Earlier today, John Kerry said during a campaign speech that, "Dick Cheney came out from an undisclosed location to attack me" (on his tax plan). This was an obvious reference to the Vice President's actions on 9/11 when, for the protection of the US Constitutional succession of power he was moved by the Secret Service to what was announced as "an undisclosed location".

This troubles me. A candidate for President making light of the need to to protect and preserve the United States Constitution? Making a joke about doing that? That's not good, not good at all. It bothers me that he would make a joke concerning that horrible day day at all. Perhaps others feel differently, so I'll raise for debate the following question......

Is John Kerry's reference to the actions of the Vice President on 9/11 appropriate? Even in jest?

Dick Cheney's "undisclosed location" has become the butt of talk shows etc for over 3 years- totally appropriate- GW and his ilk have been hiding from real duties thier whole life- it deserves to be pointed out.

My first real laugh following 911 was a Cheney joke! I am not quite sure where we heard the first one but my hubby and I bantered back and forth for a half and hour after it. We started a where's Waldo parody, he he heee. A sense of humor is a beautiful thing and has gotten me through some of the worst experiences of my life. Nope don't have a problem with it, I only wish I had heard it.

Hmm, I know where this is going...

Those dang liberals were faulting Bush on a joke he told about WMD and now Kerry has told one which relates to 9/11... what will they do?

The difference here is that Kerry was making fun of the vice president and not 9/11. Most people probably didn't even catch that reference because it is so subtle. This is also as CruisingRam said an old and tired joke. Not the same ballpark here.

But, I'm sure that in the pages to follow all the conservatives and Bush supporters in the house are going to accuse me of having a double standard... such is life.

As a declared Republican and a slight conservative, I will go on record saying that just as I had no problem with Bush's WMD jokes, I have no problem with Kerry's 9/11 jokes. Heck, I don't have a problem with alleged jokes Kerry made in 1988 about assasinations of Presidents.

Comedy is indeed a beatiful thing people, as piper mentioned in a previous post. Sometimes it's just what this country needs to lighten up. piper

The difference here, Cube Jockey, is that millions of people took serious offense at the president making light of the lie which got us embroiled in the illegal invasion of Iraq. This thread strikes me as a lampoon of those peoples' genuine sense of outrage. I somehow doubt that Aquilla is truly troubled by Kerry's reference to Cheney - and suspect that this thread would be more appropriate in the Casual Conversation forum.

One could also ask if it's appropriate for anyone to make light of "that horrible day", especially if it's just a satiric attempt to score partisan points.

Forgive me, Aquilla, if I'm doing you an injustice here, but this looks to me like someone grasping at straws. If you really do feel that Kerry was mocking the Constitution and are suffering emotional distress as a result, you might want to make a somewhat stronger case. If all else fails, you should just make it as widely known as possible that, because of this heinous jest at the expense of the succession of power issue, you are going to refuse to vote for the guy. That should work.

Considering that this is one of the most secretive administrations (e.g., Cheney refusing to disclose who attended the Energy meetings, that Condi can't testify under oath but can go on virtually every t.v. talk show to attempt to discredit Clarke, no one has been forthcoming about outing Wilson's CIA analyst wife as payback, Cheney rubbing elbows with Scalia and Scalia refusing to recuse himself, ad nauseum), Cheney's "undisclosed location" jokes are indeed fair game.

How many people have lost their lives in order for Dick Cheney to be in an "undisclosed location" as compared to those who have lost their lives invading Iraq to find those WMDs? To my knowledge, none. And it wasn't just around 9/11/2001 that this happened. It has gone on for many, many moons following the attacks. And it makes it look like Cheney is actually the one surreptitiously running the country while the figurehead holds court.

But if you think it's in poor taste, fine.

Yes, it's appropriate. When you compare it to the president pretending to look for WMDs under his podium, it's more than appropriate. Especially when you consider that Kerry's joke hasn't led to any deaths of combat personnel. What makes Bush's joke worse is the fact that he is making light of a key reasn why we went to war, and have asked the ultimate sacrifice from some of our soldiers, for a reason that has yet to become clear.

Jeez Aqulla! I saw the speech and he didn't even smile let alone laugh! So where was the humor? I know I'll get flamed for this but where was the self-deprecation in his statement?

I can tell you one thing and it's only opinion. If this election is decided on personality and likability, Kerry loses two to one! I've thought about this long and hard and the guy comes across as a pontificating corpse to me! Heck, in '92 I really liked Clinton but I hated his philosophy! Maybe the Dems like Kerry's philosophy (if he has one) but don't like the person!

If his intent is attack politics, without consideration for facts, which I think it is, then sure it's appropriate! Just let the votes fall where they will!

Oh geez, Aquilla, are you seriously asking this?

The only "obvious" thing about your question is that you are comparing apples with oranges. Dick Cheney is in "undisclosed locations" ALL THE TIME since 9/11 and only comes out to speak at fundraisers before conservative groups or to go on talk shows hosted by right-wing Oxycontin addicts.

What's the theory here? "Everybody else does it, so Kerry's bad taste excuses Bush's bad taste."

You are grasping for straws here Aquilla. Kerry's remarks are in no way, shape or form equal to Bush's gaffe about not finding the WMD's.

So Nighttimer, are we to assume from this statement that you think that Kerry's statement was in bad taste?

Actually, offwind what you may assume is that I don't think Kerry's crack about Cheney in any way reaches the level of bad taste that Bush's joking about not finding the weapons of mass destruction achieved.

If Kerry said anything that could have been considered outside the lines of what's fair in a political fight, it might be what he said Sunday at a predominantly black church:

``The Scriptures say: `What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?''' Mr. Kerry said in a sermonlike speech at the New Northside Missionary Baptist Church. ``When we look at what is happening in America today, where are the works of compassion?''

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/28/politics...ign/29KERR.html

Now WHO could the Senator be talking about whose religious faith is a matter of record and has trumpeted how "compassionate" he is?

If it rhymes with "push" you're getting warmer.

Kerry's comments are fine, as Bush's were. Perhaps off color to a certain group, I guess.

The real story here: John Kerry told a joke? I need to find the video of this one.

Not a single undecided voter gives a darn about the jokes Kerry or Bush make. They are kind of more concerned about issues that effect them.

Hugo....your sentiments are probably the wisest of any response!


Since John Kerry is not a stellar joke teller either, maybe his speech writers could flip-flop some of the wording in the jokes (link below) for Kerry to tell as Bush Jokes.



more Kerry jokes including some 911....

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bljohnkerryjokes.htm

Kerry made a joke about Dick Cheney and all of a sudden it's about 9/11?

Come on. That's twisting the debate before it even starts.

And it's supposed to be self-depricating humor when GWB plays around with his lack of justification for the invasion/occupation of Iraq?

Man. Don't know what to say. Guess it's time for guitar.

Now, that would have been funny at the Press Corps Dinner. Bush looking all over the Oval Office for that "undisclosed location", and his missing VP.

Seriously, this is such a non-issue compared to the Bush "joke". It's obvious that some on the right are really stretching to divert attention from the many gaffes made by this administration lately.

Appears this may not have been 'the wisest comment' after all.



Looks like the Commander in Chief offended his troops and possibly swayed a vote to the other side.

Comparing Kerry’s and Dubya’s jokes, I wouldn’t even call this apples and oranges, they’re both fruits. This is more like a 2x4 and marbles and would agree with NiteGuy’s comments.

John Kerry's 911 joke



Hey...you can't win them all whether it be in our branches of armed forces or the American people...or our foreign leaders. That's what freedom of choice is all about... I'm going to stick by my compliments on Hugo's sentiments...not to be swayed by a small number of dissenters.

Ahhhhh...no bad joke intended for my distinguished opponents!

I don't have a problem with him makin the cracks. Lol, who knows. He might have some first hand experience with it one day. I don't believe that the Constitution will crumble or be stained because some politician thinks he's a funny man.

On that note, the 'undisclosed location' jokes have been done more than Heidi Fleiss. It's at the point where as soon as I hear Jay Leno or Dave Letterman say the words Dick and Cheney in succession, my brain says:

*ALERT* 'UNDISCLOSED LOCATION JOKE APPROACHING *ALERT*

I mean, it's old. Period. John Kerry should stick to his day job... you know, the one where he goes into that big building and makes laws or somethin?

Reading through this thread and some of the responses to it reminds me of an old Tommy Roe song titled "Dizzy". It goes like this.....



Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm dating myself, but hey, the music in my "formative years" is a whole lot better than today's is.

I started this thread to see what the opinions would be from people about a comment Kerry made on the campaign trail that was obviously intended to be humorous. It was in direct response to the Bush WMD joke that has drawn so much ire from the ABB crowd, I wondered what their reaction would be. Would they attempt to "spin it"? Would they disavow the nexus between "undisclosed location" and the protection of Constitutional succession of power while at the same time drawing a nexus between WMD and the death of American soldiers in Iraq? Most interesting........

The problem is this nexus:

Cheney and 9/11.

That's all.

Are you saying you don't see a nexus there, AM?

Do you really think it's a stretch to connect this joke to what Cheney was doing on 9/11 after the attacks?

Just curious, because as others have pointed out, this joke has been so overdone on late night TV and elsewhere (as has the "Bush looking for WMDs" joke) that the "nexus" is pretty obvious.

The only connection with Cheney to 9/11 is that he was VP before, during, and after the event. To my knowledge, his going into hiding was not a cause of 9/11.

However, WMD was the primary factor in the decision to invade Iraq.

So the disconnect is in the title of this debate: Kerry's 9/11 joke. It was about Cheney, not 9/11.

Had Kerry joked about how many Saudi Arabians does it take to knock down the WTC, then I'd see the direct connection. But that did not happen.

The "joke" here is the inference that Cheney is a coward for going to an undisclosed location on 9/11. There is further inference that he continues to hide out, out of fear.

It's not particularly funny. That doesn't make it inappropriate, just not funny.

How else do you read John Kerry's comment? A snide political jab?

THAT was the inference?? Really?? And I didn't get that at all!

But what would you call a democratic VP who was always secluded in an undisclosed location except to come out for campaign appearances?

There's really no linkage. And Cheney hiding out doesn't have the same impact as sending 100,000+ troops into a foreign country because of WMDs that weren't there, now does it?

Cheney has made numerous public appearances over the last 2 years. Public statements for Vice President Richard Bruce Cheney The charge that he is "in hiding" is overblown.

This comment was a reference to Cheney's behavior on 9/11. The infererance is cowardice.

I don't get it!!

Yep, that fits. Just election year jabs at each other. Is Cheney a coward?

Don't know the man. He's always in hiding

Just kidding.

Ahh, Dizzy, can still remember this one at the skating rink.

The jokes regarding Cheeny’s absence predates the 9/11 event. Seldom a night goes by that I miss Leno, he was taking jabs at Cheeny, his health, and his where abouts way before 9/11.

The subject of Kerry’s joke didn’t cost a single life and at no time was the succession of power ever in danger. Today, four US civilians were attacked by grenades, burned alive and then strung over the Euphrates.

All in the name of WMD.