Full Version: Shia Uprising a Flop?
From the beggining of the spat with the militia of Iraq Cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, the hand-wringing has been audible. 
The Shia and Sunni are uniting aganst the occupation, we've lost the PR war. It Vietnam all over again etc.
So it might come as a shock to some that Sadr and his Mehdi Army aren't exactly popular with Iraqi Shia.
In today's news...
Iraqis Protest against Shi'ite Militia in Najaf
Sadr's militiamen fire in air to disperse demonstration in Najaf
None of this has occured in a vaccum of course...
No wide Shiite rally to Sadr's forces
Radical Cleric Is Unwanted by His Neighbors
and here's a interesting bit...
Shades of Saddam as Najaf bows to Sadr
So...
Are concerns over a wide Shia revolt overrated?
Is this the beggining of the end for Sadr and the Mehdi Army?
What does this means for Iraq's hopes for democracy and peace?
The Shia and Sunni are uniting aganst the occupation, we've lost the PR war. It Vietnam all over again etc.
So it might come as a shock to some that Sadr and his Mehdi Army aren't exactly popular with Iraqi Shia.
In today's news...
QUOTE
Hundreds of Iraqis marched in Najaf Tuesday calling on militant cleric Moqtada al-Sadr to withdraw his fighters from the Shi'ite holy city.
It was the biggest and most public display yet of mounting local exasperation with an uprising launched last month against the U.S. occupation and follows a U.S. crackdown on Sadr's Mehdi Army, which says it plans to open up new fronts in its war.[...]
The crowd in Najaf marched to the central shrine area of the city before dispersing peacefully. Some Sadr gunmen fired in the air toward the end of the march, but most demonstrators had dispersed by then, witnesses said.
The protest, organized by Sadr's political foes, followed a smaller one Monday and reflected increasing pressure from Shi'ite elders on Sadr to move his men out.
A bigger demonstration is planned for Friday, the Muslim day of prayer, said an official of a rival Shi'ite organization, the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq.
It was the biggest and most public display yet of mounting local exasperation with an uprising launched last month against the U.S. occupation and follows a U.S. crackdown on Sadr's Mehdi Army, which says it plans to open up new fronts in its war.[...]
The crowd in Najaf marched to the central shrine area of the city before dispersing peacefully. Some Sadr gunmen fired in the air toward the end of the march, but most demonstrators had dispersed by then, witnesses said.
The protest, organized by Sadr's political foes, followed a smaller one Monday and reflected increasing pressure from Shi'ite elders on Sadr to move his men out.
A bigger demonstration is planned for Friday, the Muslim day of prayer, said an official of a rival Shi'ite organization, the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq.
Iraqis Protest against Shi'ite Militia in Najaf
QUOTE
Dozens of followers of a main shiite party, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), were dispersed when the Mehdi Army fighters opened fire into the air, Muhsin Jawad told Xinhua.
The demonstration was staged following calls by other senior shiite religious leaders, Jawad said, adding that the marchers wereheading towards the sacred Imam Ali shrine when the Sadr's fighters opened fire.
The demonstration was staged following calls by other senior shiite religious leaders, Jawad said, adding that the marchers wereheading towards the sacred Imam Ali shrine when the Sadr's fighters opened fire.
Sadr's militiamen fire in air to disperse demonstration in Najaf
None of this has occured in a vaccum of course...
No wide Shiite rally to Sadr's forces
Radical Cleric Is Unwanted by His Neighbors
and here's a interesting bit...
QUOTE
Now, a year from Saddam’s fall, history seems at risk of repeating itself in Najaf, as once again, the will of the silent majority bends to that of the violent minority.
US troops massed outside the city have yet to carry out their threat to "capture or kill" Sadr in his barricaded hide-out in a local shrine, fearing a mass uprising if they do so. But there are plenty of locals who would be secretly overjoyed.
The whispered parallels between Saddam and Sadr, it seems, go well beyond sales of sycophantic merchandising.
"Nobody likes him here at all," said taxi driver Khalid Mishbeel, who waited until he was well out of town before speaking his mind.
"I earn my living taking pilgrims into Najaf, but since all this trouble here there have been hardly any coming here.
"Most people have no problem with the coalition - if you don’t hurt them, they don’t hurt you. But I tell you, people here are afraid of him, because he has all the men and all the guns, just like Saddam.
"If you complain about him, you will get his men coming round to your house to question you. That is why everybody puts his picture in their shops.
US troops massed outside the city have yet to carry out their threat to "capture or kill" Sadr in his barricaded hide-out in a local shrine, fearing a mass uprising if they do so. But there are plenty of locals who would be secretly overjoyed.
The whispered parallels between Saddam and Sadr, it seems, go well beyond sales of sycophantic merchandising.
"Nobody likes him here at all," said taxi driver Khalid Mishbeel, who waited until he was well out of town before speaking his mind.
"I earn my living taking pilgrims into Najaf, but since all this trouble here there have been hardly any coming here.
"Most people have no problem with the coalition - if you don’t hurt them, they don’t hurt you. But I tell you, people here are afraid of him, because he has all the men and all the guns, just like Saddam.
"If you complain about him, you will get his men coming round to your house to question you. That is why everybody puts his picture in their shops.
Shades of Saddam as Najaf bows to Sadr
So...
Are concerns over a wide Shia revolt overrated?
Is this the beggining of the end for Sadr and the Mehdi Army?
What does this means for Iraq's hopes for democracy and peace?
I think it is far too early to call the Shia uprising a flop.
While Sadr and his Mahdi forces remain a type of declared force of resistance against Americans determined to use violence against American personnel, allied personnel and symbols of those two forces, they are a sign of defying American forces and gaining prestige through violence.
The United States does not seem to have the will to go get Sadr and place him under arrest (but they did have the will to make out the warrant)
Sadr is making a power grab in the Shia community and he is a key test for the future of Iraq. Who will gain power in that country the peacemakers or power brokers.
The drum beat of a few trouble makers in a larger population is getting stale. Iraq is a growing problem and a growing number of Iraqis seem to be looking to those with the sword instead of the pen.
Maybe if we turned more fully to established Iraqi leaders instead of exiles, our brand name of government official would ring more true with the Iraqi people.
I think concerns of a wider Shia revolt are overrated or exaggerated at this time, but Sadder is a real threat to the woeful strategy of making a functioning model of democracy for the entire region in the divided country of Iraq.
And notice Sadder is still in Najaf. And if US forces grab him from Najaf who will Iraqi people blame for damage done to the holy city? Will they be cursing the name of Sadder or the United States?
While Sadr and his Mahdi forces remain a type of declared force of resistance against Americans determined to use violence against American personnel, allied personnel and symbols of those two forces, they are a sign of defying American forces and gaining prestige through violence.
The United States does not seem to have the will to go get Sadr and place him under arrest (but they did have the will to make out the warrant)
Sadr is making a power grab in the Shia community and he is a key test for the future of Iraq. Who will gain power in that country the peacemakers or power brokers.
The drum beat of a few trouble makers in a larger population is getting stale. Iraq is a growing problem and a growing number of Iraqis seem to be looking to those with the sword instead of the pen.
Maybe if we turned more fully to established Iraqi leaders instead of exiles, our brand name of government official would ring more true with the Iraqi people.
I think concerns of a wider Shia revolt are overrated or exaggerated at this time, but Sadder is a real threat to the woeful strategy of making a functioning model of democracy for the entire region in the divided country of Iraq.
And notice Sadder is still in Najaf. And if US forces grab him from Najaf who will Iraqi people blame for damage done to the holy city? Will they be cursing the name of Sadder or the United States?
QUOTE(turnea @ May 11 2004, 12:00 PM)
Are concerns over a wide Shia revolt overrated?
VERY overrated. He may have 10,000 "well trained" goons, but we have tanks and gunships and we are cleaning the flor up with his "milita".
QUOTE
Is this the beginning of the end for Sadr and the Mehdi Army?
Yes. Sadr has lost support because he is causing so much dispair for the people in Najaf with his "ruling with an iron fist" and "Death to the American Occupiers" attitiude. His rabble-rousing attitude has caused bombings and shootings in Najaf from US troops because of his troublesome army and instead of aggravating Iraqis against us, they are furious at him and blame him.
BTW: A sign that Sadr is losing it: He's calling for an end to the standoff
QUOTE(Eeyore @ May 11 2004, 01:49 PM)
And notice Sadder is still in Najaf. And if US forces grab him from Najaf who will Iraqi people blame for damage done to the holy city? Will they be cursing the name of Sadder or the United States?
Well let's start with this. The important thing about opinion turning more and more against Sadr in Najaf is that the US likely won't have to...
His men are already being knocked off by disgruntled Iraqis
QUOTE(Time @ 5/10/2004, Vol. 163 Issue 19, p49, 2/3p, 1c)
The dark blue Volvo sped toward the guard post near Najaf's Safi al-Safa shrine just as the muezzin began his evening call to prayers. Inside the car, three gunmen prepared to fire. Their targets were members of the Mahdi Army, a band of militants loyal to the firebrand Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who has holed up in Najaf for the past month to avoid capture by the 2,500 U.S. soldiers surrounding the city. As the Volvo neared the tiny brick-and-reed building, a gunman in the car opened up with his AK-47, hitting one of al-Sadr's men. Mahdi Army members say they ran the Volvo down, killing one of the three gunmen and capturing the remaining two. But other witnesses say the car disappeared into the night, its occupants unharmed. Either way, it was a blow for al-Sadr's army, which last month staged dramatic uprisings against coalition forces in several cities.[...] Locals say the gunmen in the Volvo came from a new group calling itself the Thulfiqar Army, seemingly named for a famed two-pronged sword that in Shi'ite tradition was used by Imam Ali, the martyred son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad. Two weeks ago, the group began distributing leaflets ordering al-Sadr to leave Najaf immediately or face death.
It is by all accounts a small group, but indicative of what Sadr is facing, and it ain't support for his struggle against the occupiers.
QUOTE(Time @ 5/10/2004, Vol. 163 Issue 19, p49, 2/3p, 1c)
Plenty of people have an interest in seeing al-Sadr and his ragtag army cut down. The cleric has little widespread support among mainstream Shi'ites. But al-Sadr's rise has alarmed senior Shi'ite clerics, who view him as an upstart demagogue. Al-Sadr's troops have regularly clashed with the more powerful Shi'ite militia known as the Badr Brigade.[...]Many residents of Najaf have tired of al-Sadr and his militia's thuggish ways. Out of earshot of Mahdi Army members, locals complain that al-Sadr's men raid shops for supplies, confiscate mobile telephones and arrest people on suspicion of spying. A pro-al-Sadr newspaper ran a picture last week of a man hanged by al-Sadr followers for "spying." Waving the photo, Muntadhar al-Khazali, 18, an al-Sadr loyalist, issued a threat to others: "Anyone who works against us, this will be their fate. We will never let Muqtada al-Sadr die. If America is such a great country, why doesn't it come and get him?" Perhaps because there's a reasonable chance that someone else will first.
and even if Sadr isn't forced out by other Iraqis, it certainly has made him more diplomatic and open to suggestions of an exit.
QUOTE(Eeyore)
Sadr is making a power grab in the Shia community and he is a key test for the future of Iraq. Who will gain power in that country the peacemakers or power brokers.
Trick question
power brokers always gain power, some are simply more peaceful than others, in this case the less peaceful (Sadr) seems to be losing badly.QUOTE(Eeyore)
I think it is far too early to call the Shia uprising a flop.
While Sadr and his Mahdi forces remain a type of declared force of resistance against Americans determined to use violence against American personnel, allied personnel and symbols of those two forces, they are a sign of defying American forces and gaining prestige through violence.
While Sadr and his Mahdi forces remain a type of declared force of resistance against Americans determined to use violence against American personnel, allied personnel and symbols of those two forces, they are a sign of defying American forces and gaining prestige through violence.
1. How long will they remain such at this rate?
2. If they are not a popular symbols (and they are not) then it really doesn't matter as much as many seem to think.
I think the press was silly to call this a "Shia uprising" in the first place. Recognize it for what it is Sadr's goons on the war path. An isolated but violent cleric beating his chest while the vast majority of the population just wishes he would shut up.
QUOTE(Eeyore)
The drum beat of a few trouble makers in a larger population is getting stale.
It may be well tried, but that's because it's true.
Sadr's lack of popularity it plan to see, and even that support is dropping.
QUOTE(turnea @ May 12 2004, 11:35 AM)
His men are already being knocked off by disgruntled Iraqis
It is by all accounts a small group, but indicative of what Sadr is facing, and it ain't support for his struggle against the occupiers.
QUOTE(Time @ 5/10/2004, Vol. 163 Issue 19, p49, 2/3p, 1c)
The dark blue Volvo sped toward the guard post near Najaf's Safi al-Safa shrine just as the muezzin began his evening call to prayers. Inside the car, three gunmen prepared to fire. Their targets were members of the Mahdi Army, a band of militants loyal to the firebrand Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who has holed up in Najaf for the past month to avoid capture by the 2,500 U.S. soldiers surrounding the city. As the Volvo neared the tiny brick-and-reed building, a gunman in the car opened up with his AK-47, hitting one of al-Sadr's men. Mahdi Army members say they ran the Volvo down, killing one of the three gunmen and capturing the remaining two. But other witnesses say the car disappeared into the night, its occupants unharmed. Either way, it was a blow for al-Sadr's army, which last month staged dramatic uprisings against coalition forces in several cities.[...] Locals say the gunmen in the Volvo came from a new group calling itself the Thulfiqar Army, seemingly named for a famed two-pronged sword that in Shi'ite tradition was used by Imam Ali, the martyred son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad. Two weeks ago, the group began distributing leaflets ordering al-Sadr to leave Najaf immediately or face death.
It is by all accounts a small group, but indicative of what Sadr is facing, and it ain't support for his struggle against the occupiers.
Not exactly the type of response from his temper tantrums that he was hoping for obviously!
He was hoping for a nationwide uprising and what does he really get? Iraqis protesting against HIM!
Sadr has crippled the economy of Najaf because of his rabble rousing. I read an article where Iraqis are furious because the pilgrims that would normally be flowing into Najaf and buying stuff from vendors are staying away and is hurting Iraqis because of this violence
QUOTE(turnea @ May 11 2004, 12:00 PM)
Are concerns over a wide Shia revolt overrated?
Is this the beggining of the end for Sadr and the Mehdi Army?
What does this means for Iraq's hopes for democracy and peace?
The guy stages revolts in more than one major city and a few protesters show up and that proves that he's irrelevant or on the decline? For one, the battle rages on throughout many cities. If he didn't have the tacit support of even half of the people, they would expel him themselves or give him up through giving us his whereabouts. Since we know he's in Najaf and we can't get a hold of him, it's quite telling how this guy with "little" support is able to keep a sophisticated force from capturing him-he's all but daring us to invade his little mosque. Just look at the scene-a guy in robes and a turban in a mosque can't be touched by thousands of troops with hi-tech gear and equipment. Second, he's a man of considerable influence-yes, the other clerics probably resent his power and want him to just knock it off. But rather than demand that he give up his army which he says teh Shia higher clerics have the authority to do, the Shia leadership prefers to negotiate than demand Al-Sadr give up his militia. They don't love him, but we aren't much of a lovable option for them either.
Well, seeing how this small group has managed to inflict such casualties on the US Army in one month im glad it isnt a full shia uprising. I dont think the point for a general uprising has come yet but there is no doubt its getting closer all the time. If they release or leak the photos of soldiers abusing iraqi women, we just might get it.
QUOTE(nebraska29 @ May 13 2004, 06:41 AM)
The guy stages revolts in more than one major city and a few protesters show up and that proves that he's irrelevant or on the decline?
On the decline and soon to be irrelevant, correct!
...but you'll note that only two of my six sourcces have dealt with the protests. Three more establish that Sadr is deeply unpopular among mainstrean Shia, especially in Najaf where he is hiding.
A fourth notes that some Iraqis are killing Sadr's men in retaliation.
Sadr is not popular and he's getting less popular by the minute, that's would be called a decline.
QUOTE(nebraska29)
If he didn't have the tacit support of even half of the people, they would expel him themselves or give him up through giving us his whereabouts.
An interesting assumption, but make no mistake that's all it is.
My links already establish he doesn't have the support of half the people.
The problem is he has one of two major Iraqi Shiite militias. As my links note, the reason he keeps control is because he has the guns. They can't expel him themselves (unless Sistani finally has enough talk and sends out the Badr brigade in full)...
and, of course, we already know his wherabouts. We just don't want to invade and damage the more important holy sites when it isn't necessary....
QUOTE(nebraska29)
But rather than demand that he give up his army which he says teh Shia higher clerics have the authority to do, the Shia leadership prefers to negotiate than demand Al-Sadr give up his militia.
Perhaps because they aren't dumb enough to believe he'd do it. That would mean giving himself up to the Americans (since he would have no one to defend him) and I seriously doubt that is his plan.
The piece in the Scotsman spells thing out, if the choice is Sadr vs. the Americans, the residents of Najaf preferred the Americans...
QUOTE(santasdad)
I dont think the point for a general uprising has come yet but there is no doubt its getting closer all the time. If they release or leak the photos of soldiers abusing iraqi women, we just might get it.
That's funny, I think there is considerable doubt due to the lack of evidence and all...
QUOTE(santasdad @ May 13 2004, 07:59 AM)
If they release or leak the photos of soldiers abusing iraqi women, we just might get it.
Those were fake: Article
QUOTE
Graphic photos appearing on Arabic websites of U.S. servicemen raping and sexually abusing Iraqi women were actually taken from American and Hungarian pornography sites.
Albasrah.net and a Tunisian website produced in France by Committee for the Defense of Saddam Hussein [Comité de Défonce de Saddam Hussein En Tunisie], posted not only the recently broadcast photos of U.S. troops abusing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners but additional ones of alleged group rape of women by American soldiers, some who are depicted holding rifles against their victims' heads.
The Tunisian site described the photos as the "unedited" versions of actual events and Albasrah ran the photos under the heading "The Abu Ghraib Prison Photos," indicating they had received the photos via e-mail.
A WND investigation has revealed that most of the photos are taken from the American pornographic website "Iraq Babes," and the Hungarian site, "Sex in War," which is linked to by the American site. Both websites are linked to by violent pornography sites and both describe Iraqi women -- played by "actresses" -- in vulgar terms.
Albasrah.net and a Tunisian website produced in France by Committee for the Defense of Saddam Hussein [Comité de Défonce de Saddam Hussein En Tunisie], posted not only the recently broadcast photos of U.S. troops abusing and humiliating Iraqi prisoners but additional ones of alleged group rape of women by American soldiers, some who are depicted holding rifles against their victims' heads.
The Tunisian site described the photos as the "unedited" versions of actual events and Albasrah ran the photos under the heading "The Abu Ghraib Prison Photos," indicating they had received the photos via e-mail.
A WND investigation has revealed that most of the photos are taken from the American pornographic website "Iraq Babes," and the Hungarian site, "Sex in War," which is linked to by the American site. Both websites are linked to by violent pornography sites and both describe Iraqi women -- played by "actresses" -- in vulgar terms.
So i guess there is nothing to worry about really
I don't think concerns were overrated. One of the problems we've had since the aircraft carrier stunt is diminishing the significance of events or ignoring them.
I hope this is the last we hear from the pocky cleric's militia and I'm glad it looks like Iraqis are making a stand. I'm also glad the pics turned out to be fake. Making them at a time like this was incredibly irresponsible.
I hope this is the last we hear from the pocky cleric's militia and I'm glad it looks like Iraqis are making a stand. I'm also glad the pics turned out to be fake. Making them at a time like this was incredibly irresponsible.
QUOTE(Lesly @ May 13 2004, 05:10 PM)
I don't think concerns were overrated. One of the problems we've had since the aircraft carrier stunt is diminishing the significance of events or ignoring them.
Possibly. Though I'd have to say that a bigger problem was overestimating which can be deadly in it's own way.
Namely since it is highly unlikely we will lose this conflict militarily it is important not to give the public the impression that this is a likely option.
Making to much of an incident cuts into a critical components for Iraq's hopes for democracy, the will of the American people.
Sadr's militias actions do not constitute a Shia uprising, just a doomed action of a group of misguided individuals.
QUOTE
Though I'd have to say that a bigger problem was overestimating which can be deadly in it's own way. Namely since it is highly unlikely we will lose this conflict militarily it is important not to give the public the impression that this is a likely option. Making to much of an incident cuts into a critical components for Iraq's hopes for democracy, the will of the American people. Sadr's militias actions do not constitute a Shia uprising, just a doomed action of a group of misguided individuals.
-- turnea
-- turnea
Overestimating in Sadr's case? I don't have to like his militia or the way they conduct themselves to say that for a ragtag bunch they put up a decent resistance with rooftop snipers and subterfuge to smuggle supplies. The potential for an uprising shouldn't go without examination either. Bad shots or not, as one of our officers put it, April was the deadliest month for our troops. That's newsworthy, regardless of which side is making the news.
Public opinion on foreign policy should not direct coverage. I'd rather hear the worst of it now than be blindsided later. In this respect the media did its job.
QUOTE(Lesly @ May 13 2004, 10:07 PM)
Overestimating in Sadr's case? I don't have to like his militia or the way they conduct themselves to say that for a ragtag bunch they put up a decent resistance with rooftop snipers and subterfuge to smuggle supplies. The potential for an uprising shouldn't go without examination either. Bad shots or not, as one of our officers put it, April was the deadliest month for our troops. That's newsworthy, regardless of which side is making the news.
Skimming through the April casualties, it seems most of them occured in the Sunni Triangle (Baghdad, Al Anbar, and Ramadi are the three big ones). That's likely not Sadr's doing. I would say the Fallujah situation is (or was) much more to blame.
From what coverage I'm getting, it looks like Sadr's men are being knocked over right and left. Najaf is his last stronghold. Inroads are being made there, and the residents seem just about ready to evict the unwelcome visitor. He has no Baghdad base to return to (they bombed it).
Yes, I'd say overestimating was exactly what the press did. The reason this has dragged out so long is because of his sensitive position, now that's turning into a liability.
QUOTE(Lesly)
Public opinion on foreign policy should not direct coverage. I'd rather hear the worst of it now than be blindsided later. In this respect the media did its job.
I agree, accuracy and perspective are the goals. I just point out that when these goals are not met, the effect is distorted public opinion. Worst-case scenario reporting is just as misleading as best-case...
Edited to add:
April Iraq deaths
I think recent events in the fight against Sadr have borne out my theory. Namely that the antipathy towards Sadr among Shiites is so high, that he can never be viable symbol of widespread rebellion.
Sistani Calls for Shiites to Stay Away From Najaf
There has been minor unrest over damage to some of the holiest Shia shrines, but the public has largely kept quiet.
So much for rebellion.
QUOTE
So far, Shiite religious leaders who want Sadr removed have complained little about the American tactics.[...]The chronic violence has exasperated Najaf residents. "From the first day of the crisis, our business stopped. We depend on tourists and now there are none," said Hadi Basheer, 50, a souvenir peddler.
Taxi driver Ali Hussein, 28, accused Sadr's militia of harboring sympathizers of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and common criminals.
"I want the Americans to solve this, because the Mahdi Army is growing in power," he said.
Taxi driver Ali Hussein, 28, accused Sadr's militia of harboring sympathizers of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and common criminals.
"I want the Americans to solve this, because the Mahdi Army is growing in power," he said.
Sistani Calls for Shiites to Stay Away From Najaf
There has been minor unrest over damage to some of the holiest Shia shrines, but the public has largely kept quiet.
So much for rebellion.
QUOTE(turnea @ May 13 2004, 11:28 PM)
From what coverage I'm getting, it looks like Sadr's men are being knocked over right and left. Najaf is his last stronghold. Inroads are being made there, and the residents seem just about ready to evict the unwelcome visitor. He has no Baghdad base to return to (they bombed it).
Actually, the only strongholds Sadr has is Najaf, Kuf (which is iffy) and Karbala which is iffy too. The US has wiped the floor with Sadr's goons, proving that this "uprising" is a total flop because Sadr's goons are no match for the American military might
QUOTE
On the decline and soon to be irrelevant, correct!
The idea that these attacks are something akin to the battle of the bulge, a last-ditch gasp of resistance is just illogical. I'm amazed at how this administration can claim that an enemy on the offensive is one that is lying dazed on it's back.
QUOTE
Three more establish that Sadr is deeply unpopular among mainstrean Shia, especially in Najaf where he is hiding.
Polls about Iraq have to be taken with a grain of salt. For every one that says Al-Sadr is hated, there are others that say he has grown in popularity vs. the U.S. among the minds of Iraqis.
QUOTE
A fourth notes that some Iraqis are killing Sadr's men in retaliation.
Indeed, that is the case. Iraq has never been an easy area to control, not even the Umayyad muslim rulers could control it with great ease. It's an unpredictable area that no one can seem to overcome except through brute force.
QUOTE
Sadr is not popular and he's getting less popular by the minute, that's would be called a decline.
I will reference my link from above on this one. Most notably:
QUOTE
An Iraqi poll to be released next week shows a surge in the popularity of Moqtada al-Sadr, the radical young Shia cleric fighting coalition forces, and suggests nearly nine out of 10 Iraqis see US troops as occupiers and not liberators or peacekeepers.
The poll was conducted by the one-year-old Iraq Center for Research and Strategic Studies, which is considered reliable enough for the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority to have submitted questions to be included in the study.
The poll was conducted by the one-year-old Iraq Center for Research and Strategic Studies, which is considered reliable enough for the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority to have submitted questions to be included in the study.
QUOTE(nebraska29 @ May 20 2004, 09:27 PM)
QUOTE
On the decline and soon to be irrelevant, correct!
The idea that these attacks are something akin to the battle of the bulge, a last-ditch gasp of resistance is just illogical. I'm amazed at how this administration can claim that an enemy on the offensive is one that is lying dazed on it's back.
QUOTE
Three more establish that Sadr is deeply unpopular among mainstrean Shia, especially in Najaf where he is hiding.
Polls about Iraq have to be taken with a grain of salt. For every one that says Al-Sadr is hated, there are others that say he has grown in popularity vs. the U.S. among the minds of Iraqis.
Really?
So then the why are Iraqis protesting over Sadr's presense in Najaf?
QUOTE
Iraqi protesters in the holy city of Najaf have called on rebel Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr's Mehdi Army to leave.
He's causing trouble and ruing the economy and the infrastructure of Najaf by setting up shop.
QUOTE(GoAmerica @ May 21 2004, 11:54 AM)
We have protests here in America about Bush. Does that make him unpopular?? I don't deny that Al-Sadr has detractors, but with the number of engagements that his forces are making, and the above cited poll, it's a mistake to just try and toss him into the dustbin of history.
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