Full Version: Fear of a Hispanic America?
On Foreign Policy.com there is a lengthy (12 pages) but quite readable article by Samuel P. Huntington entitled, "The Hispanic Challenge." In the article, Huntington, seems to be in fear that as the nation's racial balance shifts to a non-white majority there will be increased friction as Latinos will resist assimilation into the present culture and instead aggressively pursue a new Latinocentric culture.
The persistent inflow of Hispanic immigrants threatens to divide the United States into two peoples, two cultures, and two languages. Unlike past immigrant groups, Mexicans and other Latinos have not assimilated into mainstream U.S. culture, forming instead their own political and linguistic enclaves—from Los Angeles to Miami—and rejecting the Anglo-Protestant values that built the American dream. The United States ignores this challenge at its peril.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php..._id=2495&page=0
The results of a push by Hispanics for greater political, social and cultural hegemony could result in a push-back by threaten whites, Huntington writes.
A plausible reaction to the demographic changes underway in the United States could be the rise of an anti-Hispanic, anti-black, and anti-immigrant movement composed largely of white, working- and middle-class males, protesting their job losses to immigrants and foreign countries, the perversion of their culture, and the displacement of their language. Such a movement can be labeled “white nativism.”
“Cultured, intelligent, and often possessing impressive degrees from some of America's premier colleges and universities, this new breed of white racial advocate is a far cry from the populist politicians and hooded Klansmen of the Old South,” writes Carol Swain in her 2002 book, The New White Nationalism in America. These new white nationalists do not advocate white racial supremacy but believe in racial self-preservation and affirm that culture is a product of race. They contend that the shifting U.S. demographics foretell the replacement of white culture by black or brown cultures that are intellectually and morally inferior.
Changes in the U.S. racial balance underlie these concerns. Non-Hispanic whites dropped from 75.6 percent of the population in 1990 to 69.1 percent in 2000. In California—as in Hawaii, New Mexico, and the District of Columbia—non-Hispanic whites are now a minority. Demographers predict that, by 2040, non-Hispanic whites could be a minority of all Americans. Moreover, for several decades, interest groups and government elites have promoted racial preferences and affirmative action, which favor blacks and nonwhite immigrants. Meanwhile, pro-globalization policies have shifted jobs outside the United States, aggravated income inequality, and promoted declining real wages for working-class Americans.
Actual and perceived losses in power and status by any social, ethnic, racial, or economic group almost always produce efforts to reverse those losses. In 1961, the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina was 43 percent Serb and 26 percent Muslim. In 1991, it was 31 percent Serb and 44 percent Muslim. The Serbs reacted with ethnic cleansing. In 1990, the population of California was 57 percent non-Hispanic white and 26 percent Hispanic. By 2040, it is predicted to be 31 percent non-Hispanic white and 48 percent Hispanic.
The chance that California whites will react like Bosnian Serbs is about zero. The chance that they will not react at all is also about zero. Indeed, they already have reacted by approving initiatives against benefits for illegal immigrants, affirmative action, and bilingual education, as well as by the movement of whites out of the state. As more Hispanics become citizens and politically active, white groups are likely to look for other ways of protecting themselves.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php...id=2495&page=11
I do not personally share Mr. Huntington's gloomy fear of a Hispanic America. However, the winds of change are blowing and as Latinos have displaced blacks as the "majority minority" there is no doubt that they are making vast strides in shaping America into a place more accepting of and acceptable for people of Hispanic descent. Huntington though makes it seem as though America is under siege through its porous borders by a swarm of invaders bent on slowly altering and reshaping the body politic to a form more to its liking.
Alarmist or awareness? That's a tough call.
It is not necessary to read Huntington's entire article to comment in this thread, though as background information it might be fruitful to at least browse it.
For debate: 1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
A Caveat: Threads in the Race Debate forum get closed with depressing frequency because they frequently decline into race-baiting, stereotyping, name-calling, inflammatory rhetoric and knee-jerk reactions to ideas, facts and concepts that may make posters uncomfortable. I plead guilty myself to on occasion tripping into all these pitfalls. For whatever the life of this thread, let's TRY to keep it cool, civil and appealing to the heart and mind and not just how best to push each other's buttons.
The persistent inflow of Hispanic immigrants threatens to divide the United States into two peoples, two cultures, and two languages. Unlike past immigrant groups, Mexicans and other Latinos have not assimilated into mainstream U.S. culture, forming instead their own political and linguistic enclaves—from Los Angeles to Miami—and rejecting the Anglo-Protestant values that built the American dream. The United States ignores this challenge at its peril.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php..._id=2495&page=0
The results of a push by Hispanics for greater political, social and cultural hegemony could result in a push-back by threaten whites, Huntington writes.
A plausible reaction to the demographic changes underway in the United States could be the rise of an anti-Hispanic, anti-black, and anti-immigrant movement composed largely of white, working- and middle-class males, protesting their job losses to immigrants and foreign countries, the perversion of their culture, and the displacement of their language. Such a movement can be labeled “white nativism.”
“Cultured, intelligent, and often possessing impressive degrees from some of America's premier colleges and universities, this new breed of white racial advocate is a far cry from the populist politicians and hooded Klansmen of the Old South,” writes Carol Swain in her 2002 book, The New White Nationalism in America. These new white nationalists do not advocate white racial supremacy but believe in racial self-preservation and affirm that culture is a product of race. They contend that the shifting U.S. demographics foretell the replacement of white culture by black or brown cultures that are intellectually and morally inferior.
Changes in the U.S. racial balance underlie these concerns. Non-Hispanic whites dropped from 75.6 percent of the population in 1990 to 69.1 percent in 2000. In California—as in Hawaii, New Mexico, and the District of Columbia—non-Hispanic whites are now a minority. Demographers predict that, by 2040, non-Hispanic whites could be a minority of all Americans. Moreover, for several decades, interest groups and government elites have promoted racial preferences and affirmative action, which favor blacks and nonwhite immigrants. Meanwhile, pro-globalization policies have shifted jobs outside the United States, aggravated income inequality, and promoted declining real wages for working-class Americans.
Actual and perceived losses in power and status by any social, ethnic, racial, or economic group almost always produce efforts to reverse those losses. In 1961, the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina was 43 percent Serb and 26 percent Muslim. In 1991, it was 31 percent Serb and 44 percent Muslim. The Serbs reacted with ethnic cleansing. In 1990, the population of California was 57 percent non-Hispanic white and 26 percent Hispanic. By 2040, it is predicted to be 31 percent non-Hispanic white and 48 percent Hispanic.
The chance that California whites will react like Bosnian Serbs is about zero. The chance that they will not react at all is also about zero. Indeed, they already have reacted by approving initiatives against benefits for illegal immigrants, affirmative action, and bilingual education, as well as by the movement of whites out of the state. As more Hispanics become citizens and politically active, white groups are likely to look for other ways of protecting themselves.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php...id=2495&page=11
I do not personally share Mr. Huntington's gloomy fear of a Hispanic America. However, the winds of change are blowing and as Latinos have displaced blacks as the "majority minority" there is no doubt that they are making vast strides in shaping America into a place more accepting of and acceptable for people of Hispanic descent. Huntington though makes it seem as though America is under siege through its porous borders by a swarm of invaders bent on slowly altering and reshaping the body politic to a form more to its liking.
Alarmist or awareness? That's a tough call.
It is not necessary to read Huntington's entire article to comment in this thread, though as background information it might be fruitful to at least browse it.
For debate: 1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
A Caveat: Threads in the Race Debate forum get closed with depressing frequency because they frequently decline into race-baiting, stereotyping, name-calling, inflammatory rhetoric and knee-jerk reactions to ideas, facts and concepts that may make posters uncomfortable. I plead guilty myself to on occasion tripping into all these pitfalls. For whatever the life of this thread, let's TRY to keep it cool, civil and appealing to the heart and mind and not just how best to push each other's buttons.
Seen from the outside, I'm not sure it will make a difference, since the one thing that all the races in the USA share, which appears to account for a huge amount of similarity, is the "-American" hyphenate.
It may not seem like it close up, but the Hispanic, black, Irish, Italian, Native, and all the other "******-Americans" are more American than they are anything else.
Unfortunately, being acutely conscious of racial background seems to be one of the things that makes someone American, in perhaps the same way that acute class consciousness is observed to be a unifying trait of the British. You (and we) do it as naturally as breathing, and hardly ever notice that we constantly make negative (and positive) assumptions about everyone they we come across based on their skin colour (or class).
Of course, their is class consciousness (and prejudice) in the US just as there is race consciousness (and prejudice) in the UK. In their extent, though, we are almost mirror images of one another.
It may not seem like it close up, but the Hispanic, black, Irish, Italian, Native, and all the other "******-Americans" are more American than they are anything else.
Unfortunately, being acutely conscious of racial background seems to be one of the things that makes someone American, in perhaps the same way that acute class consciousness is observed to be a unifying trait of the British. You (and we) do it as naturally as breathing, and hardly ever notice that we constantly make negative (and positive) assumptions about everyone they we come across based on their skin colour (or class).
Of course, their is class consciousness (and prejudice) in the US just as there is race consciousness (and prejudice) in the UK. In their extent, though, we are almost mirror images of one another.
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1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
I think they are if we say they are. One of the amazing things about this country is that we perpetuate our own fears, instead of checking the validity of them.
As my name suggests, I live in Georgia, the state with the fastest growing Hispanic population in America, and yet the race debate hear is still between whites and blacks.
Is it because we refuse to acknowledge the Hispanic retaliation army brewing down the street? No. It is because, despite what others may want to believe, they are Americans too (except for the illegal ones, of course).
The Hispanics "refuse" to assimilate just like you could argue every other race does. We have Asian communities, black organizations... in fact, the only organization I am aware of that the uNiversity of Georgia does not have IS a hispanic organization.
We can bite into this hysteria - and knowing us we probably will - but the fact is, the only difference between now and ten years ago is that they are finally getting respect (hey, who would have thought 10 years ago that the President would speak directly with the Hispanics in an eleciton year?)
Now here's an interesting topic, and one with an infinite number of parallels worldwide(:cough:France:cough:). I think there are quite a lot of people who feel threatened by immigration and immigrants. I don't see how Hispanics are actively avoiding assimilation, I seems to me the main problem is that the system is failing to equip Hispanic children with necessary English skills.
I would have no problem with a cultural shift due to immigration, frankly, who cares? I don't see the point of trying to "Defend" traditional American culture. As long as the right values stay in place race and language really don't matter.
Yet there are calls for a national language, ends to bilingual education etc. It seems highly irrational to me...
As for Hispanics vs. Whites rather Blacks vs. Whites, I think we will have to get much farther removed from the Civil Rights Movement to see anything of that depth...
It's the history that keep African-Americans the most prominent minorities when it comes to controversy.
I would have no problem with a cultural shift due to immigration, frankly, who cares? I don't see the point of trying to "Defend" traditional American culture. As long as the right values stay in place race and language really don't matter.
Yet there are calls for a national language, ends to bilingual education etc. It seems highly irrational to me...
As for Hispanics vs. Whites rather Blacks vs. Whites, I think we will have to get much farther removed from the Civil Rights Movement to see anything of that depth...
It's the history that keep African-Americans the most prominent minorities when it comes to controversy.
I think it is great if the hispanics take over America= it will finally mean the end of white conservative america LOL
REally- I think a gigantic shift to the left in America will be helpful, not harmful.
REally- I think a gigantic shift to the left in America will be helpful, not harmful.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Mar 28 2004, 01:33 PM)
I think it is great if the hispanics take over America= it will finally mean the end of white conservative america LOL
REally- I think a gigantic shift to the left in America will be helpful, not harmful.
REally- I think a gigantic shift to the left in America will be helpful, not harmful.
Of course, I see no reason to expect that from Hispanic Immigration.
1. It seems to me Hispanics have a range of ideological perspectives, just like the group of Americans we've got now....
2. After doing a bit of research on Mexican politics recently (finally, a research paper were I get to pick the topic
) Mexican government does not exactly inspire trust in big government...
I think this report should be a wake up call to Bush and all congressmen who support Bush's "immigration policy"
When Bill O Reilly mentioned this report by the Census Bureau a couple nights ago, he even shook his head in disappointment at the Bush Administration. And you know when THAT happens, you KNOW it must be serious
When Bill O Reilly mentioned this report by the Census Bureau a couple nights ago, he even shook his head in disappointment at the Bush Administration. And you know when THAT happens, you KNOW it must be serious
I dont see how this should be a wake-up call. It's just much ado about nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if the report was co-written by Pat Buchanan himself. The "we were here first" people have been around since the dawn of America.
The Northern Europeans were worried about the Southern Europeans. The whites were worried about the Asians. At one point even the Christians were worried about the Jews!
Let's stop this whole debauchle (<--I am spelling that right, right?) and for once actually INVITE in a culture.
Edited to add: It kind of makes me wonder: would we be this up in arms if there were an influx of British immigrants?
The Northern Europeans were worried about the Southern Europeans. The whites were worried about the Asians. At one point even the Christians were worried about the Jews!
Let's stop this whole debauchle (<--I am spelling that right, right?) and for once actually INVITE in a culture.
Edited to add: It kind of makes me wonder: would we be this up in arms if there were an influx of British immigrants?
Sorry, nighttimer, if this apprears to be button-pushing, but racism by any other name still reeks - and that's exactly what this sounds like to me:
Saying in one breath that "these new white nationalists do not advocate white racial supremacy" and in the next that they feel "black or brown cultures... are intellectually and morally inferior" sounds very like "the populist politicians and hooded Klansmen of the Old South".
Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
I suppose that depends on how one defines "assimilation". If it means expanding the dominant white European culture which has demanded assimilation, I hope so. If it means a more catholic approach to religious ideals and the rejection of the fundamentalist lunacy which has coopted "Anglo-Protestant values" (destroying the "American dream" in the process), I hope so. If it means questioning English as the "national language", I hope so. If it means the evolution of a more pan-American culture, I hope so.
But if it means radically altering or rejecting our core political values, our respect for individual rights, our vital role as one of the most egalitarian societies ever evolved, I somehow doubt it.
As Huntington himself puts it before he starts getting hysterical:
I don't see a rise in the proportion of Hispanic citizens as more radically altering the make-up of America than did German immigration or the civil rights movement. And if the superficial character of our country is modified a bit - so what? More of our children might become bilingual? Oh, my God - it's the end of the world!!
To me, it doesn't matter whether it's called "liberty" or "libertad", "justice" or "justicia", "separation of church and state" or "separación de iglesia y estado", "representative" or "representativo", "laissez-faire" or "laissez-faire" - the concepts remain unchanged.
Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
For those who prefer to see the world through racist eyes, possibly. They are, one would like to hope, dying out. But one important factor is being ignored here. Our Latino citizens do assimilate - and in the most fundamental way. As I mentioned the first time this came up here:
Then again, I'm 37.5% Celtic Caucasoid, 25% Nordic Caucasoid, 25% Brünn Caucasoid, and 12.5% Amerindian, and I converted from Protestantism to Catholicism, seriously lapsed on that one, took up Buddhism, and now pretty much consider myself a Deist - like Franklin and Jefferson - so maybe I have less regard for the "Anglo-Protestant values" which Huntington feels are so vital to defining what America should be.
QUOTE
"Cultured, intelligent, and often possessing impressive degrees from some of America's premier colleges and universities, this new breed of white racial advocate is a far cry from the populist politicians and hooded Klansmen of the Old South," writes Carol Swain in her 2002 book, The New White Nationalism in America. These new white nationalists do not advocate white racial supremacy but believe in racial self-preservation and affirm that culture is a product of race. They contend that the shifting U.S. demographics foretell the replacement of white culture by black or brown cultures that are intellectually and morally inferior.
Saying in one breath that "these new white nationalists do not advocate white racial supremacy" and in the next that they feel "black or brown cultures... are intellectually and morally inferior" sounds very like "the populist politicians and hooded Klansmen of the Old South".
Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
I suppose that depends on how one defines "assimilation". If it means expanding the dominant white European culture which has demanded assimilation, I hope so. If it means a more catholic approach to religious ideals and the rejection of the fundamentalist lunacy which has coopted "Anglo-Protestant values" (destroying the "American dream" in the process), I hope so. If it means questioning English as the "national language", I hope so. If it means the evolution of a more pan-American culture, I hope so.
But if it means radically altering or rejecting our core political values, our respect for individual rights, our vital role as one of the most egalitarian societies ever evolved, I somehow doubt it.
As Huntington himself puts it before he starts getting hysterical:
QUOTE
By the latter years of the 19th century, however, the ethnic component had been broadened to include Germans, Irish, and Scandinavians, and the United States' religious identity was being redefined more broadly from Protestant to Christian. With World War II and the assimilation of large numbers of southern and eastern European immigrants and their offspring into U.S. society, ethnicity virtually disappeared as a defining component of national identity. So did race, following the achievements of the civil rights movement and the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. Americans now see and endorse their country as multiethnic and multiracial.
I don't see a rise in the proportion of Hispanic citizens as more radically altering the make-up of America than did German immigration or the civil rights movement. And if the superficial character of our country is modified a bit - so what? More of our children might become bilingual? Oh, my God - it's the end of the world!!
To me, it doesn't matter whether it's called "liberty" or "libertad", "justice" or "justicia", "separation of church and state" or "separación de iglesia y estado", "representative" or "representativo", "laissez-faire" or "laissez-faire" - the concepts remain unchanged.
Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
For those who prefer to see the world through racist eyes, possibly. They are, one would like to hope, dying out. But one important factor is being ignored here. Our Latino citizens do assimilate - and in the most fundamental way. As I mentioned the first time this came up here:
QUOTE
Not only are two-thirds of racial minorities in this country Latino, but two-thirds of interracial marriages and births are also Hispanic. The more the races mix in this country, the less racial identity will be determined by politics, the judiciary or even public policy. The fact that the 2000 census was the first to allow citizens to choose more than one race is an indicator of this trend.
It is estimated that by the end of the century, 37% of African-Americans will claim mixed ancestry - and about 35% of whites. More than 40% of Asian-Americans will be mixed and over 70% of Latinos. I mentioned in a thread here several weeks ago that there would be no end to racial tension in this country until the majority population was a coffee-colored racial mix with slightly asiatic eyes. With a tradition of interracial mingling that goes back to the Spanish colonization of Central and South America, I feel that the burgeoning Latino population in this country will hasten that end. And I see that as a very positive thing.
It is estimated that by the end of the century, 37% of African-Americans will claim mixed ancestry - and about 35% of whites. More than 40% of Asian-Americans will be mixed and over 70% of Latinos. I mentioned in a thread here several weeks ago that there would be no end to racial tension in this country until the majority population was a coffee-colored racial mix with slightly asiatic eyes. With a tradition of interracial mingling that goes back to the Spanish colonization of Central and South America, I feel that the burgeoning Latino population in this country will hasten that end. And I see that as a very positive thing.
Then again, I'm 37.5% Celtic Caucasoid, 25% Nordic Caucasoid, 25% Brünn Caucasoid, and 12.5% Amerindian, and I converted from Protestantism to Catholicism, seriously lapsed on that one, took up Buddhism, and now pretty much consider myself a Deist - like Franklin and Jefferson - so maybe I have less regard for the "Anglo-Protestant values" which Huntington feels are so vital to defining what America should be.
1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
My contribution to this topic is specific to - language.
Resisting assimilation would imply that it (assimilation) is being forced upon the Spanish-speaking community. That simply isn’t the case. Government agencies and small/big businesses all have assimilated to the Spanish-speaking community. You can’t telephone many of these places without being given the option of hearing the menu in Spanish. Television programs are interpreted into Spanish. In Miami, Tampa, and many places in California and Texas, you don’t have to speak English to live a very productive life.
I see a rise in the proportion of Hispanic citizens as more radically altering the make-up of America than did German immigration.
We (and by that I mean ALL of us, white, black, Asian, native, immigrant) are assimilating to the Latino community instead of Latinos assimilating to their new country, specifically when it comes to language.
My personal belief is that ALL immigrants should be required to at least learn English as their second language.
My contribution to this topic is specific to - language.
Resisting assimilation would imply that it (assimilation) is being forced upon the Spanish-speaking community. That simply isn’t the case. Government agencies and small/big businesses all have assimilated to the Spanish-speaking community. You can’t telephone many of these places without being given the option of hearing the menu in Spanish. Television programs are interpreted into Spanish. In Miami, Tampa, and many places in California and Texas, you don’t have to speak English to live a very productive life.
I see a rise in the proportion of Hispanic citizens as more radically altering the make-up of America than did German immigration.
We (and by that I mean ALL of us, white, black, Asian, native, immigrant) are assimilating to the Latino community instead of Latinos assimilating to their new country, specifically when it comes to language.My personal belief is that ALL immigrants should be required to at least learn English as their second language.
I disagree on the language issue- well, obliquely anyway- I think it should be a requirement that school age children speak three languages before graduating primary school.
English supremecy in America only hurts America, doesn't help.
English supremecy in America only hurts America, doesn't help.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Mar 28 2004, 03:34 PM)
I disagree on the language issue- well, obliquely anyway- I think it should be a requirement that school age children speak three languages before graduating primary school.
English supremecy in America only hurts America, doesn't help.
English supremecy in America only hurts America, doesn't help.
CR,
I'd disagree with this, at least in part. For the purpose of national unity, and more importantly, to insure the success of immigrants and their children in a "English" dominated society there needs to be a national "language of preference", hopefully English. Besides English has become the default international language of choice anyway.
As to teaching 3 languages, sure it's a great idea but I'd be happy if our educational system could teach our youth to read and write even English well which it is failing at from everything I see and read.
Dos o tres idiomas son muy buenos en mi opinion! Pero, yo tengo dos solamente!
1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)? I think there is a certain element of the Hispanic population which resists assimilation, because it's easy. In certain parts of Miami, for example, a family can live and work in a virtually English-free environment. People who choose to live that way are at a tremendous disadvantage if they hope to advance above the poverty level. My husband has Cuban relatives who have lived in Miami for a couple of decades and still don't speak functional English. I don't believe that Americans should be expected to speak Spanish to compensate for the ignorant. Expecting the population at large to learn a couple of languages by the end of primary school is a nice thought, but not practical reality. Learning a language requires some thorough immersion. Otherwise, it's like learning to type without a keyboard. Besides, L'inglese e la lingua internazionale.
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America? I doubt it. As Wertz pointed out with the statistics, Hispanics are mixing very thoroughly with the population, genetically speaking. We also don't have the terrible history of Jim Crow laws, segregation, and slavery for Latinos.
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America? I doubt it. As Wertz pointed out with the statistics, Hispanics are mixing very thoroughly with the population, genetically speaking. We also don't have the terrible history of Jim Crow laws, segregation, and slavery for Latinos.
Iway ootay amway ilingualbay, Englishway andway Igpay Atinlay.
I do think the burden should be on immigrants to adapt to our language and culture, not vice-versa. I have met very few hispanics, born in the United States, who did not speak English. Children quickly adapt to changes, often to their parent's chagrin.
I don't think that someone need to speak English to be a citizen. I think they need to take such things as driver's tests in English, that is the language the road signs are in and I don't think we should spend a great deal of money with bilingual roadsigns.
In the past immigrants have contributed greatly to our nation, despite little efforts to accommodate them. Tax burdens placed on native-born citizens to benefit immigrants, and in particular illegal immigrants, should lead to resentment.
I do think the burden should be on immigrants to adapt to our language and culture, not vice-versa. I have met very few hispanics, born in the United States, who did not speak English. Children quickly adapt to changes, often to their parent's chagrin.
I don't think that someone need to speak English to be a citizen. I think they need to take such things as driver's tests in English, that is the language the road signs are in and I don't think we should spend a great deal of money with bilingual roadsigns.
In the past immigrants have contributed greatly to our nation, despite little efforts to accommodate them. Tax burdens placed on native-born citizens to benefit immigrants, and in particular illegal immigrants, should lead to resentment.
QUOTE
I'd disagree with this, at least in part. For the purpose of national unity, and more importantly, to insure the success of immigrants and their children in a "English" dominated society there needs to be a national "language of preference", hopefully English. Besides English has become the default international language of choice anyway.
Learning other languages does not hurt our American community. In today's world starting out, it is best if you know more than English. I guess you could say this would be the only fear if there was a fear of a growing Hispanic ommunity - the upperhand of being bilingual.
In most other established countries being bilingual has become the standard. Maybe we need to leave our shell of "America - the one and only" and try to understand that there is more than one language and nation on this planet
1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
First off GREAT topic Nighttimer. I had planned on asking this very thing to go along with my What is America theme.
Question 1: Nope. Those who are recent immigrants here will NEVER fully assimilate. That requires being taught American ways early. The english language is very difficult, although Navajo seems tougher. There are so many shades of meaning to words. Just think of how many words mean something completely different depending on how they are pronounced. The strength of American english is that it is voracious and also somewhat rapacious. So many words and phrases from other languages and cultures are absorbed so rapidly here that they seem to have been created here. The children of immigrants will adopt english simply because they can literally make it their own.
As for our culture. What is American culture? We hear a lot about the Judeo Christian thing lately but it just doesn't fit. Many of the things that we hold dear are the very things that draw immigrants and if one takes an honest look around at other cultures our values are shared. Hard work, honesty, acting honorably. Respect for family and even strong faith, Regardless of spiritual flavor.
Latinos come here for a chance. A chance to live their lives as they see fit. As we all do. That they may stay among themselves and surround themselves with things that comfort them is no different than any midwestern town. Really what is the difference at all except for what we all prefer as the "furnishings" for our comfort zones. How many Irish and Italian sectors still exist even in this "day and age".
Baptists tend to congregate with other baptists and Mormons with Mormons.
How many people claim that the south is just so much more friendly and the north is mean. Again the only difference is personal taste. I prefer the northern bluntness. If I don't like you I just won't pretend I do. I won't talk behind your back I'll say it to your face. I hate wasting moments of my life because they could be better used elsewhere. However the ignorance and bigot levels are about the same.
Latinos who move here and raise their children often do not teach them spanish or much about their culture. Some do and some don't. I know and have known a great many who know less spanish than I do.
I have some friends who are second and third generation Americans and they are always asked "where they are from"! How ignorant can some people be?
If there is sometimes hesitation to assimilate into our "culture" some of the blame lies with us as Amercians.
Question 2:
There will be many White Americans who will raise this particular banner and rally behind it. In the end they will go the way of those who raised it against the Germans, Irish, Italians, Jews, etc.
The children of immigrants quickly absorb and adopt American culture. Each wave of immigrants to this country has the same effect a spring rain has. There is the moment of panic and everyone rushes for cover alarmed they may get wet. It covers everything and drowns out the cacophony for a few moments and there is quiet. Everything looks new and fresh like it has just been laid out. One could almost start all over. Your attention is drawn away from the troubles of the moment. Each wave of newcomers does this for Americans. The new blood is full of the promise of their freedom and we are reminded that those ideas they pursue. Their visions of a perfect life are not meant to mirror our own. America was Never meant to be a stale one size fits all replica. It is the constant chaos and clash of ideals that create what is truly American. A little of this and a little of that. All put together in a fashion that doesn't always seem logical or even tasteful sometimes. yet somehow it works. That which rises from the muddle was somehow just meant to be. I have always thought that this is why so much of our culture is adopted so voraciously by others around the world. They recognize themselves in it.
America is a chorus of many voices. One that cannot be squelched or even successfully dimmed by those who have such a lack of faith in the ideals of this nation that they live in constant fear of their neighbors and always preach that "we should GET them before they GET US!" or that the sky is falling and we are being run off. Every single "White Judeo christian" could disappear tomorrow and Amercia wouldn't notice.
The truly great thing about this country is that one's cultural identity is lost. All the past can be cast aside and one can find one's own path without having to bear the cross of a culture's history. Instead of following traditions just because they are traditions, or because they were good enough for "My Daddy and his Daddy" one can choose ones own morality. My mistakes are mine. Those of my father are his and his alone. While someone can appreciate their cultural history if they wish they are not constrained by it. Walk your own path and make your way.
That is exactly what every immigrant who comes here does.
The only difference is that they RECOGNIZE the opportunity, the very FREEDOM we have here. Some may disparage the rags to riches belief but immigrants to this country do this every day and do it in the fashion that was once so proudly held as American. Hard Work!
There are countless stories of success about those who came here with nothing more than a dream and built those dreams from the ground up.
The importance of these people to "Native born" Americans is that it should serve to remind us of how this country was built and that anything is possible to those who are willing to work hard and sacrifice to get there.
Achieving Dreams: Priceless
P.s anyone remember the Cuban who turned his pickup truck into a paddle boat and "Drove" here? THAT is the kind of immigrant we should welcome with open arms and they sent him BACK!
Ida thought Texas would have demanded to make him a citizen. That was pure COOL and Class!
P.s.s I just read this and do I sound like I'm running for President or what?
I was almost actually compelled to refer to a shining city on a hill.
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
First off GREAT topic Nighttimer. I had planned on asking this very thing to go along with my What is America theme.
Question 1: Nope. Those who are recent immigrants here will NEVER fully assimilate. That requires being taught American ways early. The english language is very difficult, although Navajo seems tougher. There are so many shades of meaning to words. Just think of how many words mean something completely different depending on how they are pronounced. The strength of American english is that it is voracious and also somewhat rapacious. So many words and phrases from other languages and cultures are absorbed so rapidly here that they seem to have been created here. The children of immigrants will adopt english simply because they can literally make it their own.
As for our culture. What is American culture? We hear a lot about the Judeo Christian thing lately but it just doesn't fit. Many of the things that we hold dear are the very things that draw immigrants and if one takes an honest look around at other cultures our values are shared. Hard work, honesty, acting honorably. Respect for family and even strong faith, Regardless of spiritual flavor.
Latinos come here for a chance. A chance to live their lives as they see fit. As we all do. That they may stay among themselves and surround themselves with things that comfort them is no different than any midwestern town. Really what is the difference at all except for what we all prefer as the "furnishings" for our comfort zones. How many Irish and Italian sectors still exist even in this "day and age".
Baptists tend to congregate with other baptists and Mormons with Mormons.
How many people claim that the south is just so much more friendly and the north is mean. Again the only difference is personal taste. I prefer the northern bluntness. If I don't like you I just won't pretend I do. I won't talk behind your back I'll say it to your face. I hate wasting moments of my life because they could be better used elsewhere. However the ignorance and bigot levels are about the same.
Latinos who move here and raise their children often do not teach them spanish or much about their culture. Some do and some don't. I know and have known a great many who know less spanish than I do.
I have some friends who are second and third generation Americans and they are always asked "where they are from"! How ignorant can some people be?
If there is sometimes hesitation to assimilate into our "culture" some of the blame lies with us as Amercians.
Question 2:
There will be many White Americans who will raise this particular banner and rally behind it. In the end they will go the way of those who raised it against the Germans, Irish, Italians, Jews, etc.
The children of immigrants quickly absorb and adopt American culture. Each wave of immigrants to this country has the same effect a spring rain has. There is the moment of panic and everyone rushes for cover alarmed they may get wet. It covers everything and drowns out the cacophony for a few moments and there is quiet. Everything looks new and fresh like it has just been laid out. One could almost start all over. Your attention is drawn away from the troubles of the moment. Each wave of newcomers does this for Americans. The new blood is full of the promise of their freedom and we are reminded that those ideas they pursue. Their visions of a perfect life are not meant to mirror our own. America was Never meant to be a stale one size fits all replica. It is the constant chaos and clash of ideals that create what is truly American. A little of this and a little of that. All put together in a fashion that doesn't always seem logical or even tasteful sometimes. yet somehow it works. That which rises from the muddle was somehow just meant to be. I have always thought that this is why so much of our culture is adopted so voraciously by others around the world. They recognize themselves in it.
America is a chorus of many voices. One that cannot be squelched or even successfully dimmed by those who have such a lack of faith in the ideals of this nation that they live in constant fear of their neighbors and always preach that "we should GET them before they GET US!" or that the sky is falling and we are being run off. Every single "White Judeo christian" could disappear tomorrow and Amercia wouldn't notice.
The truly great thing about this country is that one's cultural identity is lost. All the past can be cast aside and one can find one's own path without having to bear the cross of a culture's history. Instead of following traditions just because they are traditions, or because they were good enough for "My Daddy and his Daddy" one can choose ones own morality. My mistakes are mine. Those of my father are his and his alone. While someone can appreciate their cultural history if they wish they are not constrained by it. Walk your own path and make your way.
That is exactly what every immigrant who comes here does.
The only difference is that they RECOGNIZE the opportunity, the very FREEDOM we have here. Some may disparage the rags to riches belief but immigrants to this country do this every day and do it in the fashion that was once so proudly held as American. Hard Work!
There are countless stories of success about those who came here with nothing more than a dream and built those dreams from the ground up.
The importance of these people to "Native born" Americans is that it should serve to remind us of how this country was built and that anything is possible to those who are willing to work hard and sacrifice to get there.
Achieving Dreams: Priceless
P.s anyone remember the Cuban who turned his pickup truck into a paddle boat and "Drove" here? THAT is the kind of immigrant we should welcome with open arms and they sent him BACK!
Ida thought Texas would have demanded to make him a citizen. That was pure COOL and Class!P.s.s I just read this and do I sound like I'm running for President or what?
I was almost actually compelled to refer to a shining city on a hill.
Oh, for Pete's sake! They said the same things about the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, and virtually every other national/ethnic group that reached these shores.
And the country didn't go belly-up. Imagine that.
It is natural for the older folks to resist assimilation (we all have our comfort zones), but their kids adapt pretty well.
I do not feel anxious about the influx of Hispanic people so much as I feel anxious about the outflux (if that isn't a word, it should be) of American jobs to countries around the world while those countries exercise their own styles of protectionism.
Bring on the people; just make sure there are jobs for everyone willing and able to work (including us second, third and whatever generation American citizens). And I don't mean the jobs where you say, "Do you want fries with that?"
Maybe in some regions there will be a Hispanic/"Caucasian" (if you will) schism. But I don't think it will approach the black/white schisms that have existed, simply because slavery has been prohibited here since the 1860's and Jim Crow laws and poll taxes are illegal.
And the country didn't go belly-up. Imagine that.
It is natural for the older folks to resist assimilation (we all have our comfort zones), but their kids adapt pretty well.
I do not feel anxious about the influx of Hispanic people so much as I feel anxious about the outflux (if that isn't a word, it should be) of American jobs to countries around the world while those countries exercise their own styles of protectionism.
Bring on the people; just make sure there are jobs for everyone willing and able to work (including us second, third and whatever generation American citizens). And I don't mean the jobs where you say, "Do you want fries with that?"
Maybe in some regions there will be a Hispanic/"Caucasian" (if you will) schism. But I don't think it will approach the black/white schisms that have existed, simply because slavery has been prohibited here since the 1860's and Jim Crow laws and poll taxes are illegal.
I lived in Miami during the 60's when Cuban refugee's sought refuge in the US. They were the best and the brightest who had lost everything, even their degrees were not recognized in the US . My childhood friends expected me to learn Spanish, although I never did. In a relatively short period of time White, Black, Jewish, Puerto Rican, Indian and Mexicans became minorities struggling for their niche or moving. One of the issues I have with globalization is artificial social engineering really crushes diversity.
We had imported the upper class of Cuba. Natives of the area were prepared to help good people, but they weren't prepared to compete. It didn't occur to anyone that the upper class will gravitate to a position of dominance. I suspect the issue is much larger than perserving White historic culture, but perserving diversity period. There has always been a war between cultures in the US, but I think we have done it better than anyone else. Plenty of countries have been overrun with foreign populations but few have used the experience to grow economically.
It concerns me more that we import the poor from South American countries and the upper class from Asian countries. Uni-culture tyrannies with no middle class. Asian men make 25% more than the average White man in the US, but the incomes of Blacks and Hispanics have dropped. The rationale is Asian culture revere's education, has higher moral values and a 'bigger brain'. What if education is a form of tyranny, another form of controlling the masses. I believe we should be most concerned about the loss of our middle class and the general polarization of races.
We had imported the upper class of Cuba. Natives of the area were prepared to help good people, but they weren't prepared to compete. It didn't occur to anyone that the upper class will gravitate to a position of dominance. I suspect the issue is much larger than perserving White historic culture, but perserving diversity period. There has always been a war between cultures in the US, but I think we have done it better than anyone else. Plenty of countries have been overrun with foreign populations but few have used the experience to grow economically.
It concerns me more that we import the poor from South American countries and the upper class from Asian countries. Uni-culture tyrannies with no middle class. Asian men make 25% more than the average White man in the US, but the incomes of Blacks and Hispanics have dropped. The rationale is Asian culture revere's education, has higher moral values and a 'bigger brain'. What if education is a form of tyranny, another form of controlling the masses. I believe we should be most concerned about the loss of our middle class and the general polarization of races.
I've worked with many hispanics, mostly El Salvadorians. My experience with them is that they are generous, friendly, and very hard-working. I've never been sure of their legality, but I know most of them are renting apartments as bunk houses, usually 3-4 men to a bedroom, and each generally works two jobs. They send most of their money back to El Salvador, or are saving up to bring their wives here.
They generally do live in 'hispanic' neighborhoods...at least until they make enough money to buy a house of their own.
Almost all of them speak some English, most of them with children insist that their children will speak english as a first language. Those who have good english skills generally get jobs as foremen of work crews, vs. jobs as laborers.
I have no problem with fairly open immigration, as long as it's not to come here and use our welfare system. I do have a problem with crossing our border illegally, though I reserve the right to disagree with the current immigration laws. If I have to pay taxes on my income, so should everyone else in the country.
Most incoming workers will displace the bottom rung of workers today...the ones I've met do not have the mentality collect welfare and not work.
They generally do live in 'hispanic' neighborhoods...at least until they make enough money to buy a house of their own.
Almost all of them speak some English, most of them with children insist that their children will speak english as a first language. Those who have good english skills generally get jobs as foremen of work crews, vs. jobs as laborers.
I have no problem with fairly open immigration, as long as it's not to come here and use our welfare system. I do have a problem with crossing our border illegally, though I reserve the right to disagree with the current immigration laws. If I have to pay taxes on my income, so should everyone else in the country.
Most incoming workers will displace the bottom rung of workers today...the ones I've met do not have the mentality collect welfare and not work.
Timely topic, nighttimer. Where I live, the predominate non-'white' population is brazilian. Although not spanish-speaking, they share with hispanics the typical feature of 'mestizo' appearance. Although portuguese is structurally very similar to spanish, of course, there is an odd but well-recognized tendency for native-potuguese speakers to have an easier time learning english than for native spanish speakers. Class background in either case appears to be a major factor as well.
For question one, I agree it is largely an issue of language. The phenomenon of 'spanglish' would seem to inhibit full assimilation, as does the african american vernacular for some blacks, and the non-standard english dialects of some white populations. A consistant feature of individuals who want to be main-stream, to be 'assimilated' - in my experience - is that they speak standard american english at will regardless of their native dialect.
For question two, I think that as the physical appearance of many hispanics probably mirrors that of the typical future american, whites aren't sure what to think. It's a little unsettling yet intrigueing at the same time. I havn't spoken about it enough with black aquaintances to know what the general sentiment may be from their point of view.
For question one, I agree it is largely an issue of language. The phenomenon of 'spanglish' would seem to inhibit full assimilation, as does the african american vernacular for some blacks, and the non-standard english dialects of some white populations. A consistant feature of individuals who want to be main-stream, to be 'assimilated' - in my experience - is that they speak standard american english at will regardless of their native dialect.
For question two, I think that as the physical appearance of many hispanics probably mirrors that of the typical future american, whites aren't sure what to think. It's a little unsettling yet intrigueing at the same time. I havn't spoken about it enough with black aquaintances to know what the general sentiment may be from their point of view.
NOOOOO you mean white people wont be the majority forever!!!! NOOOOO
( YES!!!! wOOOOOOOOT alright!!!!)
what are we going to do with out the white people to out number us??
granted I don't want to learn spanish any time soon.... well actualy I kinda failed that class..... but still I believe that given some time they will be as american as anyone else. this coming from a person who is part of 2.4% of the U.S. pop.
hmmmm maybe we would be the majority in the the future
...... but that might take awhile
( YES!!!! wOOOOOOOOT
alright!!!!) what are we going to do with out the white people to out number us??
granted I don't want to learn spanish any time soon.... well actualy I kinda failed that class..... but still I believe that given some time they will be as american as anyone else. this coming from a person who is part of 2.4% of the U.S. pop.
hmmmm maybe we would be the majority in the the future
...... but that might take awhile
QUOTE
1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
Definitely an explosive issue, especially considering I live in Southern California (often referred to sarcastically as Norte Mexico). My answer is Yes, definitely. There is a very distinct split between the Latino culture and the rest of California, but I'm sure there are similar ethno-centric differences between the various Latino cultures (Mexico, Central America) too.
QUOTE
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
It's ironic that this subject is posted here a few days after a columnist for the LA Times (surname Lopez, draw your own conclusions) wrote a column entitled "Way Too Many People in Paradise." Read the whole column here: LA Times Columnists-Steve Lopez Among some of the issues facing California if immigration from Mexico is allowed to continue unchecked:
- Overwhelmed Schools (If CA population projections hold true, a new school will have to be built every other day)
- Overwhelmed hospitals, highways, transit systems
- Declining wages and job loss
And by the way, Los Angeles County (a huge area encompassing over 4,000 square miles) is majority Hispanic (44.6%), whites are at 31.1% of the population and falling.
QUOTE
Overwhelmed Schools (If CA population projections hold true, a new school will have to be built every other day)
Overwhelmed hospitals, highways, transit systems
Declining wages and job loss
Yes immigration is putting a strain on our infrastructures.Overwhelmed hospitals, highways, transit systems
Declining wages and job loss
I think the imigration should be slowed not stoped, and we should allow immigrants to be naturalized. The influx of people is or will be a strain on the economy.
We, also, need to find adiquit solutions for these problems.
1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
Not to the degree suggested. As Pig-Pen points out, what segregation is happening is because its convenient, not because of some great anti-assimilation movement. It should also be pointed out that such enthic 'enclaves' have been a part of Americana from the beginning.
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
No, I don't think so. As the article points out, the shift has already occurred in some states, and I haven't heard of any rioting in the streets. There has been some friction (note the various laws California has tried to pass on this issue), but I don't see any signs of a great division. A related, but perhaps more interesting question would be:
How will becoming a minority affect the viewpoints of white America? (I think this is quite relevant to the debate topics, because the answers to this will certainly affect the divisions being discussed).
Not to the degree suggested. As Pig-Pen points out, what segregation is happening is because its convenient, not because of some great anti-assimilation movement. It should also be pointed out that such enthic 'enclaves' have been a part of Americana from the beginning.
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
No, I don't think so. As the article points out, the shift has already occurred in some states, and I haven't heard of any rioting in the streets. There has been some friction (note the various laws California has tried to pass on this issue), but I don't see any signs of a great division. A related, but perhaps more interesting question would be:
How will becoming a minority affect the viewpoints of white America? (I think this is quite relevant to the debate topics, because the answers to this will certainly affect the divisions being discussed).
1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
--- Yes and no. I live in South Florida, so it is a topic that is dear to my heart. I think that the younger generation (those born here) fully embrace both cultures and are bilingual easily.
It's more difficult with the older ones. And it can be more difficult when they choose to live in isolated, Spanish-language only (or mostly) enclaves. I do understand why they wish to do so, of course they're more comfortable in their own language and culture. But without learning English (and some don't or won't), they don't assimiliate into our culture.
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
--- Possibly. One real flashpoint is the language problem. I find that I resent it when I go to Miami and find that many have a great deal of difficulty communicating with me. I should NOT have to learn Spanish in my own country. Optional yes, mandatory no. It affects jobs down in Miami-Dade county too, one MUST be bilingual, putting Americans at a disadvantage.
And I'll be honest - I resent ones who won't try. I am descended from ancestors who spoke many languages and they all learned English, hard as it was. I don't want to see problems like Canada had with Quebec.
As for those who might think I'm the typical lazy "Ugly American", I speak a bit of French and German and if I ever lived in another country, I would be busting my tail to learn the language of the country, not demanding that mine be accomodated. When I do go to Europe, I at least try to have some language ability, out of common courtesy.
So it's quite possible this will be an issue. I love the immigration (legal only, but that is a whole other topic), they bring a rich vibrant culture (my development is about half-Hispanic). I just wish that one didn't have to feel as if one were in a foreign country when I go down to Miami-Dade county.
--- Yes and no. I live in South Florida, so it is a topic that is dear to my heart. I think that the younger generation (those born here) fully embrace both cultures and are bilingual easily.
It's more difficult with the older ones. And it can be more difficult when they choose to live in isolated, Spanish-language only (or mostly) enclaves. I do understand why they wish to do so, of course they're more comfortable in their own language and culture. But without learning English (and some don't or won't), they don't assimiliate into our culture.
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
--- Possibly. One real flashpoint is the language problem. I find that I resent it when I go to Miami and find that many have a great deal of difficulty communicating with me. I should NOT have to learn Spanish in my own country. Optional yes, mandatory no. It affects jobs down in Miami-Dade county too, one MUST be bilingual, putting Americans at a disadvantage.
And I'll be honest - I resent ones who won't try. I am descended from ancestors who spoke many languages and they all learned English, hard as it was. I don't want to see problems like Canada had with Quebec.
As for those who might think I'm the typical lazy "Ugly American", I speak a bit of French and German and if I ever lived in another country, I would be busting my tail to learn the language of the country, not demanding that mine be accomodated. When I do go to Europe, I at least try to have some language ability, out of common courtesy.
So it's quite possible this will be an issue. I love the immigration (legal only, but that is a whole other topic), they bring a rich vibrant culture (my development is about half-Hispanic). I just wish that one didn't have to feel as if one were in a foreign country when I go down to Miami-Dade county.
1. Do you believe that Spanish-speaking populations are resisting assimilation (as Huntington suggests)?
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
I think the division between the haves and the have nots, which expresses itself in racial conflict often, will become more exagerated. As far as assimilating and learning the mother tongue I think simply out of self-interest immigrants assimilate to the degree necessary to survive. If they want to retain distinct cultural elements, as long as they don't violate our laws I think that is healthy and enriching for us all. Hey, I love pad thai.
The down size of immigration, which no one wants to talk about, is population growth, steadily chewing up our resources and depleting all of us in the long run. What do you think is one of the main reasons hispanics want to immigrate here? In most of their countries, Mexico included, their population to resource balance is out of whack. If they were all solid citizens and hard workers it wouldn't change that basic problem.
I'd like to tie immigration to emigration. The number of immigrants in should be determined by the number of emigrants out. That brings some sanity and control to the process. It may mess with our economy for a while but we can adapt. We are not an endless cornucopia and we ignore that fact at our peril.
2. Will the divisions between Latinos and Anglos replace the division between blacks and whites as the greatest racial schism in America?
I think the division between the haves and the have nots, which expresses itself in racial conflict often, will become more exagerated. As far as assimilating and learning the mother tongue I think simply out of self-interest immigrants assimilate to the degree necessary to survive. If they want to retain distinct cultural elements, as long as they don't violate our laws I think that is healthy and enriching for us all. Hey, I love pad thai.
The down size of immigration, which no one wants to talk about, is population growth, steadily chewing up our resources and depleting all of us in the long run. What do you think is one of the main reasons hispanics want to immigrate here? In most of their countries, Mexico included, their population to resource balance is out of whack. If they were all solid citizens and hard workers it wouldn't change that basic problem.
I'd like to tie immigration to emigration. The number of immigrants in should be determined by the number of emigrants out. That brings some sanity and control to the process. It may mess with our economy for a while but we can adapt. We are not an endless cornucopia and we ignore that fact at our peril.
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