Whoops. I started this topic earlier, but forgot the question :-)

The Question is. How do we approach diplomacy and foreign Aid to ensure the best results for America? If Countries continue to oppose us, why should we not stop and and all aid we send to those countries?



We as a country give financial aid to at least half the countries on the planet to varying degrees. Yet we see all sorts of Anti-American demonstrations and we see countless countries who receive aid from us demand increased aid for them to allow us to do something. There are also those countries that receive aid from us that consistently oppose us publicly as well as at the UN.

It is time to get tough. Diplomacy requires strength and the reality that if you want something from us then you will have to give something back in return.

For example:

Turkey would not allow us to move into Iraq form their country during the war in Iraq. They later suggested that they would allow it if we dramatically increased our aid to them.

Our solution:

maintain current aid and go around Turkey.

The right solution:

Cancel all aid to Turkey, Permanently move all troops and facilities out of Turkey.


If they thought we would do that do you really think they would have opposed our troops moving into Iraq from Turkey?

Turkey receives huge sums from us just to allow ships to dock there. They receive tons of foreign aid from us in general and are somewhat dependant on that money.

Be a Real Diplomat, speak softly and carry a big stick. You don't want to play ball? Fine, we'll take our money to those that do. Stop thinking about what the rest of the world (that seems to hate us already) will say and do what is right for OUR country for once.

After Saddams capture Kadfi <sp?> stepped up and offered to allow inspectors into his country and pledged to ban all programs associated to WMD. Korea started discussing the nuclear issue again and other smaller counties began to re-open diplomatic issues with the US.

Hardball Diplomacy works!

Germany doesn't want to support us. Well, the cold war is over, do we really need that base there? No, but Germany needs the massive amounts of money that pours into their economy from the base as well as the personnel stationed there. TOO BAD close it and lets move the troops home or at least where they will be useful.

Stop re-drawing lines in the sand. Stop taking it on the chin from other countries. Start standing up for the US and our interests.

I think someone important once said that it is better to give a gift and not expect anything in return. For example the recent earthquake in Iran that has leveled the entire town of Bam. Thousands of people were left homeless on top of losing family members. Should we have said that we will not give aide to them because they are part of the Axis of Evil? Even though that was a worst case scenario were do we draw the line for the needy? The droughts effecting various nations, bad economies in latin America? Think about the amount of protests we would recieve if we didn't give out all of the aide that we currently do.

We should be drawing the line at where it helps the USA. All this money that floods out of the US to assist other countries.

There are only 2 reasons to give foreign aid. One, as with your example in Iraq is to assist in a crisis. This should be a one shot deal. Money to help rebuild and people to help with the rebuilding.

The other is to advance the interests of the USA. If we continue to give money Annually to a country like Turkey, just to have then oppose us when we needed them then we should stop the funding.

Financing our opposition is not only foolish it could be dangerous.

As for aid with staving countries. Has all the aid really helps Somalia? That country has become a wildland run by warlords who's power is based on thir control of the food coming in. Want to see them fall from power and allow the citizens to govern themselves? The stop shipping food. A hungry man with a hungry family will do what it takes to feed them, even overthrow a tyrant.

Sound harsh? It is, but it's logical. What do we get from a Somalia in it's current state? Nothing. If somalia ceased to exist tomorrow it would not change a thing in the US. What do we get when we try to help militarily while also trying to play political nice? We get dead soldiers.

What would we get if we stopped all aid to Turkey an pulled all troops out? Possibly a Turkish revolution, but more importantly the rest of the world would get a wake up call. Want our money? Then play the game.

I sort of agree woith you Sailor, but the situation is not as cut a dry as you might think.

First, I agree that foreign aid should be spent more on countries who need the money as opposed to those who could use the money. To ensure this, we should make aid and loans available to specific nations under specific terms we define. (i.e. money strictly for uses in medicine, agriculture and the like)




Actually, Germany does not necessarily need the money that a US military presence provides. But, will it turn it dwon? Hell no. I understand that most US overseas installations are actually leased by us from the government the base's soil is on. I think that this is the case for the base in Heidelberg, Germany, home to the US Army V Corps which has troops deployed in Iraq. Germany is a strategic point from which the US and NATO have used before. We stay there because it is convenient, because we've invested time and money there, and as every GI knows, Germany..... is a party country! They may be opposed to our policies, but they could really care less as long as Americans keep pouring US dollars into them. They dont need (or do I think recieve any actuall aid) from us.

Turkey is vital in the sense that we have airpower availlable in the region on very short notice. It would take a matter of minutes rather than hours to reach any point in the Middle East.

Now does that mean that we have to take their crap? No. The only problem is finding another site in that region which isn't exactly an optimistic prospect. Now I can't find contarcts or lease agreements of bases in either country (if someone can PM me cause Id like to know) but if they are leasing the land to us, its their perogative on how we use it. At the same time, I think that we should focus on placing our bases in countries who are either pro or moderately pro-American (or at the very least indifferent to our policies) and provide straegic value. I think that we were screwed by the Turks when they denied the US to mobilize the 4th ID on their border with Iraq. At the same time (and its a lil bit of hindsite) the US should of evaluated other options. Anyhow.....



I agree. We're giving aid to the Palestinians whos government is doing nothing to combat terrorism towards Israel who is one of our largest aid recipients. Israel then attacks Palestinian terrorists and at the same time kill women and children in the process. How can we promote a Mid-East Roadmap if we're fifnancing their war? Personally I think the US itself should end aid to the PA (we can provide smaller portions of it to the UN who then is responsible) and end military aid to Israel. Israel can handle themselves ok without any more weapons from us.



That is not always the case. President Robert Mugabe is recieving food aid from us and the UN and in some instances has troops blocking the starving populous from recieving it because Mugabe says it's 'tainted' in some fashion (something having to do with theway its grown i.e. genetically enhanced). The odds that Zimbabweans will overthrow him is slim to none. The same goes for Saddam, who abused the Oil for Food program, and kept warehouses filled with food from the Iraqi people. As I said earlier, we need to make sure our aid is being used as was intended. If they violate our terms of agreement, action in some form or another must be taken.

In conclusion, the United States must be more wary of where our money is going and for what purposes. Foreign aid should not be handed out willy-nilly. We need to re-evaluate our positions on these ideas.

Yes- and some of the most willy nilly has been by this administration, for all you "conservatives" LOL-

I am for surgical, directed aide for very specific purposes that gives us equal or more return in some tangible area- i.e.- the lasting good will and love of that country that the large part of the population wants to do business with us. Bosnia is very quickly turning that way, and the muslim population there loves us! LOL

I definately think we need to be much more careful, for sure!

As with Norfolk Virginia in the USA; Heidelberg, Germany is dependant on the money that poors into their local economy from the military personnel stationed there.

Pull out the troops and the town drys up.

When I was in the Navy I was stationed at Norfolk Virginia. Before I was stationed there the town had a real problem with the sailors. "Sailors and Dogs keep off the grass" signs where around and the sailors were looked down on at every turn.

A new Flag officer took charge of the base. He saw all of this and decided, since the locals didn't want the Navy there. We would keep the sailors away. He locked down the base for a month, not allowing any personnel off the base. Norfolk almost starved. Norfolk, like most military towns at home or abroad was a little town that grew massively thanks to the money that poured in from the individual soldiers and sailors alone.

Pull the troops out and relocate them to a better area for response to crisis in the Middle East and Asia. The bonus will be the economic hit Germany takes. Just our way of saying thank you for your support.

As to aid for Israel. Their aid is almost all in Loan Guarantees (Where the US government tell US banks that if the country taking the loans defaults, then the US government will pay the bill). To my knowledge, Israel is the only country that has NEVER defaulted on a guaranteed loan.

That being the case, the aid to that country actually helps our economy with the interest income earned by the banks making the loans.

Now, more harsh words. Aid stops to a country like Somalia because the leaders of the country are using it to control the people. If the people starve to death because they failed to fight for themselves, then that's just the way it is. Those in power will still be marginalized because they will no longer have anyone to rule.

Playing nice and bailing everyone out just creates a culture of dependance on the international level. Harsh lessons will need to be learned and hard times lived through If these countries are ever going to stand on their own two feet. Our aid, simple acts as a motorized wheelchair slowly atrophying the drive of the people.

The reason that Israel has never defaulted a loan to the US banks is because whenever it looks that they might be likely to, Congress has approved the conversion of the loan (that must be repaid) into a grant (that does not need to be repaid).

Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs

The US economy does not gain from this, as the money to repay the debt comes from the US govt.



It may be a shock , but most people in the world actually like America. That there is a vocal minority who does not isn't really a great excuse not to be charitable (especially in a country where so many of the population espouse Christian values...).

I can see that there is an argument for not supplying aid to a country where the government is suppressing its people & maybe stealing from that aid, but then you should ask yourselves WHY you are providing aid.

Is it to help the starving and powerless? In which case, do what you can (and think about applying political pressure to remove the dictator)

or

is it for your own gain?, in which case, the majority of your aid is probably worthless anyway. So don't give any, stay rich and watch people starving on your tv sets. - But be honest about it and don't try to tell everyone else that your morally superior to the rest of the world.

Well, that is a surprise to me. I will have to do more research on that. However, I can't take the source you provide at face value since their viewpoint on Israel is obviously not neutral.



As a member of the US Navy from 1987 - 1991 and a Member of the US Naval Reserves (recently deployed) from 2002 to the Present I do not agree. I have run into countless numbers of people in other countries who espoused hate towards me and my fellow sailors simply because we were Americans. Maybe they are a vocal Minority. Well, if the Majority does like us and does support us then they should show up and say so as well. Failing to do that leads us to believe they all hate us (as in the case of France). The fact that they fail to even attempt to prove otherwise is their problem, not mine. As far as I am concerned (based on personal experiences in France as well as their current opposition to the US) If France was invaded by another country like the Nazis of old, I'd say, let them have it and good riddance.

As for Christian Values, well for starters this is a Secular country. There are Christians, Jews, Islamics, Buddists, Wiccans, etc. Secondly, Where is the Christian Value in making people dependant on your "free" aid rather then working to care for themselves? Where is the Christian Value in supporting Warlords who abuse and murder others on a daily basis?

As for Christian Values. I am a Christian, and I know a lot of "Christians" who don't have a problem with throwing tomatos at people seeking abortions (I am pro-life but assault is assault). I know Christians who feel that murdering abortionists is ok. Love thy neighbor as thyself? Though shall not kill? What about all the Christians who oppose abortion but support the Death Penalty? I doubt Jesus would have supported the Death Penalty. I think the Christians need to start practicing what they preach a bit more regularly before they worry about others and try to impose their values on everyone else. (sorry, drifted off topic a bit, getting back to it right now :-) ).







Exactly. The majority of our aid to foreign countries is worthless. We don't win over the hearts and minds of the population and the leaders stab us in the back. Foreign aid IS for America's gain. If we gain nothing them we throw away millions of dollars that could better be spent to help our own country and people.

I can't see letting people starve in America while we provide Millions in food aid to violent warlords in paces like Somalia. There is no sense to it.

Now, private aid groups is another matter. Christian Childrens Fund and a host of others do good and selfless work. However, they only have to answer to those that donate to the fund, and people know what the money will be used for. People give to such funds to help those in need around the world without looking for a return. More power to them and Bravo.

However, Foreign Aid by the US government is given in the name of America. American's have a right to expect that this aid will benefit America. If it does not, the money would better be spent at home. Let the private concerns help the needy, while America helps America.