so was that he and his girl friend needed money so that they could buy pot and party.
As for your thinly veiled inplication about a bad childhood, I have three children, two boys and one girl. Neither of the other two have had any drug problems whatsoever. My eldest son got into trouble by befriending and hanging out at school with some kids spouting the same drivel that you are. Now if we are lucky we might get him out of treatment in about six months and then he faces charges for trafficing at school. The sites you mention are simply sites set up by stoners that post skewed facts to bolster their egos in order to cover the fact that they like you as you state you use pot, cannot face reality without a crutch.
As far as pot not being addictive I have a challange for you sir. Quit. On your own with no help or treatment just lay it down and never do it again. You cant, I know that and you know that though im sure you wont admit it. And dont start telling me about the periods of time you have went without it. You are still on it and without some form of treatment you always will be, even if it wrecks your job family or whatever. But you are an adult and I firmly believe that you should have the right to self destruct if you choose. I simply will not now or ever stop trying to prevent children who dont know enough about life yet to make that choice for themselves from screwing up their future and health before they have a chance to live, just to make a minority of weak willed people who want to make themselves feel better about haveing put a monkey on their back that they dont have the courage or strength to get off. So you are correct sir. What you put in your body is none of my buisness. However the money that you spent to get it that helped the guy who sold it to you get more is. That money very well helped him buy more to sell and chances are that some of that pot wound up in some childs body. That is my buisness and anyone elses buisness that is tired of a minority of weak willed, drug dazed, emotonally crippled people directly and indirectly inflicting so much carnage on the rest of us and our children. And before you yelp about alcohol it is considered a drug and though it is legal those that cant control themselves because of it fall into the same catagory. Oh and by the way using Jimmy Carter's message to congress as a reference? Most politicans are greatly uninformed about the great majority of things except getting re elected. As for Carters grasp of social and economic issues I think his record as president and his landslide booting out of office by the voters in his bid to be elected again speaks for itself.
And where I get that the son killed his parents? About five miles away from my home. His admitted reason for doing so was that he and his girl friend needed money so that they could buy pot and party.
As for your thinly veiled inplication about a bad childhood, I have three children, two boys and one girl. Neither of the other two have had any drug problems whatsoever. My eldest son got into trouble by befriending and hanging out at school with some kids spouting the same drivel that you are. Now if we are lucky we might get him out of treatment in about six months and then he faces charges for trafficing at school. The sites you mention are simply sites set up by stoners that post skewed facts to bolster their egos in order to cover the fact that they like you as you state you use pot, cannot face reality without a crutch.
As far as pot not being addictive I have a challange for you sir. Quit. On your own with no help or treatment just lay it down and never do it again. You cant, I know that and you know that though im sure you wont admit it. And dont start telling me about the periods of time you have went without it. You are still on it and without some form of treatment you always will be, even if it wrecks your job family or whatever. But you are an adult and I firmly believe that you should have the right to self destruct if you choose. I simply will not now or ever stop trying to prevent children who dont know enough about life yet to make that choice for themselves from screwing up their future and health before they have a chance to live, just to make a minority of weak willed people who want to make themselves feel better about haveing put a monkey on their back that they dont have the courage or strength to get off. So you are correct sir. What you put in your body is none of my buisness. However the money that you spent to get it that helped the guy who sold it to you get more is. That money very well helped him buy more to sell and chances are that some of that pot wound up in some childs body. That is my buisness and anyone elses buisness that is tired of a minority of weak willed, drug dazed, emotonally crippled people directly and indirectly inflicting so much carnage on the rest of us and our children. And before you yelp about alcohol it is considered a drug and though it is legal those that cant control themselves because of it fall into the same catagory. Oh and by the way using Jimmy Carter's message to congress as a reference? Most politicans are greatly uninformed about the great majority of things except getting re elected. As for Carters grasp of social and economic issues I think his record as president and his landslide booting out of office by the voters in his bid to be elected again speaks for itself.
Hmm- I smoked pot probably for about 10 years regularly, and enjoyed it. When I thought it might affect my employment, I quit. No help, no withdrawing side effects, no overwhelming desire for more pot. The only thing I feel about it now is kind of upset that we have a big brother goverment telling me what I can't do on my free time. I don't drink alcohol, have no other "vices" other than fast cars. 
I don't drink now, don't smoke and don't do really anything that I think might lead my kids to believe that I approve of thier use of it. That includes the fact that I watch my diet and exercise, because fat parents usually means fat kids, since lifestyle is as important as genetics in some ways for a childs health.
I work with adolecents for a living archer1958- and what you are telling me about your kid leads me to believe I don't get the whole story. Kids rarely just suddenly hook up with the bad kids and get hooked on drugs, and quite frankly, marijuana is just not addicting that way. The social acceptance of his buddies is far more addicting, and you have to look at the root cause of that particular thing first.
I don't drink now, don't smoke and don't do really anything that I think might lead my kids to believe that I approve of thier use of it. That includes the fact that I watch my diet and exercise, because fat parents usually means fat kids, since lifestyle is as important as genetics in some ways for a childs health.
I work with adolecents for a living archer1958- and what you are telling me about your kid leads me to believe I don't get the whole story. Kids rarely just suddenly hook up with the bad kids and get hooked on drugs, and quite frankly, marijuana is just not addicting that way. The social acceptance of his buddies is far more addicting, and you have to look at the root cause of that particular thing first.
Lol. Archer your funny. If it was addictive I wouldn't be able to go long periods of time without it. Are you addicted to brushing your teeth? If your not why not quit right now, just put it down and never pick it up again. Your telling people to quit things that they enjoy, and as a crutch for reality... reality is enhanced when I smoke a joint and frankly I see things in a different perspective and have a better personality than most people. If anyone looked at a group of people, lets say 10 people. And half of those people smoked marijuana, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell what half. I have known neurophyschiatrists, nurses, M.D., police, teachers, assistants, home business owners and many other successful people to smoke marijuana. Drug test all the doctors on surprise, and I bet you'll have a surprise for yourself. Because its addicting does that mean coffee should be illegal too? What about cigarettes? What about fun, everyone gets addicted to fun. Your telling me all these things that aren't making sense archer. That you had great kids but one was I guess an outcast? Maybe he saw you gloating over your other successful children and didn't see or feel the love that they were getting. Everyone has a reason for what they do. I smoke weed because I am an insomniac. Prescriptions- Build tolerance to very easily. In fact I have not slept since I woke up on Friday morning. Not because of the lack of weed, actually my whole life up til I was 13 I told myself I wasn't going to smoke. But after I lost weeks of sleep and the pills that were prescribed to me weren't working, I decided to try it. Because all marijuana does is make you sleep.
Now I'm going to do this. I'm going to open a new explorer window (click) and I'm going to type Define Addict-ing;ed;ive
www.dictionary.com
Addict-
To cause to become physiologically or psychologically dependent on a habit-forming substance: The thief was addicted to cocaine.
To occupy (oneself) with or involve (oneself) in something habitually or compulsively: The child was addicted to video games.
Dependent.... meaning you can't go without it. Your body and mind have become dependent on it and you can't go without it. So far I'm doing good.... been about a month.
Habitually or compusively.... meaning its become a habit to do like brushing your teeth every morning. Or compusively as in you do it over and over and can't go without it.
Now if I was addicted I'd be on the streets right now in pretty rough shape without my "pot". Offering my body for roaches. Selling fake rolexes to get by the day. No. I'm not addicted. I don't fiend for it, I don't spend every last dollar on it, actually I never buy marijuana.
Now I really don't believe that one. And if it is true than they lied. They lied to get sympathy because a jury would give them a lighter sentence thinking that they did it for marijuana. I have never EVER in my life had an urge to steal, lie, threaten, or kill someone for a joint. Never. And killing my own family to steal money for pot, thats blown it a little bit of the top. Obviously not good enough love went into these ones.
I am sure that you were a great parent, I'm sure you did very well on raising your children. My dad is a retired Officer of the Law and Military and is now making A LOT of money. My mom works hard and harder than anyone I've ever known in my life. But they always managed to make sure our homework was done, to get to our games and to treat us like adults when we were adults. They have never missed a meal with their children or missed a moment with their children. I didn't start smoking because I was mad at my parents. If I was angry I would have done harder things. Being a "stoner" has led me to many opportunities to do a line of coke, take some acid or ecstasy, eat shrooms or hell even drink some alcohol. But I do none of the above, I have turned down all that isn't marijuana. My brothers are the same way. We do it because we do love our parents and are grateful for them. If kids were "spitting out the same drivel" that I was than this world would already have legalized marijuana and their would be less violence.
Karma.
Those sites that I mentioned gave references and you can look up such references yourself if you were truly into this debate. Prove me wrong. But show me the evidence. It is obvious that you have been misleaded, and I don't blame you. Everyone that believes marijuana should stay illegal have been misleaded by the ads, the government, and the "earlier signs of scientific research". But in this time of era, its time to wake up and realize that the only thing we are doing is wasting taxpayers dollars, only lying to kids (lying leads to no trust in the government or adults so kids are usually glamorized rather than scared) and wasting important resources on this Earth. Maybe you should read on a little bit more and than debate with me later on in the future, because I'm not worried about changing your mind. Your only one person and theres millions of others that say differently.
Your only proving more of my points archer, its not looking good for ya bud. If it WERE legal than a child would not be able to obtain this "plant of the devil". A minor would have to show I.D. This is control. Drug dealers would not HAVE to sell it as the government would sell it. Why hell I could grow it myself. Again. Don't worry about me, worry about you and you only. And your family if you choose to, I can't blame you for that.
America. Land of the Free. Liberty. And Justice for all. FOR ALL!
(FYI) I didn't use Jimmy Carter's quote. That was someone elses website so that cannot be held against me in the court of law
Man I cannot let go of your post Archer. Please do us a favor. Your confusing me to the point that I have to read a sentence of yours over and over. Run on sentences are a doozy.
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As far as pot not being addictive I have a challange for you sir. Quit. On your own with no help or treatment just lay it down and never do it again. You cant, I know that and you know that though im sure you wont admit it. And dont start telling me about the periods of time you have went without it.
Now I'm going to do this. I'm going to open a new explorer window (click) and I'm going to type Define Addict-ing;ed;ive
www.dictionary.com
Addict-
To cause to become physiologically or psychologically dependent on a habit-forming substance: The thief was addicted to cocaine.
To occupy (oneself) with or involve (oneself) in something habitually or compulsively: The child was addicted to video games.
Dependent.... meaning you can't go without it. Your body and mind have become dependent on it and you can't go without it. So far I'm doing good.... been about a month.
Habitually or compusively.... meaning its become a habit to do like brushing your teeth every morning. Or compusively as in you do it over and over and can't go without it.
Now if I was addicted I'd be on the streets right now in pretty rough shape without my "pot". Offering my body for roaches. Selling fake rolexes to get by the day. No. I'm not addicted. I don't fiend for it, I don't spend every last dollar on it, actually I never buy marijuana.
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And where I get that the son killed his parents? About five miles away from my home. His admitted reason for doing so was that he and his girl friend needed money so that they could buy pot and party.
Now I really don't believe that one. And if it is true than they lied. They lied to get sympathy because a jury would give them a lighter sentence thinking that they did it for marijuana. I have never EVER in my life had an urge to steal, lie, threaten, or kill someone for a joint. Never. And killing my own family to steal money for pot, thats blown it a little bit of the top. Obviously not good enough love went into these ones.
I am sure that you were a great parent, I'm sure you did very well on raising your children. My dad is a retired Officer of the Law and Military and is now making A LOT of money. My mom works hard and harder than anyone I've ever known in my life. But they always managed to make sure our homework was done, to get to our games and to treat us like adults when we were adults. They have never missed a meal with their children or missed a moment with their children. I didn't start smoking because I was mad at my parents. If I was angry I would have done harder things. Being a "stoner" has led me to many opportunities to do a line of coke, take some acid or ecstasy, eat shrooms or hell even drink some alcohol. But I do none of the above, I have turned down all that isn't marijuana. My brothers are the same way. We do it because we do love our parents and are grateful for them. If kids were "spitting out the same drivel" that I was than this world would already have legalized marijuana and their would be less violence.
Karma.
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The sites you mention are simply sites set up by stoners that post skewed facts to bolster their egos in order to cover the fact that they like you as you state you use pot, cannot face reality without a crutch.
Those sites that I mentioned gave references and you can look up such references yourself if you were truly into this debate. Prove me wrong. But show me the evidence. It is obvious that you have been misleaded, and I don't blame you. Everyone that believes marijuana should stay illegal have been misleaded by the ads, the government, and the "earlier signs of scientific research". But in this time of era, its time to wake up and realize that the only thing we are doing is wasting taxpayers dollars, only lying to kids (lying leads to no trust in the government or adults so kids are usually glamorized rather than scared) and wasting important resources on this Earth. Maybe you should read on a little bit more and than debate with me later on in the future, because I'm not worried about changing your mind. Your only one person and theres millions of others that say differently.
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However the money that you spent to get it that helped the guy who sold it to you get more is. That money very well helped him buy more to sell and chances are that some of that pot wound up in some childs body. That is my buisness and anyone elses buisness that is tired of a minority of weak willed, drug dazed, emotonally crippled people directly and indirectly inflicting so much carnage on the rest of us and our children.
Your only proving more of my points archer, its not looking good for ya bud. If it WERE legal than a child would not be able to obtain this "plant of the devil". A minor would have to show I.D. This is control. Drug dealers would not HAVE to sell it as the government would sell it. Why hell I could grow it myself. Again. Don't worry about me, worry about you and you only. And your family if you choose to, I can't blame you for that.
America. Land of the Free. Liberty. And Justice for all. FOR ALL!(FYI) I didn't use Jimmy Carter's quote. That was someone elses website so that cannot be held against me in the court of law
Man I cannot let go of your post Archer. Please do us a favor. Your confusing me to the point that I have to read a sentence of yours over and over. Run on sentences are a doozy.
Ok. Fhb420. Ill try to keep my sentences short so you dont have a problem. I dont have a problem with legalizing pot for adult use. It is no worse than alcohol. I have a problem with two things. One, that you seem to want to glorify the use of a particular drug in order to make your point. That you say that the effects of pot use are postive. That maybe true for a cancer patient to control pain, but not for the average person. Just like alcohol, it dulls your reflexes and impairs your judgement. The impaired judgement is what leads to the use of other drugs WHILE under the influence of pot and that happens mostly in juviniles. Opps sorry, a run on sentence. 
As for the post before yours, I am an ex police officer, volunteer fire and rescue, and also worked a few years as an E.M.T. Ive dealt with my share of children as well. My wife works in drug rehab for juviniles as well. Children OFTEN begin smoking pot with peers simply because of peer pressure and no other reason. The movement to other drugs is usually in a search for a better high. Some of them can be turned around after they are detoxed and keep clean for a long period of time. A great many will graduate from a treatment center only to go right back to using drugs. Yes quite a few of them die, mostly from overdose but also violent crime or suicide. As for my looking up research to post here, all you have to do is take a cursory look around you. Legalize pot for adult if you want, but if you do make sure that juviniles cant get it.
As for the post before yours, I am an ex police officer, volunteer fire and rescue, and also worked a few years as an E.M.T. Ive dealt with my share of children as well. My wife works in drug rehab for juviniles as well. Children OFTEN begin smoking pot with peers simply because of peer pressure and no other reason. The movement to other drugs is usually in a search for a better high. Some of them can be turned around after they are detoxed and keep clean for a long period of time. A great many will graduate from a treatment center only to go right back to using drugs. Yes quite a few of them die, mostly from overdose but also violent crime or suicide. As for my looking up research to post here, all you have to do is take a cursory look around you. Legalize pot for adult if you want, but if you do make sure that juviniles cant get it.
Illegal= Drug Dealers sell to anyone who has the cash.
Legal= Convenience stores and super markets sell to someone with a birthdate making them 18 or older and they have to supply an I.D
No Archer, that doesn't work like that. That is in your opinion. Yes, many people do start smoking pot. Now if only they stayed to pot. But for some reason they decide to do other drugs. Now if only half the kids used pot as a gateway drug than their would be over 750,000 coke and heroin addicts in the U.S not counting whos already addicted to such hard drugs. Archer I'm thinking that your using half-truths to try to make a point here. You grew up in the 60's and 70's, you didn't regularly use marijuana? Be honest.
Also, while being stoned I have a hard enough time getting up to do something. Which is the same for most "under the influence". So I have a hard time seeing a marijuana user getting up and wanting to do harder drugs. Drugs and guns don't kill people, stupid people kill stupid people. All the things that you talk about happen in every day life without the presence of marijuana.
I don't think you could even compare the two together. I never get tipsy while under the influence, I never get angry, aggravated, or violent. As for dulling your reflexes. I have been in 2 major car accidents while NOT under the influence of marijuana, both of which were not my fault. I have nearly been in 5 other accidents that could have killed me while under the influence of marijuana (that wouldn't have been my fault) and avoided them like you would not believe. For example, my friend was high in the car with me one time and out of the blue grabbed my steering wheel and put me in the left lane, seconds before a car came blazing out of a road to the side. It was almost like he was psychic. Another one was when some lady was in the median waiting and her puppy jumped in her lap and she let go of the brake. She rolled out and I was doing 65 down the highway when I noticed and had to jump in between two cars in the other lane, dive into a side road in between a semi and a ditch. I had a horrible leg cramp that lasted 2 days but I have to say if I wasn't high I would be dead. Marijuana causes a paranoia rather than affecting your attention span. Not true for all people, but true for me. I remember a time sitting out back as a teen at work with some friends smoking marijuana when the back door to the restaurant started to close. All of the employees were outside, doors locked (dining room was closed) and the back door automatically closed. I dove under a huge guy and saved the door from closing, which saved my job, my bosses job, and the other employees jobs.
Yes. BUT! Those people had to have the psychologically want and need to do whose other drugs. That comes from bad parenting. The parents have every thing to do in the world with what their children do. If a parent told their kid it was O.K to smoke marijuana but if they caught them doing anything else they'd be disappointed or down right angry, than that would put a trust bond between the two. Not only did the parent not lie to the teen about marijuana, but opened a door for discussion and trust. Instead a parent lies to their children about it, so the child picks up the lying from the parent.
Wasn't a run on sentence.
Children also begin walking, talking, having sex, doing homework, drinking, chewing on their fingernails, smoking cigarettes, and many other things before beginning to smoke "pot". And as for no other reason... I didn't start because of peer pressure. No one told me to or recommended to do so. You have your mind fixated on something and your not open to opinions.
-FhB's General Warning: Smoking marijuana often leads to eating, sleepiness, and having a good time with some friends in the comfort of your own home. Also leads to appetite in cancer patients and aneroxics and dry mouth. After waking up the next morning you might experience relaxation, turbulence, and a motive to wake up and get on with the day so you may enjoy the night. But beware, can also create a relationship which may last forever. For example me and my wife met because of marijuana and I wouldn't trade her in for the world.
Legal= Convenience stores and super markets sell to someone with a birthdate making them 18 or older and they have to supply an I.D
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As for my looking up research to post here, all you have to do is take a cursory look around you.
No Archer, that doesn't work like that. That is in your opinion. Yes, many people do start smoking pot. Now if only they stayed to pot. But for some reason they decide to do other drugs. Now if only half the kids used pot as a gateway drug than their would be over 750,000 coke and heroin addicts in the U.S not counting whos already addicted to such hard drugs. Archer I'm thinking that your using half-truths to try to make a point here. You grew up in the 60's and 70's, you didn't regularly use marijuana? Be honest.
Also, while being stoned I have a hard enough time getting up to do something. Which is the same for most "under the influence". So I have a hard time seeing a marijuana user getting up and wanting to do harder drugs. Drugs and guns don't kill people, stupid people kill stupid people. All the things that you talk about happen in every day life without the presence of marijuana.
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Just like alcohol, it dulls your reflexes and impairs your judgement. The impaired judgement is what leads to the use of other drugs WHILE under the influence of pot and that happens mostly in juviniles.
I don't think you could even compare the two together. I never get tipsy while under the influence, I never get angry, aggravated, or violent. As for dulling your reflexes. I have been in 2 major car accidents while NOT under the influence of marijuana, both of which were not my fault. I have nearly been in 5 other accidents that could have killed me while under the influence of marijuana (that wouldn't have been my fault) and avoided them like you would not believe. For example, my friend was high in the car with me one time and out of the blue grabbed my steering wheel and put me in the left lane, seconds before a car came blazing out of a road to the side. It was almost like he was psychic. Another one was when some lady was in the median waiting and her puppy jumped in her lap and she let go of the brake. She rolled out and I was doing 65 down the highway when I noticed and had to jump in between two cars in the other lane, dive into a side road in between a semi and a ditch. I had a horrible leg cramp that lasted 2 days but I have to say if I wasn't high I would be dead. Marijuana causes a paranoia rather than affecting your attention span. Not true for all people, but true for me. I remember a time sitting out back as a teen at work with some friends smoking marijuana when the back door to the restaurant started to close. All of the employees were outside, doors locked (dining room was closed) and the back door automatically closed. I dove under a huge guy and saved the door from closing, which saved my job, my bosses job, and the other employees jobs.
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The movement to other drugs is usually in a search for a better high.
Yes. BUT! Those people had to have the psychologically want and need to do whose other drugs. That comes from bad parenting. The parents have every thing to do in the world with what their children do. If a parent told their kid it was O.K to smoke marijuana but if they caught them doing anything else they'd be disappointed or down right angry, than that would put a trust bond between the two. Not only did the parent not lie to the teen about marijuana, but opened a door for discussion and trust. Instead a parent lies to their children about it, so the child picks up the lying from the parent.
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The impaired judgement is what leads to the use of other drugs WHILE under the influence of pot and that happens mostly in juviniles. Opps sorry, a run on sentence
Wasn't a run on sentence.
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OFTEN begin smoking pot with peers simply because of peer pressure and no other reason.
Children also begin walking, talking, having sex, doing homework, drinking, chewing on their fingernails, smoking cigarettes, and many other things before beginning to smoke "pot". And as for no other reason... I didn't start because of peer pressure. No one told me to or recommended to do so. You have your mind fixated on something and your not open to opinions.
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One, that you seem to want to glorify the use of a particular drug in order to make your point. That you say that the effects of pot use are postive.
-FhB's General Warning: Smoking marijuana often leads to eating, sleepiness, and having a good time with some friends in the comfort of your own home. Also leads to appetite in cancer patients and aneroxics and dry mouth. After waking up the next morning you might experience relaxation, turbulence, and a motive to wake up and get on with the day so you may enjoy the night. But beware, can also create a relationship which may last forever. For example me and my wife met because of marijuana and I wouldn't trade her in for the world.
Ok Fhb420, firstly I wish I could figure out how to put quotes in those niffty little boxes.
Now onward thru the fog! I just want to see if I am for sure understanding what you are stating. That there is no downside to the use of pot at all. That you believe that your reflexes and judgement are as good or better when you are stoned as when you are sober. That no violent acts can be traced back to being caused either by the use of or the dealing of pot.
Now to answer your question about my pot usage. Yes I graduated in 1976 form high school. No I had never tried pot until the age of 26. I did it once got very high as my friend was a avid pot smoker and had some good stuff. During this two year period I was also a very heavy drinker, not beer, the hard stuff. I did not however mix the two when i tried pot. MY judgement reflexes, and common sense went out the window on pot just as it did on booze. The only difference is that it made me hungry whereas booze did not. A number of my friends at the time were heavy pot smokers and the results for them were the same. I have watched them stoned, start fights, steal, simply sit down it the middle of the street with no regard for their own safety, and stand in public and urinate in their pants while thinking they were in the restroom. I am no angel and have done most things at least twice before I wised up.
As an ex police officer I have had occasion to arrest the same individuals on more than one occasion. Sober they to a man gave no resistance and were cooperative. Drunk they almost always would run or fight. At least four individuals smoked pot exclusively. Same thing. Not stoned they behaved in a normal manner not resisting or attempting to evade. Stoned they invairiably fought tried to evade if the chance presented itself or both. I am not saying all pot smokers are violent. What I am saying from expierience is that pot smokers dont get violent when stoned is a myth.
Now onward thru the fog! I just want to see if I am for sure understanding what you are stating. That there is no downside to the use of pot at all. That you believe that your reflexes and judgement are as good or better when you are stoned as when you are sober. That no violent acts can be traced back to being caused either by the use of or the dealing of pot.
Now to answer your question about my pot usage. Yes I graduated in 1976 form high school. No I had never tried pot until the age of 26. I did it once got very high as my friend was a avid pot smoker and had some good stuff. During this two year period I was also a very heavy drinker, not beer, the hard stuff. I did not however mix the two when i tried pot. MY judgement reflexes, and common sense went out the window on pot just as it did on booze. The only difference is that it made me hungry whereas booze did not. A number of my friends at the time were heavy pot smokers and the results for them were the same. I have watched them stoned, start fights, steal, simply sit down it the middle of the street with no regard for their own safety, and stand in public and urinate in their pants while thinking they were in the restroom. I am no angel and have done most things at least twice before I wised up.
As an ex police officer I have had occasion to arrest the same individuals on more than one occasion. Sober they to a man gave no resistance and were cooperative. Drunk they almost always would run or fight. At least four individuals smoked pot exclusively. Same thing. Not stoned they behaved in a normal manner not resisting or attempting to evade. Stoned they invairiably fought tried to evade if the chance presented itself or both. I am not saying all pot smokers are violent. What I am saying from expierience is that pot smokers dont get violent when stoned is a myth.
"I have watched them stoned, start fights, steal, simply sit down it the middle of the street with no regard for their own safety, and stand in public and urinate in their pants while thinking they were in the restroom. "
Wow- some friends you have there!
I have friends that are (now recovering) raging alcoholics, and didn't "urinate in their pants while thinking they were in the restroom. "
Sounds an awful like hyperbole to me archer- the very same kind of hyperbole that makes kids role thier eyes and go right back to the bong when you tell them that they are going to "die after one hit" (I actually heard a cop saying that once in high school in a rallye once).
If you are going to give the "evils" of pot- tell the truth as hit will hit the most amount of poeople. 99% of poeple that smoke pot are NOT going to pee in thier pants and start fights.
Marijuana WILL lead to unemployment, wieght gain and lack of ambition.
Wow- some friends you have there!
I have friends that are (now recovering) raging alcoholics, and didn't "urinate in their pants while thinking they were in the restroom. "
Sounds an awful like hyperbole to me archer- the very same kind of hyperbole that makes kids role thier eyes and go right back to the bong when you tell them that they are going to "die after one hit" (I actually heard a cop saying that once in high school in a rallye once).
If you are going to give the "evils" of pot- tell the truth as hit will hit the most amount of poeople. 99% of poeple that smoke pot are NOT going to pee in thier pants and start fights.
Marijuana WILL lead to unemployment, wieght gain and lack of ambition.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Feb 24 2004, 06:45 AM)
If you are going to give the "evils" of pot- tell the truth as hit will hit the most amount of poeople. 99% of poeple that smoke pot are NOT going to pee in thier pants and start fights.
Marijuana WILL lead to unemployment, wieght gain and lack of ambition.
To this day, I still see marijuana use glamourized.
As if it is a great, cool, mellow, peaceful type of
recreation.
In reality it is like what CR has said, people
who habitually use pot will not hold onto jobs, they
will become very complacent, and around the age
of 30 or earlier, they will start to look very pathetic
to the rest of the world.
Someone, who is very close to me, used pot for
15 years. It made him very apathetic to those
around him, and it hindered him from becoming
successful and setting and achieving goals.
The war on drugs is an individual war that we must
all fight. It doesn't stop with marijuana and all
the other well-known drugs. It includes all the
garbage that doctors and psychiatrists are doling
out, in the name of mental health.
I couldn't agree with you more DP- The only way to deal with this is to tell the truth and take away the glamour. With all the hyperbole around pot, it is playing right into the drug culture's hand- it makes the "reefer madness" types a cartoon of themselves- it makes "officer standanko" of every cop who comes to your school to talk about the "horrors" of marijuana.
When I give an anti-drug or actually, drug abuse recovery group at my job- I would lose all credibility if I cited Archers example of urination- what I do is go after thier hopes and dreams- I ask the kid, what do you want to be when you grow up? And 99% of what they say- pot will stop or slow down thier road to success- and if you point that out- you gain credibilty. I personally know several decades long very succesful pot smokers- professionals that don't happen to have to be drug tested.
The first thing we have to do if we don't want our kids to do drugs is be good parents.
Archer.... You have some incredibly sad stories that need to be shared with the rest of the world. It brings a tear to my eye.
As I sit on this marijuana joint unable to pull myself off the couch cause I am to stoned to move a muscle... I wish I could hit that guy but I really don't care...
Heres a conversation between two marijuana users-
"Hey"
"You wanna go steal a car?"
"Nah, not really."
"Me neither, hmmmm "
"Lets go find some people and beat them up and steal their shoes"
"Nah, I don't wanna get up right now. This weed is weighing me down"
"Wanna order a pizza and play some PS2?"
"Than we can get online and make fun of www.freevibe.com and that Archer dude, hahaha
"
You know... for being as elderly as you are, and seeing that I am a dumb pot user... the grammar comparison is completely mind blowing. Here I am talking to a EMT, ex police officer, and Volunteer Fire and Rescue whos sentences make no sense (no inflammatory intended, I am trying to make a point).
Watch. Neat boxes.
Dealing- Yes, but because of marijuana, no. Because of the money. Money can make a man crazy insane insane crazy. Money is power and power is in the hands of the person with the most money. Violent acts BECAUSE of marijuana... I don't think so. Now maybe... just maybe... some kid got ripped off of a sack and faught the dealer or middleman. But it wasn't the marijuana, it was the fact that some guy just took his money. Money. People sometimes have NO motives for taking money other than wanting or needing the money itself.
Downside? Probably what CR said. He made a valid point. Unemployment and obesity and probably loss of ambition. I don't agree 100% with ambition, but with most people yeah ambition goes too. As I have said before, I know people that have made in a year than you have in your life time that use marijuana. Its all mostly about the person, not the drug. Unemployment... if I was an employer and marijuana was illegal hell yeah I'd take advantage of a marijuana user. Get injured on the job, see who doesn't get workmans compensation. They take the drug test, they fail, they lose the workmans comp. Not fair considering marijuana stays in your system for so long but what the hey, gotta take advantage of that deal. Out of many of my jobs I have admitted I smoke marijuana and told my employer that I think it should be legal. They usually look at me, blink once, and say I used to be the same way and still think it should be legal. Honesty. Gets you far in this world.
Your friends...are EDITED TO REMOVE PROFANITY FILTER BYPASS ATTEMPT. My friends and other people I smoke with in their 40's, 50's, 60's, and one 70 year old (smoked a blunt with him because he fixed my car) are usually laid back, pretty silent, paranoid... and hungry. Especially hungry and thirsty.
I'm not arguing with you anymore Archer. You need to research the facts. I have several 1000's of websites you can visit that have references and quotes. Go to google.com and ask "Why should America decriminalize marijuana?" You'll be surprised at what you get.
And out of all that you have told me Archer. You have only made me want to smoke more. Alot more. Not because I'm addicted, but because I know it disappoints you. It angers you. It hits that little nerve in that brain of yours that keeps telling you "Marijuana is bad, worse than alcohol, worse than cigs, worse than crack cocaine. It should be banned and anyone that smokes it should be hung!"
Also... Anyone that is violent while stoned- either they are violent when they aren't stoned, something was in the weed, or the weed wasn't great.
As I sit on this marijuana joint unable to pull myself off the couch cause I am to stoned to move a muscle... I wish I could hit that guy but I really don't care...
Heres a conversation between two marijuana users-
"Hey"
"You wanna go steal a car?"
"Nah, not really."
"Me neither, hmmmm
""Lets go find some people and beat them up and steal their shoes"
"Nah, I don't wanna get up right now. This weed is weighing me down"
"Wanna order a pizza and play some PS2?"
"Than we can get online and make fun of www.freevibe.com and that Archer dude, hahaha
"You know... for being as elderly as you are, and seeing that I am a dumb pot user... the grammar comparison is completely mind blowing. Here I am talking to a EMT, ex police officer, and Volunteer Fire and Rescue whos sentences make no sense (no inflammatory intended, I am trying to make a point).
Watch. Neat boxes.
QUOTE
That there is no downside to the use of pot at all. That you believe that your reflexes and judgement are as good or better when you are stoned as when you are sober. That no violent acts can be traced back to being caused either by the use of or the dealing of pot.
Dealing- Yes, but because of marijuana, no. Because of the money. Money can make a man crazy insane insane crazy. Money is power and power is in the hands of the person with the most money. Violent acts BECAUSE of marijuana... I don't think so. Now maybe... just maybe... some kid got ripped off of a sack and faught the dealer or middleman. But it wasn't the marijuana, it was the fact that some guy just took his money. Money. People sometimes have NO motives for taking money other than wanting or needing the money itself.
QUOTE
I just want to see if I am for sure understanding what you are stating. That there is no downside to the use of pot at all.
Downside? Probably what CR said. He made a valid point. Unemployment and obesity and probably loss of ambition. I don't agree 100% with ambition, but with most people yeah ambition goes too. As I have said before, I know people that have made in a year than you have in your life time that use marijuana. Its all mostly about the person, not the drug. Unemployment... if I was an employer and marijuana was illegal hell yeah I'd take advantage of a marijuana user. Get injured on the job, see who doesn't get workmans compensation. They take the drug test, they fail, they lose the workmans comp. Not fair considering marijuana stays in your system for so long but what the hey, gotta take advantage of that deal. Out of many of my jobs I have admitted I smoke marijuana and told my employer that I think it should be legal. They usually look at me, blink once, and say I used to be the same way and still think it should be legal. Honesty. Gets you far in this world.
QUOTE
I have watched them stoned, start fights, steal, simply sit down it the middle of the street with no regard for their own safety, and stand in public and urinate in their pants while thinking they were in the restroom.
Your friends...are EDITED TO REMOVE PROFANITY FILTER BYPASS ATTEMPT. My friends and other people I smoke with in their 40's, 50's, 60's, and one 70 year old (smoked a blunt with him because he fixed my car) are usually laid back, pretty silent, paranoid... and hungry. Especially hungry and thirsty.
I'm not arguing with you anymore Archer. You need to research the facts. I have several 1000's of websites you can visit that have references and quotes. Go to google.com and ask "Why should America decriminalize marijuana?" You'll be surprised at what you get.
And out of all that you have told me Archer. You have only made me want to smoke more. Alot more. Not because I'm addicted, but because I know it disappoints you. It angers you. It hits that little nerve in that brain of yours that keeps telling you "Marijuana is bad, worse than alcohol, worse than cigs, worse than crack cocaine. It should be banned and anyone that smokes it should be hung!"
Also... Anyone that is violent while stoned- either they are violent when they aren't stoned, something was in the weed, or the weed wasn't great.
This debate is getting FAR too personal. Stick to the issues and try to avoid the anectdotal evidence for a bit.
TOPICS TO DEBATE:
Do we still need the war on drugs?
TOPICS TO DEBATE:
Do we still need the war on drugs?
How about this? My (now X) girlfrind was a Psychiatrist, and spent some time on rotation at the Drug treatment centre of the ROH. In it she had her hands full of patients who were psychotic due to overuse of Pot. Now lets be clear here, this is not getting the munchies or feeling giddy, this is permenant uncurable brain damage affecting sensory perceptions and mood and social relations.
She was happy to admit this this extreme case was rare, and happened only through dramatic overuse, but she was also happy to list off the other medical effects of pot to me.
-Amotivational syndrome: (Dont want to get up and steal a car, but also dont want to get up and go to work- eventually occurs even when not high)
-Cancer of the throat and lungs: (Joints are unfiltered, meaning they are even more likely to be carcenogenic)
-COPD, Emphysema, Pneumonia: (similar to cigarettes, significant lung damage is common among Pot users.
Then there are the extreme cases of Dimensia, Psychosis and muscle disorders.
Most people who use pot in a limited manner will not suffer most of these ailments (except amotivational syndrome) but then again, a lot of pot smokers are hardly limited or reasonable about their intake.
Do not try and convince the world medical community that Pot is 'harmless'. At best you could say that in moderation it is not much more harmful than other legal (though damaging) drugs like tobacco.
I have been high a couple times, it was fun and I see the attraction, but to pretend that it truly is completelyharmless fun is just self-delusional.
She was happy to admit this this extreme case was rare, and happened only through dramatic overuse, but she was also happy to list off the other medical effects of pot to me.
-Amotivational syndrome: (Dont want to get up and steal a car, but also dont want to get up and go to work- eventually occurs even when not high)
-Cancer of the throat and lungs: (Joints are unfiltered, meaning they are even more likely to be carcenogenic)
-COPD, Emphysema, Pneumonia: (similar to cigarettes, significant lung damage is common among Pot users.
Then there are the extreme cases of Dimensia, Psychosis and muscle disorders.
Most people who use pot in a limited manner will not suffer most of these ailments (except amotivational syndrome) but then again, a lot of pot smokers are hardly limited or reasonable about their intake.
Do not try and convince the world medical community that Pot is 'harmless'. At best you could say that in moderation it is not much more harmful than other legal (though damaging) drugs like tobacco.
I have been high a couple times, it was fun and I see the attraction, but to pretend that it truly is completelyharmless fun is just self-delusional.
Is marijuana more damaging to the lungs?
Is it?
Does marijuana cause brain damage? (Besides EXTREME use, which can occur from a bottle of hairspray?)
Is it?
Actually it is said that the only medical problem marijuana poses IS bronchitis. And short term memory but thats only during the high stage. Don't smoke and study... duh.
And I never entirely said marijuana was harmless. But its less harmless than cigarettes and far less harmless than alcohol. And if it should be illegal because it is harmful than so should cigarettes, fast food, alcohol, crisco, butter, guns, knives, the internet, t.vs, power lines, hairspray, cars, power plants, fire places, and so on.
Many scientists would disagree with you. Maybe if you used an extreme amount.
You know, most people this may be true. I love working when I'm high. Time flies by, I have a great time, I don't usually mess up (I might forget to do something but I still get the job done 150%) and I concentrate extremely hard on what I'm doing. I have worked since I was 14, and I've been smoking longer than that. I held a job during my biggest smoking binge for 3 years in 3 different states. Anyone that can't hold down a job because they smoke are lazy themselves. Quit blaming the weed. Sure it has some "less than harmful" effects, but doesn't everything? Ever heard those prescription commercials? "Don't use if you are pregnant, smoking, if you drink, use drugs, are socially depressed, manic depressive, over the age of 35, consult your physician before use of such medication. Side affects include fatigue, shortness of breath, headaches, bloating, liver problems, sleeplisness, uncontrollable crying and depression."
So it being illegal because its harmful doesn't make sense to me. Isn't everything in this world harmful?
How about the resources that we would have from such a plant?
The medical purposes?
The turn from alcoholics to just smoking a joint after work and eating and falling asleep??
If this plant was legal it would be idolized by adolescents. It wouldn't be abused. All I want in this world is to come home after working 10 hours, sit down with my wife, smoke a joint together (JUST ONE!) and relax myself to sleep. Get up in the morning, don't smoke until I get home that night.
As for it funding terrorists, thats another way of the government trying to keep it illegal and off the streets. Truly if they were worried about it funding terrorism they'd legalize it and grow it for their own personal gain. How about using the funds for the pointless wars? Good idea...
Is it?
Does marijuana cause brain damage? (Besides EXTREME use, which can occur from a bottle of hairspray?)
Is it?
Actually it is said that the only medical problem marijuana poses IS bronchitis. And short term memory but thats only during the high stage. Don't smoke and study... duh.
And I never entirely said marijuana was harmless. But its less harmless than cigarettes and far less harmless than alcohol. And if it should be illegal because it is harmful than so should cigarettes, fast food, alcohol, crisco, butter, guns, knives, the internet, t.vs, power lines, hairspray, cars, power plants, fire places, and so on.
QUOTE
this is permenant uncurable brain damage affecting sensory perceptions and mood and social relations.
Many scientists would disagree with you. Maybe if you used an extreme amount.
QUOTE
-Amotivational syndrome: (Dont want to get up and steal a car, but also dont want to get up and go to work- eventually occurs even when not high)
You know, most people this may be true. I love working when I'm high. Time flies by, I have a great time, I don't usually mess up (I might forget to do something but I still get the job done 150%) and I concentrate extremely hard on what I'm doing. I have worked since I was 14, and I've been smoking longer than that. I held a job during my biggest smoking binge for 3 years in 3 different states. Anyone that can't hold down a job because they smoke are lazy themselves. Quit blaming the weed. Sure it has some "less than harmful" effects, but doesn't everything? Ever heard those prescription commercials? "Don't use if you are pregnant, smoking, if you drink, use drugs, are socially depressed, manic depressive, over the age of 35, consult your physician before use of such medication. Side affects include fatigue, shortness of breath, headaches, bloating, liver problems, sleeplisness, uncontrollable crying and depression."
So it being illegal because its harmful doesn't make sense to me. Isn't everything in this world harmful?
How about the resources that we would have from such a plant?
The medical purposes?
The turn from alcoholics to just smoking a joint after work and eating and falling asleep??
If this plant was legal it would be idolized by adolescents. It wouldn't be abused. All I want in this world is to come home after working 10 hours, sit down with my wife, smoke a joint together (JUST ONE!) and relax myself to sleep. Get up in the morning, don't smoke until I get home that night.
As for it funding terrorists, thats another way of the government trying to keep it illegal and off the streets. Truly if they were worried about it funding terrorism they'd legalize it and grow it for their own personal gain. How about using the funds for the pointless wars? Good idea...
Yes the things I stated that I have personally witnessed are all true with no exaggeration, but that is beside the point.
I do not think pot is worse than alcohol, only that it is for now legal. My whole point has been missed here and that is that I do not oppose legalizing pot for adults, but want to keep it out of the hands of children just as I want to keep alcohol and other drugs away from them until they are old enough to know the risks and make adult judgements.
It doesnt hurt me at all if you smoke pot, more power to you. I dont however buy into your glorification of drug use. I suppose that we will just have to agree to disagree on this debate
I do not think pot is worse than alcohol, only that it is for now legal. My whole point has been missed here and that is that I do not oppose legalizing pot for adults, but want to keep it out of the hands of children just as I want to keep alcohol and other drugs away from them until they are old enough to know the risks and make adult judgements.
It doesnt hurt me at all if you smoke pot, more power to you. I dont however buy into your glorification of drug use. I suppose that we will just have to agree to disagree on this debate
QUOTE(archer1958 @ Feb 25 2004, 05:53 AM)
Yes the things I stated that I have personally witnessed are all true with no exaggeration, but that is beside the point.
I do not think pot is worse than alcohol, only that it is for now legal. My whole point has been missed here and that is that I do not oppose legalizing pot for adults, but want to keep it out of the hands of children just as I want to keep alcohol and other drugs away from them until they are old enough to know the risks and make adult judgements.
It doesnt hurt me at all if you smoke pot, more power to you. I dont however buy into your glorification of drug use. I suppose that we will just have to agree to disagree on this debate
I do not think pot is worse than alcohol, only that it is for now legal. My whole point has been missed here and that is that I do not oppose legalizing pot for adults, but want to keep it out of the hands of children just as I want to keep alcohol and other drugs away from them until they are old enough to know the risks and make adult judgements.
It doesnt hurt me at all if you smoke pot, more power to you. I dont however buy into your glorification of drug use. I suppose that we will just have to agree to disagree on this debate
I have to agree with you on the glorification and children thing- of course one of the reasons that children "do" pot is because of the glorification- and it is glorified because it is illegal- and the drug war makes it even more of a cool thing.
So do we need a drug war? Didn't we learn our lesson with prohibition?
I never glorified it. I simply said the facts that people have twisted. Their would be many many benefits to legalizing marijuana.
-"Terrorists" Wouldn't make profit, the U.S would
-People underage wouldn't be able to purchase because it'd ACTUALLY be a controlled substance rather than un"controlled substance".
-The economy- Pot and porn is outstripping corn as Americas cash crops. 10% of our economy is dependent on marijuana
-The Eco System. Save a 100 year old tree, grow acres of hemp. Save fossil fuels, takes 1/3 less chemicals to make hemp than it does for cotton or wood.
-Taxes. Taxes... no need to say more
-Alcohol and cigarettes would be less used resulting in less deaths. From 92 to 99- 3.2 million tobacco deaths.
1.4 million alcohol deaths.
0 marijuana deaths.
-References by Change The Climate
And so many more. Less violence. More food being bought ;lol;
But the simple thing is Archer - Want to keep marijuana out of childrens hands? Let it be the governments problem, and not the dealers. A dealer would take money from a 5 year old as long as he got his money. Isn't right, but its the way they work. Though I have ran into some pretty cool dealers (at the time I thought they were crappy for asking me how old I was and refusing sale) that wouldn't sell marijuana to minors. Simply because it was there decision. I think if a cop arrested him and found that he didn't sell to kids, I think the cop would change his perspective on it just a little bit. Maybe change his weight for possession, which I have seen done.
Well I just got off work from working a graveyard, hope you all had a good night sleep. I am going to bed
-"Terrorists" Wouldn't make profit, the U.S would
-People underage wouldn't be able to purchase because it'd ACTUALLY be a controlled substance rather than un"controlled substance".
-The economy- Pot and porn is outstripping corn as Americas cash crops. 10% of our economy is dependent on marijuana
-The Eco System. Save a 100 year old tree, grow acres of hemp. Save fossil fuels, takes 1/3 less chemicals to make hemp than it does for cotton or wood.
-Taxes. Taxes... no need to say more
-Alcohol and cigarettes would be less used resulting in less deaths. From 92 to 99- 3.2 million tobacco deaths.
1.4 million alcohol deaths.
0 marijuana deaths.
-References by Change The Climate
And so many more. Less violence. More food being bought ;lol;
But the simple thing is Archer - Want to keep marijuana out of childrens hands? Let it be the governments problem, and not the dealers. A dealer would take money from a 5 year old as long as he got his money. Isn't right, but its the way they work. Though I have ran into some pretty cool dealers (at the time I thought they were crappy for asking me how old I was and refusing sale) that wouldn't sell marijuana to minors. Simply because it was there decision. I think if a cop arrested him and found that he didn't sell to kids, I think the cop would change his perspective on it just a little bit. Maybe change his weight for possession, which I have seen done.
Well I just got off work from working a graveyard, hope you all had a good night sleep. I am going to bed
Firstly, the facts about people suffering psychosis was not up for debate, it is not a questionable factoid pulled from some pro- or anti- pot webpage. It is my Girlfriend dealing with patents who have suffered braindamage from extended use of the drug. You can, if you choose feel free to pretend that is make-believe, and believe the pro-pot webpage you have read. Up to you, but do not try and pass this off as a harmless drug.
Amotivational syndrome is also not in question. The fact that it doesnt seem to affect you that way: great, good for you. We are not arguing should Pot be lagl for YOU, we are arguing should pot be legal for everyone.
It is more harmful than cigarettes, and alcohol, in particular is consumed in quantity and regularily.
Now I will admit, occasional, moderate use practically poses very few health risks. It is certainly not in the category of other drugs, which can cause damage even with occasional use. My problem is that of my old friends in High School, not one of them used it in moderation. Now, all of them that I am still in touch with are drop-outs, caring little for themselves or their surroundings. Perhaps they are happy that way, who knows.
Hey, I used pot. I inhaled. Several times. It was a lot of fun. It screwed up my lungs mind you (I have mild athsma) so I only ever did it a few times.
I agree it is not very harmful, but 'not very harmful' is not enough of an excuse to legalise it. You say it should be legal because smoking is legal.
That is a vacuous argument. If the world, free from additicion and the tobacco industry had a choice, tobacco would likey not be legal, largely due to the enormous number of people it kills each yer. Your saying "Its not much more harmful than this other harmful drug that kills thousands of people a year..." Is not a very srong argument for legalisation.
In canada, a decent middle of the road solution has been found. Possession under a certain amount is essentially legal: no charge, no arrest, no record. Posession with intent to distribute, or in huge quantities is still illegal.
Amotivational syndrome is also not in question. The fact that it doesnt seem to affect you that way: great, good for you. We are not arguing should Pot be lagl for YOU, we are arguing should pot be legal for everyone.
It is more harmful than cigarettes, and alcohol, in particular is consumed in quantity and regularily.
Now I will admit, occasional, moderate use practically poses very few health risks. It is certainly not in the category of other drugs, which can cause damage even with occasional use. My problem is that of my old friends in High School, not one of them used it in moderation. Now, all of them that I am still in touch with are drop-outs, caring little for themselves or their surroundings. Perhaps they are happy that way, who knows.
Hey, I used pot. I inhaled. Several times. It was a lot of fun. It screwed up my lungs mind you (I have mild athsma) so I only ever did it a few times.
I agree it is not very harmful, but 'not very harmful' is not enough of an excuse to legalise it. You say it should be legal because smoking is legal.
That is a vacuous argument. If the world, free from additicion and the tobacco industry had a choice, tobacco would likey not be legal, largely due to the enormous number of people it kills each yer. Your saying "Its not much more harmful than this other harmful drug that kills thousands of people a year..." Is not a very srong argument for legalisation.
In canada, a decent middle of the road solution has been found. Possession under a certain amount is essentially legal: no charge, no arrest, no record. Posession with intent to distribute, or in huge quantities is still illegal.
I have showed references for every claim I have made about this topic. Not pro-marijuana, but researched studies of marijuana. Names, dates, facts. Again, as I have told you: If you painted a room withuot proper ventilation you would kill more brain cells than you would from long usage of marijuana. Extreme use of hairspray can cause moderate brain damage. I'm not going to tell you that I think we should smoke a pound a day, I'm saying why not a joint after work? For the hard working Americans rather than let them relax with boozes. Again, how many people die from alcohol related illnesses each year? People affected directly and indirectly? Families, car accidents, violence, ect. How about tobacco? Smoking 20 cigarettes a day for nothing! Just for the pleasure of fulfilling your addicted self because you started young! Marijuana does not do that, at least people don't smoke it every hour. Or their whole lives. They can go months without it where as a cigarette you can't go 3 hours without picking through the ashtray. How many people die from this a year, first handed and second handed. And these are still legal?! ZERO deaths from marijuana. Read the studies yourself, ask U.S. Census. Check the records, you won't see 1!
I feel like I have repeated myself. Again, read it for yourself. SCIENTISTS are involved with it, its not a bunch of pot users, but SCIENTISTS do RESEARCH such plant.
Thank You.
I feel like I have repeated myself. Again, read it for yourself. SCIENTISTS are involved with it, its not a bunch of pot users, but SCIENTISTS do RESEARCH such plant.
Thank You.
QUOTE(Vermillion @ Feb 25 2004, 03:55 PM)
Firstly, the facts about people suffering psychosis was not up for debate, it is not a questionable factoid pulled from some pro- or anti- pot webpage. It is my Girlfriend dealing with patents who have suffered braindamage from extended use of the drug.
I talked to my unit psychologist about this today- and we could find no empirical study on this- what WE COULD find that it DID seem to be a precipitator to a psychotic break for those that had a pre-existing tendency towards psychosis- but that marijuani IN ITSELF did not make one psychotic- it just sent those that were possibly GOING to be psychotic anyway right over the edge.
BTW= I have worked in mental health for 17 years now, and HAVE NEVER, EVER seen someone become psychotic just from marijuana, there was ALWAYS an underlying illness.
So I've read multiple pages of you guys arguing about pot and I'm completely bored with it. It's off track on the topic. We have a large segment of the African-American community in jail for possessing small amounts of crack, we have millions spent in Columbia and other South/Central American countries fighting the drug lords.
The question is: do we need the war on drugs? Pot isn't the target, really. It's all the other stuff: PCP, cocaine, heroin, etc. that are wasting our tax dollars thru eradication and imprisonment. Is this the right way to attack the problem? You can't legalize these drugs and make drug use "better" somehow.
We're fighting the war by fighting with certain suppliers and -- not always related -- certain users. Instead of fighting with them, why aren't we trying something different? Instead of prison for drug users, how about institutes that help them detox and get back their lives? Instead of prison for drug runners, how about we try something else (like put them in charge of FedEx deliveries )? The way we're fighting this war now isn't working.
Focusing on pot isn't going to get to the root of the problem. Legalizing everything won't make it better either, since that's like making guns available to anyone who wants one.
The question is: do we need the war on drugs? Pot isn't the target, really. It's all the other stuff: PCP, cocaine, heroin, etc. that are wasting our tax dollars thru eradication and imprisonment. Is this the right way to attack the problem? You can't legalize these drugs and make drug use "better" somehow.
We're fighting the war by fighting with certain suppliers and -- not always related -- certain users. Instead of fighting with them, why aren't we trying something different? Instead of prison for drug users, how about institutes that help them detox and get back their lives? Instead of prison for drug runners, how about we try something else (like put them in charge of FedEx deliveries
)? The way we're fighting this war now isn't working. Focusing on pot isn't going to get to the root of the problem. Legalizing everything won't make it better either, since that's like making guns available to anyone who wants one.
I think maybe a better approach for such hard drugs that you mentioned should be put into a "cleaning program". Instead of locking them away with hard criminals. Legalize drugs so our government gets money for the drugs instead of other countries, and for the simple fact that it is our bodies, our very own body, and no one should tell us what we can and can't do with it. But if theres a problem than use that money from taxes on drugs to have programs to help the problem not create more.
Hi, Does anyone on here have a problem with Meth in your state? We have big problem with Meth and it's getting out of control.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4489307/
Thanks, Joe.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4489307/
Thanks, Joe.
When it comes to smokin pot and violenece, I think that the person who got violent while high, would have gotten violent over the same thing wether they were high or sober. Marijuana DOES NOT promote anger, it DOES NOT cause the urge to steal, and it DOES NOT make you think about using a harder drugs for a better high. People who use cocaine or harder drungs are often violent to begin with. I have known a few people that used harder drugs before they ever even tried marijuana. Two of those people actually smoked for the first time while around me, and sayd that it actually made them feel better than there usual drug. Im not saying that pot makes everything better, Im just saying that out of all the poeple i know who smoke pot, it seems to be an upper, instead of a downer like most illegal drugs.
When it comes to the war on drugs, i have to agree with most of the people on here that say we just need to legalize it and tear down the illegal market of drugs. Right now, it is way to easy for drug smuglers to do there work because there are too many of them for us to track. Every smugler we bring to justice, five more take his place. With a demand so high for drugs, you cannot put a dent in it, until you make the product easily accesible to american drug users. making it legal here, would work the same way it works for other countries. Its legal in other countries, so they can grow it, and make it. Since theres not a high demand for it in those countries and everyone can make it themselves, they bring it to our country. By making it legal here no one will have to go out of there way or do any illegal activities to obtain there drugs. Hence, making it pointless to ship drugs over here because the expense of shipping is now more than they would even be able to sell the drugs for.
When i comes to people who PROFANITY REMOVED about other poeple smoking pot or doing other drugs, its only because they A: cant handle it B: cant afford it or C: someone they knew was really stupid and hurt or killed himself, and because he was on drugs, all the blame goes onto the drug, and not onto his/her own stupidity. I just think its time for people to stop blaming other things for peoples mistakes in life. The guy you know is a homless bum because hes lazy, not because he smokes pot. Your friend or you dont have any money not because you/them NEED pot, or the drugs make you HAVE to buy them, but because YOU want to. Anyone can say NO, i cant buy any drugs this week, i need to pay rent. But its YOU who gives in and goes to buy it. STOP BLAMING EVERY PROBLEM IN LIFE ON DRUGS. ITS YOU. YOU ARE YOUR PROBLEM.
EDITED TO REMOVE PERSONAL INFORMATION - JAIME
When it comes to the war on drugs, i have to agree with most of the people on here that say we just need to legalize it and tear down the illegal market of drugs. Right now, it is way to easy for drug smuglers to do there work because there are too many of them for us to track. Every smugler we bring to justice, five more take his place. With a demand so high for drugs, you cannot put a dent in it, until you make the product easily accesible to american drug users. making it legal here, would work the same way it works for other countries. Its legal in other countries, so they can grow it, and make it. Since theres not a high demand for it in those countries and everyone can make it themselves, they bring it to our country. By making it legal here no one will have to go out of there way or do any illegal activities to obtain there drugs. Hence, making it pointless to ship drugs over here because the expense of shipping is now more than they would even be able to sell the drugs for.
When i comes to people who PROFANITY REMOVED about other poeple smoking pot or doing other drugs, its only because they A: cant handle it B: cant afford it or C: someone they knew was really stupid and hurt or killed himself, and because he was on drugs, all the blame goes onto the drug, and not onto his/her own stupidity. I just think its time for people to stop blaming other things for peoples mistakes in life. The guy you know is a homless bum because hes lazy, not because he smokes pot. Your friend or you dont have any money not because you/them NEED pot, or the drugs make you HAVE to buy them, but because YOU want to. Anyone can say NO, i cant buy any drugs this week, i need to pay rent. But its YOU who gives in and goes to buy it. STOP BLAMING EVERY PROBLEM IN LIFE ON DRUGS. ITS YOU. YOU ARE YOUR PROBLEM.
EDITED TO REMOVE PERSONAL INFORMATION - JAIME
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