Ok i am mad about how the USA has been helping israel. Israelis keep getting themselves blowup and for no reasons, except because the palestinians want to "TAKE THE LAND BACK" I think america should look israels way and help them, before we attack iraq! Please tell me your thoughts and views...*** And admin this was the amount that i could possibley shrink it sorry if it is not small enough but it takes 1 second with dial up connection--

How mad about the way we've been helping Israel? Egad! The Israelis dont get blown up for no reason, they get blown up because they are repressing people. Put yourself in the Palestinians shoes. How would you like it if a forgien country decided to take over your house because it was a Jewish Holy land? And then kicked you out, and made you live in the gutter for the next 40 years? You have no army, you have no weapons. Your current home in the gutter gets bulldozed for no reason. You arent allowed to go into your old house because you're not a Jew, but Jews can come and go into your house as they wish.

We dont need to see the Israelis side, we need to see the Palestinian side. The amount of Palestinians killed is incredibly disporportionate to how many Israelis have died.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2002Nov25.html



Do you not think theres something wrong with that number? Almost TWO THOUSAND PALESTINIANS have died at the hands of the Israelis.

Of course there are going to be more Palestinians killed than Israelis. They are not equipped the same. They are waging war with suicide bombers asn the like not tanks and guns. Why can't Palestine see that? They cannot win this. The P. have said they will not be satisfied until they drive Israel into the sea, and they mean it. It isn't going to happen. As long as they have this attitude the deaths will not stop.

Your last post has a lot of holes in it. Let me demonstrate:



huh? So, what is the crime of the innocent civilians sitting down for passover? What is the crime of the people who do nothing but live their lives within the U.N. sancationed/designated Isreal border? The people who live there, are not guilty of the crimes of the gov't. To think otherwise is inhumane.



I probably wouldn' tlike it. But lets face the facts. Isreal is a state, Palestine is not. If the Palestinianes WANT a state of their own, they should start acting like it.



Maybe if Arafat would feed his people, instead of purchasing weapons, his people would be better off. The poverty can only SOMEWHAT be blamed on Isreal. The rest is because their leader cares more about destroying Isreal than anything else.



read the headlines please. Isreal troops destroyed the homes of suspected terrorists, in order to stop suicide bombing. It was calcualted and limited in scope. It was not a blanket policy to destroy ALL the homes of the palestinians.

If you want to look for high ground, at least Isreal trys to attack only those guilty of a certian crime against humanity. The Palestinians are not so concerned about who they hit. Isreal has been known to apologize for killing innocent civilians. Has Arafat done the same?



Baseless. This sounds an awful lot to me like a blanket statement coming from your resentment of Isreal, than anything else



Well, thats the problem though. Too many people can't see both sides. To only look at ONE side is biased. If you don't know BOTH sides of the issue, how can you decide which side to take?

D.P. and others...how should the Palestinians 'start acting' like they want peace? By not fighting back when these things happen?

I wanted to see what answers you all had that would stop the Israeli army from killing civilian Palestinians but it doesn't look like there are any, so here are my thoughts.

It's the strong against the weak no matter how you try to excuse it. The Palestinians were the ones enduring the the check points and the curfews for years and years along with treatment we would find unacceptable here. Isreali's do not need our money because obviously they have plenty as they are continuing to build settlements in disputed areas.

They use missiles on cars and 'accidentally' kill children for throwing stones. Their army is judge, jury, and executioner. They destroy food sent by the U.N. (see yesterdays news headlines for both stories.) They knock down homes with people inside. All of this we would find unacceptable.

So, please, don't act like one side is perfectly blameless. Israeli's are killing people in ways that would normally be considered war crimes. It can't last and it's the reason America is getting targeted as well. Following in Sharons footsteps is the stupidest thing we can do. Pretending the Palestinians aren't suffering will get us killed.

accidentally posted twice! ignore this

Today's headlines



Every day it's stories like this. How can we continue to ignore it and help it go on?

heres a URL to the people who were killed http://www.jafi.org.il/agenda/36-1c.jpgnote this was on one blast to a mall in jenean

I don't need to look, I saw it plastered over the news when it happened. It doesn't excuse what's happening now. The revenge has been had. When will they move on?

"huh? So, what is the crime of the innocent civilians sitting down for passover? What is the crime of the people who do nothing but live their lives within the U.N. sancationed/designated Isreal border? The people who live there, are not guilty of the crimes of the gov't. To think otherwise is inhumane. "

If they sit down in YOUR bedroom it is a crime. Israel is in brutal, illegal occupation of Palestinian territory. The Palestinians are fighting for their lives. The killing will stop when Israel withdraws to its lawful borders.

"I probably wouldn' tlike it. But lets face the facts. Israel is a state, Palestine is not. If the Palestinianes WANT a state of their own, they should start acting like it. "

It is amazing how the Israelis love to invent "facts". The Palestinian state is just as legitimate as the Israeli state. The problem is that Palestine is being brutally occupied by a lawless despotic power.

"Maybe if Arafat would feed his people, instead of purchasing weapons, his people would be better off. The poverty can only SOMEWHAT be blamed on Isreal. The rest is because their leader cares more about destroying Isreal than anything else."

Arafat has devoted his life to his people, but he is an old man, who shakes with palsy. He has been brutally intimidated by the Madman, Sharon. His home has been invaded by Sharon's thugs, he has been deprived of food and water. His people love him, as one loves a father, but they realize that they must continue their gallant struggle for freedom until they are finally, blessedly, free. You cannot "negotiate" with madmen like Sharon. The Palestinian kids know that. You throw rocks at Sharon.

"read the headlines please. Isreal troops destroyed the homes of suspected terrorists, in order to stop suicide bombing. It was calcualted and limited in scope. It was not a blanket policy to destroy ALL the homes of the Palestinians."

That is the usual cynical crap we have come to expect from the Israeli thugs: Tell me, general, why did you drop bombs on those farmers?
They are not farmers; they are terrorists.
And how do you know they are terrorists?
We're dropping bombs on them aren't we?

wow. I've debated this subject many times to many people. And no matter how anti-Isreal they seem, we all agreed that the state of Palestine does not exist. Until now that is.

Check out this link:

http://www.un.org/apps/sg/sgstats.asp?nid=66

an opening statement made by Kofi Anan (sec-gen of UN) on Sept 17, 2002, discussing the "Question of Palestine" In it, he talks about 3 steps for peace. Allow me to quote:

In the second phase, during 2003, our efforts should focus on the option of creating a Palestinian state with provisional borders and based on a new constitution, as a way station to a permanent status settlement.

If Palestine is already a state, why does the UN think it has to create one? Simply declaring independance isn't enough for statehood.



Unfortunately, it won't. Though it would be nice if thats all there was to it.

1) Many suicide bombers attack inside the UN sanctioned Isreali border. Where they are SUPPOSED to be. Shouldn't they be attacking the "illegal" settlements instead?

2) Arafat may or may not cease hating Isreal. But he is only PART of Isreal's overall concern. Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad have said, in public, several times, that they will stop when the jews are dead and Isreal has been destroyed. You see, groups like that care nothing about a palestinian state, or even if Isreal keeps within it's own borders or not. They are out for blood and the murder of jews everywhere. I'll find a link if requested.

--cheers

BTW, It's insulting to be called ANTI Isreal simply because you disagree with their recent methods...just as it's insulting to be called ANTI American when you don't believe in what we are doing now. I'm only ANTI stupid-policy...I don't hate any country.

This is absurd, of course, the Palestinian state NO LONGER exists, but to ignore the fact that it existed LONG BEFORE Israel is ignorant. Are you denying that there was ever a Palestinian state? This link will give you a little history on why Palestine and Israel are so angry:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/0,5860,720353,00.html


Also, no the killing will not stop as soon as Israel withdraws, but it is a step in the right direction. If Israel does nothing to provoke the Palestinians (which is hardly the case now) then the Palestinians have less reason to respond violently. There are 3.5 million people in the refugee camps, and not all of them are martyrs and suicide bombers. This situation is similar to England and N. Ireland, and its taken them 30 years (and the English finally subsiding) to get some sort of civility. It is up to Sharon to stop his incessant and indiscriminatory killing.

So if this palestinian state did exist at one time, why does the UN insist on having to create a new country? If the issue were that simple "he had it first" would apply here. But its not and it doesn't.

that was the land of palestine. But it was not an official country.

That link you provided was informative, thanks, but limited. It only went back to 1930. Muslims and Jews have lived on that land for THOUSANDS of years peacefully. In fact, it goes so far back, it's hard to tell who was there first because it's so old.

Here is a quote from that very link you provided:

1964. The PLO founded. After a debacle of the six day war, it reformed. Under the chairmanship of Yasser Arafat it claimed to be the sole representative of the Palestinian people. And it vowed to reclaim their land and destroy the state of Isreal

Which proves my point again. They don't really care about their land anymore. They are after the blood of the Jews, and the destruction of Isreal, whether they withdraw or not.

If there was a negotiated, enforced peace that required Israel to return to its pre1967 borders (UN resolution 242 which we signed) in exchange for full recognition by the new Palestinian State and the surrounding Arab states I think there is a good chance peace could come to that region. The terrorists require state sponsorship if they are going to continue to carry on their bombings to any serious degree. The enforced comprehensive peace would bring that to an end.

The Saudis have come up with a peace plan like the above I understand. A main obstacle is that the present Israeli government will not accept a complete withdrawal from the occupied territories and the settlements under ANY kind of peace and security terms. And the US so far seems disinclined to push the issue despite the fact that we are forking over 3 billion a year to Israel. The result is anger towards us in that region and throughout much of the Muslim world because of our policy of apparent support for Israeli intransigence.

So the occupation and the killing continues and the hate escalates with no end in sight.

Israel has only one thing driving it..........expansion.

Israel is Americas other army in the middle east and is achieving expansionism at the cost of those who get in the way and NO American lives lost.
America pours money into Israel.

Please feel free to ignore the 60+ UN resolutions concerning war crimes etc that are outstanding against Israel.
Please feel free to ignore the fact that America is ignoring these.
Please feel free to ignore the fact that America is going to war with a country who has about 10 outstanding UN resolutions against them...Iraq.

The only way to describe the above is.......HYPOCRITICAL.

America wants Iraq.
Because of the oil...........AND.........to allow Israeli expansionism, without
threat from Iraq, bringing American control throughout the middle east.

The VERY worst form of hypocracy.

Give them money and let them get killed to get what America wants.

Regards........Alan

Danya:

When i said "anti-Isreali" I wasn't refering to anyone in particular. Even I were, it was not anyone on this board. But if you wish, in the future, I will watch how I use "anti". I apologize if I offended you

Dingo:

Full recognition? heh, Isreal IS a sanctioned country. They should have no choice either way. If, by recognition, you meant ending the suicide bombings, then I would agree with you.

However, Arafat doesn't control Hamas, Hezbollah or Islamic Jihad. How do you propose we get them to end the violence? (assuming Isreal withdraws to pre-1967 boarders)

Alan

I could be wrong, but aren't you the one that keeps saying how America should just return to selling itself to other countries through our products, and our economy? I hope I'm wrong, because you would have contradicted yourself by saying we should enforce the Isreal UN resolutions instead of Iraq.

Seeing as how America is the only country with the gumption to stand up and MAKE the UN enforce it's own resolutions, I think America can pick and choose whichever resolutions it wants. Why isn't the UN doing anything about it's own "law"? Or, why isn't any other country doing anything about Isreal? Why should the US be responsible for enforcing ALL UN resolutions? We shouldn't. We shouldn't even have had to make the UN enforce it's resolution on Iraq, but we did because the UN is weak.

We picked the one we wanted and the one that was in our best interest. I doubt the US would stand in the way if any other country had the drive to enforce other UN resolutions that were in the best interest of that country. Even if we did, it wouldn't be any different than what other countries have been saying about us invading Iraq.

--cheers

I think the terrorist encourage WAR. Because everytime their are peace talks or a poll in israel the terrorist bomb soemthign!

I dont feel like looking anything up right now, but from what I remember Palestine was a British colony, and the Brits promised them freedom for their help in a war (I presume the war to be WW2, but I'm not sure). Well, instead of giving the Palestinians their freedom, they sent a bunch of Jews there instead and called it Israel. So, I guess Palestine was never a "real country", although it still means they had a right to the land.

But even if it wasnt (and I would consider a colony a pseudo-country. I wouldnt consider Vietnam to be part of France, even though they were colonized at one point), it doesnt change the fact that Israel has been rabble rousing (tee hee) since it came into existance. It invaded Palestine, Egypt, Lebanon...It cant keep within its SANCTIONED borders. Israel is clearly in the wrong. We shouldnt be helping Israel in anyway, and that ONE TINY country recieves the most forgien aid from the US. Why? Do the Israelis have people starving, or an AIDS epidemic?

Heres another link, listing the crimes Israel has done.
http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE151...IED+TERRITORIES

Now its my turn to show you the pals war crime

http://www.omdurman.org/warcrime.html

They pale in comparison. Again, look at how many Israelis have died and how many Palestinians. I am not condoning Palestine's actions in the least, I just happen to be more sympathetic to their cause.

It appears to be a question of America choosing what is right or wrong irrespective of how others see it.

American Administrations are fully aware of Israels continued illegal 'Kibbutzing' outside their country.
They are also fully aware of the Palastinians ongoing complaints regarding this, as is the UN.
The Hitler Government called it 'Liebenstraum'....territorial expansion for the German people. The allies called it invasion.
A rose by any other name......etc.

By allowing Israel, and actively supporting it to systematically destroy another races infrastructure is in itself a war crime by default.
Unfortunately America has NO choice. The pro Israeli lobby is too powerful.

Regards.....Alan

I enjoyed seeing this topic because I just had a discussion with a friend at work about the Israeli/Palestinian situation. Let me see CenturyMark, you state that Israel kicked out the Palestinians? This is untrue. Any Palestinian, any muslim in fact can live in the country of Israel, it has no restrictions based on religion or national origin. Now you may say, the Palestininans deserve their own country. Well in 1948 Israel fought a war to gain their country, and they beat the various Arab States allied against them. SO they won their land fair and square. ANd subsequent wars in 1956, 1967, 1973 all were Israeli victories, so until the Palestinians can beat Israel and take back "their" land, they are out of luck and get no sympathy from me. All the ARab countries around Israel are allied against them, the USA is the only friend in the WORLD that Israel has. I find it interesting that you don't suggest that Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia provide a home for the Palestinians. Maybe because you are totally biased against Israel. Maybe like you the Arab world provides lip service to the Palestinian cause but if it involves actual work or hard choices on their part, their resolve melts away like an Egyptian army against a few Israeli children.

One of the basic issues involved in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is the "right of return" of the Arabic citizens of Israel that were displaced by Israel through force and other methods during their expansion into Palestinian territories shortly after they proclaimed their independence in 1948. Israel has continually denied the right of return.

"Officially" Israel supports a policy of allowing people of any race or religion to live or work within its boundaries, but Arabic people living and working in Israel do not have equal rights.

Within the occupied territories, Israel continually imposes curfews on Arabic citizens for "security reasons" limiting their movements in and out of their homes, effecting their ability to live and work. Arabic citizens do not receive equal pay for equal work, and they are often treated badly by employers.



By international law acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible. It has been repeatedly recognized by the U.N. that the Palestinians should be granted their own sovereign state.



Why should Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia provide a home to the Palestinian people? The Palestinians resided in the area that is now called Israel when the League of Nations mandate was created after World War I. Under that mandate they were promised self-determination, which was granted to every other nation that was referred to in the mandate, and yet the Balfour Agreement was put into effect without Palestinian consent. They voiced their dissent to no avail. The Palestinian people have an inalienable right to remain in the lands that they have occupied for over two thousand years, and they should not be forced to leave their homes and reside in the surrrounding countries. Israel needs to cease its policy of expansionism and withdraw from the occupied territories, complying with U.N. resolution 242.

Do you ever wonder why? Its not because everyone hates Jews, its because the Israeli government is a repressive regime (might I add with WMD)



Im biased against Israel, the same way you're biased against Palestine. I am so sick of people telling me I'm biased, OF COURSE I AM (and at least I can admit it. And just to inform you, being biased doesnt mean you dont know both sides of the story). But that doesnt mean what I have to say isnt valid. Thank god Cyan already posted about all of this, but Ill reiterate, why should Jordan, Egypt ect. offer their lands to the Palestinians? Its like saying we should let in illegal Mexican immigrants because they are mostly Christian, and we are mostly Chrisitan.

Oh the old, "Israel is expansionist" refrain. The anti-Israel crowd, to include you, say Israel should return all lands claimed before the 1967 war to their "rightful" owners. You claim the Palestinians are the rightful owner, since they were there before 1948 when Israel defeated the Arab forces allied against it to win their indedepence. Using your logic, I can say, well the Jewish people have been there since the times of King David and King Solomon, all historical fact, so the land is theirs. SO I win that argument. As for the Claim that U.N. law says it is illegal to take territory by war. You are not well informed about the Arab-Israeli conflicts of the last 50 years. Israel was never the agressor, so it didn't take any land by force. It defeated the enemy, be it Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, occupied the land, and maintained an occupation force until neccessary to withdraw that force. In some cases the need still remains to occupy, due to terrorism. The only land that are Palestinian are in Gaza. You see the Palestinians are descendants of the Philistines, who lived in the area that is Gaza 2500-3000 years ago. Then as now they waged war against the Jewish people. ANd they were defeated and eventually absorbed into the population, until all Jews were kicked out of the Holy Land in 79 A.D. by the Romans. Did the Jews squat on the land and live like animals like the Palestinians. No they were flung to the wind in the Diaspora. They weathered the centuries of discrimiantion, the Holocaust, and rightfully reclaimed their stolen lands in 1948. The palestinians can work together with Israel or continue to terrorize them. Israel will continue to make the desert bloom, engage in democratic government, whether the Palestinians join them or not matters not to me, they obviously would rather spend their lives bombing malls, schools, old women, all cowardly acts by a cowardly, lazy, people.

They are doing a great job at making the desert bloom. It's been red with blood these last two years. What do you think will grow there after all of their killing? Hatred, I imagine.

1) I certainly don't condone Arabs being treated that way, inside of Isreal proper. However, an Isreali who's only crime is living in palestine stands to be murdered (suicide bombed)

Arabs might not be treated well, but at least they have their health.

2) If Isreal should give back land one in a war, then the US should give Texas back to the Mexicans where we got it. Because WE won that land fair and square in a war. Why should Isreal have to give back land if we don't?

Neither side can take the moral high road in this conflict, but at least Isreal has the decency to target specific people, or groups accused of a specific crime. Suicide bombers aren't so picky about their victims.

--cheers

D.P., I think Isreal is failing horribly if they are trying to focus their killing on the bad guys. Kids and old people are killed everyday. Not to mention peacekeepers and UN workers.

Yeah at least the Palestinians dont try to take some sort of moral high ground by pretending to target people. And agian, they have no choice.

Even if they arent entitled to the land (which they are), they feel it is their home. And if someone was doing that to your homeland, would you just sit there and take it?



Oh of course. Then its ok. A Palestinian whose only crime is being Palestinian will have their home bulldozed, or their apartment building targeted for missiles, or have the IDF shoot their children. At least they have their health though...BUT OH WAIT, not really. Since the IDF routinely blocks ambulances from aiding those who happen to Palestinains.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1125-01.htm
excerpt:




How ridiculous. At that time Jews and Muslims and Christians were all the same people. So they all have a right to that land, using this tired logic. And doesnt it say that the Jews will wander for eternity until the messiah shows up? Unless they all start believing Jesus Christ is their messiah, they deserve nothing. (Just kidding!)

And to inform anyone of the conflict, the UN website about it:
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

1. I am NOT anti-Israel. The League of Nations Mandate stated that the Palestinian people should have the right to choose their own destiny. Britain was supposed to act as the mandatory power during a transitional phase that would eventually lead to Palestinian independence. Instead, Britain created the Balfour Declaration, opening the doors for Jewish immigration into Palestine. This was illegal under the mandate. After a quarter of a century of strife, they realized that they had created a problem that they did not have the capacity to deal with, and they turned it over to the U.N. I support the U.N.'s decision to partition the territory into two countries.

2. Yes. I do agee that Israel should adhere to U.N. resolution 242 and return the land claimed before the 1967 war to its rightful owner.



No. My claim is that the Palestinians had rights to the land under the League of Nations Mandate. Within that territory, there were both Muslims and Jews living peacefully. They had a legal right to choose their own destiny, and the Balfour Declaration was illegal under the mandate. It is too late to reverse that decision, as there are a large number of Jewish immigrants that have made that territory their home. I do not think that Israel should be abolished, but I do think that the Palestinians have a right to their own soveriegn state. That is why I support U.N. resolution 242.



Israel had a clear policy of expansionism before the 1948 war, and those Arab countries waited until the Britons withdrew from the area, and then tried to reclaim Palastinian lands. Instead, they lost significantly more territory, but it does not change the fact that it is illegal to take territory by war. That goes for either side of the conflict. Israel should withdraw from the occupied territories per the U.N. resolution 242.

After the war, Israel did everything in its power to remove all of the remaining Arabs from Israeli land. This was the Palestinian Exodus, and this is where the "right of return" comes into play. Here are some quotes from Hertzl, the Zionist leader.



They also used military means to frighten and expel the Arab population. One of the most notorious examples is that of Deir Yassin where over 240 men, women, and children were massacred in a peaceful village.



I agree that both sides need to work together to find a solution. This includes both Israelis and Palestinians. Both sides of the conflict have committed and continue to commit heinous acts against one another. The cycle of retaliation does not improve the situation, and the deep rooted hatred grows on both sides of the issue.



I do not agree with the Palestinian policy of suicide bombing, but I would hardly call it cowardly. These are people who are desperate to obtain their independence, and they are using the means that they have at their disposal. It is no more cowardly than the Israeli policy of levelling Arab homes and destroying entire apartment complexes to obtain one terrorist. Both sides are committing acts that should be condemned.

I still argue with you, kimpossible, that the land was originally the Jewsish peoples. In the time frame I laid out, 3000 B.C, there were no Christians(Hence the B.C.), there were no Muslims(Muhammad was not born until the 7th century A.D.) But let's get beyond the semantics of who was first. Let's consider the fact that the Balfour Declaration did not consider the Palestinians. That was an English parliament creation. The Jewish peoples were not the originators of that policy. Was it inevitable that once a Jewish homeland was declared, Jews would start moving in and colonizing, yes, to suggest otherwise is very naive. Let's examine the relationship between Jews and Muslims and Christians and Muslims. In Israel today, Muslims are allowed to live and worship as they please. In America Muslims are allowed to worship and live as they please. But in Muslim countries are Jews and Christians allowed the same rights. Flat out no they are not. So the Muslim extremists, who though they may not represent the populace as a whole, nevertheless control these countries speak for the Muslim world. AS long as the Palestinian peoples are represented by Hamas, Hezbollah, through theses extremist government(Iran,Syria, Iraq, Yemen), they are illegitimate and thus should be dealt with as terrorists, not as a sovereign country.

An entire population is illegitimate because you dont like the govnerments of other Arab nations? Even more ridiculous. That justifies nothing.



Exactly.....Thats the point. Every other territory was granted freedom except the Palestinians, and their land got turned into a Jewish homeland. Do you not understand why they are angry and why they want their homeland back? Is that too difficult?

We agree on something Kimpossible.

Here are some of Israel laws:
1)Immigration to the Jewish state is restricted to Jews only. Some 2.5 million Palestinians who would like to return are not allowed to migrate to Israel. 3) economic control is based on race, religion, and ethnicity 4) The country’s land regime entails transfer of land ownership in one direction, from Arab to Jewish control, but never back again.

All of the Israeli apartheid laws and practices that discriminate against Arabs violate the letter of the Balfour Declaration and UN Partition Plan of 1947. Both documents made it perfectly clear that no law should be passed or practice be established which would violate the civil, political, economic and religious rights of non-Jewish communities of Palestine. Are you familiar with Israel Law of Return and Absentee Property Law ?

My faith in humanity is restored

Kimpossible, the point is that these evil governments, in Iran, Iraq, North Korea, represent the people. Just as our democratically elected government speaks for America as a whole. Hamas, Hezbollah they speak for Palestinians, because this is how they choose to deal with Israel. Israel is always the one who is expected to give up land. No, no more. Too much has been given up already, but it will never be enough. Not until there is no Israel. That is the goal of the PLO, of Arafat, the destruction of Israel. Therefore no diplomacy, no treaty, no accord will work. The only way Israel can deal with the representatives of Palestinians is exactly what they have been doing.

Too much has been given up already?! Like what....The land they stole from the Palestinians?

The Palestinians have given up too much (oh, like their freedom, their land, their religious holy land...)

And violence begets more violence, but its something you have obviously choose to ignore. Dealing with all of Palestine as if it were criminals will not solve anything. Unless they plan to wipe out the entire population of Palestine(which they very well be trying, looking at the death count numbers). Look at how England dealt with the IRA, its taken them 30 years and there's finally some semblence of peace. They didnt reach it by attacking N. Ireland, infact they had to stop attacking N. Ireland before the IRA stopped attacking them. Get it?

And you havent addressed the fact that Muslims are treated like dirt in Israel....Even though you've said they were treated "equally". Have you changed your thinking to "The Arabs deserve it"?

I do not agree that Israel stole any Palestinian land. Israel won in battle fair and square all their land. Let's see who deserves it more. The Palestinian people(I call them Philistines, their ancestors)have lived in the Holy Land since Christ's time. And when the JEWS were kicked out(Hmmm sounds familiar) by the Romans, they became the majority ethnicity there. Well you don't read any history about that area until 1918 when the Mandate was created. There is a reason, because the Palestinians treated the land like garbage, were lazy, no account stewards of the land. Suddenly, since 1948, when Jews took control, farms sprang from the Negev desert, modern cities were created(Haifa, Tel Aviv). Israel became a productive, democratic memeber of the world body. THere is not one good thing that came out of the Holy Land in the 2000 years the Palestinians lived there, while the Jewish people have done infinitely more in only 50 years. They deserve the land even if they hadn't won it by defeating the Arabs. AS for your assertion that Arabs are treated like dirt in Israel, even heard of the golden rule? THe Jews do unto the Arabs as the Arabs do unto the Jews. Get it?

This is completely subjective, because it relies upon your own personal idea of progress. Just because a culture doesn't center their population around huge cities, doesn't mean that the people are inherently lazy or that their culture should be disregarded. The Arabs have been cultivating that land for thousands of years.