Yea! I am so proud of my state today...rather than allow Bush to have us leaving our children behind our State House has elected to leave Bush and his program for education behind.

Here is an article.

To debate....

The Republican-controlled Virginia House of Delegates by an overwhelming majority (98 to 1) said that Bush's program .."represents the most sweeping intrusions into state and local control of education in the history of the United States,"
Do you agree with this?

Also How do you think this criticism will be dealt with?...after all it is not coming from the dems but rather from Bush's own party.

Do you think we will see other states follow VA's lead?

I would certainly hope so. No Child Left Behind is reviled by many teachers and parents here in Ohio and the fact that it is a huge unfunded mandate is unfairly placing a financial burden on states already strapped for cash.

My wife works as a liason for parents and educators at the elementary school our daughter attends and she has held meetings to provide families with documentation of what No Child Left Behind means. Everyone wants to raise the standards of education, but it comes with a huge price tag and represents a "top-down" dictate from the federal government as how to educate children, when there are "bottom up" programs on local and state levels that often work better.

"One size fits all" may work for hats and clothes, but it's a lousy way to try and educate kids.

Do you agree with this?

Yes, I agree that No Child Left Behind "represents the most sweeping intrusions into state and local control of education in the history of the United States", and am not surprised that a Republican controlled House is standing up for state's rights.

Although the word "intrusion" was used in this article to convey a negative meaning, that was the purpose of the NCLB act; to federally intrude on our state's public school systems by making them accountable so that no child was left behind.

Most Republicans are opposed to or believe extensive reform is needed for the Federally mandated Affirmative Action program. Should the Virginia Republican controlled House be able to opt out of that program too?

Also How do you think this criticism will be dealt with?...after all it is not coming from the dems but rather from Bush's own party.

In my opinion, if a state decides to opt out of a Federal program, they shouldn't receive federal funds.

bucket,

Do you know how much money Virginia receives from the Federal government and how much is received from State government? I don't know, that's why I am asking. It might be a good idea to look into that in light of the underfunding that seems to be prevalent in Virginia's education program.

I found an article from 2002 that indicated "local governments have financed the burden of the costs to meet standards of quality education that are defined by the state in the Virginia Standards of Quality. The Lt. Governor's proposal would amend the constitution so that both the state and local governments would be obligated to fund their portion of the cost from taxes or other available funds."

The article goes on to state:

Virginia ranks 13th in the nation in per capita personal income, but only 44th in state government spending for schools based on that income.

A lot more information about Virginia's own school funding can be found here:

Virginia Superintendents Rally to Defend Education Funding

Has the House stated they are unable or unwilling to implement NCLB? If unable, why?

I have no idea if Virginia is receiving funds for NCLB. Either way, I would be interested to know if Virginia passed the Constitutional Amendment requiring the state to also provide funds for the Virginia education program.

Very interesting topic. I am not well versed on the NCLB act. Perhaps this thread will help to educate me.

Edited for spelling.

Va Gov wants to increase education budget

Va Education Coalition cites serious shortfalls in state education funding

I had never heard of Kilgore's idea to ammend the constitution - but I think I would have to support that... But, from the article it did not sound like it was an actual ammendment the state legislature ever had for consideration.

Unfortunately, Virginia's budget debates are usually rife with party politics and not helped by an uninformed public. The state legislature enjoys cutting state taxes (like Gilmores no car tax fiasco) and then compensating for the decreased tax cuts by leaving the bill with the local governments (which is why everyone's local property taxes in Va went up the past two years). It is for this reason the original Standards of Learning proposal was such a hot topic - all of the local teachers asked where is the funding for the tests and required help afterwards going to come from? Fortunately, governor Warner (d) and some other fiscal conservatives in the legislature are trying to fix the problem that has grown since SOLs had their first test run in 1995. I fervently hope that the budget talks this year do not end in a stalemate (yet again) and the funding is passed (along with necessary state tax increases which will hopefully lead to decreased local taxes). I think the state funding short falls have become especially visible this year as the state is experiencing what its like to be on the other end of the stick (with national tax decreases and decreased fed funding leading to the states need to find a way to compensate).

I can't find any stats (online at least) giving the amount of federal education money Virginia got (two conflicting sources here and here). I'm sure the real numbers are out there, but it would take me too long to get them tonight - maybe someone else will have better luck.

In the end, I don't think it really matters. NCLB has some serious holes in it, that should have been addressed BEFORE passing. One of the most significant is the failure to address issues of special education student testing and english as a second language student testing. Some special ed students can exempt from testing, but most don't under NCLB. This alone could end up punishing those states and localities that have exceptional special ed programs - b/c a good program can draw more students to these schools - which in turn could punish the school overall as the students scores are still counted. It was interesting that Hickok stated "a surprising number of students" with special ed challenges are not being tested in Va which could then skew the states test results. This is indeed the point of many who oppose the NCLB - testing these students could also unfairly skew the results and the state could subsequently lose funding - esp considering there are 110 special ed students per 1000 - a significant population.

NCLB advocates seem to think that students who are in the special ed programs are there for their own amusement, or that they are just being unneccessarily coddled. This is not true. How can we expect to test students with IQ of below 40? There are some of these students who can barely hold a pencil, and do not understand the concept of a test. Yet NCLB wants to count these students scores the same as a "gifted" student who takes AP and IB courses!
Likewise, NCLB wants to count the score of a child who has only lived in an English speaking country for two months the same as one born and raised in the US for 15 years. I would accept that students learning English should not be given a free-pass forever. Their English abilities need to be assessed, and at some point their scores should count the same as any native English speaker... but to label a school as failing because they have a larger number of non-English speakers is ludicrous.

I think these holes in the one size fits all philosophy of the NCLB alone will prompt other states to take action against the program. I understand the concern for assuring that federally funded schools are living up to their end of the bargain and adequately teaching every child... but NCLB is not the answer. Logically, it would seem to make sure every school in every state is adequately teaching the children, there should be a national standard in place - some nationwide test. Yet, NCLB just asks each state to make the tests... so somehow we are supposed to compare the rigorous Va SOL (standards of learning) tests with tests given in another state that may or may not be made to the same standard.

It is really ridiculous. If the federal govt really wants to get involved in education (a role it has been expanding steadily for years) congress should be passing something that has a remote chance of actually bringing national accountability to the public schools.

(and, as a separate issue, the fact that Private schools have a worse record than public schools as far as accountability and passing the NCLB act rules should more than advocate against vouchers)


Just for fun, here are some stats on the Va education system

Heyas rebelkate my fellow Virginian Thanks for your input.



First Off I think Affirmative Action addresses the issue of civil rights. Not really seeing the connection of the two in regards to state rights and so I don't think either one has anything to with each other.
This is not just a Republican issue..this is an issue of state's rights. The states are responsible for education. This is not something that has only been occurring in VA either..this has been happening all over the US. States like their rights..and I like the right as a resident of the state of VA to hold my school board representatives accountable myself. How can I hold the US Department of Education accountable for what is happening to my local school? Why would I want to? How is this going to make things better?



Virginia receives approx. 5% of it's education spending from the federal gov. This is how it is for most states throughout the US.. most schools are primarily funded by state and local taxes. Virginia needs more state funding..that is apparent..and as rebelkate pointed out a pretty hot issue currently..from the stats I have seen..local taxes fund Virginia schools with an over 50% majority. That is really great for rich counties..but not so great for poorer ones. I can't imagine this is a problem only occurring in VA tho..as this is how I imagine most all of America's schools are being provided for.

I have several big issues with the NCLB..

Standardized testing.. I think there is more than enough proof out there that this is a very poor means of judgement of learning..and an even poorer guide for teaching.

The special ed and English as a second language approach. Rebelkate pretty much addressed this issue for me.

The greater access given to military recruitment under this plan is disturbing.

The fact that kids don't do well in school for a myriad of reasons..and with this plan we seem determined to continue to ignore this.

Violation of the separation of church and state.

Violation of state rights.

The fact that it is now being reported that many secondary schools rather than having to be "accountable" for any of their students being left behind are getting proactive about it and kicking students out of school.

The belief behind NCLB is that every parent cares about their child's performance and experience in school and that if the parent is unhappy they now have greater access to change. Yet one of the problems with a lot of our children's performance in school is because their parent's DON'T care. How is NCLB addressing this? It seems to me that if you have a bad school all those kids whose parents are involved with their learning will have a way out..but those children who do not have a parent campaigning for them will get left even farther behind the others.

The NCLB...coupled with the voucher system... this is just ridiculous. The claim behind NCLB is accountability..and then we have vouchers..exactly how is the fed gov. ensuring accountability in private education?